NoirVisage
Banned
90% like his accuracy right? Clever. You're straight out of a comic book..fished from the bottom of the sea.
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HeLLKnight
Banned
I'm with you, developers aims for mass market. But maybe this time PCs will get more and better ports due to these pc-architectured new consoles. Devs will have to spent more money to make next-gen games, so they will want to port to every platform possible to recover investments. Then PC gaming could be more promiment than today.
The thing worries some of us is, how soon will get next-gen consoles outdated?
I know about how dumb is comparing just flops, but 5,6 Tflops on top PC GPU PC at same launch window than 1,8 and 1,3 Tflops consoles sounds too much raw difference. How much will be the difference on 2016? and how powerful will be the consoles comparing to the most common graphic card in steam monthly survey? Consoles are now at 28nm. Maybe manufacture process improvements will be slower now, but TSMC roadmap shows 16nm on 2014 and 10nm on 2016. Nvidia roadmap shows Vertical stacked RAM (1TB/s) around 2016. Powerful IPC 8 core cpus are around the corner.
So in just 3 years from now PCs will be way way more powerful, meanwhile consoles will struggle to get 60fps at 1080p. With some exception, PC ports will look worse than they should. One thing is create a PC game with video options from low to ultra and another is create a PC game from scratch with a powerful hardware base.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Lol, so basically Microsoft is saying "F*** YOU" to 1080p games and otherwise upholding a high standard of visual fidelity... all because they don't think it's important to sales? Basically, they don't care about the quality of the experience that the end-user will receive.
I highly doubt this notion that most people "don't care about 1080p." We're in an era where even an average prospective TV buyer is researching the pros and cons of a 4K display. I'm sure they would be able to distinguish and appreciate the difference between a 900p upscaled image, and a native 1:1 pixel 1080p image with no scaling. Said difference insofar as significant aliasing and level of clarity.
And your argument still doesn't explain why even 3rd-party developers are having trouble achieving 1080p on the Xbone version of multiplats (according to the recent EDGE article about the power difference between the two consoles). Is that a "deliberate design decision" also?
Black Republican
Member
MS really shoulda priced the console cheaper, its a shame cause i really like their launch line up better but $500 is too much
Just read the OP - It seems he is implying that 720p-900p will be the standard through the whole generation. I'm inclined to believe that we even get dynamic resolutions for a lot of games while having the HUD at 1080p. IMHO it is more important to have a stable framerate so I salute this kind of solution but in the end it's still a big disadvantage compared to PS4. Now that I'm not getting either console at launch I will watch the development in 2014.
TetraGenesis
Member
I don't know. I think things might be...different then.
Maybe streaming has something to do with it (gaming as a service), maybe VR, maybe the changing landscape with tablets and such, or maybe the Steam machines will make a big splash and really mix things up with their varied, upgradeable specs. Maybe something totally unexpected.
I don't know how but I just feel like the end of this next gen won't be as clean cut as previous ones.
Tales from my ass. Beta tested in the future.
N7Commander95
Member
The thread is like plate of honey for flies with bish is standing there with his flamethrower.
NoirVisage
Banned
Not unlike a table crafted from the finest cedar wood.
DoubleTake
Member
THIS. And its sooo beautiful
SwiftDeath
Member
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Bish: "We have far too many fools on Gaf and I need to thin them out."
CBOAT: "Will post shortly."
CBOAT: "Will post shortly."
NoirVisage
Banned
Oh wow.. so apt.Another one
RealityPales
Member
One of these days, someone is going to have to explain to me why resolution difference between 720p and 1080p (or anything in between) is such a big deal.
The Last of Us was 720p / 30FPS, was it not? And that looked INCREDIBLE. So, what's wrong with 900p / 30-60FPS.
It's still a step up from what we have now, isn't it?
I suppose what I'm trying to ask is, in laymans terms, what will this mean for multiplatform PS4 / XB1 games?
The Last of Us was 720p / 30FPS, was it not? And that looked INCREDIBLE. So, what's wrong with 900p / 30-60FPS.
It's still a step up from what we have now, isn't it?
I suppose what I'm trying to ask is, in laymans terms, what will this mean for multiplatform PS4 / XB1 games?
Mother of god.. what movie is that from?
polyh3dron
Banned
Yeah this is what bothers me. The XBone seems like its primary directive, above playing games, is consumer exploitation. In all honesty I don't really care about a company knowing what I'm watching and playing and making money off that information by targeting me with specific advertisements etc, but come on, don't make money off me with that shit and still charge me $50 a year to play online and charge me $100 more for your console than the more powerful PS4. That's just a fucking insult.My pet theory is the MS gave the approval for the Xbox 720 program late, and only with some serious strings attached.
