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[Sheroking]

It's an M-rated, not-to-be-taken-seriously, obscure Japanese game. Do we really think it's setting some kind of precedent? Is this harming gender equality in any way? Really, guys?

I respect the cause in general but you're making it harder to take seriously when you target this type of shit.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Wait, the women in the game don't consent to the sex?

Wait!.... You mean to tell me this is actually a rape game?!! I didn't know that.... I might pass.

 

[SousedLouse]

Yup. Its like the progressive (aka not asshole) side of OT doesn't make it over here to Gaming and this side is much worse off for it.

Right, because an escalatory comment like this

Would staring at them overtly for the purposes of curiosity be any better?

Maybe they're sex objects because they're presented as sex objects. If they didn't want to be sex objects, they could simply stick to a T-shirt and jeans (which is acceptable attire for a bar). Or a burqa. Wearing an outfit that makes your boobies prominent and then complaining when people stare at you for dressing provocatively is rather silly.

Of course, nobody's saying they should RAPE you, but you can't fault them for staring.

would never be uttered on the bastion of progressive discourse that is OT, right? Or is hyper-reactionary snark like this not considered asshole behavior? Because if not, then it would explain why this site is so fucking toxic.

 

[NotLiquid]

"WEIIIIIRDDDDD" artstyle with hypersexualization is his schtick that have nothing to do with the game. I don't mind the former as much as I mind the latter.

The pre-SoTD games would probably fall in your fancy then, most people would agree that his games hasn't been the same since after NMH. In Killer7 there was barely any of it and any that was there was thematic/mentioned and displayed to paint certain characters in an awful light (Curtis Blackburn in particular). Hell, that's why I liked that game - the taboos brought up there just served to make the game so much more darker and unexpected. No More Heroes had only minor tints of it to show how pathetic the protagonist was, which in context made it pretty funny and great.

Killer Is Dead seems to be mostly focused on the romance aspect in terms of the main characters, which is why I'm interested really. Suda hasn't really done any proper variation of that before. While the Gigolo Mode is really out-of-the-left-field and I'd probably not pay much attention to it if I don't have to, the hyperbole in reaction to it is pretty crazy. Considering the game's structure has a lot more in common with Killer7 than anything, that the gameplay finally looks refined and fast-paced enough to be considered palatable and since it easily feels like Suda's finally building a completely new world of lunacy, awesome characters and various themes, I'd be hard pressed to ignore that in favor of what looks to be a minor side mode.

 

[Rehynn]

Most people seem to be in the 'I will enjoy the rest of the game regardless of one silly mode' camp

I know I am.

 

[theDeeDubs]

If I wasn't already buying this I would anyway just to Black Knight this. As long as we're generalizing, most men in video games exist as a punching bag or as a face to get shot in.

 

[Jenga]

The defenders and anti-feminists in this thread are fucking hilarious. Could any one of them please explain why they're looking forward to gigolo mode and what it brings to the table? It's embarrassing.

anti-feminists? who're these "anti-feminists"?

does somehow wanting a joke sex mode mean I want to deny women suffrage?

 

[SolidSnakex]

How is it an overreaction? He's basically saying that Suda 51 can't be taken seriously as a developer with bullshit like this. It's sexist, its disgusting and it does nothing to advance the "art form" of video games (not that I'm in favor of the "video games are art" argument, but many gamers are). Whether you see it as hyperbole or not, I stand by those words because I want to believe in the respectability of the video game medium.

And how does this game diminish that in any way? Does The Bunny Game diminish films? No. You're going to have movies like that and games like this. You'll do far more harm to gaming or to movies by trying to silence those making them than you would by just allowing them to be released and ignoring their existence.

 

[Vanpastel]

He's calling the game shit because part of the "gameplay" involves the dehumanization, manipulation, and reduction of women into sex puzzles.

Sounds like it reduces women to gold digging, boob jiggling objects. And not just objects, but targets. Targets which you are rewarded for harassing.

Fuck off into space, indeed.

