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[Manmademan]

It is very unreasonable to use this as an example of 'ending trends'. First off, PS3 was leagues ahead of the competition. It's also not the limitation of the medium, it's the limitation of the tech. Imagine if Sony were to try and push a new standard this year, after finally having gotten blu-ray through. Vio-Ray this time, 150 GB? Then it's be PS4 ahead of Xbone again in that department to, that's not really required. Remember FFVIII? I do.

This is about adaptation rate. Processing speeds and memory are not affected in the same way, especially when the buses have been largely unchanged for a very long time.

I agree. on a hardware end, most PS3 discs werent 50 gigs anyway. They were BD-25s. On top of that, the slow speed of the BR-Drive meant sony had to duplicate data repeatedly across the disc to reduce load times. so 50 gigs or 25 gigs of "unique" data wasn't possible.

Finally- I'm not certain but I'm reasonably positive that most modern BR drives (of which the PS4 is certainly one) support higher density BR discs- if not natively, then with a firmware upgrade. that's 100 gigs or so with BDXL.

 

[ChorusLindarr]

B3D really is a mess, and dreamers like Rangers/Specialguy/Tyrone, Xenio and eastman only prove to ruin any hopes of meaningful discussion even further.

I try to avoid that place these days.

 

[benny_a]

Rangers/specialguy/Tyrone is in full on melt down mode right now grasping at as many straws as possible and juniors/newly registered posters who post "inside information" get taken seriously over there despite none of these ever turning out to be right.

We have to keep the dream alive. The two GPU (one of them Nvidia) 4TFlops beast is coming. 12 GB RAM of course, because EA needed it for the FIFA FUT packed in card exclusive arrangement.

 

[i-Lo]

The article boldly states 7 GB in favour of PS4. I hope that's the case.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Seriously, he's right.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763939&postcount=4710

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763889&postcount=4704

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763153&postcount=4649

Seriously, it's getting sad and the mods at B3D won't ban these idiots so the forum is basically becoming unreadable right now. Rangers/specialguy/Tyrone is in full on melt down mode right now grasping at as many straws as possible and juniors/newly registered posters who post "inside information" get taken seriously over there despite none of these ever turning out to be right.

LOL that first link...bwahahahahaha.

 

[Perkel]

Seriously, he's right.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763939&postcount=4710

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763889&postcount=4704

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763153&postcount=4649

Seriously, it's getting sad and the mods at B3D won't ban these idiots so the forum is basically becoming unreadable right now. Rangers/specialguy/Tyrone is in full on melt down mode right now grasping at as many straws as possible and juniors/newly registered posters who post "inside information" get taken seriously over there despite none of these ever turning out to be right.

Looks like:

I am on beyond3D but that thread is borderline insane. Glad i did not see it earlier and i can safely go around that thread...

 

[Freki]

Seriously, he's right.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763939&postcount=4710

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763889&postcount=4704

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763153&postcount=4649

Seriously, it's getting sad and the mods at B3D won't ban these idiots so the forum is basically becoming unreadable right now. Rangers/specialguy/Tyrone is in full on melt down mode right now grasping at as many straws as possible and juniors/newly registered posters who post "inside information" get taken seriously over there despite none of these ever turning out to be right.

They should rename their community to "Beyond lol"...
But in all seriousness - it's sad to see this forum deteriorate further and further.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Seriously, he's right.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763939&postcount=4710

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763889&postcount=4704

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763153&postcount=4649

Seriously, it's getting sad and the mods at B3D won't ban these idiots so the forum is basically becoming unreadable right now. Rangers/specialguy/Tyrone is in full on melt down mode right now grasping at as many straws as possible and juniors/newly registered posters who post "inside information" get taken seriously over there despite none of these ever turning out to be right.

Oh God these people are insane.

 

[wizzbang]

I also tend to think that 5GB will become an issue later in the generation - especially when your oponent has 2 GB more of faster memory.

btw: How much RAM was common in PCs when 360/PS3 were revealed?

