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[Spieler Eins]

The real disappointing fact about this is, that big parts are still clearly on the goofy Lollipop/SotD level of a narrative instead of going back to the tone of Killer7.
Guess that's never gonna happen again :/

 

[LordJim]

Movies and music have some redeemable things about them though. This is a Suda game we're talking about ( ≖‿&#8790

E3 impressions about the gameplway were good though

 

[Devolution]

People take movies and music seriously and both of those are filled with a lot of trite. Why must every single videogame be high culture?

High culture? How about just not lowest common denominator on a grand scale?

 

[kittens]

Yes, this is a perfect 1:1 recreation of the bar social experience.

The Official NeoGAF Guide to Dating

 

[Deleted member 59090]

If this is sarcasm ok,
if it isn't that horrible logic. I'm sorry you know song of the south you can't be offended by that it isn't real. Even though real people made it and someone thought it was ok.

Do you also get offended by every murder in every video game?

And in Russia you can video tape the beating of some homosexual teens.Not saying this is anywhere near the level of the former, however country of origin justifies jackus shiticus

Prostitution is not just a Japanese phenomena though. But they do have hostess clubs and other kinds of establishments where scantily clad ladies are at your service and it's perfectly legal.

 

[Swifty]

I was completely unaware of this gigolo mode thing and I'm not even sure if I'm going to bother with Killer Is Dead because I already have a little stack of Suda games that I've never bothered to finish because frankly they outlive their entertainment value long before the end.

What I find embarrassing is male feminism white knight claptrap. Holding the opinions isn't so bad, it's the fucking trumpeting them from the mountain tops that gets me. It really does reek of "Hey ladies, check it out... I'm on your side."

In other words, if you have anything in any way that may be construed as supporting a feminist view, shut your mouth. Opinions that don't fall in that intersection? Preach on man.

 

[Village]

People take movies and music seriously and both of those are filled with a lot of trite. Why must every single videogame be high culture?

That doesn't make those things good, it makes all of it bad.

People complain about things they feel are messed up in those genres too.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Shadow of the Damned is great.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Again, it's not about merely looking at someone you find attractive. Obviously that's okay. I draw the line at doing so in a predatory way, which the game very obviously encourages.

Spending most of my School years in a class full of intelligent, lovely 16 to 20 year old girls/women I got to tell you, it rarely ever stays at "looking at someone you find attractive" and mostly turns into: Would, Would, Nope, Nope, definetly nope, HELLO STEAK (Steak was actually a word used to describe instant panty drop material... not my description mind you)

Nothing creepy about that, unless you actually start to harass people and make them uncomfortable or stalk them of course. Which really goes both ways as I've seen it from both sexes.

 

[Courage]

WHAT past record? You mean the record in which he's had next to no involvement in? Games that he didnt even direct? Fucks sake man. It's been stated time and time again, this is optional.

Like I said, if it's optional and minor I can get past it.

He also stated he was gonna include this mode in Shadows of the Damned, so I'm lead to believe he had some control over these modes. He may not be director, but he can still influence game development.

 

[Shalashaska161]

Of course it's sexist as hell. It's just hard to care in this instance. It's an incredible niche game from a developer that is known for this sort of thing. It's good that people know I guess, so they can avoid it if it bothers them. But I just don't see any real reason to raise a big stink. There are far larger fish to fry than a videogame thats gonna sell 40k copies.

And man, that was an awful, awful video. That guy shouldn't smoke a pack before getting before the camera.

 

[ponpo]

E3 impressions about the gameplway were good though

Oh, were they? It's looked disinteresting to me since the reveal so I stopped paying attention after some famitsu videos.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

How do REAL women and not the white knights feel about this?

 

[Symthic]

The technology is pretty important when you're trying to bring logic and reason to something that is entirely based without reason. If there was one sentence that stated that in this world, this was how sex was commonly achieved and was expected from both genders, would that make it okay for you? You're bringing logic and reason of reality to something very far removed from reality. This means that the parallels don't quite exist in the same fashion.

It isn't, because extraneous details such as the fact that you wear x-ray glasses have nothing to do with the underlying context, tone, and theme. You could just as well not be wearing them and the "x-ray" vision could just be a gameplay mechanic, much like some random feature on the HUD.

