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[vpance]

What I dont understand is, how can they get a frame buffer in for 1080p AA alongside it considering the eSram is SMALL - they should have went with atleast 64mb surely.

Yup, 7 billion transistors would've been a great feat.

 

[Chobel]

because power and price matters more than actual games?

Yes, if the game you wanted will come to both consoles... FIFA, COD, Madden

 

[Nightengale]

And now Sony fanboys are bringing pulled phone parody adds into this thread to shit on MS some more.

While I don't agree on jumping to conclusions of what to expect, that was a real MS ad.

While they may not necessarily do it, MS is not above extremely pathetic and disgusting ad/marketing campaigns.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

And now Sony fanboys are bringing pulled phone parody adds into this thread to shit on MS some more.

Microsoft shit on themselves. Repeatedly. Pointing it out a crime isn't a crime.

 

[cyberheater]

It's idiotic to take his word over loads of other devs who are working on games for both pieces of hardware who say otherwise? Whatever floats your boat. Seems to me you're clutching at one single tiny lifeline while drowning in a deluge of evidence to the contrary.

It might interest you to know I'm a complete graphic whore. Currently own all the consoles and a gaming PC and my next console will most definitely be a PS4 due to it's better performance relative to Xbox One.

I'm just not at the point in believing that the real world performance gap will be anything as large as a lot of you seem to think it will be.

 

[cyberheater]

While I don't agree on jumping to conclusions of what to expect, that was a real MS ad.

While they may not necessarily do it, MS is not above extremely pathetic and disgusting ad/marketing campaigns.

Microsoft shit on themselves. Repeatedly. Pointing it out a crime isn't a crime.

I don't agree with the add. I think it's in poor taste. But it has no place in this thread.

 

[Nightengale]

But it has no place in this thread.

This I agree.

Let's not make assumptions on what kind of anti-PS4 ads MS will do... until they actually do it. Then that's a separate topic altogether.

 

[Vizzeh]

Yup, 9 billion transistors would've been a great feat.

Bit of an exaggeration there lol - using a websearch, with probably no reliability but the eSRAM is 32MB of 6T SRAM with 9-bits per byte for ECC that'd be 1.8b transistors.

My passing comment on the size of the ram was irrelevant to the reason me posting my Tiled resource 16mb file size streaming to eSRAM post.

 

[$h@d0w]

And now Sony fanboys are bringing pulled phone parody adds into this thread to shit on MS some more.

I don't agree with the add. I think it's in poor taste. But it has no place in this thread.

I am sorry.

I posted it because I feel that Microsoft have no boundaries when it comes to marketing.

This thread is just the beginning.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

It might interest you to know I'm a complete graphic whore. Currently own all the consoles and a gaming PC and my next console will most definitely be a PS4 due to it's better performance relative to Xbox One.

I'm just not at the point in believing that the real world performance gap will be anything as large as a lot of you seem to think it will be.

Oh I'm absolutely with you there. I don't think the graphics difference will be all that huge. But it will exist. I just get tired of all the desperate talk about "balance" or some other bullshit that's supposed to make up for the rather large power difference (not saying from you--just in general).

FWIW, I also firmly believe Xbone will slaughter PS4 in the US, just like 360 did to PS3.

 

[Josman]

It's sad to see some people on this thread have a hard time dealing with this, I even saw ben kuchera from PA post a rant on twitter, the specs are right in front of us indicating the said 50% advantage and yet they remain in denial, quoting devs like Carmack who didn't even benchmark the hardware and can't obviously diss one platform in favor of the other. We don't need devs stating things, the 50% is there, the only question is how will it transalte.

 

[Biker19]

Dude, the numbers are right there in front of you. I don't know what's so hard to believe. Of course Kojima isn't going to say there's a big difference when he just had MGSV at the Microsoft conference.

The numbers. Look into them. They represent a 40% to 50% advantage in GPU power for the PS4 so it really isn't surprising when anonymous devs confirm that. And that doesn't even account for the customizations Sony made to give it an even further advantage. We know the details of each system. There is no secret sauce/wizard jizz in the Xbox One design that closes the gap in any meaningful way. But by all means feel free to prove us wrong if you know something. I can assure you that if the performance gap were false, MS would tell us why in detail. But nope, lol we made directx.

I agree. The Xbox One doesn't have something like "you can combine the cell processor & the weaker GPU to get better graphics" bit like the PS3 does.

If it has, then Microsoft would've mentioned it.

