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[frizby]

Ya Bruh!! I got banned FOR A MONTH for "working too hard" when an article came out that was anti xbox one because the writer of said article said the then "always online" thing would prevent him from taking his xbox one to a cabin. I went a bit nuts at that and was banned. That ban assumed I was working for MS, when in reality, NONE of MS' policies bother me or will affect me in the slightest and I wanted to voice that opinion. NOPE!!, can't do that, I'm a shill. GAF is pro SONY, the mods support it, and could it be that some of the advertisers of this site are also pro SONY and the mods are directed to act accordingly? Oh, perish the thought! One of the running jokes about GAF is no one knows why or for what reason you can be banned. A mod having a bad day...BAN. Not politically correct...BAN! Pro MS posts...you get the idea.

Wow. This is parody right? Please tell me it's parody.

III. Moderation Policy

A. Moderation of NeoGAF is not by democracy. All decisions with regards to thread closure and movement, permanent and temporary bans, membership, and any other relevant issues are made by the NeoGAF administration alone and are final. That being said, constructive criticisms and suggestions are welcome, provided they are directed to NeoGAF Administration via e-mail, here. Do not dispute administrative policy or action within the forum itself.

 

[Mr Moose]

Ya Bruh!! I got banned FOR A MONTH for "working too hard" when an article came out that was anti xbox one because the writer of said article said the then "always online" thing would prevent him from taking his xbox one to a cabin. I went a bit nuts at that and was banned. That ban assumed I was working for MS, when in reality, NONE of MS' policies bother me or will affect me in the slightest and I wanted to voice that opinion. NOPE!!, can't do that, I'm a shill. GAF is pro SONY, the mods support it, and could it be that some of the advertisers of this site are also pro SONY and the mods are directed to act accordingly? Oh, perish the thought! One of the running jokes about GAF is no one knows why or for what reason you can be banned. A mod having a bad day...BAN. Not politically correct...BAN! Pro MS posts...you get the idea.

I think we are all pro gaming, you see PC gamers crashing threads all the time, are they pro Sony/MS?

We NEED both consoles to do well (even if one does quite a bit better than the other), a one Horse race (is that the correct term? I dunno, I've been drinking lol) isn't good.
Again, MS need to show their strength instead of trying to compete power wise with the PS4, it's not going to happen (smaller, cheaper AND more powerful?).

Oh wow, I said both consoles, Wii U counts, too, sorry

 

[USC-fan]

Ya Bruh!! I got banned FOR A MONTH for "working too hard" when an article came out that was anti xbox one because the writer of said article said the then "always online" thing would prevent him from taking his xbox one to a cabin. I went a bit nuts at that and was banned. That ban assumed I was working for MS, when in reality, NONE of MS' policies bother me or will affect me in the slightest and I wanted to voice that opinion. NOPE!!, can't do that, I'm a shill. GAF is pro SONY, the mods support it, and could it be that some of the advertisers of this site are also pro SONY and the mods are directed to act accordingly? Oh, perish the thought! One of the running jokes about GAF is no one knows why or for what reason you can be banned. A mod having a bad day...BAN. Not politically correct...BAN! Pro MS posts...you get the idea.

Gaf is very, very, simple. Dont post like this. Post on topic and just never post upset. Argue points with logic and admit when you are not correct. Do not try to be someone you're not.... insider, dev, programmer, really any kind of expert...

I have been on gaf since the x360 launch and never been banned or even PM by a mod other to change my name by my request. Funny that back then GAF was i guess pro MS! lol

People want to blame it on "baised" but it just comes down to MS havent done a good job and sony has this time.

MS made some big changes that has even the fight but it still not a fair fight right now.

I want to know what happens to the power gap if Sony magically decides to upclock in year 2 AND reduce GameOS GPU usage? They've made some major milestones on Vita, imagine what could happen with this.

Given both design the console to the same clock it seem amd believe this is the best spot for this hardware. Xbone box is very big compare to ps4 so it leads one to believe it should run cooler.