Don't quote me but I think most enthusiasts had about 1 to 2gb at the time. (2gb was way high end IIRC)
EDIT:
Looks like your hard nerds had 2gb of ram, your regulars had 1gb
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1902/2
and your really poor people had 512 / 768


Comparitely now, your hardcores have 8 or 16 and your regular people have 4
Personally I'm thinking the consoles doing the full 8gb is good - but they do need to reserve OS off that 8gb and we do have dedicated VRAM making some of us effectively "10gb" or "11gb" so to speak.
Still, I think the gap has closed somewhat

 

[Courage]

Seriously, he's right.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763939&postcount=4710

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763889&postcount=4704

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763153&postcount=4649

Seriously, it's getting sad and the mods at B3D won't ban these idiots so the forum is basically becoming unreadable right now. Rangers/specialguy/Tyrone is in full on melt down mode right now grasping at as many straws as possible and juniors/newly registered posters who post "inside information" get taken seriously over there despite none of these ever turning out to be right.

What am I reading?

 

[DeviantBoi]

Saw this on Reddit and I immediately thought of this thread.

 

[Ol No Bones]

What is sufficient now is not always the case tomorrow. 512mb of ram is the perfect example. 5gb is not enough.

512mb wasn't enough in 2006. These consoles are far more forward thinking on memory than the previous generation.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I wonder what would happen if someone told them that the mainboard design is finalised and all of the supply contracts are already in place. Production is due to start very soon if it hasn't started already. It takes a minimum of three months from the first finished box rolling off the production line in China to it being in stores in the US. To build up enough supply for a launch in the US and Europe simultaneously they will have to start producing them now (it should have started a couple of weeks ago going by a normal production timetable), especially if they want to avoid the same mistakes as last time with QC, I think another RRoD style fiasco will just kill the Xbox brand.

 

[jaosobno]

Seriously, he's right.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763939&postcount=4710

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763889&postcount=4704

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763153&postcount=4649

Seriously, it's getting sad and the mods at B3D won't ban these idiots so the forum is basically becoming unreadable right now. Rangers/specialguy/Tyrone is in full on melt down mode right now grasping at as many straws as possible and juniors/newly registered posters who post "inside information" get taken seriously over there despite none of these ever turning out to be right.

 

[benny_a]

I wonder what would happen if someone told them that the mainboard design is finalised and all of the supply contracts are already in place.

You can't reason people out of positions they haven't reasoned themselves into.

 

[Freki]

I wonder what would happen if someone told them that the mainboard design is finalised and all of the supply contracts are already in place. Production is due to start very soon if it hasn't started already. It takes a minimum of three months from the first finished box rolling off the production line in China to it being in stores in the US. To build up enough supply for a launch in the US and Europe simultaneously they will have to start producing them now (it should have started a couple of weeks ago going by a normal production timetable), especially if they want to avoid the same mistakes as last time with QC, I think another RRoD style fiasco will just kill the Xbox brand.

 

[dr_rus]

It's basically confirming that the differences between the two consoles will be small which is something we all figured would be the case anyway for multi plats. It's going to be first parties where you could really see the difference.

Anyone who still think that the difference between XBO and PS4 in multiplatform releases will be small is in for a big surprise in about half a year. It'll be much bigger than in this generation.

 

[DeadlyVirus]

It takes me 10 seconds to come up with a scenario where the 1.2TFlops GPU beats the 1.8Tflops GPU if I vary every other variable in a system.

Go ahead

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Anyone who still think that the difference between XBO and PS4 in multiplatform releases will be small is in for a big surprise in about half a year. It'll be much bigger than in this generation.

I think people need to keep in mind that third party developers on PS4 are going to be competing with Sony's first party and if there is a huge disparity then third parties will get shit from the hardcore until they bring their titles up to scratch which we know isn't going to be hard given the ease of development on PS4. While the same could be said for Xbone, it will be easier for third parties to dismiss it as being difficult to work with because of the eSRAM and DMAs complicating development.