Are you saying that the inclusion of x-ray glasses is reason enough that the mindless objectification of women is to be overlooked?

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

White knights can fuck off.

 

[Eusis]

The real disappointing fact about this is, that big parts are still clearly on the goofy Lollipop/SotD level of a narrative instead of going back to the tone of Killer7.
Guess that's never gonna happen again :/

Just have to hope things change under GungHo, or that the game's deceptive thus far. Even NMH had some pretty crazy stuff in it even if it was on the humorous side.

 

[Jenga]

Spending most of my School years in a class full of intelligent, lovely 16 to 20 year old girls/women I got to tell you, it rarely ever stays at "looking at someone you find attractive" and mostly turns into: Would, Would, Nope, Nope, definetly nope, HELLO STEAK (Steak was actually a word used to describe instant panty drop material... not my description mind you)

Nothing creepy about that, unless you actually start to harass people and make them uncomfortable or stalk them of course. Which really goes both ways as I've seen it from both sexes.

where the fuck are you from where "steak" is an adjective

 

[Basketball]

Now that's two games in August I won't be getting. Saints Row IV for being able to create an over sexualized female and this for this so called "gigolo mode".

Can't believe game developers these days. Sexist pigs.

 

[AlucardGV]

People say Matt Lees is overreacting, but seriously, nothing makes gamer dudes flip their shit more than someone even suggesting that a video game has sexist content. As soon as someone raises a concern, it's a total shit storm.

Game Critic: "Hey, so Leisure Suit Larry is kinda sexist, isn't it?"
Gamer Dudes: "NOPE WHY SO SERIOUS YOU'RE SO OVERSENSITIVE."
Game Critic: "Here, let me explain my critique in detail. I'll even do so in accessible video form."
Gamer Dudes: "WOW YOU MADE A VIDEO WHY ARE YOU OVERREACTING?"

thisisneogaf.gif

he said that the game is a disaster, it's embarassing, suda 51 lost his respect, he should quit, the game should be thrown into space because a mini-game that you can skip. that's overreacting to me.

 

[Senor Kami]

You're misunderstanding the complaint about this mode. This mode rests on the premise that it's completely socially acceptable to undress (and imagine) the people you're attracted to...

If the concept of fantasizing and having sexual thoughts about people without getting their consent first offends you, like how have you survived life?

 

[rockx4]

What I find embarrassing is male feminism white knight claptrap. Holding the opinions isn't so bad, it's the fucking trumpeting them from the mountain tops that gets me. It really does reek of "Hey ladies, check it out... I'm on your side."

Gotta say I sort of agree with this. Sometimes they seem to care more about these issues than actual women.

As for the game though, the feature looks embarrassingly bad in the video.

 

[Symthic]

Like I said, if it's optional and minor I can get past it.

He also stated he was gonna include this mode in Shadows of the Damned, so I'm lead to believe he had some control over these modes. He may not be director, but he can still influence game development.

He also made Lollipop Chainsaw.

 

[Village]

Do you also get offended by every murder in every video game?

Depends on the type of murder and the context its in.

Prostitution is not just a Japanese phenomena though. But they do have hostess clubs and other kinds of establishments where scantily clad ladies are at your service and it's perfectly legal.

But this was a bar if my understanding was correct, and while I do find it funny. You were just being creepy in a bar.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

I agree that Suda 51's shtick is way past due. You can have a sexy love interest "Bond girl" in a game like MGS3 (EVA) and not have it turn into something like this "gigolo mode". If he wants to be respected he should try to do things a bit more classy or at least less dumb.

 

[LordJim]

Oh, were they? It's looked disinteresting to me since the reveal so I stopped paying attention after some famitsu videos.

Some hype it as much better than NMH ever was, but until I get a demo, I will not rush into any purchase

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

And how does this game diminish that in any way? Does The Bunny Game diminish films? No. You're going to have movies like that and games like this. You'll do far more harm to gaming or to movies by trying to silence those making them than you would by just allowing them to be released and ignoring their existence.

