• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Xbox One - Help Spread the Word

B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Nutter said:
Were you people this upset about Steam not letting you rent, lend, sell "your" games?
Click to expand...

We wouldn't be upset if Microsoft went digital-only like Steam. 'No used games' is inherent to digital titles.

It's the artificially crippling of physical media that is the evil here... and the fact that a 24hr check in is enforced to make it happen.
 
Proelite

Proelite

Member
Router said:
I'm part of the problem because I'm not jumping up and down about it? Thats a pretty stupid way of looking at things.
Click to expand...

If its making this poster that mad that i am buying one maybe I should buy ten. One each for all my friends who has shoddy Internet.
 
T

timmaysmittay

Member
dmg04 said:
Question; Are developers defending these policies by creating games for said console?

Looks like you folks may need to boycott more than one company.

What about TurtleBeach and all of those other headset companies making headphones specifically for the new Xbox jack? They're supporting that system and the policies. Looks like they're in the shit too. Yeah?
Click to expand...

I will boycott the products that they release for the system because I won't be owning the system, people didn't buy enough Wii U copies of FIFA so now they won't get another one.

Do you have a point?
 
8

8byte

Banned
So...I'm gonna post this again, because I think I bring up valid points about the industry, but it's also a wall of text. Last time I post it, I promise. Sorry if it's frowned upon, I can remove it if so.

With the recent reveal of the Xbox One's privacy features, licencing model, and the looming information pending from Sony, it is important we ask ourselves how we got here. What happened with our beloved industry that caused us to end up at this point. Was it the surge in used game sales, cutting publishers and developers out of the picture? Was it the uptake in piracy as internet speeds and technology became readily available. If we are now at the point where basic consumer rights of ownership are being infringed on and bent, then there clearly must have been a catalyst. If we have pushed, then this must be the push back, and it is important to know where it came from.

Now, outside of used games, piracy, or any other factors, I want to look to development studios, publishers, and metacritic first. All three of these are largely responsible for their own successes or failures. When metacritic came to fruition and rose as an ever important piece of our industry, publishers took note. Consequently, they began to build their publishing deals with stipulations and conditions pertaining to metacritic scores. This puts unnecessary pressure on a development studio to do one of two things:

1) Take the big risk. Keep true to your vision, create your game, and do the best you can. Brave the uncharted waters with new angles on classic mechanics and see if it takes off.

2) Chase the industry fads. Find what's popular, focus test, build your game by the numbers, and check the boxes. Hopefully this will yield a decent metacritic score, which could translate into bonuses, continued investments into your IP, and hopefully sales.

Now, the problem with the first scenario is how risky it is. Publishers are investing tens, possibly hundreds of millions of dollars into your project. If you fail, you fail HARD, and it could really put a stain on your studio. Likewise, with a new IP, or new idea, you'll need great marketing. Word of mouth is fantastic, but as we've seen with Sony titles, that slow upstart in sales with just word of mouth can be extremely daunting. How do you balance your risks with your marketing budget, and your perception of your title? If things start out negatively for your game, how do you win that back? Can you abandon ship? It's a very risky game to play.

With the second scenario, in all instances you're more than likely going to end up with something that is a solid product, but may not be stand out from the crowd. Looking at titles like Army of Two, Medal of Honor, Dantes Inferno, and many others...this is often the case. Your product can be solid, but without marketing, pizzazz, and something unique, you're ultimately just going to "get by" or worse.

The big issue I have here is that a lot of titles are released, marketed, and abandoned like clock work. Publishers take small calculated risks, and then blame the consumer when the titles fail, yet hold these studios to near impossible standards due to an aggregate website. No studio truly wants the pressure of fearing a 75 as a score, or being shut down / sold because their game didn't meet targets. In addition to this, publishers are entirely too cozy with the enthusiast media. Showering them with gifts, review copies, press invites, etc. While I understand the importance of providing your product to outlets to spread the word, it is also worth noting that this skews the "scale" of their ratings. For the last 10 to 15 years, most games are judged on a scale from 7-10, while these outlets claim their scale is from 1-10. In all likelihood, this is because publisher relations are important to the survival of the enthusiast press, thus smaller passable games are viewed as "terrible" because they're at the bottom of the normally used scale...7.