 

[iceatcs]

I wonder what would happen if someone told them that the mainboard design is finalised and all of the supply contracts are already in place. Production is due to start very soon if it hasn't started already. It takes a minimum of three months from the first finished box rolling off the production line in China to it being in stores in the US. To build up enough supply for a launch in the US and Europe simultaneously they will have to start producing them now (it should have started a couple of weeks ago going by a normal production timetable), especially if they want to avoid the same mistakes as last time with QC, I think another RRoD style fiasco will just kill the Xbox brand.

If only it was coming from MS word then I agreed. Some else said that wont change the mind.


That's why some people are still not believe the final spec because MS lack info.

 

[benny_a]

Go ahead

Challenge accepted:

1.2 TFlop GPU
4GB GDDR5 at 192GB/s

1.8TFlop GPU
128MB DDR2 3200MB/s

Done.

 

[Wickerbasket]

I just don't understand how someone could be so invested in a brand that they'd lie to themselves to justify it.

Those beyond3d posts are hilarious.

 

[twobear]

I think people need to keep in mind that third party developers on PS4 are going to be competing with Sony's first party and if there is a huge disparity then third parties will get shit from the hardcore until they bring their titles up to scratch which we know isn't going to be hard given the ease of development on PS4. While the same could be said for Xbone, it will be easier for third parties to dismiss it as being difficult to work with because of the eSRAM and DMAs complicating development.

Any developer who claims the Xbone is difficult to work with is bullshitting, surely? It's exactly the same architecture as 360 last gen but with fewer constraints. It's literally almost identical to PS4 but with eSRAM (that developers will dump the frame buffer in and forget about).

 

[Wickerbasket]

Any developer who claims the Xbone is difficult to work with is bullshitting, surely? It's exactly the same architecture as last gen but with fewer constraints.

Obviously, but it's the excuse they'll use for why the PS4 version will run/look better.

 

[oneils]

Judging by this in 7 - 8 years we will have gaming machines with 80 GB (10x) to 128 GB (16x) of RAM. Sounds crazy.

What kind of minerals go into making RAM?

Probably a good time to buy stock in mining companies.

 

[twobear]

Obviously, but it's the excuse they'll use for why the PS4 version will run/look better.

Why would they lie about it when they can just say 'the Xbox is a little less powerful'?

 

[DeadlyVirus]

Challenge accepted:

1.2 TFlop GPU
4GB GDDR5 at 192GB/s

1.8TFlop GPU
128MB DDR2 3200MB/s

Done.

And where is that remotley true in the consoles?

 

[jaosobno]

IThat's why some people are still not believe the final spec because MS lack info.

MS lacks info because they have weaker specs than their primary competitor, not because they are hiding a 4 TFLOPS beast somewhere in their basement.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Why would they lie about it when they can just say 'the Xbox is a little less powerful'?

Because if they say that then they're putting the system down. It will attract less fan rage if they just say they're having trouble dealing with the power of the cloud or whatever.

It's all PR to make them look good.

 

[Shayan]

Challenge accepted:

1.2 TFlop GPU
4GB GDDR5 at 192GB/s

1.8TFlop GPU
128MB DDR2 3200MB/s

Done.

haha this is just Gold. Going by the specs of both machines, there would never be a case when the GPU with 16 rops would beat the GPU with 32 rops. PS4 has access to a much faster ram with a much bigger bandwidth than Xbone. Dont come up with bizarre scenarios

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

oh man, SenjutsuSage gets you guys every time.

 

[benny_a]

And where is that remotley true in the consoles?

I made a statement that I quoted that I can make the 1.2 TF GPU get better performance than the 1.8 TF GPU. I succeeded in doing that.

haha this is just Gold. Going by the specs of both machines, there would never be a case when the GPU with 16 rops would beat the GPU with 32 rops. PS4 has access to a much faster ram with a much bigger bandwidth than Xbone. Dont come up with bizarre scenarios

Maybe don't go into meltdown mode before you read the whole context.