The film industry's roots can be traced back to a much more conservative era where a film like the The Bunny Game couldn't have been made, and by the time it was deemed "acceptable" to make such films Hollywood had already established its aura of respectability through the great classics of the 30's, 40's, and 50's. The video game medium, by comparison, is still growing and has a long way to go if there are so gamers like you will defend a game's right to allow you to live out a creepy sexist fantasy. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Suda 51 = Lars Von Trier + Roman Polanski

 

[ponpo]

How do REAL women and not the white knights feel about this?

If this video was by a woman instead, you think it would be well received?

Some hype it as much better than NMH ever was, but until I get a demo, I will not rush into any purchase

Or just 3 weeks for guaranteed Suda bomba.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Exactly, I'm buying the game because of this. I don't care about stupid gigolo mode, I'll play it since there will probably be trophies tied to it so I can get the platinum but I'm in it for the combat, art style and hopefully entertaining fucked up story.

On the topic of gameplay: The trailer looks nice, but Lolipop Chainsaw gave me one of the biggest cases of buyer's remorse I've ever had and those trailers made that game look passable as well.

 

[SlasherJPC]

You know the same complaints could have been level'd at a game like Ride To Hell... which was going for a very realistic- non fantasy approach (which killer is dead is completelly opposite) and shows sex as a reward for simple beating someone up, and makes a mockery of the whole istuation.. Why didn't anyone really bring this up or to attention? Cause the game was terrible and no one cares. This is getting more eyes on it due to being a Suda 51 game, no doubt.

 

[BocoDragon]

High culture? How about just not lowest common denominator on a grand scale?

This game isn't representative of games in general, and for that matter, neither was Dragon's Crown.

A bunch of wierd Japanese imports with nichey content. It's like picking on a couple of violent indie films because you don't like what they are doing to all of film.

 

[NotLiquid]

The real disappointing fact about this is, that big parts are still clearly on the goofy Lollipop/SotD level of a narrative instead of going back to the tone of Killer7.
Guess that's never gonna happen again :/

The good news is that Suda's a lot more involved in the scenarios this time around and he's basically going for the Killer7 scenario approach in that each episode in the game is it's own story, potentially setting undercurrents for a finale. Can't say I'm seeing the "goofy" since with the exception of Mondo's assistant, they all look like serious characters with serious backstories.

While I do miss the complete trip of that game I can settle with what hopefully looks to be the dividing line between it and No More Heroes. I've just come to accept that there won't be anything like Killer7 - even if he tried.

 

[Muffdraul]

What makes you think everyone in this thread is male?

I was referring to the guy in the video. But yeah, I'm sure the vast majority in here are male too.

Wake me up when Suda makes a game where you actually rape someone, then I'll sign your petition to get his developer license revoked.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

anti-feminists? who're these "anti-feminists"?

does somehow wanting a joke sex mode mean I want to deny women suffrage?

I thought I was clearly referring to the posters who were whining about people raising awareness of sexist elements in games such as:

Really. If people dont like the content of the game, then don't fucking play it. But no.. they must run to the internet to whine via twitter, blogs, articles, etc!

Though I'd happily point out that not denying women's suffrage doesn't mean your not anti-feminist.

Did that many people say 'looking forward to this mode'?
Most people seem to be in the 'I will enjoy the rest of the game regardless of one silly mode' camp

If that's the case them maybe those people can step back and consider why others might find a mode that offers no value to anybody which exists solely to objectify women is a disgusting practice.

 

[GooeyHeat]

Uuuuuugh. I was really looking forward to the game, but this mode does not make me happy. I'm conflicted about buying the game at all, now, because I'm not sure I want to support this kind of content, but the game looked really cool before this, so I don't know.

I do know that if you have to do gigolo mode at all in order to complete the game, then it can fuck right off. Even if I buy a game with this kind of shit in it, I don't want to have to actually deal with it.

Maybe I should just go buy Killer7 and play that, since I still haven't done so.

 

[~Kinggi~]

From that guys video, this shit sounds awesome. Fucking best game ever. Offend the shit out of me suda i will fap to that.

 

[Floex]

I just can't agree. What I've seen of it looks fantastic. Possibly the only real successor to Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry we'll see for quite some time.

Urgh.... no it isn't, if anything that was Bayonetta. If the combat is anyway like suda games then it'll be considered mediocre at best.

 

[Devolution]

This game isn't representative of games in general, and for that matter, neither was Dragon's Crown.