So the "game play" includes dehumanization of women, extremely sexist overtones, and sexual harassment. Not okay with this, if it is actually as he describes.

Sensible GAF right here, I strongly agree with you all.

 

[vulva]

Treating a woman like an object that has no feelings, emotions, or personality is treating them like dirt; that is to say, an object. Fictional technology is inconsequential.

I never said that this mode is at the same level as Ethnic Cleansing, I merely brought it up to say that just because it is fantasy doesn't mean that it's not offensive or distasteful in any way.

The technology is pretty important when you're trying to bring logic and reason to something that is entirely based without reason. If there was one sentence that stated that in this world, this was how sex was commonly achieved and was expected from both genders, would that make it okay for you? You're bringing logic and reason of reality to something very far removed from reality. This means that the parallels don't quite exist in the same fashion.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Dude comes over like a cocky idiot, what a cringeworthy video.
Tell me about how much these dumb sections intervene with real gameplay, if they are not optional anyway, etc. I thought he'd talk about something substantial, considering he repeats that he's not interested in whether or not the content is ,,offensive'' - yet all the video is about him, boosting his ego through some contrived feminism talk, lol and I sure don't give a fuck about that.

 

[antitrop]

Again, it's not about merely looking at someone you find attractive. Obviously that's okay. I draw the line at doing so in a predatory way, which the game very obviously encourages.

Maybe at the shopping mall, or something.

A bar situation between two, flirty single people is a little bit different. Obviously this is a ridiculous parody and insane exaggeration, though. It's a video game. It's "wacky, zany" and extremely reductionist. I can see how the absurd reductionism can be offensive to some.

 

[GolazoDan]

That's what he's losing his shit over? It's basically a built in mode for anyone that enjoys seeing game character's in less clothing. I guess it's ok to make characters in MGS Peacewalker run around in their bathing suits and take pictures (CQC Paz) or play Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball but Suda 51 is evil...

The Dead or Alive franchise in general would be dead without dem pervert physics.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

So he's calling the game shit because of an optional mode about mondo wanting to have sex with women. A mode that mirrors what takes place in real life bars where people regularly go to meet people of the opposite sex and have indiscriminate sex afterwards.
I don't fucking understand this dude.

Yes, this is a perfect 1:1 recreation of the bar social experience.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I'm always amused at the people who fake disgust and outrage over a game's sexual content, yet they don't seem to think the rest of the game revolving solely about murdering and maiming other human beings as offensive. It's a highly fascinating look at modern society's obsession with preset agendas

.

 

[BGBW]

Funny that the guy admits to playing a hentai game. I don't care how old you are. You're opinion is invalidated after admitting that.

Yeah man, smart guys just downloaded all the reward images so they didn't have to bother with the rubbish game part.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

The article makes me want the game more!

 

[Nanashi]

Treating a woman like an object that has no feelings, emotions, or personality is treating them like dirt; that is to say, an object. Fictional technology is inconsequential.

I never said that this mode is at the same level as Ethnic Cleansing, I merely brought it up to say that just because it is fantasy doesn't mean that it's not offensive or distasteful in any way.

What do you have against objects? People aren't exactly rare and when you stare at say, a CK advert, you don't exactly think about the personality, emotions nor feelings of a male underwear model either.

Sexual attraction is just one aspect of being a human being and there's no need to be prudish about the fact that people do judge by appearances based on personal interests. Slapping people and going "You shouldn't be thinking about sex" isn't constructive, unless you're Catholic. It takes a pretty large assumption to think the person fantasizing about sex sees them as "nothing more than just an object". The only person you can speak for is yourself, unless you're telepathic - and if seeing a sexy woman without much fleshing out of personality makes you think of her as an object, I'd recommend seeing a therapist before reaching for the pitchforks and torches.

 

[Flame Lord]

I was afraid that his reasoning for his opinion would be because of gameplay, but since that is not the case I really don't care what he thinks. Still excited for the game.

 

[Devolution]

Boring. Rehashed trite shit.

Also really paving the way for people to take the hobby seriously.

Thanks once again devs.