What about budgets? How are publsihers approaching their approval process or projects? With so many games green-lit annually, and so few being "breakout hits", it is hard to imagine how a publisher comes to the conclusion that they should publish a title, but more importantly, that they should publish it and sell it for $60. I can name probably one or two dozen titles from last year that had absolutely no reason to be $60, as that effectively puts them in competition with the best of the best, and immediately makes them invisible to the knowledgeable consumer. Gamers aren't exploring box arts, more importantly, neither are casual gamers. They're reading Game Informer magazine, looking to see what has the most marketing in their local GameStop, and talking to the clerks behind the counter to be fed whatever opinionated nonsense they can. Your price tag is the barrier. If the clerk says "this game is good, but this game is also good" and they both share the same price tag, but one is plastered all over the walls of the store...what do you think they're gonna buy?

Frankly, the industry has backed itself into a corner with poor practices, lack of elasticity, and an absence of focus. Unfortunately, this has been pushed over to us, the consumer. We are now expected to bite the bullet, to pick up the slack for Publishers, so they can continue to do what they do: All of the wrong things. Used game sales aren't the problem. Piracy isn't the problem. If Dead Space 3 needed to sell 5 million copies to break even / justify it's existence as a franchise, then no amount of cutting used sales or removing piracy was going to make that game wildly successful, nor was it going to increase the profit margins for it. EA, you did it wrong. "AAA" games are the problem. Frankly, we need MORE b-tier titles at $19.99-$39.99. Those titles have small budgets, small expectations, and bigger profit margins (as those price ranges hit a wider audience). We need less investment into super bowl ads, prime time commercials, or UFC ring space. We're in an age of always connected devices. Hulu, Amazon, Google, even the consoles themselves...the advertising spaces are there, where gamers see them. We need to break our relationships with the enthusiast press. Stop coddling them, and stop letting them hold you by the balls. You want to remove the problems with metacritic? Start putting together better (and more) demos that show off your product in new and meaningful ways. Don't sell us on trailers with cheesy rock / dubstep tracks and quick cuts of what your game looks like, let us REALLY see the game.

Publishers would have you believe that these policies will result in "cheaper games" and "savings for us all" much like Steam. The key difference here, however, is that Steam is an all digital platform, for the most part, with few physical releases. They've worked out some incredible developer relationships, and removed publishers from the equation. Why are we, the consumer, expected to take these ideas at face value? Are they nothing more than empty promises? If publishers haven't felt the need to pass the savings on to us at this point in the generation, when development costs are falling, as middle ware and engine optimization is at its peak...why are we to believe that a new generation, with new R&D, new engines, bigger development teams...all of these things, and this is going to save us money? I'm sorry, but I just don't buy it. You're in it for money, not good will. Try investing your money better, managing your studios, teams, and projects better. Maybe then, you'll make more money, and it'll be easier to pass the savings down. Until then, this is all just hot air.

I fear, however, that these thoughts are all too late for us. The industry has moved, and we as consumers won't be able to shift it back. This is where things are going. Microsoft, nor Sony, felt the need to step up to publishers and tell them "No, you need to get your act together". Instead, they bowed to their pressure, as one or the other didn't want to be without those important multiplatform games, becoming another Nintendo (whom I love). This is unacceptable, as the publishers, in effect, have held them, and us by consequence, for ransom. Our rights are being held over us, and for what? So publishers can take more risks? As unfortunate as it sounds, this is a capitalist economy. If your products aren't performing to standard and your studio faces closure, you probably suffered some deal of mismanagement, be it on the end of the publisher or developer. Removing used game sales, trades, or rentals from the equation (or hampering ones ability to do so at will, easily and without restriction) will not save this industry. It will not make things easier. You will still suffer the same mismanagement, you will still be guessing, trying to nail the movement and evolution of gamers tastes and the industry. That is the nature of the beast.

So, publishers, don't hold us by the throats and tell us this is for our own good. We know that's a crock of shit. This is for YOUR own good, but ultimately, you're too short sighted to be any wiser. You will continue to eat at your own tail, until you've consumed yourself, and we won't be around anymore to bail you out, it'll be too late. You can fix the symptoms all you want with your demands for these policies and infrastructures, but until you fix the cause, you'll still end up in ultimately the same position. Declining stock value, studio closures, and shitty metacritic scores.
Click to expand...
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
The one awesome thing to come from all this are the shills and their bannings.