 

[DeadlyVirus]

Any developer who claims the Xbone is difficult to work with is bullshitting, surely? It's exactly the same architecture as 360 last gen but with fewer constraints. It's literally almost identical to PS4 but with eSRAM (that developers will dump the frame buffer in and forget about).

Depends os the development tools. On a PC, even though we have a x86 architecture, there are hundreds of programming languages and development tools. Some are easier to work with than others.
At this point, no one knows which console is harder to program for

 

[phosphor112]

Seriously, he's right.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763939&postcount=4710

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763889&postcount=4704

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1763153&postcount=4649

Seriously, it's getting sad and the mods at B3D won't ban these idiots so the forum is basically becoming unreadable right now. Rangers/specialguy/Tyrone is in full on melt down mode right now grasping at as many straws as possible and juniors/newly registered posters who post "inside information" get taken seriously over there despite none of these ever turning out to be right.

*barf*

 

[DeadlyVirus]

I made a statement that I quoted that I can make the 1.2 TF GPU get better performance than the 1.8 TF GPU. I succeeded in doing that.

Then at least make a comparison that applies to what this thread is about.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Any developer who claims the Xbone is difficult to work with is bullshitting, surely? It's exactly the same architecture as 360 last gen but with fewer constraints. It's literally almost identical to PS4 but with eSRAM (that developers will dump the frame buffer in and forget about).

I don't disagree with you, but the opportunity for developers and publishers exists to put in less effort for Xbone and get away with it by labelling it as tough to work with where I don't think that exists with PS4 at all.

Whether it is true or not is irrelevant, it is the perception that Xbone is tougher to work with than PS4 that will stick.

 

[benny_a]

Then at least make a comparison that applies to what this thread is about.

Which is exactly the point I was making towards REMEMBER CITADEL.

 

[phosphor112]

haha this is just Gold. Going by the specs of both machines, there would never be a case when the GPU with 16 rops would beat the GPU with 32 rops. PS4 has access to a much faster ram with a much bigger bandwidth than Xbone. Dont come up with bizarre scenarios

And where is that remotley true in the consoles?

I think you guys misunderstood the quote. He said the 1.2 system CAN be more powerful than the 1.8 system IF the variables were different.

He gave different variables that proved his point.

That doesn't mean those variables are realistic or even remotely representative of the consoles.

 

[cyberheater]

What would it take for MS to have put in a more powerful GPU then the leaked specs stated. Is it remotely possible?

 

[DeadlyVirus]

I think you guys misunderstood the quote. He said the 1.2 system CAN be more powerful than the 1.8 system IF the variables were different.

He gave different variables that proved his point.

That doesn't mean those variables are realistic or even remotely representative of the consoles.

Doesn't mean it's a stupid comparison relative to this thread. It's like saying that my bike is faster than a Ferrari without gas

 

[diffusionx]

I don't disagree with you, but the opportunity for developers and publishers exists to put in less effort for Xbone and get away with it by labelling it as tough to work with where I don't think that exists with PS4 at all.

Whether it is true or not is irrelevant, it is the perception that Xbone is tougher to work with than PS4 that will stick.

This doesn't seem plausible to me. Computer science is, after, a science, and facts tend to win out. Unless the Xbox One completely bombs in the market (which won't happen), plenty of developers will work on it and the system will get the games.

 

[benny_a]

Doesn't mean it's a stupid comparison relative to this thread. It's like saying that my bike is faster than a Ferrari without gas

Calm down, read the context and don't derail the thread with a conversation that everyone with above third grade reading comprehension has already understood 57 posts ago.

Then stop making third grade comparisons

How can you not just take the context in its entirety, get the point and then shut up about it. I get it, the post you quoted was seductive. It could have been one where you showed how smart you were about this topic. But you should have sat back and not double down.