 

[Astarte]

So people are shit flinging over an optional segment in which mondo has sex with extremely shallow and fictional women, all the while they're ignoring that strong female protagonists exist in the main cast of this game. Female protagonists that don't simply exist to be sexual icons or shallow women looking for a quick fling.

 

[Neuromancer]

Are gamers complaining about extreme violence in games? No.

Some are.

 

[params7]

It's not simply looking at women's breasts -- it's staring, in secret, and doing so persistently for the purpose of getting off on it. Remember, these women are targets.

Males are attracted to certain bodyparts. Many have fetishes, such as for feet, which are like boobs to them. But breasts happen to be one of those bodyparts which strongly initiate a sexual arousal in males. What is wrong with any of this?

Sexual objectification comes in when a female in real life is treated like an object, regardless of her feelings (rape and abuse are prime examples). How did you make the correlation here?

Have any medical journals out there proven any correlation between Porn (including Sex videogames like this) to behaving like a sexist in real life, or are you just making a moral connection out of thin air?

 

[LordJim]

Yeah man, smart guys just downloaded all the reward images so they didn't have to bother with the rubbish game part.

Hey, there are some great fishing H games out there.
Gameplay is it's own reward

 

[Muffdraul]

The defenders and anti-feminists in this thread are fucking hilarious. Could any one of them please explain why they're looking forward to gigolo mode and what it brings to the table? It's embarrassing.

I was completely unaware of this gigolo mode thing and I'm not even sure if I'm going to bother with Killer Is Dead because I already have a little stack of Suda games that I've never bothered to finish because frankly they outlive their entertainment value long before the end.

What I find embarrassing is male feminism white knight claptrap. Holding the opinions isn't so bad, it's the fucking trumpeting them from the mountain tops that gets me. It really does reek of "Hey ladies, check it out... I'm on your side."

 

[Superflat]

Weird video. Weirder thread. Laughs had.

 

[Jenga]

Boring. Rehashed trite shit.

Also really paving the way for people to take the hobby seriously.

Thanks once again devs.

Ah shit, it's got the devolution seal of disapproval. Gonna buy 3 copies of dis shiz.

 

[katkombat]

Now that's two games in August I won't be getting. Saints Row IV for being able to create an over sexualized female and this for this so called "gigolo mode".

Can't believe game developers these days. Sexist pigs.

 

[Tain]

How is it an overreaction? He's basically saying that Suda 51 can't be taken seriously as a developer with bullshit like this. It's sexist, its disgusting and it does nothing to advance the "art form" of video games (not that I'm in favor of the "video games are art" argument, but many gamers are). Whether you see it as hyperbole or not, I stand by those words because I want to believe in the respectability of the video game medium.

I think that it's laughable that people specifically elevate garbage like No More Heroes, so I'm not the biggest Suda 51 fan, but I'm never going to let a brief, optional, trashy segment of a game make me think significantly less of a developer if everything outside of that segment is great.

 

[FireVoa]

The Dead or Alive franchise in general would be dead without dem pervert physics.

The point is why is it only now that this becomes an issue? If I play the DoA franchise to dress up women in bathing suits and take picture's it's my business. No one is forcing anyone to play the game the same way I do which is where my issue lies. If this Gigolo mode is forced that is one thing, otherwise it's no different than camera mode in other games which are optional.

 

[Rehynn]

Are gamers complaining about extreme violence in games? No.

I actually am in some cases. Torture in Splinter Cell, God of War gore-porn, etc.

 

[BocoDragon]

It annoys me how easy it is for someone to make a sexism/objectification critique, and the whole Internet dances to their tune, both for and against. I feel a massive thread coming on, and I'm already fatigued.

 

[kittens]

People say Matt Lees is overreacting, but seriously, nothing makes gamer dudes flip their shit more than someone even suggesting that a video game has sexist content. As soon as someone raises a concern, it's a total shit storm.