What we know:
This isn't a game console, it's the culmination of Ballmer's vision for Microsoft:
- We know Microsoft is planning a cookie-alternative to track users across PCs, mobile and notable the Xbox
- Yusuf Mehdi let it slip that the goal is advertising unified across those devices
- This thing is built for apps, really gaming is almost just another app, like TV
- Kinect is mandatory, many of us have speculated that Kinect is the input to control these apps. It may even run modified Windows 8, or Windows Phone apps, using Kinect for controls of course
- On the flip side, Kinect for Business is being pitched as serious commercial product that can do everything from a glorified camera to a complete input device
None of these things require much hardware power, all of them (I am speculating) were forced on the Xbox One before serious design could even begin. It was always hamstrung, and it is the product of some serious horse trading behind the scenes.
- It expands the Windows 8/Windows Phone/Surface ecosystem (probably meant to save the latter two).
- It is an advertising goldmine and execs can't conceal their glee. Microsoft has been watching Google and Apple's advances here with palpable envy. 80M users (or 49M gold) would be a nice advantage.
- It is a new means of interacting with computers, using Kinect everywhere. So of course it is mandatory here. Dat business/consumer synergy. MS seriously believes your next computer might have Kinect as an alternate control scheme.
People are really going to be in for shaming when Sony actually revs up its studios. I find it hilarious that people somehow think the PS4 is not going to win the first party race or that their games are not going to look any different. SO many people with agendas saying their first party is weak or boring. You haven't even seen half of it yet lol. We need to have some of these discussions without the agendas in a year.
Just wanted to point out that casuals not caring/noticing about resolution may not be strictly true.
I agree that most of them know nothing about framerates, AA, V-Sync, IQ, Tearing (hell I know NOTHING about any of them myself except framerates), but with resolution it's a different story.
Many of them will have bought their own TVs, and therefore will have learned about 720p and 1080p (or HD-Ready and Full HD as they know it) either from a salesman or through their own research. I went through exactly this when buying my first HD telly back in 2006.
Spotting framerate drops and other graphical issues is easier when you know what to look for. You don't need to have been gaming since the NES days to tell when one image is 'sharper' than another. You just need decent eyesight.
I do concede that it won't make hardly any difference to the early adopters, but over the life of the console, it could turn out to be a pretty big deal.
I agree that most of them know nothing about framerates, AA, V-Sync, IQ, Tearing (hell I know NOTHING about any of them myself except framerates), but with resolution it's a different story.
Many of them will have bought their own TVs, and therefore will have learned about 720p and 1080p (or HD-Ready and Full HD as they know it) either from a salesman or through their own research. I went through exactly this when buying my first HD telly back in 2006.
Spotting framerate drops and other graphical issues is easier when you know what to look for. You don't need to have been gaming since the NES days to tell when one image is 'sharper' than another. You just need decent eyesight.
I do concede that it won't make hardly any difference to the early adopters, but over the life of the console, it could turn out to be a pretty big deal.
boredandlazy
Member
Another one
Imagine the meltdowns if Bish ever changed his avatar...
The difference is games can look even better and take full advantage of the HD medium they are in. You're right, The Last of Us looked great, but it can look even better.
As for multiplatform games for PS4/XB1, the PS4 will be receiving the better performing version--fps, resolution, effects wise.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Yes but The Last Of Us at 1080p / 60fps would look incredibler
Metalmurphy
Member
They'll look and perform better on PS4. It's just that simple.
Ofc the "perform" part will depend on wether they look the framerate or not.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
1080P seems like a unattainable Holy Grail for XB1.
If that were true, you wouldn't have the two most senior reputation managers at MS - Albert Penello & Major Nelson - post on GAF on at least a weekly basis, trying tonprove that the Xbone is as technically capable as the PS4.
MS have consistantly mis-judged how gamers would respond to their console, and they've been flip flopping, reversing and back tracking to try and win back lost ground. Some things - like hardware - can't just be chnaged with the flip a swicth, hence the recent mass campaign of PR and FUD to try to deminish the gulf between the Xbone and PS4.
Shit like sub-1080p does matter. The Xbone had an uphill battle as is, so whenever there is new fuel on the fire, MS man all pumps to try and put the flames out.
If they do really badly - and this will take a year or so to shake out - I think they'll either duck out completely, or short-shift and release Xbox 2 in a short timeframe to get the jump again. Something with stacked ram could let them leapfrog in performance, and they may be able to keep BC with Xbox one if get stay x86
Sapphire Dreams
Member
I think it's Red.
I just read a book on that The Race for a New Game Machine. The author who was the project lead at IBM at the time out-and-out says Bill Gates walked in and bought the tech Sony + Toshiba + IBM had been working on, and MS was pushed to the front of the line in terms of priority @ IBM. I'm sure more than a few people got fired in the Sony legal team over what went down.