But anything is possible.

 

[Chobel]

Wow. This is parody right? Please tell me it's parody.

III. Moderation Policy

A. Moderation of NeoGAF is not by democracy. All decisions with regards to thread closure and movement, permanent and temporary bans, membership, and any other relevant issues are made by the NeoGAF administration alone and are final. That being said, constructive criticisms and suggestions are welcome, provided they are directed to NeoGAF Administration via e-mail, here. Do not dispute administrative policy or action within the forum itself.

Damn, do people really read this?

 

[Barzul]

I browse these threads and I'm just not seeing much wrong here. The way that a lot of threads skew one way or another seems to be based on legitimate reasoning.

If Cerny began making statements about the infinite power of Gaikai, or vague claims of a more 'balanced' system instead of actual specs or some such, I believe you'd see people rightly jump all over that.

Has Microsoft made them claim that their system is more balanced than the PS4?

"Yeah, I think that's right. In terms of getting the best possible combination of performance, memory size, power, the GDDR5 takes you into a little bit of an uncomfortable place," says Nick Baker.

Just like our friends we're based on the Sea Islands family. We've made quite a number of changes in different parts of the areas... The biggest thing in terms of the number of compute units, that's been something that's been very easy to focus on. It's like, hey, let's count up the number of CUs, count up the gigaflops and declare the winner based on that. My take on it is that when you buy a graphics card, do you go by the specs or do you actually run some benchmarks?

Sony was actually agreeing with us. They said that their system was balanced for 14 CUs. They used that term: balance. Balance is so important in terms of your actual efficient design. Their additional four CUs are very beneficial for their additional GPGPU work. We've actually taken a very different tack on that. The experiments we did showed that we had headroom on CUs as well. In terms of balance, we did index more in terms of CUs than needed so we have CU overhead. There is room for our titles to grow over time in terms of CU utilisation.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-the-xbox-one-architects

Those are the only spots I think the Xbox One architects have directly or indirectly referenced the PS4 architecture and I don't think they're suggesting their system is more balanced than Sony's. It seemed to me that they were simply talking about the balance of their architecture standing on it's own, which is not surprising. You got me on the cloud stuff I for one hope there is actual technology behind it to make it work, if not now then further into the generation, for now I'm just going to have a wait and see approach on that one.

 

[jayu26]

From the looks of it, you were banned for this...

This all sounds so dang similar to when the Wii came out and didn't have HD capabilities. People were pulling stats out of everywhere defending Nintendo because most of the world didn't have HD televisions etc. Now, people are doing the same, except to bash MS. All of a sudden, everyone has shitty internet. "What if, what if, what if?" Really, A FUCKING CABIN!!?? A FUCKING CABIN?!! Here's an idea, look at nature while you're in your log cabin. Spend time with your family while in your cabin. So he can't complete that oh so important level of Max Payne 3 in the "cabin" and it irks him. Yup, let's hold back technology because some can't get a solid connection. "But what about, but what about, but what about?" Nope, you all are right, let's make a system for black and white tv's, that supports vhs, and has an antenna on it. I can't wait to see this applauded when Sony does it. "But they already confirmed ....!!!!" Did they? Uh huh.

It is the rhetoric and not what you said which deserved the ban hammer. And from the looks of it you haven't learned your lesson.

Ya Bruh!! I got banned FOR A MONTH for "working too hard" when an article came out that was anti xbox one because the writer of said article said the then "always online" thing would prevent him from taking his xbox one to a cabin. I went a bit nuts at that and was banned. That ban assumed I was working for MS, when in reality, NONE of MS' policies bother me or will affect me in the slightest and I wanted to voice that opinion. NOPE!!, can't do that, I'm a shill. GAF is pro SONY, the mods support it, and could it be that some of the advertisers of this site are also pro SONY and the mods are directed to act accordingly? Oh, perish the thought! One of the running jokes about GAF is no one knows why or for what reason you can be banned. A mod having a bad day...BAN. Not politically correct...BAN! Pro MS posts...you get the idea.

