MythicReclaimer
Member
There was quite a few times during my playthrough of BotW that I thought Fable would fit nicely in the same open-world survival structured type gameplay and even the setting sometimes.
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What is a possible Microsoft answer to Horizon Zero Dawn and Breath of the Wild?
- Thread starter FStubbs
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There was quite a few times during my playthrough of BotW that I thought Fable would fit nicely in the same open-world survival structured type gameplay and even the setting sometimes.
HeisenbergWW62
Banned
The question isn't "where is Microsoft's answer to Horizon and Zelda" but "where is Microsoft's new IP that knocks everyone's socks off this gen". With the OG Xbox they had Halo, 360 they had Gears of War. Weather you like these series or not they both have inked their place in gaming history and more importantly, got people to buy and Xbox. Microsoft still hasn't had a new IP this generation that has really been big beyond the core Xbox fanbase.
Right now you see both Microsoft and Sony moving their first (and second) party efforts to meet their strengths, single-player story driven games for Sony and multi-player focused service games for Microsoft, because their efforts in dabbling in each other's strength's just haven't resulted in much success (Killzone/Resistance for Sony, Remedy partnership for Microsoft). The issue is that while there are a decent number of big third party single player games, a lot of the big third party publishers are also moving towards games-as-a-service model.
Halo and Gears were at peak popularity around the same time that Call of Duty and Battlefield initially started their explosions into popularity. There were fewer options in the multiplayer field, making the Xbox 360 the go-to console for people who wanted to get great multi-player experiences. While COD and Battlefield were big, there were far fewer games in that field that Halo and Gears had to compete with.
COD and Battlefield's immense popularity carried over to this gen, and this gen has brought new IP's like Destiny, Overwatch, The Division, and For Honor. All hugely successful multiplayer games. Even Titanfall, despite not finding as much success, still exists as another option for people looking for multi-player games. Combine this with Battlefront, Rainbow Six, and Ghost Recon all coming out with hugely successful new entires and there's now way more options for multi-player fans than there were 10 years ago when Halo and Gears were the talk of the town, and all these are available on PS4 also.
Because of this, multi-player fans no longer feel the need to buy an Xbox to get these experiences, there's plenty of them on PS4. Coupled with Sony's marketing deals/bundles with games like Destiny, Battlefront, and COD and Xbox is no longer the "go-to" console for multiplayer games. This benefits Sony because they no longer feel compelled to try to find the next big multi-player hit, hence they are free to build on their strengths. It hurts Microsoft because their games have to compete for players with all these other multi-player games, and they're just never going to.
As a result of all this Microsoft is in a tough spot. We all want them to create these new IP's that are awesome, and in a way they have. Ori is fantastic, and Sunset Overdrive and Quantum Break are cool games, but none of them were these mindblowing experiences that resulted in any boost in console sales. Hence they chose to focus on their strengths. We're still waiting for their Halo/Gears of this generation, but given the rise in popularity in the same genre that MS' strengths are, we very well may not see a new IP that reaches that level at all
Right now you see both Microsoft and Sony moving their first (and second) party efforts to meet their strengths, single-player story driven games for Sony and multi-player focused service games for Microsoft, because their efforts in dabbling in each other's strength's just haven't resulted in much success (Killzone/Resistance for Sony, Remedy partnership for Microsoft). The issue is that while there are a decent number of big third party single player games, a lot of the big third party publishers are also moving towards games-as-a-service model.
Halo and Gears were at peak popularity around the same time that Call of Duty and Battlefield initially started their explosions into popularity. There were fewer options in the multiplayer field, making the Xbox 360 the go-to console for people who wanted to get great multi-player experiences. While COD and Battlefield were big, there were far fewer games in that field that Halo and Gears had to compete with.
COD and Battlefield's immense popularity carried over to this gen, and this gen has brought new IP's like Destiny, Overwatch, The Division, and For Honor. All hugely successful multiplayer games. Even Titanfall, despite not finding as much success, still exists as another option for people looking for multi-player games. Combine this with Battlefront, Rainbow Six, and Ghost Recon all coming out with hugely successful new entires and there's now way more options for multi-player fans than there were 10 years ago when Halo and Gears were the talk of the town, and all these are available on PS4 also.
Because of this, multi-player fans no longer feel the need to buy an Xbox to get these experiences, there's plenty of them on PS4. Coupled with Sony's marketing deals/bundles with games like Destiny, Battlefront, and COD and Xbox is no longer the "go-to" console for multiplayer games. This benefits Sony because they no longer feel compelled to try to find the next big multi-player hit, hence they are free to build on their strengths. It hurts Microsoft because their games have to compete for players with all these other multi-player games, and they're just never going to.
As a result of all this Microsoft is in a tough spot. We all want them to create these new IP's that are awesome, and in a way they have. Ori is fantastic, and Sunset Overdrive and Quantum Break are cool games, but none of them were these mindblowing experiences that resulted in any boost in console sales. Hence they chose to focus on their strengths. We're still waiting for their Halo/Gears of this generation, but given the rise in popularity in the same genre that MS' strengths are, we very well may not see a new IP that reaches that level at all
Crayon
Member
Despite everything I've said in this thread about Microsoft focusing less on singleplayer exclusives and more on online services, I think the exclusives it got during the early 360 years were a big factor in how MS got ahead back then.