Anyway, I did my part. I first saw the image posted by AznKnight on Twitter and retweeted it. Then posted it to Facebook and to Tumblr with a bunch of gaming related hashtags. I'll keep telling people in person at work and my friends. And of course, continue posting about it on social media networks.
 
S

SneakyStephan

Banned
Amir0x said:
Hahaha, it is remarkable. Simply remarkable how daft the viral crew is. They're all but wearing their pins in flaming lettering on their vests lol
Click to expand...

GillianSeed79 said:
Can you explain this thread you made back in 2012:

www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462068

The title of which is:looks like i may be working on Xbox 720
Click to expand...

This thread reminds me of this one:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468091

I wonder what the ratio of simply selfish 'as long as I get mine' posters and viral marketers and conflicts of interests is in this thread.

I also I'm curious how long proelite is going to have his 'tldr' reply go unnoticed by the higher powers on gaf.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Proelite said:
Didn't read. Still buying Xbox day one.
Click to expand...

image.php
 
N

Nash20

Banned
All these supposed violations of "consumer rights" are a direct result of the move to an all digital future.

Physical media in this day and age is wasteful and pointless. Imagine how the Iphone would have done if people had to put in a new cartridge for each individual app?

Sony would be smart to get on board and embrace it now, the alternative is getting steamrolled like they did by xbox live and the whole online play thing.
 
R

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
Amir0x said:
I'm 100% on board for any boycott. We'll cross this bridge with Sony as well if they go down this road.

Microsoft has now come out in the open and stood behind what we all feared. There's no confusion left but in the tiniest nuances of this story: they are gunning for us as consumers, and it's either we stop it now or this industry radically changes into something not worth saving (if it even survives at all anyway).

If this not worth a boycott, absolutely no bit of game news would ever warrant such. If this is not worth a boycott, then we might as well all just go home and allow any business to take advantage of us simply because we don't want to put in the effort to push back. If this is not worth a boycott, then we never really loved games in the first place and this hobby of ours needs to go down in flames anyway.

I say, if this is not worth a boycott, then nothing in this industry ever would be.
Click to expand...
Amir0x for fucking president!

I posted the OP pic on my Facebook, but I can't help feeling that it won't do much, if anything at all. Still, it'd be worth it if at least one of my Facebook friends sees it and asks me about it.

GillianSeed79 said:
Can you explain this thread you made back in 2012:

www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462068

The title of which is:looks like i may be working on Xbox 720
Click to expand...
OH SHIT!
 
V

Vamphuntr

Member
When I read the thread title, I thought it was an official promo from MS to promote the Xbox One like Sony did for the Vita by telling your friends. This is much better.

Can you imagine some people will buy it without knowing all the details. They'll try to trade some games and they will get a sorry this title cannot be traded or sorry we don't take Xbox One trade-ins here.
 
Surface of Me

Surface of Me

I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Quoting this because it's a good post and some people in here should read it, not everyone wanting an X1 is a "shill".


dmaul1114 said:
All this really boils down to two broad camps.

1. Collectors, people who don't have internet, people who replay games and keep their old consoles, people who sell their games themselves, people who rent, people etc. etc. who are severely affected by this and are understandably pissed off about it.


It's easy to think that camp 1 should be everyone--and it is a huge chunk of serious gamers for sure, but it's not everyone. Enter camp 2....


2. People who truly aren't really affected by any of it. People who are always online, people who only/mostly play games online (and wouldn't be gaming if their internet is down anyway), people who just trade games in (they don't sell on their own, or collect games to play again later), people who sell/trade their consoles when they move onto the next gen (thus no concerns over being able to play the games years down the road) etc. etc.


Some of camp 2 may be pissed out of the principle of the matter, but they can more easily shrug it off as it doesn't affect their gaming habits at all, and they can maybe some some benefits in not having to change discs etc.

Thus some in camp 1 need to realize that not everyone who isn't livid over this crap is a shill or fanboy etc. Some people just aren't affected by it.

Myself, I guess I fall in camp 1 as I do resell my games after beating them. But that's it--I'm always online, I don't collect or replay games, I get rid of my consoles when I move on to a newer generation and so forth. So other than having severely limited reselling options (which pisses me off), my gaming wouldn't be much affected by this. So while I don't like it at all, I'm not in full on rage/boycott gaming mode yet either.
Click to expand...
 
T

timmaysmittay

Member
Nash20 said:
All these supposed violations of "consumer rights" are a direct result of the move to an all digital future.