 

[Hoje0308]

Damn, do people really read this?

I have, but that's because I've only been on here a short time and have seen a lot of people fall on their own sword in that time. Thought it best to acquaint myself with the rules, lest I get an angry PM from Sam Jackson.

 

[Barzul]

LOL. You would defend someone who writes articles defending Xbox through his Microsoft fanboyism over a architect designer for the PS4?

C'mon, you can't be serious.

My point was that some people are attacking Leadbetter because it's easy and he has a bias towards the Xbox and not the actual statements by Xbox One architects.

 

[qa_engineer]

+1 to the October body count. He fought well, gentlemen.

 

[frizby]

Damn, do people really read this?

It's quite short and almost entirely common sense, though I didn't know until today that language was a thing.

"TOS" button is at top of page.

 

[DSveno]

Ya Bruh!! I got banned FOR A MONTH for "working too hard" when an article came out that was anti xbox one because the writer of said article said the then "always online" thing would prevent him from taking his xbox one to a cabin. I went a bit nuts at that and was banned. That ban assumed I was working for MS, when in reality, NONE of MS' policies bother me or will affect me in the slightest and I wanted to voice that opinion. NOPE!!, can't do that, I'm a shill. GAF is pro SONY, the mods support it, and could it be that some of the advertisers of this site are also pro SONY and the mods are directed to act accordingly? Oh, perish the thought! One of the running jokes about GAF is no one knows why or for what reason you can be banned. A mod having a bad day...BAN. Not politically correct...BAN! Pro MS posts...you get the idea.

It's like the PC vs console threads doesn't exist, or all those Nintendo threads are just a dream.

You're just asking for it.

[edit]
Well, duh. That banhammer was faster than my fingers.

 

[vilmer_]

Ya Bruh!! I got banned FOR A MONTH for "working too hard" when an article came out that was anti xbox one because the writer of said article said the then "always online" thing would prevent him from taking his xbox one to a cabin. I went a bit nuts at that and was banned. That ban assumed I was working for MS, when in reality, NONE of MS' policies bother me or will affect me in the slightest and I wanted to voice that opinion. NOPE!!, can't do that, I'm a shill. GAF is pro SONY, the mods support it, and could it be that some of the advertisers of this site are also pro SONY and the mods are directed to act accordingly? Oh, perish the thought! One of the running jokes about GAF is no one knows why or for what reason you can be banned. A mod having a bad day...BAN. Not politically correct...BAN! Pro MS posts...you get the idea.

There's the door.

 

[Hoje0308]

My point was that some people are attacking Leadbetter because it's easy and he has a bias towards the Xbox and not the actual statements by Xbox One architects.

Well, the comments made by the architects are a topic of debate as well, if you hadn't noticed.

 

[bigboss370]

Ya Bruh!! I got banned FOR A MONTH for "working too hard" when an article came out that was anti xbox one because the writer of said article said the then "always online" thing would prevent him from taking his xbox one to a cabin. I went a bit nuts at that and was banned. That ban assumed I was working for MS, when in reality, NONE of MS' policies bother me or will affect me in the slightest and I wanted to voice that opinion. NOPE!!, can't do that, I'm a shill. GAF is pro SONY, the mods support it, and could it be that some of the advertisers of this site are also pro SONY and the mods are directed to act accordingly? Oh, perish the thought! One of the running jokes about GAF is no one knows why or for what reason you can be banned. A mod having a bad day...BAN. Not politically correct...BAN! Pro MS posts...you get the idea.

you said it yourself, you went nuts and got banned. the "working too hard" has nothing to do with accusing you of being a shill, you just lost your shit. also..the whole world is pro Sony/PS4, where you been?

its not bias, that implies favor has been unfairly awarded to one side.

Damn, do people really read this?

yes. I know I did.

 

[SeventhSon]

So that poster earlier really was a shill?

And BillyBats went home to get his shine box...

