notworksafe
Member
so it seems the answer is "No", at least on neogaf.
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"Can We Take a Joke?" - North American Trailer
- Thread starter BatDan
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stufte
Member
When any joke that even remotely pokes fun at a woman or minority is labeled as sexist or racist, that's a bad thing.
They bring up free speech in the trailer, even if it's not the basis of the premise.
ScatheZombie
Member
If you'd have watched the trailer, there's several instances noted of comedians getting arrested, physically attacked, and publicly harassed by people 'outraged' at their jokes.
The film isn't about stereotypical criticism of comedy. It's about how severe, focused and organized that criticism has become in the internet/outrage culture age. There's a huge difference between people getting offended by the content of your jokes - and people getting so offended they run up on stage and punch you in the face, call the police, or call you "Black Hitler". The movie clearly appears to be focusing on the latter - which is definitely a problem that's grown significantly worse in the past 10 or so years.
entremet
Member
Which joke are we talking about?
Seinfeld complained about this stuff and he's as tame as can be.
These strawmen of racist, homophobic, sexist jokes is missing the point here. That's not the issue. It's jokes taken out of context mostly.
lightskintwin
Banned
I kinda agree, plus it needed much wider breath of comedians such as Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, Jerry Seinfeld, Louis CK, Bill Burr, Dave Chappelle, Aries Spears, etc...
Father_Brain
Banned
Cry me a fuckin' river.
There are overly sensitive PC leftists out there, yes, but people who demonize any criticism of art on grounds of perceived racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia/etc. as a call for censorship - whose first response to such criticism is "stop whining and grow a thicker skin" - are a much greater problem.
There are overly sensitive PC leftists out there, yes, but people who demonize any criticism of art on grounds of perceived racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia/etc. as a call for censorship - whose first response to such criticism is "stop whining and grow a thicker skin" - are a much greater problem.
no, i get that. and maybe being ignorant here is gonna make me look stupid. but are instances of people attacking comedians, because of a joke seriously, all that common? or has it happened a few times? i wouldnt be surprised if they used the footage of the only times it's ever happened in this trailer
TheGamingBox
Banned
well if its is a joke with no bad intentions than thats fine,i didnt realize this was mostly about stand up comedy until after i made the comment
ldcommando
Banned
this looks pretty good, will watch
Steve Youngblood
Member
My issue with this sentiment is that it often comes across as comically hypocritical and demonstrates a complete lack of self-awareness. The crux of the issue is that "people are just too damn sensitive these days!" And in whining about that, it carries with it the same sort of oversensitivity that you're decrying the opposition of being guilty of. If the issue really is something where some namby pampy Social Justice Warrior is getting outraged for the umpteenth time and making a mountain out of a molehill, maybe the most productive thing to do is to simply ignore it and move on and focus on appealing to your fans instead of throwing fuel on the fire and creating a bigger divide?
Criticism also isn't free from criticism.
entremet
Member
Stand up is the focus of this project. It's in the OP man lol.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
"I'm mad that they are mad" is truly delicious irony of the modern age
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Wasn't too long ago when Howard Stern was offensive, and people tried to shut him up.
notworksafe
Member
and when those detractors are attacking the comedians or lobbying venues to cancel shows, then what?
"i'm mad that people are calling to attention that some of my jokes might not be cool(or even funny, sometimes) and coming to terms with that fact, even though i don't want to admit it to myself, makes me lash out"
At this point the outrage over outrage culture seems to be the louder voice, and all this movie does is add to that fire. Almost every documentary has an inherent bias towards its subject matter, but I don't see this movie challenging the views of people that get offended at what these comedians say. It's probably just going to be an echo chamber for these comedians to lash out against certain groups of people. Not my jam.
A resounding one at that.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
It's harder to ignore if your career is being affected by the nonstop outrage machine. People lose their jobs for dumb jokes on Twitter. Comedians are apologizing for jokes constantly, when it's their job to make stupid jokes that might cause offense.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I've been subjected to Adam Carolla for decades. I'm not flying blind here.
Inferno313
Banned
Right. There are a ton of comedians who do good work, have large followings, and don't receive the same kind of backlash that folks like Carolla do. Yet, none of them are featured here.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Attacking them how? Have these lobbying efforts been successful? Have any venues expressed disappointment that a show that would have otherwise sold well and been profitable and generated solid revenue for both the club and the performer have had to be canceled for no other reason than placating an angry mob? I'm not unwilling to hear counterpoints here, but I'm interested in specific examples of this happening.
ScatheZombie
Member
I would imagine considering how many completely different comedians (across the entire spectrum of comedy, new comedians, old comedians, shock comedians, dry humor comedians, etc.) have been echoing the same sentiment for the past couple of years that it's probably something that's happening a lot more frequently than it used to.
My guess is that it's a result of the internet making everything you've ever done or said available to everyone at any time. If you told a bad joke 15 years ago, it was pretty much limited to the audience at hand. They might get offended or pissed off, but that was the end of it. They just didn't come to your next show. Now, that bad joke is broadcast to the whole world. Everyone can get offended by it, and watch it, over and over, getting more and more upset until someone eventually boils over and does/says something stupid. You have to be on point 24/7 now. You can't make a little fuck-up here or there and have it go largely ignored. One fuck-up can completely ruin your career.