Game Critic: "Hey, so Leisure Suit Larry is kinda sexist, isn't it?"
Gamer Dudes: "NOPE WHY SO SERIOUS YOU'RE SO OVERSENSITIVE."
Game Critic: "Here, let me explain my critique in detail. I'll even do so in accessible video form."
Gamer Dudes: "WOW YOU MADE A VIDEO WHY ARE YOU OVERREACTING?"

thisisneogaf.gif

 

[Village]

Males are attracted to certain bodyparts. Many have fetishes, such as for feet, which are like boobs to them. But breasts happen to be one of those bodyparts which strongly initiate a sexual arousal in males. What is wrong with any of this?

Sexual objectification comes in when a female in real life is treated like an object (rape and abuse are prime examples). How did you make the correlation here?

Have any medical journals out there proven any correlation between Porn (including Sex videogames like this) to behaving like a sexist in real life, or are you just making a moral connection out of thin air?

Fun fact you can and this has been done before in many mediums objectify fictional women.

 

[Courage]

The pre-SoTD games would probably fall in your fancy then, most people would agree that his games hasn't been the same since after NMH. In Killer7 there was barely any of it and any that was there was thematic/mentioned and displayed to paint certain characters in an awful light (Curtis Blackburn in particular). Hell, that's why I liked that game - the taboos brought up there just served to make the game so much more darker and unexpected. No More Heroes had only minor tints of it to show how pathetic the protagonist was, which in context made it pretty funny and great.

Killer Is Dead seems to be mostly focused on the romance aspect in terms of the main characters, which is why I'm interested really. Suda hasn't really done any proper variation of that before. While the Gigolo Mode is really out-of-the-left-field and I'd probably not pay much attention to it if I don't have to, the hyperbole in reaction to it is pretty crazy. Considering the game's structure has a lot more in common with Killer7 than anything, that the gameplay finally looks refined and fast-paced enough to be considered palatable and since it easily feels like Suda's finally building a completely new world of lunacy, awesome characters and various themes, I'd be hard pressed to ignore that in favor of what looks to be a minor side mode.

If it's just a minor side mode I can get past it, hell, if it's better explained and contextualized in the game I can tolerate it. But going by Suda's past record, I don't know if I can believe that.

 

[Nanashi]

Right, because an escalatory comment like this


would never be uttered on the bastion of progressive discourse that is OT, right? Or is hyper-reactionary snark like this not considered asshole behavior? Because if not, then it would explain why this site is so fucking toxic.

If you're going to complain about my point, you would do better to actually describe your position on why you think my points are invalid. Women have the freedom to dress how they want and to dress themselves responsibly. If a man dressed up in nothing but a thong and chest-hugging shirt and got ogled at in public and later complained about people "visually undressing" him, I'd be just as dismissive of his complaint.

If I want to get taken seriously at a job interview, I wouldn't choose to dress like a stripper. People make conscious decisions about how they dress.

 

[Nowhere Man]

Most people seem to be in the 'I will enjoy the rest of the game regardless of one silly mode' camp

Exactly, I'm buying the game because of this. I don't care about stupid gigolo mode, I'll play it since there will probably be trophies tied to it so I can get the platinum but I'm in it for the combat, art style and hopefully entertaining fucked up story.

 

[BGBW]

Boring. Rehashed trite shit.

Also really paving the way for people to take the hobby seriously.

Thanks once again devs.

People take movies and music seriously and both of those are filled with a lot of trite. Why must every single videogame be high culture?

 

[Haunted]

 

[antitrop]

The defenders and anti-feminists in this thread are fucking hilarious. Could any one of them please explain why they're looking forward to gigolo mode and what it brings to the table? It's embarrassing.

It just doesn't matter. It's nothing. It's just a silly minigame in some niche Japanese video game. It's barely worth making a video about, honestly.

I don't like it, I don't hate it, I just don't care about it. It brings nothing to the table, it takes nothing away.

 

[Endo Punk]

Not a Suda fan nor will I ever purchase his games bu I don't see what the big deal is. It's an original title that is completely in tune with his sense of humor and style. Don't like it don't play it.