 

[Nachtmaer]

What would it take for MS to have put in a more powerful GPU then the leaked specs stated. Is it remotely possible?

It'd require them to redesign the entire SoC. If they wanted a beefier GPU, they would've done it a long time ago. At this point everything is set in stone.

 

[cormack12]

When I’ve had gaming PC’s I’ve noticed when they’ve hit their max power they just output more frames. So better hardware will output more frames than a lesser machine running the same game (and whatever effects). Surely it’s common sense that these features and frame rate will be able to be enabled on more powerful hardware? Isn’t that sort of common sense? If a multi-plat can run at 60fps on PS4 why cap it to 30?

 

[iamshadowlark]

This doesn't seem plausible to me. Computer science is, after, a science, and facts tend to win out. Unless the Xbox One completely bombs in the market (which won't happen), plenty of developers will work on it and the system will get the games.

He didn't imply that the system would miss out on ports. He's implying that they could get bad ports.

 

[DeadlyVirus]

Calm down, read the context and don't derail the thread with a conversation that everyone with above third grade reading comprehension has already understood 57 posts ago.

Then stop making third grade comparisons

 

[Whiteshirt]

What would it take for MS to have put in a more powerful GPU then the leaked specs stated. Is it remotely possible?

Yes its possible but it isn't as easy as simply grafting on extra computer units and shaders and whatever. They would probably have to re-evaluate the entire system from the SoC itself to the power supply.

The more hilarious thing is that the APU is be fucking huge. We're talking about more than double the size of the PS4's APU in terms of transistor quantity. Can you imagine TSMC manufacturing these?

 

[Ushae]

What would it take for MS to have put in a more powerful GPU then the leaked specs stated. Is it remotely possible?

If this were true, they would have done it months and months ago. Plus there would have been leaks. It's pretty much confirmed as being a 3:2 / PS4:X1 performance ratio between the 2 GPU's. No chance of that changing at this point. Unless MS trolled us all this time?

Spoiler

Nope

 

[Freki]

Then stop making third grade comparisons

He did exactly what you asked of him:

It takes me 10 seconds to come up with a scenario where the 1.2TFlops GPU beats the 1.8Tflops GPU if I vary every other variable in a system.

Go ahead

so please just stop...

 

[twobear]

I don't disagree with you, but the opportunity for developers and publishers exists to put in less effort for Xbone and get away with it by labelling it as tough to work with where I don't think that exists with PS4 at all.

Whether it is true or not is irrelevant, it is the perception that Xbone is tougher to work with than PS4 that will stick.

We're not looking at a PS3/360 situation where the former was so difficult to work with that it was not worthwhile from a cost/benefit point of view for much of the generation bringing the PS3 version up to par. That is why developers didn't put in the effort with the PS3 version, not just because it was harder to develop for per se and they really couldn't be arsed. Spending time on the PS3 version just represented man-hours and hence money that you probably wouldn't get returned by massively increased sales. PS4 and Xbone are both relatively straightforward architectures that are at least within the same ballpark spec-wise (by which I mean this is not a PS2/Xbox situation, or a Wii/PS360).

With a handful of exceptions, multiplatform titles this generation (and last) have generally lagged behind the best first-party exclusives, visually. That's just because you have to split development resources between two consoles and inevitably compromises have to be made in order to ship in a reasonable length of time and at a reasonable budget. If anything I would expect the gap between multiplatforms and exclusives to shrink on both consoles because of the architectural similarities between the two consoles making developing for two platforms relatively easier. I think suggesting that developers will put a lot more time and money into the PS4 version just to appease Sony fans and blame the discrepancy on a fictitiously difficult Xbone development environment is frankly somewhat absurd. If they were particularly worried about the gap between their efforts and Sony's first party they would have done it this generation.

Plus, I don't think that there really is any weight to the perception that Xbone is a prohibitively difficult development environment, outside of some extrapolation and spin by forum-goers of something that the chief architect of the PS4 said. There's no parallel with the PS3 because that was manifestly difficult to work with.