MS was getting a lot of multiplatform games on 360 months before they came to PS3 (Oblivion, BioShock, GRAW I believe) in combination with Gears, plus the Japanese exclusives Sony usually relied upon weren't there. By the time Sony caught up in the later years of that generation MS could just coast on having the "default" platform for multiplatform games while continuing to improve XBL. This problem with MS only having Halo, Gears, and Forza has been a problem since then. MS is using the same strategy now but PlayStation is the "default" platform now because MS messed up its marketing message starting out. Plus the Japanese exclusives have returned to PlayStation.
MS is pushing ahead though with Scorpio, BC, Game Pass, and I guess you could also count EA Pass. I think you could have even counted Xbox Game Preview before Sony started doing basically the same thing (or has that not started yet?). Actually, another thing MS is probably betting big on is its plan to make every Xbox One effectively a dev kit and allow a much wider swath of indies into the XBL/Windows 10 ecosystem. ID@Xbox has kind of backfired because of the exclusivity clause but it seems MS is counting on the new XBL/W10 dev system having a lower barrier of entry to get more indies on. At this moment I'm thinking that could turn into another Xbox Live Indie Games, just extended onto Windows and MS's other devices.
Though, I still think MS's weakness in continental Europe and Asia is potentially a bigger problem. If MS is so focused on online services, why isn't it trying harder to push those services in China, Korea, Southeast Asia, and maybe Russia and Brazil?
Looking back at MS's current IPs, I really don't see any that could be turned into big online-oriented things, because that's what MS is all about right now. A Fable MMO? I imagine MS is looking at what the most popular console genres are, and in North America they are shooters and sports games. MS has Halo and Gears, and "sports" includes cars which it has with Forza. EA wouldn't like MS competing with it in football (Gridiron or Association), hockey, golf, or UFC. I guess MS could try to compete with Sony and 2K in baseball and basketball respectively. Baseball might be the more valuable once since you have to own a PlayStation to play a new baseball game right now, so making one available on Xbox and PC might mean more to some people. Don't know how the MLB feels about licensing though. Same goes for the NBA actually.
TL
R: I could see MS investing in a first party MMO or a sports game, most likely baseball, but not a singleplayer open-world RPG.
Great post. There's a much higher amount of competition on the online shooter realm this gen compared to last gen -- a whole bunch of them that are actually solid and stable. Meanwhile Sony is benefiting a bit from an increase in Japanese story-driven singleplayer games, which were somewhat rarer last gen so people miss them.
This is also why I arrived at the suggestion of an MMO or a sports game for the next new MS IP. RPGs are getting to be the next biggest genre on consoles below action games and sports games, and there isn't a gigantic amount of MMO competition on consoles right now. Destiny, Diablo 3, and The Division are more co-op RPGs whereas the only big console MMO I can think of off the top of my head right now is Final Fantasy XIV. Oh and Elder Scrolls Online. A MOBA maybe? Nobody has really gotten one to fully work on a console yet, and it would be an even bigger challenge for MS to get one working on both Xbox and Windows 10.
MS was getting a lot of multiplatform games on 360 months before they came to PS3 (Oblivion, BioShock, GRAW I believe) in combination with Gears, plus the Japanese exclusives Sony usually relied upon weren't there. By the time Sony caught up in the later years of that generation MS could just coast on having the "default" platform for multiplatform games while continuing to improve XBL. This problem with MS only having Halo, Gears, and Forza has been a problem since then. MS is using the same strategy now but PlayStation is the "default" platform now because MS messed up its marketing message starting out. Plus the Japanese exclusives have returned to PlayStation.
MS is pushing ahead though with Scorpio, BC, Game Pass, and I guess you could also count EA Pass. I think you could have even counted Xbox Game Preview before Sony started doing basically the same thing (or has that not started yet?). Actually, another thing MS is probably betting big on is its plan to make every Xbox One effectively a dev kit and allow a much wider swath of indies into the XBL/Windows 10 ecosystem. ID@Xbox has kind of backfired because of the exclusivity clause but it seems MS is counting on the new XBL/W10 dev system having a lower barrier of entry to get more indies on. At this moment I'm thinking that could turn into another Xbox Live Indie Games, just extended onto Windows and MS's other devices.
Though, I still think MS's weakness in continental Europe and Asia is potentially a bigger problem. If MS is so focused on online services, why isn't it trying harder to push those services in China, Korea, Southeast Asia, and maybe Russia and Brazil?
Looking back at MS's current IPs, I really don't see any that could be turned into big online-oriented things, because that's what MS is all about right now. A Fable MMO? I imagine MS is looking at what the most popular console genres are, and in North America they are shooters and sports games. MS has Halo and Gears, and "sports" includes cars which it has with Forza. EA wouldn't like MS competing with it in football (Gridiron or Association), hockey, golf, or UFC. I guess MS could try to compete with Sony and 2K in baseball and basketball respectively. Baseball might be the more valuable once since you have to own a PlayStation to play a new baseball game right now, so making one available on Xbox and PC might mean more to some people. Don't know how the MLB feels about licensing though. Same goes for the NBA actually.