 

[pixlexic]

Yes, if the game you wanted will come to both consoles... FIFA, COD, Madden

not if wanted those games and forza, KI , and halo.

 

[MrPresident]

Tim Cook does not have black hair, isn't sickly-thin, isn't balding, and isn't known for wearing black shirts.

Not that I want to go off topic, but he's referred to as 'T' in the ad.

 

[pixlexic]

dbl post

 

[Pain]

because power and price matters more than actual games?

The best games are multi platform.

 

[AranhaHunter]

so you're saying we'll see this by the end of the generation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkHoDEh0FWc

I hadn't seen that video. I doubt we'll see anything close to that in terms of difference between the two consoles, especially on multiplat games.

 

[pixlexic]

It might interest you to know I'm a complete graphic whore. Currently own all the consoles and a gaming PC and my next console will most definitely be a PS4 due to it's better performance relative to Xbox One.

I'm just not at the point in believing that the real world performance gap will be anything as large as a lot of you seem to think it will be.

people here seem to think its going be like this.

PS4

Xbone

 

[Pain]

It's sad to see some people on this thread have a hard time dealing with this, I even saw ben kuchera from PA post a rant on twitter, the specs are right in front of us indicating the said 50% advantage and yet they remain in denial, quoting devs like Carmack who didn't even benchmark the hardware and can't obviously diss one platform in favor of the other. We don't need devs stating things, the 50% is there, the only question is how will it transalte.

Carmack isn't even developing for these platforms. He's working on Oculus.

 

[cyberheater]

FWIW, I also firmly believe Xbone will slaughter PS4 in the US, just like 360 did to PS3.

I'm a Xbox fanboy but I believe Sony will dominate in all territories. The price alone will enable that.

 

[Thrakier]

people here seem to think its going be like this.

PS4

Xbone
http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/123/122995/auto/wolfenstein-3d.png

I don't think that is what anybody thinks. People just think that the difference will clearly be visible and show even more so over the years and that there is simply no reason to buy an inferior console for more money except a potential good Halo game in 1 or 2 years.

See how desperate MS is when they are showing a somewhat generic Halo themed CGI teaser because there is not much more to get people hyped.

 

[boredandlazy]

people here seem to think its going be like this.

PS4

Xbone

No, they don't.

 

[PG2G]

Yes, if the game you wanted will come to both consoles... FIFA, COD, Madden

You do realize you aren't disagreeing with him right?

 

[Chobel]

not if wanted those games and forza, KI , and halo.

You forget "IMO" there. And that's prove my point, Some people don't think like you.

You do realize you aren't disagreeing with him right?

How so?

 

[Vizzeh]

Yup, 7 billion transistors would've been a great feat.

nice edit.

 

[fastford58]

Why are people afraid that MS will moneyhat companies to make lower end PS4 ports? It doesn't make sense and I thought it was illegal anyway. It is some tinfoil hattery to think this way.

The consoles survive because game makers make games for them. Can you imagine if MS tried to strong arm Activision to make CoD inferior or par and then Activision said "F you. No CoD for xbone this rotation." You don't think Kotick wouldn't do that given his past of sticking his corporate peen into companies when they became unruly?

I think the big game companies could damage MS more than they could damage the game companies.

If anything, given that PS4 is purportedly easier to dev for, it would simply be a reversal of the 360/PS3 multiplat situation we have this gen.

 

[vpance]

Bit of an exaggeration there lol - using a websearch, with probably no reliability but the eSRAM is 32MB of 6T SRAM with 9-bits per byte for ECC that'd be 1.8b transistors.

My passing comment on the size of the ram was irrelevant to the reason me posting my Tiled resource 16mb file size streaming to eSRAM post.

You missed my ninja edit

Regardless, it's a pie in the sky thing anyways production wise for a console.

 

[travisbickle]

people here seem to think its going be like this.

PS4

Xbone

pixlexic, people on this forum are writing things down in a format that you then read and interpret.

Unless you can show me where somebody has actually written the difference will be similar to Wolfenstein DOS and PS2(?) then what is actually happening is you are interpreting words like "large" "big" "noticeable" to be that of the two images you have posted.

 

[DieH@rd]

So after 51 pages (on my little laptop screen) what I've got as the general "theme" for the thread is that the PS4 on paper has higher specs but (alleged) lot's of clever design will result in XB1 more or less matching it or even outperforming the PS4 base specs - and apparently the PS4 has no clever design to match since the assumption seems to be the PS4 will only perform to it's published specs whereas the XB1 will somehow outperform the published specs (at least according to those arguing this).