How is it an overreaction? He's basically saying that Suda 51 can't be taken seriously as a developer with bullshit like this. It's sexist, its disgusting and it does nothing to advance the "art form" of video games (not that I'm in favor of the "video games are art" argument, but many gamers are). Whether you see it as hyperbole or not, I stand by those words because I want to believe in the respectability of the video game medium.

Developers should not be restricted in any form, art is subjective. You will bound to get people who are offended by one or the other, just don't pay attention to games you don't consider "respectable".

 

[ponpo]

People take movies and music seriously and both of those are filled with a lot of trite. Why must every single videogame be high culture?

Movies and music have some redeemable things about them though. This is a Suda game we're talking about ( ≖‿&#8790

 

[Arc Christelle]

The Dead or Alive Soul Calibur franchise in general would be dead without dem pervert physics.

Fixed.

 

[BocoDragon]

People say Matt Lees is overreacting, but seriously, nothing makes gamer dudes flip their shit more than someone even suggesting that a video game has sexist content. As soon as someone raises a concern, it's a total shit storm.

Game Critic: "Hey, so Leisure Suit Larry is kinda sexist, isn't it?"
Gamer Dudes: "NOPE WHY SO SERIOUS YOU'RE SO OVERSENSITIVE."
Game Critic: "Here, let me explain my critique in detail. I'll even do so in accessible video form."
Gamer Dudes: "WOW YOU MADE A VIDEO WHY ARE YOU OVERREACTING?"

thisisneogaf.gif

What's the alternative?

Yes, please censor and ban these games we like!

 

[Astarte]

If it's just a minor side mode I can get past it, hell, if it's better explained and contextualized in the game I can tolerate it. But going by Suda's past record, I don't know if I can believe that.

WHAT past record? You mean the record in which he's had next to no involvement in? Games that he didnt even direct? Fucks sake man. It's been stated time and time again, this is optional.

 

[Jenga]

I think that it's laughable that people specifically elevate garbage like No More Heroes.

this dude

People say Matt Lees is overreacting, but seriously, nothing makes gamer dudes flip their shit more than someone even suggesting that a video game has sexist content. As soon as someone raises a concern, it's a total shit storm.

Game Critic: "Hey, so Leisure Suit Larry is kinda sexist, isn't it?"
Gamer Dudes: "NOPE WHY SO SERIOUS YOU'RE SO OVERSENSITIVE."
Game Critic: "Here, let me explain my critique in detail. I'll even do so in accessible video form."
Gamer Dudes: "WOW YOU MADE A VIDEO WHY ARE YOU OVERREACTING?"

thisisneogaf.gif

...are you someone's alt account?

 

[digita1alchemy]

I think it sounds hilarious and I'm looking forward to playing it. People need to lighten up.

 

[SousedLouse]

So people are shit flinging over an optional segment in which mondo has sex with extremely shallow and fictional women, all the while they're ignoring that strong female protagonists exist in the main cast of this game. Female protagonists that don't simply exist to be sexual icons or shallow women looking for a quick fling.

You probably want to drop this line of reasoning. It falls right into the requirement for the requisite tokenism argument on the social justice flowchart; if you bail out now, you might be able to avoid the cut-and-paste arguments that other posters will grab from all the other threads about sexism in video games (or stuff they might have saved in Notepad for their big chance to make a stand!) and plaster all over the thread.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

To be honest the only reason people tolerate Gochi Suda is that because he makes weird (and medicore) games that feel like a breath of fresh air among all the dudebro shootbangs.
Japan is pretty bad about women's rights as it is and women seem to be unwelcome in the games industry, getting attacked by frothing fanboys or BOOBS OR GTFO. Stuff like this does not help at all and makes us look like immature perverts

Please Suda, think with your brain not your dick. For once.

 

[Tain]

It just doesn't matter. It's nothing. It's just a silly minigame in some niche Japanese video game. It's barely worth making a video about, honestly.

I don't like it, I don't hate it, I just don't care about it. It brings nothing to the table, it takes nothing away.

but respect and games as art and citizen kane!

how can i justify my hobbies to my parents when games like this exist!?