 

[Amir0x]

Haha, I love graveyard topics. I remember back in the day some threads were intentionally left open for a little while longer to let trolls hang themselves. And it worked all the time. Like moths to a flame

 

[Skeff]

My point was that some people are attacking Leadbetter because it's easy and he has a bias towards the Xbox and not the actual statements by Xbox One architects.

Microsoft are definitely comparing the two architectures, remember Penellos miracle equations where he pulled out comparisons with PS4? some were even unknown and some were just downright incorrect like saying xb1 has 3x the cache coherent bandwidth...

I know he's not an architect, but it certainly counts as Microsoft doing the comparison.

 

[Amir0x]

Microsoft are definitely comparing the two architectures, remember Penellos miracle equations where he pulled out comparisons with PS4? some where even unknown and some where just downright incorrect like saying xb1 has 3x the cache coherent bandwidth...

I know he's not an architect, but it certainly counts as Microsoft doing the comparison.

Major Nelson also synchronized the exact same talking points online around the same time as Penello. It was a concerted PR effort.

 

[fastford58]

Hey what's going in in he....

Oh shit.

 

[Barzul]

That's because Mark Cerny doesn't treat people like they are idiots? Every time he gets asked a question about the hardware he answers without talking about the competition.

We have had Microsoft PR try to convince people that the gap isn't significant and they delve into mental gymnastics to prove some sort of system balance. Of course they can't come out and concede to Sony but they should change the conversation to their games.

I think people at MS i.e. Penello truly do not believe the gap is as significant as is being suggested. Have to say, I'm looking forward to benchmarks of retail versions of both systems. I expect the PS4 to come out on top, just want to see by how much.

 

[qa_engineer]

Major Nelson also synchronized the exact same talking points online around the same time as Penello. It was a concerted PR effort.

If it was indeed a concerted effort they need to rethink their PR strategy or better yet their corporate communications/ PR personnel.

 

[Amir0x]

If it was indeed a concerted effort they need to rethink their PR strategy or better yet their corporate communications/ PR personnel.

I've been saying that for the last 5,289 Xbox One PR fuck ups, but for some reason I don't think they're listening! Call it a hunch!

 

[Night Angel]

I think people at MS i.e. Penello truly do not believe the gap is as significant as is being suggested. Have to say, I'm looking forward to benchmarks of retail versions of both systems. I expect the PS4 to come out on top, just want to see by how much.

Believing something based on feels and downplaying a competitor without complete information sure sounds like bias to me.

 

[fastford58]

Does Panello or Major even post anymore, or did Gaf run em out of town?

 

[Night Angel]

Does Panello or Major even post anymore, or did Gaf run em out of town?

They've been gone for a while. Must be hard to talk to people who don't like the taste of bullshit.

Still waiting for that AMA. It would be interesting to get some facts for a change. I'd also like to delve into WHY MS did what they did. (Waiting for the book haha.)

 

[KimonoNoNo]

I want to know what happens to the power gap if Sony magically decides to upclock in year 2 AND reduce GameOS GPU usage? They've made some major milestones on Vita, imagine what could happen with this.

I can only see a upclock happening if Sony engineers need some extra headroom for their VR display.

 

[RE_Player]

At this point it would be wise for them to keep quiet about the actual hardware. Focus on services and games.

 

[qa_engineer]

Does Panello or Major even post anymore, or did Gaf run em out of town?

There really isn't a need or point for them to be here. Last time penello posted it got out of control real quick. So many gaffers were calling out MS and their wizard jizz math.

 

[jayu26]

Believing something based on feels and downplaying a competitor without complete information sure sounds like bias to me.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Does Panello or Major even post anymore, or did Gaf run em out of town?

Nelson barely posted anyway and Once Penelo came out with "We invented Direct X/ Ill ask a techincal fellow" It was pretty hard for him to follow his "Average joe that just happens to be a MS exec" routine.


He still pops up though from time to time, to his credit.

 

[Barzul]

Believing something based on feels and downplaying a competitor without complete information sure sounds like bias to me.