I'm struggling with the disconnect here TBH. I'm not doubting XB1 is pretty powerful and will support lots of nice 1080p games - but I really don't see a situation where it has all the magic extra stuff to combat the PS4 being a bit more powerful again.

It's like telling me MS made a car with a 1.0 litre engine and Sony made one with 1.5 litres but Sony made their car an upright rectangle with horrible aerodynamics and MS made their car slick and low to the ground - it just doesn't make sense Sony would be that stupid. Both consoles I'm sure are designed to take as much advantage of their specs as possible and if the PS4 base specs are somewhat better then this will be apparent in game visuals, etc. to some extent (varying by title/developer no doubt).

Like I say I don't doubt the XB1 will support clever tricks/programming to get the most out of it but why wouldn't the PS4? And if the PS4 is factually a bit more powerful why wouldn't the gap always be there even after optimization?

PS is not faster on paper. Is faster in reality. The only "clever tricks" MS has are their PR techniques. Matching of Xbone and PS4 will happen only if devs actively gimp PS4 version.

PS4 is undeniably faster, less complicated memory structure to work with, has better SDK for now [according to dev talk], and possibly less power hungry OS. Now we have to wait to see how 3rd party devs will react [1st year is always rocky], and how good will 1st party games preform.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Not that I want to go off topic, but he's referred to as 'T' in the ad.

Agreed, we shouldn't stray off topic. But one last thing. Who's head looks most like the one in the ad?

Also, it's tough to find images of the backs of CEO's heads.

 

[stryke]

people here seem to think its going be like this.

PS4

Xbone

The most stupid post I've read all day.

 

[Vizzeh]

You missed my ninja edit

Regardless, it's a pie in the sky thing anyways production wise for a console.

lol nah seen it

Yeah, Wasnt really sugguesting they should do it, was more interested in the 16mb Tiled resource page file that will likely be stored in the eSRAM that can STREAM data from a file as big as 10GB - the curiosity of the frame buffer file along side the 16mb Tiled resource file to fit in the 32mb and suggesting they should have went bigger was only a passing comment, that was probably not practical since they didnt do it

 

[Josman]

Nobody thinks the difference is that big ^ however, a better framerate, Image Quality, some physics and effects are a pretty good reason not to buy the inferior, more expensive console.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

I don't think that is what anybody thinks. People just think that the difference will clearly be visible and show even more so over the years and that there is simply no reason to buy an inferior console for more money except a potential good Halo game in 1 or 2 years.

See how desperate MS is when they are showing a somewhat generic Halo themed CGI teaser because there is not much more to get people hyped.

Let's be fair: Microsoft showed TitanFall, which is probably the single most hyped and desired next gen game so far. The lines at PAX were insane for that game and dwarfed all others (based on what I read, I should add. I wasn't there).

They have plenty to get folks excited.

 

[i-Lo]

It's funny when some folks here try to pass off tangible performance difference as described by devs to be on paper" or theoretical.

Anyway, at least one thing is conclusively certain: The days of inferior ports (between consoles) will come to an end with PS4.

Also, given that now both sony and ms will charge for online play, the number of people willing to put down money to buy both consoles will change.

 

[PG2G]

How so?

He is saying games are the deciding factor when it comes to picking a console
You are saying that you're interested in multiplats so the games are equal

If the games are equal to you, it makes perfect sense to purchased based on other factors (price, power, availability, non-gaming features etc)

 

[Finalizer]

people here seem to think its going be like this.

PS4

Xbone

Nononono, the difference is more like:

PS4

Xbone

4reel guise

 

[Chobel]

He is saying games are the deciding factor when it comes to picking a console
You are saying that you're interested in multiplats so the games are equal

If the games are equal to you, it makes perfect sense to purchased based on other factors (price, power, availability, non-gaming features etc)

Fair enough.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

I'm curious how long it will take (if ever) for a game to appear on PS4 that makes me think "Wow, this could never be done on Xbone."

 

[StaSeb]

I find it most interesting, how intense this whole PS4_vs_XBO-debate is going on here on GAF, especially around technical aspects. Because in the end tha games are important and both consoles aren't out yet. So everything is just speculation/rumours/wishful thinking/theorycrafting.

But still: It is fucking interesting and kind of satisfying to read about the tec-differences and to speculate about fps- and resolution-differences. I love the "console wars" for all the hyperbole. And I like to think about, why people go crazy about all that. Bostering-effect (sorry, could not find a good english link to it quickly - but mainly it says: People seek out information about a product, that reinforces their already held believes about it) and buyers remorse are going on here... hard! And that is fascinating!