Many here are PC gamers who have enjoyed crisp 1080p+ resolutions with insane fps for a long time. It benefits everyone to bring up the lowest common denominator (consoles). Many people are also disappointed that a new generation isn't bringing with it something that was technically achievable for some games in the current generation.
I am not bothered by 720p and 30 fps. It doesn't ruin my enjoyment of games. However, I do hope that with the investment in a new generation of consoles we would be seeing better resolutions with higher FPS. Why? Because why not. That is the natural progression of the hobby that brings all to this site.
900p can of course look good (see Ryse). But after 8 years people expect more from a next-gen machine and it seems that these expectations can only be fulfilled by the PS4 so far which is also way cheaper. If you are fine with 720p/900p, like the exclusives and feel that Kinect is worth the extra 100 bucks, go for the X1. If you want better multiplats, also like the exclusives, don't need Kinect and want most bang for your bucks, go for the PS4.
I think there reveal of the console shows they werent ready yet and sony took them by surprise. The fact we have had 6 months or so of what the hardware did without explaining how it all worked for it then all to be scraped imho is down to the fact they didnt know themselves how it was going to work at that point rather than just backlash changing the system. 2014 as cboat says is the original aim but sony fucked it all up.
I just cannot understand some people. I realize that some don't care but it was easy peasy to tell the difference between 640p and 720p last gen. 640p looked so bad I wanted to vomit on every game around that resolution. It is a step up for sure. But you are comparing a standard set 8 years ago man. Times have changed dude. A lot of us have PCs and can barely stand to look at last gen IQ anymore. Sorry, truth is truth. While being okay 900p is just another half-baked remedy to cover up the fact the console is weak. Scaling is a terrible thing.
The Last of Us looked incredible to people that simply haven't seen anything better. It will look MUCH MUCH better in its 1080p incarnation which is almost a given. It also ran like complete pooh. I guess some people just need to park themselves in front of a 40 inch plus screen at 1080p to realize what you are missing. And if you still don't care you are either lying to yourself or you have some strange standards. Our TV's are 1080p. It's time we leave scaling in the past. Enough with the excuses. 900p is NOT good enough. And if you think it is good enough for the entire gen I don't even know why people care about getting a new gen.
TetraGenesis
Member
It means that if they really want to target 900p on both versions, a developer can choose instead to pump up the effects and post-processing of the PS4 version.
Some people try to downplay the advantage (in clarity) of 1080p, but no matter how you swing it, it's just a way of quantifying the PS4's power advantage. PS4 has the luxury of hitting a 1080p resolution without developers sacrificing the visual quality and performance of the game if they so choose, which will become very important when they start their big VR push next year.
I don't know how this can be a surprise to anyone, look at Microsoft's track record:
Windows Mobile 7 - to be fixed with 7.5 and 8
Surface RT - to be fixed with Surface Pro and 2
Windows 8 - to be fixed with 8.1
Kinect - to be fixed with Kinect 2
Xbox One is just the next in the long line of Microsoft products shipped out to customers before ready.
Windows Mobile 7 - to be fixed with 7.5 and 8
Surface RT - to be fixed with Surface Pro and 2
Windows 8 - to be fixed with 8.1
Kinect - to be fixed with Kinect 2
Xbox One is just the next in the long line of Microsoft products shipped out to customers before ready.
The improvement isn't big enough to warrant a console upgrade. It was bad enough that there were many games this gen that were running in sub 720p resolutions. In the upcoming console generation each and every single game should run in 1080p. No exceptions.
Another thing: it's spelled layman's terms.
TheListener
Member
You are working overtime these days.
Almost right, just googled it and it's from a Bollywood movie called "Singham". They copied that scene from Red
Thanks for the tip!
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Well, that toast is in the bin ...
I think it's Singham
RealityPales
Member
Thanks guys! But won't developers just make a shittier PS4 version of multiplatform games to have parity? I feel like SCE's worldwide studios will be the only ones to take advantage of the hardware.
Im pretty sure titanfall is 1080p 60 fps so thats something
I won't be so sure.
http://pixelenemy.com/respawn-on-titanfall-being-1080p-on-xbox-one-well-see-frame-rate-is-king/
Lol, sorry about that!
Another one
Hahaha DEAD Xp
TetraGenesis
Member
To, like, Bill Cosby or Mr. Rogers, something totally innocuous. Hahaha. People wouldn't know how to feel as all the ban gifs are updated to feature a charming, smiling face instead of the steely, burning gaze of Sam Jackson.
Hahahaha, oh man that would be something.
IchigoSharingan
Member
This is cboat you're talking about. Be skeptical sure, but don't be out of your wits either.
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