A bunch of wierd Japanese imports with nichey content. It's like picking on a couple of violent indie films because you don't like what they are doing to all of film.

I didn't say this game was, said it was another on the pile. Dragon's Crown is different, and I argued in favor of the artist on that one.

 

[Endo Punk]

The western gaming media has become so fragile with the way women are portrayed. At this rate I will never get my heavy metal amazon women video game...

 

[Astarte]

He also made Lollipop Chainsaw.

He didn't make it, for fucks sake. All suda did was produce it. It was a short cash in so grasshopper can stay afloat. The game was written by a white guy, directed by someone who isn't suda, and had character designs done by someone else entirely.

 

[Fitrix]

Im still gonna buy the game.

If the gigolo mode is pulled out from the game due to the "controversy",Im gonna flip a table.

 

[Gintoki313]

So he called the whole game crap due to one mode in the game? That doesn't justify writing the whole game off, but I can see someone giving it a 1 point off for it.

I personally don't like the giggolo thing because I find it really pointless in the game. I don't know much about the game but if this guy says it right and it's for a present or to see who's your next target, it's really pointless. I don't mind nudity and sexual things in my videogames as much as the next guy, but at least make the sexual themes make since. The target thing could be easily replaced by a phone call or message left by someone (once again I don't know what gigolo does, I'm just going by what the video guy said).

I still remember seeing that giggolo thing and seeing it as pointless when the whole point of the game looked cool as is.

 

[fabricated backlash]

where the fuck are you from where "steak" is an adjective

Not an adjective, a noun. It's the basic objectification of a sexual attractive male, by likening him to a juicy steak. In that category, a man isn't a person, but a tasty piece of meat, that is desired to be devoured.

Mind you, I was never designated with this noun, for one because my looks never elevated me to Steak level, on the other because I was really good friends with most of them, and I was an asexual drunk bastard at that age. All I cared about was getting drunk, listening to Metal and drawing.

 

[Facism]

If the concept of fantasizing and having sexual thoughts about people without getting their consent first offends you, like how have you survived life?

probably with a lot of guilt and self-loathing.

 

[params7]

Im still gonna buy the game.

If the gigolo mode is pulled out from the game due to the "controversy",Im gonna flip a table.

No chance, its Japan. They'll have a good laugh about it.

 

[Nowhere Man]

On the topic of gameplay: The trailer looks nice, but Lolipop Chainsaw gave me one of the biggest cases of buyer's remorse I've ever had and those trailers made that game look passable as well.

The combat in KiD looks a lot better than Lollipop, but I loved Lollipop! I consider it as fun as it was stupid, which is to say immensely.

 

[vulva]

It isn't, because extraneous details such as the fact that you wear x-ray glasses have nothing to do with the underlying context, tone, and theme. You could just as well not be wearing them and the "x-ray" vision could just be a gameplay mechanic, much like some random feature on the HUD.

Are you saying that the inclusion of x-ray glasses is reason enough that the mindless objectification of women is to be overlooked?

I'm saying that in an entirely fictionalized and different world from our own, context is absolutely required before taking such a hard stance on anything.

 

[Swifty]

How do REAL women and not the white knights feel about this?

I'm sure many of the people here accusing people of being "white knights" completely respect Anita Sarkeesian for being a real woman.

 

[MvmntInGrn]

This was a big turn off for me when it was shown months ago (and in most of their videos since then). I was wondering if this kind of video/impression would erupt eventually.

It is especially tasteless in a medium filled with tasteless oversexualization of women. I'm not a huge fan of Suda51s work but I have always rooted for him. This just looks trashy though and should not get by just because he is a well regarded developer.

 

[H.Protagonist]

Not condoning the mode, but the video has some information wrong.

1) Mondo staring at the women doesn't excite them. That's to fill up his 'Guts' meter so that he has the courage to make the move, as it were.

2) He doesn't give cash as a present. There is a gold coin (like a collector's or commemorative thing) as one of the gifts, but it's not like he hands over bills in exchange for sex. :/ Gold coin vs. dollar bills is probably just semantics for some, but the video really kind of misrepresents it.

3) My impression from speaking with Suda at dinner after E3 about the mode itself was that it was just a silly break in the action.


Again, not trying to defend it, but I felt the video got a few things wrong. Take it as you will, I guess.