 

[DieH@rd]

So all of that is suppose to make the xbones cloud infrastructure not exist or mean anything?

No, its not anything. But it will not provide 4x increase of Xbone performance.

But, developers can build their own apps [dedicated servers, stats, distribution of AI routines [driveatars], etc), and send them to MS Azure network of servers, where they will be automatically distributed. Its a nice and useful feature, but it is not what MS PR was describing when they announced Xbone at that badly received entertainment media briefing and E3.

 

[cchum]

So if sony had the option:

upclock cpu
upclock gpu

Which would they choose? Would the GPGPU functionality or single thread performance be worthwhile?

A little off topic, but close enough

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

No, its not anything. But it will not provide 4x increase of Xbone performance.

But, developers can build their own apps [dedicated servers, stats, distribution of AI routines [driveatars], etc), and send them to MS Azure network of servers, where they will be automatically distributed. Its a nice and useful feature, but it is not what MS PR was describing when they announced Xbone at that badly received entertainment media briefing and E3.

Which is why I'm so glad they stopped insulting our intelligence and dropped that shit.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I find it most interesting, how intense this whole PS4_vs_XBO-debate is going on here on GAF, especially around technical aspects. Because in the end tha games are important and both consoles aren't out yet. So everything is just speculation/rumours/wishful thinking/theorycrafting.

But still: It is fucking interesting and kind of satisfying to read about the tec-differences and to speculate about fps- and resolution-differences. I love the "console wars" for all the hyperbole. And I like to think about, why people go crazy about all that. Bostering-effect (sorry, could not find a good english link to it quickly - but mainly it says: People seek out information about a product, that reinforces their already held believes about it) and buyers remorse are going on here... hard! And that is fascinating!

It's kind of weird to have buyer's remorse over a product you haven't bought yet.

 

[Vizzeh]

So if sony had the option:

upclock cpu
upclock gpu

Which would they choose? Would the GPGPU functionality or single thread performance be worthwhile?

A little off topic, but close enough

the upclock on the GPU I would suspect given its power with the amout of CU's would be a far bigger advantage, they obviously think the CPU is satisfactory when aligned with their vision of their GPU tasks. (altho we dont even know the CPU clock)

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

I find it most interesting, how intense this whole PS4_vs_XBO-debate is going on here on GAF, especially around technical aspects. Because in the end tha games are important and both consoles aren't out yet. So everything is just speculation/rumours/wishful thinking/theorycrafting.

But still: It is fucking interesting and kind of satisfying to read about the tec-differences and to speculate about fps- and resolution-differences. I love the "console wars" for all the hyperbole. And I like to think about, why people go crazy about all that. Bostering-effect (sorry, could not find a good english link to it quickly - but mainly it says: People seek out information about a product, that reinforces their already held believes about it) and buyers remorse are going on here... hard! And that is fascinating!

I think you might have found a good English link for bolstering effect if you looked up confirmation bias.

 

[Betta Lines]

I'm curious how long it will take (if ever) for a game to appear on PS4 that makes me think "Wow, this could never be done on Xbone."

I don't think it would be reasonable to ever say that. The hardware has reached a stage where doing something impressive will be down to the people involved, and the amount of time and effort that is dedicated to a certain aspect of the production.

It's all limited by time, money and talent.

 

[davidbloop]

I'm curious how long it will take (if ever) for a game to appear on PS4 that makes me think "Wow, this could never be done on Xbone."

For me that's happened with Second Son and Shadowfall..... but then again I know almost nothing about what Xbox One's potential actually is in reality.

 

[RoboPlato]

So if sony had the option:

upclock cpu
upclock gpu

Which would they choose? Would the GPGPU functionality or single thread performance be worthwhile?

A little off topic, but close enough

GPU all the way, especially since they're banking a lot on GPU compute. If they make any changes to the CPU I think it'll be more of getting the OS reserve down instead of upping the clocks.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

I don't think it would be reasonable to ever say that. The hardware has reached a stage where doing something impressive will be down to the people involved, and the amount of time and effort that is dedicated to a certain aspect of the production.

It's all limited by time, money and talent.

True, but you'd think with the hardware differences, some developer should be able to toss up so many lighting effects, particles, polygons, reflections, and all that jazz that it would make one think something similar could only ever be done on PC.