I'd be worried if Penello wasn't biased towards the Xbox One. Now the problem is if that bias caused him to make inaccurate claims such as the one where he downplayed the 40% gap in performance between the Xbox One and PS4. But to me he clearly believes the gap is not that significant. I'll wait for the teardowns and benchmarks in November.

 

[fastford58]

There really isn't a need or point for them to be here. Last time penello posted it got out of control real quick. So many gaffers were calling out MS and their wizard jizz math.

Wizard jizz math. Hahaha!

 

[qa_engineer]

At this point it would be wise for them to keep quiet about the actual hardware. Focus on services and actual games.

Exactly go back to highlighting your games, kinect interaction, Xbox live, etc. Stop drawing attention to your specs because it isn't working.

god damnit, ms. Pay me 300k a year and I'll do all of your PR work.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

So that poster earlier really was a shill?

And BillyBats went home to get his shine box...

What poster? These threads move so fast.

 

[Mr Moose]

I think people at MS i.e. Penello truly do not believe the gap is as significant as is being suggested. Have to say, I'm looking forward to benchmarks of retail versions of both systems. I expect the PS4 to come out on top, just want to see by how much.

Didn't he say something like "There's no way we'd [MicroSoft] give Sony a 30% advantage"?

In this case, he wasn't lying, it's closer to 50%, right?

 

[BRocknRolla]

I'd be worried if Penello wasn't biased towards the Xbox One. Now the problem is if that bias caused him to make inaccurate claims such as the one where he downplayed the 40% gap in performance between the Xbox One and PS4. But to me he clearly believes the gap is not that significant. I'll wait for the teardowns and benchmarks in November.

Out of curiosity, how are these benchmarks done? Do you need dev kits for both systems to be able to run software like that?

 

[Cidd]

Why can't MS be like Nintendo?

Nintendo knows they're the weakest and they frankly don't give a shit and let their games do the talking. MS's need to make the Xbox One look superior is just making them come off desperate. They have so many other things they could be talking about like KINECT 2 they're trying to sell.

 

[KimonoNoNo]

What poster? These threads move so fast.

This one.

As a programmer and tech enthusiast, I'm much much more impressed/interested with what MS is doing with XB1 as a whole.

Talking about their system in depth isn't a way to "show" they're desperate or anything like that at all... Instead, they're being HONEST. Seriously, I hear less and less about PS4's technical features and that's just makes that boring to me lol. XB1 on the other hand... definitely some interesting tech going on in there. I wouldn't be surprised if XB1's overall gaming performance is similar to the PS4's with all the off-load co-processors and customized hardware. The only thing we know PS4 has more is TFLOPs, the amount of floating point it can churn though, but as for gaming performance... That's really hard to figure because it's complex stuff beyond numbers (well, not really, but it's beyond a COUPLE of NUMBERS. There's hundreds of factors.)

And no secret sauce. Just plain understanding of technology.

Well, that's just my opinion so don't take it seriously and try to eat me up.

 

[mbmonk]

There really isn't a need or point for them to be here. Last time penello posted it got out of control real quick. So many gaffers were calling out MS and their wizard jizz math.

That is the nice thing about GAF. MS Reps can't play hardball with posters here and blacklist people, refuse interview, cut off access, etc like they can with media outlets. When MS Reps come on GAF their argument has to stand based on it's merit.

 

[Mr Moose]

Out of curiosity, how are these benchmarks done? Do you need dev kits for both systems to be able to run software like that?

Similar specced computers as far as I am aware (RAM, CPU clock, GPU specs and so on).

Edit: And word of mouth seems to prove the specs, and MS first party aren't happy with what they are working with (drivers or something).

 

[travisbickle]

How low did MS think Sony would go if they've built a console with a 1.3 TFlop GPU and a 10% reserve for camera/OS functionality? They must have thought Sony had a 1TFlop GPU or something?

 

[Radec]

Whaaaat?