And I don't think comedians have adjusted well to this new dynamic.
But I honestly have no idea.
Criticism without self-awareness or tact doesn't hold much weight. Screaming "faux outrage" is as ignorant as you can get.
Comedians need to buy a protractor to make sure their jokes punch sufficiently upward.
notworksafe
Member
Did you watch the trailer? I thought it was at least required to watch the video in the OP before responding around here.
And some of those comedians are willing to grow. Like Louis CK with the 'faggy' joke that he even addressed on his own show.
I'm offended that comedians are offended that easily offended millenials are offended.
Also, here's a good video that covers the same subject but from the opposite perspective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufz4W0puLPA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufz4W0puLPA
That goes both ways, that's how opinions and free speech go. I'm talking in general terms of course, not about this documentary.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
He was ok then.
He's steadily gotten more angry since. He's also been wedging himself further up his own ass.
freeofgreed
Member
What is the solution then? Should the people who do have greviences towards these "jokes" just shut up and not say anything? Seems a bit hypocritical then.
Comedians have every right to make whatever jokes they want, and people have every right to criticize them.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
The saying is 'take a joke' so they should learn to do that.
how is losing jobs because people are offended by your jokes any different than losing jobs because you're not funny?
people dont find the jokes funny. in this case its because they find them offensive
you're a comedian. if there's not a big enough audience for your shitty fucking jokes, that sucks for you doesn't it?
people dont find the jokes funny. in this case its because they find them offensive
you're a comedian. if there's not a big enough audience for your shitty fucking jokes, that sucks for you doesn't it?
Steve Youngblood
Member
There's a quick seconds-long shot of a couple of people storming a stage with no context, the guy talking about being called black Hitler, and Penn talking about Lenny Bruce being arrested. Yes, I watched the trailer, but there isn't a lot of context for the specifics here. I'm not trying to be Mr. Big Shot and seem like I'm imposing threats that I'm about to throw you out (as I'm sure you don't care anyway), but could you maybe give me credit for trying to post in good faith and reply earnestly instead of just offering snark?
freeofgreed
Member
Not everyone is the same. If someone takes legitmate offense at at something then they have every right to voice it. Freedom of speech works both ways. It doesn't mean you need to legitimize it or even acknowledge it, but they still have every right to make it.
Almost all of those comedians have made comments about "PC" audiences at some point. Both Rock and Seinfeld basically have said colleges aren't worth doing anymore. And Burr and Chapelle have definitely received backlash for offensive jokes/comments.
And the only reason Murphy never received any backlash is because he operated in the 80's. He said plenty of things that would get him boycotted today.
freeofgreed
Member
Exactly.
TheSlySoul
Member
I do not mind humor that is light hearted and funny. However, if the joke is based on a negative connotation then yes it is an issue.
As a white guy, I still laugh at the white guy dancing jokes.
As a general rule I hate comedy that is based on being cruel to people. Steven Universe and Gumball do it right with humor that is just you laugh because of how odd it is.
I will give them Penn, but he is more a magician than a comedian.
Let's be honest, we only liked Gilbert Godfrey for his voice. His material sucks.
I hope an issue they bring up, and they did show a very brief screen grap of it in there, is stuff like the #CancelColbert incident and how this apparent "Outrage" culture sometimes gets it really wrong and their reactions are beginning to go from vocal criticism to being extremely hateful and threatening, if not violent as per some of their clips seem to show. This is something that goes well beyond just comedians, but pretty much all of internet culture. The level of response that wrong doings, or perceived wrong doings, might obtain can often be beyond proportion.
This is hopefully more an examination of the past, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, etc. and how limited comedians once were by the law, or there abouts, and fears that today's culture is trying to guard itself so much from things they don't like to hear or see and that will lead to a public that once again allows for actual, or just shy of, legal limitations on what people can say for the good of us all.
There are plenty of tasteless comedians that are willfully ignorant of the things they say and joke about and how it affects others, but I think stuff like this is popping up for a better reason than just privileged, generally white male, or female, comedians who are getting called out on their lazy and objectively insensitive/offensive material, but because their is a real feeling that people are always on edge and on guard waiting for someone to say something they dislike or are offended by.
But then again looking at the line up of comedians they have billed for this doc it's not exactly a sterling cast of comics who are known for the nuanced jokes. It's mostly shock comics, but maybe that's the point.
Extra Sauce
Member
Adam Carolla is the worst person they could use to examine this issue because his "jokes" come from a genuine place of misogyny.
stufte
Member
I know every one of those names. Many people do. Is that not notable?
Steve Youngblood
Member
I think #CancelColbert is an example of people getting it wrong, but Colbert's reaction was actually a good case study in how to react to it. He could have easily have undid a lot of good will he earned over the years by being caught off guard at this criticism and becoming overly defensive. But he kept his cool, calmed the angry fans who were lashing out at #CancelColbert, and it all blew over.
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