The service was pretty much always terrible in Europe before the update.
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Twitch.tv update imposes delay up to 60s in streams, viewer interaction impacted
- Thread starter FallingEdge
- Start date
The service was pretty much always terrible in Europe before the update.
Yeah, i can watch on Source again in Europe. They upgraded their Amsterdam PoP and added a new one in Prague so that must have helped too.
mysteriousmage09
Member
This is fucking stupid, if I watch a stream, I expect the interaction between others to be as they happen, if I don't want any interaction, i'll watch the fucking video recording.
Dreams-Visions
Member
SteamPipe?
Already taken by Valve archiving games in VPKs instead of GCFs.
Passive Assassin
Member
mr jared pls. fishstix pls.
aspiegamer
Member
I'd love to hear their logic behind this. Not the PR speak or obvious smokescreen language anyone familiar with streaming can pick up. Actually. You know, I might almost believe them.
This means less people will broadcast and less viewers as the enjoyment is gone for some channels. Less people = less ads. Less ads = less money. It's a change where they are deliberately biting the hand that feeds without an epically large library like YouTube offers people beyond some gaming things. Surely they cannot be that incredibly stupid. There must be something larger going on behind the scenes because none of this adds up even in the backwards "well this is how gaming video content will work from now on" sort of way we've been experiencing lately. Weird stuff has been going on at Twitch lately.
This means less people will broadcast and less viewers as the enjoyment is gone for some channels. Less people = less ads. Less ads = less money. It's a change where they are deliberately biting the hand that feeds without an epically large library like YouTube offers people beyond some gaming things. Surely they cannot be that incredibly stupid. There must be something larger going on behind the scenes because none of this adds up even in the backwards "well this is how gaming video content will work from now on" sort of way we've been experiencing lately. Weird stuff has been going on at Twitch lately.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
im guessing this change leads to lower bandwidth costs so they bleed money less quickly.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I don't think it's a smart move, but I also have no idea how much it costs to run their operation.
This is a pretty clear trend, though. When they consolidated their two different streaming methods for desktop and mobile into one, there was an improvement in stability for mobile at a noticeable cost in quality for desktop. Gotta cut corners to stay afloat. This is a corner I'd rather not see cut, though.
I'd rather be limited to 360p with a live chat than 720p with a delay.
This is a pretty clear trend, though. When they consolidated their two different streaming methods for desktop and mobile into one, there was an improvement in stability for mobile at a noticeable cost in quality for desktop. Gotta cut corners to stay afloat. This is a corner I'd rather not see cut, though.
Yeah, no. I've already sunk ~$2000 into my setup over the years plus an Xsplit subscription (that I can hopefully dump once OBS actually implements better local archiving options).
I'd rather be limited to 360p with a live chat than 720p with a delay.
The fundamental problem here is that, no, it doesn't. They will only keep growing, especially thanks to PS4/Xbone streaming, and the complaints will do nothing, especially since most of the complainers will keep using Twitch because they want to stream and every alternative sucks, too.
I just love how the new system makes videos pause to buffer when they are using less than half my bandwidth /s
?
Earlier I was watching a stream where the streamer had guests commentating through Skype or whatever. It was really awkward because whenever something interesting happened in the game, the streamer was like "Woah, hahaha!!" and his guests had no idea what he was reacting to until like half a minute later.
This news post is full of somewhat-hyperbolic negativity and says nothing of the benefits the move to HLS brings.
A few things:
- Delay is actively being worked on and has already been reduced to 10-20 seconds for the large majority of streams. Staff knew this would be a problem and even explained it on the blog before the switch:
Like anything else, there will be growing pains and the experience can vary dramatically from one viewer to the next, but don't think Twitch staff aren't going to keep cracking away at this. And none of this is a guarantee that the delay will be dramatically improved over time, so don't let any of the above stop you from complaining. I just wanted to bring some reasoned explanation for the changes into the discussion.
Expect a blog post soon to better explain the situation @ http://blog.twitch.tv/
EDIT: My time-table for events was off. It's late for me. Mistakes were made.
A few things:
- Delay is actively being worked on and has already been reduced to 10-20 seconds for the large majority of streams. Staff knew this would be a problem and even explained it on the blog before the switch:
- HLS on the website means transcodes for unpartnered streams. Before only partners got transcodes on the website. Now, if you were previously viewable on other plats(iOS, android, Xbox360, etc...) without partnership-granted transcodes, you now get transcodes on the website as well.
- HLS will lead to DVR-like functionality in the near-future, ie the ability to rewind a live broadcast.
Like anything else, there will be growing pains and the experience can vary dramatically from one viewer to the next, but don't think Twitch staff aren't going to keep cracking away at this. And none of this is a guarantee that the delay will be dramatically improved over time, so don't let any of the above stop you from complaining. I just wanted to bring some reasoned explanation for the changes into the discussion.
Expect a blog post soon to better explain the situation @ http://blog.twitch.tv/
EDIT: My time-table for events was off. It's late for me. Mistakes were made.
Kibbles
Member
Ustream starts with an ad and while you are watching a stream it will have commercial breaks where you miss the stream in order to watch an ad. Ustream is terrible.
TheAbsolution
Member
Thanks for the explanation. A little communication goes a long way around here.
OT: Whatever happened to the NeoGaf Twitch Team? Why'd it never get created?
Thanks for the explanation. A little communication goes a long way around here.