I know this horse has been beaten quite a bit already, and I'm just a lowly junior, but this post is a special kind of bad. My best translation of the nonsense above, and please correct me if I'm reading it wrong:

I love technology. I love it really complicated. It's more interesting that way. I don't care about the actual objective output of said technology because that's just numbers. I'm more interested in how complicated and difficult to explain it is. I can't explain beyond numbers, and numbers are so big anyway, so nevermind that. It's more of a feeling really, not about the objective application of technology to a given task, but rather "technology" as an abstract idea...and ideally from Microsoft.

This post is awesome and balanced.

 

[SeventhSon]

What poster? These threads move so fast.

This guy:

These guys? I'm a gamer, exactly like you. I do work in programming.. Look at my short (lol) history. The stuff I said in that Killzone thread is not BS or anything. And, I'm not saying PS4 is weaker or anything close to that... Just think the tech talks are interesting. I'll elaborate more when I get time maybe.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Similar specced computers as far as I am aware (RAM, CPU clock, GPU specs and so on).

So teardowns, and then comparisons? Is there still enough uncertainty about the consoles that people can't do that already? Also, isn't the unified 8gb memory pool on PS4 and xbox's esram fairly nonstandard as far as PCs go even if they are ultimately PC parts? Obviously that's just one part, but are these benchmarks actually reliable as PC builds?

 

[Mr Moose]

How low did MS think Sony would go if they've built a console with a 1.3 TFlop GPU and a 10% reserve for camera/OS functionality? They must have thought Sony had a 1TFlop GPU or something?

They were hoping for that 2 - 4 GB GDDR5 RAM

Then came the Sony announcement, then came the 180s, then came the Major Nelson saying he doesn't like the name Xbone, then came MS trolling him, registering the domain Xbone... Then came... well yeah you get it.

 

[Mr Moose]

So teardowns, and then comparisons? Is there still enough uncertainty about the consoles that people can't do that already? Also, isn't the unified 8gb memory pool on PS4 and xbox's esram fairly nonstandard as far as PCs go even if they are ultimately PC parts? Obviously that's just one part, but are these benchmarks actually reliable as PC builds?

I'm not a pro at this kind of stuff, but from what I am aware, they used similar graphics cards and computer specs, someone could come along and shit on my info, 'cause I don't really know

 

[WordsintheWater]

This GAF is pro Sony stuff is nonsense. If Sony were doing the same things Microsoft has it would be critical of the things Sony would say. Microsoft messed up from the very beginning, don't be mad at people being sour on the brand, Microsoft has only themselves to blame for the backlash.

 

[ethomaz]

How low did MS think Sony would go if they've built a console with a 1.3 TFlop GPU and a 10% reserve for camera/OS functionality? They must have thought Sony had a 1TFlop GPU or something?

They are betting they will have 4GB more RAM to compensate the GPU power.

 

[bishoptl]

That is the nice thing about GAF. MS Reps can't play hardball with posters here and blacklist people, refuse interview, cut off access, etc like they can with media outlets. When MS Reps come on GAF their argument has to stand based on it's merit.

And in case anyone thinks it's all one-way, I'll repost this from the last hardware thread trainwreck:

Are you kidding? I mean really - are you kidding?

This is part and parcel of the territory here. You have to answer for your statements, especially if you're here in an official capacity. People get banned for being out of line, but poking holes in the arguments of other posters is well within the rules.

I've had my work here both praised and eviscerated, called out by numerous forum folks both publicly and via PM when I got stuff wrong, and I'm a goddamn admin. Guess what - I wouldn't have it any other way. That is what makes NeoGAF what it is.

There are many, many people who are more than capable of assessing, vetting and debunking technical claims and they have every right to do so. That's the price of doing business here. If we had official Nintendo or Sony reps on board, they would be subject to the same process.

If you're scared, buy a dog.

 

[Imperfected]

This post is awesome and balanced.

I've been slogging through too much PR-speak: do you mean "balanced" as in "fair", or "balanced" as in "underpowered"?