Physical media in this day and age is wasteful and pointless. Imagine how the Iphone would have done if people had to put in a new cartridge for each individual app?

Sony would be smart to get on board and embrace it now, the alternative is getting steamrolled like they did by xbox live and the whole online play thing.
Click to expand...

Apps cost a buck, I want a hard copy of something I paid 60 for.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Nash20 said:
All these supposed violations of "consumer rights" are a direct result of the move to an all digital future.

Physical media in this day and age is wasteful and pointless. Imagine how the Iphone would have done if people had to put in a new cartridge for each individual app?

Sony would be smart to get on board and embrace it now, the alternative is getting steamrolled like they did by xbox live and the whole online play thing.
Click to expand...

So go all-digital, already.

Oh, except Microsoft is still scared of what would happen if they don't support retail.
 
C

CREMSteve

Member
I've done my part. Posted on Facebook and Twitter (rarely use it, so no one will probably read it, but whatever)

Also voting with my wallet, obviously.
 
baphomet

baphomet

Member
So independent retailers just aren't going to carry the system? More shelf space for PS4 games at least.

None of the online shit bothers me, but everything else does. I absolutely will not be purchasing one of these at any point. When this backfires bigger than they ever could imagine and their sells are below the Wii U every month, maybe then they'll realize how fucking stupid they are.
 
P

PantherAttacks

Member
Freki said:
Actually it might - can you play SoM on your SNES today? Will you be able to play Halo 5 in 20 years?
Click to expand...

This is the most concerning part for me. Between old hardware, emulators and a handful of official re-releases, it's very easy to play old games today. I believe we're about to enter a "lost age" of gaming, where the majority of titles will stop functioning in the future. It's a common occurrence for MMOs to shutdown, but if every game - even singleplayer ones - are closely tied into a server, then we'll see an entire generation of games lost in the shadows of time.

Throughout this coming generation, if you find a game you like, then by god play it and treasure it as much as you can before it's gone.
 
D

dmg04

#DEADWRONG
We should all be ashamed. Petrol prices are raising all around the world, yet we still drive our cars every day. Fuck us. We're a part of the problem.

I know I'm getting the Nextbox. I'm tempted to drop cash on the next playstation, too.

Xbox has a community that i've stood with for ~10 years.
Xbox continues to supply me with games that I enjoy.
Seeing as though I legitimately know people who make cash off of moded xboxes, pirated games, and all that shit... I see why they're looking to daily checks. I'm not mad about this.

Yes, I'm one of those squares that scoffs at illegal downloads of music, movies, and games. So in all seriousness, this shit doesn't bother me.

I'm sorry that I'm a part of the problem guys, but i'm not going to just say 'fuck it' when things aren't going to affect me in the ways that you seem to be claiming.
I've traded in many a game to try and afford new ones. I've lent games to others in hopes they'd enjoy halo.
Now I'm old enough to support my 1 game per quarter quota, and i'm stoked on a system with more power and more features.
 
T

tokkun

Member
BocoDragon said:
We wouldn't be upset if Microsoft went digital-only like Steam. 'No used games' is inherent to digital titles.

It's the artificially crippling of physical media that is the evil here... and the fact that a 24hr check in is enforced to make it happen.
Click to expand...

Steam has this thing called 'Steamworks', which allows publishers to force buyers of physical media to only use it through Steam.
 
N

Nash20

Banned
timmaysmittay said:
Apps cost a buck, I want a hard copy of something I paid 60 for.
Click to expand...

I own a Wii U and every game ive purchased has been digital. Its far more convenient to be able to power on my console and immediately jump in to the game I want to play. Its worth the extra 10-20 bucks I lose out on, and the amount of physical waste I would have produced for no reason.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Microsoft is working on an Xbox AI chatbot that can help with support queries and game refunds
News
28
2K
JackMcGunns replied
Windows Central - Sarah Bond has set up a new team dedicated to game preservation and forward compatibility
2 3 4 5
244
12K
Dorfdad replied
Xbox is the "number one platform for Diablo 4 players", says Xbox president
News 2 3
109
7K
Shake Your Rump replied
  • Locked
Inside Microsoft’s Xbox turmoil - The Verge
12
1K
Pelta88 replied
Phil Spencer’s Microsoft memo on ‘Xbox everywhere’ — The Verge
News 2
83
5K
KungFucius replied
Top Bottom