Just to be clear, I don't speak for Twitch in any official capacity. I simply wanted to be sure people were aware of the benefits for this new system, and that these changes were not made to purposefully harm the viewing experience.
As for the GAF Twitch team, EviLore hasn't responded to my last PM. I'll bug him again early Jan, when I'm not so busy. I haven't given up!
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
With XSplit, I can stream at a lower quality to compensate for lower bandwidth, while saving very high-quality videos for local archiving and Youtube purposes at the same time. I'll often stream 480p @ 1-2mbps while recording 720p @ over 100mbps, for example, and then use the 720p files for post-production and Youtube.
With OBS, I have to use the same settings for both. So I'm basically always limited to 2mbps at the very most.
I've been flipping back and forth between both of them lately because OBS seems to handle 60fps streaming better, but it's irritating either way.
Not only them. Even Twitch TV admins, who are streaming, are saying, that it's not acceptable. People can't interact with viewers "live" anymore and I know some casters, that left Twitch for that reason. They are not casters with a huge viewerbase, but they still get a good amount of viewers and their voices should be heared, too.
I don't like the new HLS encoding either. When it buffers for me and it doesn't buffer for other people, I always get spoilered, what happened on the stream and that takes away a huge factor from enjoying the show.
Also, the mobile iOS Twitch app is now on par with the website version, because of the delay. The mobile app is pretty good now and I don't have lag or buffering at all.
I'm telling the monsters on you
I can't believe I read this, I should have know better than clicking the view post. I mean, it's not like this change defeats the purpose of live entertainment.
OBS + Nvidia ShadowPlay, I just tested it and it works (that is if you are playing PC games and have one of the Nvidia cards that supports ShadowPlay).
Even captures game+mic audio on both.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I only stream console games, and I have a budget video card (but a more than capable CPU and hard disk array for handling huge video files).
soundscream
Member
4th paragraph in the op
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Had a 25s delay interacting with some streamers ingame. Pretty sad.
Ahh.
Well, I guess you could screen capture the preview of a copy of OBS that is being feed the capture card (and recording at the high bitrate and res) with an other copy of OBS that encodes the stream for you, but I have no idea how good that would work.
Hamster Plugin
Member
Salty Bet already had problems a week ago and it was fixed by putting a delay on the betting site itself. Considering the nature of the site, this can be a problem as people are betting their fake money on things happening as they are already happening.
There are paid subscriptions.
Anything that makes a service or product worse from consumer perspective is apparently "anti-consumer".
SJRB
Gold Member
Entitlement has nothing to do with it when there are paid subscriptions involved.
From every subscriber any broadcaster gets, 50% of the earnings go straight to Twitch.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Yeah, it's so sad that half of it goes to twitch. I'd rather just send them a money order cheque. Screw the "subscriber perks". They don't even matter anyway.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Well, yes. That is the base definition of the term. And as is pointed out many streams are subscriber based.
Subscriptions are essentially donations to the streamer. As for the word, it is ill-defined and should be used to describe things that are more directly designed to harm the interests of the consumer. This is just twitch trying to cope with their increased traffic and due to the way their subscriptions work, it does not screw over any current subscribers - they can just cancel their subscriptions and continue or stop watching.
They were not even buying adverts, they were just selling them on behalf of twitch, a deal that has since expired. Any timing is coincidence, unless you think more revenue some how caused the change?
I know this is the internet but there is no shame in admitting you were mistaken.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Subscriptions vary depending on who is streaming. As for the word, you can say it's ill-defined, but your definition is just as vague and subjective as any other. The point is that every time somebody mentions not liking a change in service or a product, no matter how big or small, or how heavy the complaint is, there is always, without fail, some jackass that has to run in and scream 'ENTITLEMENT.' As if customers are not allowed to voice anything resembling a negative opinion about anything. It's overdone, useless and 100 percent of the time the result of a lazy, sycophantic view of the customer-provider relationship.
You are absolutely entitled to complain about the decision, I just don't think that this should be labeled as "anti-consumer", but rather just something that makes the service worse.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I also don't think it's exactly anti-consumer, but I think if I was a streamer living off the proceeds and/or somebody who had subscriptions (I had to drop the one I followed due to a move) then I might feel different. I mean, is it Microsoft selling your data to the NSA levels of anti-consumerism? Nah.
Senor Kami
Banned
This needed to be done. Twitch is absolute shit depending on where you live. I can have 3 or 4 max quality 1080p Netflix streams going while Twitch struggles to even give me a single 480 without lagging and dropping the video. If this brings the streams up to acceptable quality levels, bring it on. Only a tiny minority of viewers chat, out of that a large chunk (not the majority though) are dicks or completely off-topic. Of the decent folk, it's rare that they say anything that simply must be seen by the player, right then or the stream isn't worth watching.
LOL @ calling this anti-consumer. You guys have taken away all meaning and importance from that word and reduced it to meaning, "something I don't like."
LOL @ calling this anti-consumer. You guys have taken away all meaning and importance from that word and reduced it to meaning, "something I don't like."
nephilimdj
Member
Seems like Twitch can do no right lately
That is kinda the definition of anti-consumer. Pro-consumer is making it better.
That Wont Fit In There
Member
Dang. Just when I was starting to get a nice following. I noticed this a lot with and without the PS4 streaming.
Only if you slap those two words together and ignore the actual context when the word has typically been used