TL
R: I could see MS investing in a first party MMO or a sports game, most likely baseball, but not a singleplayer open-world RPG.Great post. There's a much higher amount of competition on the online shooter realm this gen compared to last gen -- a whole bunch of them that are actually solid and stable. Meanwhile Sony is benefiting a bit from an increase in Japanese story-driven singleplayer games, which were somewhat rarer last gen so people miss them.
This is also why I arrived at the suggestion of an MMO or a sports game for the next new MS IP. RPGs are getting to be the next biggest genre on consoles below action games and sports games, and there isn't a gigantic amount of MMO competition on consoles right now. Destiny, Diablo 3, and The Division are more co-op RPGs whereas the only big console MMO I can think of off the top of my head right now is Final Fantasy XIV. Oh and Elder Scrolls Online. A MOBA maybe? Nobody has really gotten one to fully work on a console yet, and it would be an even bigger challenge for MS to get one working on both Xbox and Windows 10.
daTRUballin
Member
Stop it.
Elfforkusu
Member
A new, improved version of Minecraft seems like the obvious answer...
Crayon
Member
If Halo got a shakeup like Zelda just did, it could be a big deal. A big part of the appeal Zelda has is that a stories old series shook off the old baggage and took a risk. It would probably take extra time to do something really new, but sooner or later they should be thinking about changing it up and trying to make it fresh again.
MilkyJoe
Member
In your mind.
Just now catching up with this thread. realize I'm a bit late but
They'll have a ton of smaller third party marketing deals. Likely the new Assassin's Creed , Shadow of War (confirmed), Borderlands 3 (maybe), Cyberpunk 2033, Fallout 4 VR, Prey, Wolfenstein: New Colossus etc etc. But the problem is none of these will be exclusives they'll just boast Scorpio as the best place to play. They'll probably have a handful of compelling independent games as exclusives though. Ori 2 is basically a sure thing and I'm sure theyll tout Cuphead and Below again hopefully with an actual release date this time. They'll also have the games we've already seen like Crackdown and Sea of Thieves but I think the people expecting them to pull big exclusive titles out of thin air are going to be extremely disappointed.
They'll have a ton of smaller third party marketing deals. Likely the new Assassin's Creed , Shadow of War (confirmed), Borderlands 3 (maybe), Cyberpunk 2033, Fallout 4 VR, Prey, Wolfenstein: New Colossus etc etc. But the problem is none of these will be exclusives they'll just boast Scorpio as the best place to play. They'll probably have a handful of compelling independent games as exclusives though. Ori 2 is basically a sure thing and I'm sure theyll tout Cuphead and Below again hopefully with an actual release date this time. They'll also have the games we've already seen like Crackdown and Sea of Thieves but I think the people expecting them to pull big exclusive titles out of thin air are going to be extremely disappointed.
My subjective opinion of all three games. Played 10 hours of Horizon and 30 of Zelda. Opinion of Crackdown is based on first game, they could screw it up of course. How does Horizon advance the genre? I think it's good but don't see how it advances the genre.
Is that your metric of what makes a great game?
Horizon is a fresh new open-world IP with a very unique setting and Guerrilla Games seems to have nailed every aspect of the combat, gameplay, story and graphics. Even when people were near unanimously doubting their ability to do so pre-release, having made mostly Killzone games before. Game seems to have sold nearly three million in two weeks too, with rave reviews.
If that's not a home run then I don't know what is.
It's in the OP. I was addressing that.
Obviously not, one has a 91 on metacritic & the other an 88. Clearly two critically panned games here that both critics & fans despised. Don't forget Titanfall had an alarmingly poor E3 showing when it was announced, turned no heads, & failed critically with an 86 in the end.
That "xbox gamers are idiots" guy sure had a lot of alts.
Very solid post. I agree with most of what you've said. I don't see any future Microsoft game or heck, just any exclusive new IP for any console for that matter having the same impact that Halo and Gears had during their respective times. Third party AAA has grown so much since 2006 that now those games have taken most of the mainstream spotlight.
Type_Raver
Member
Halo: Open world.
Borrow from Zelda and Horizon and add the Halo world and flavour, loose story and lots of exploration.
Borrow from Zelda and Horizon and add the Halo world and flavour, loose story and lots of exploration.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
A game doesn't need to advance a genre to be considered great.
It feels like MS has kind of given up on new risky content.
Of course they will keep their big series - and a lot of people love them. They are safe
I always thought Halo would have been interesting if it followed the original game pitch:
"open world gameplay, marooned on an alien construct"
No more levels or focus on story and characters. Just action, exploration and survival. Kind of like the new Zelda
Fable could make an interesting reboot though, but which developer?
Of course they will keep their big series - and a lot of people love them. They are safe
I always thought Halo would have been interesting if it followed the original game pitch:
"open world gameplay, marooned on an alien construct"
No more levels or focus on story and characters. Just action, exploration and survival. Kind of like the new Zelda
Fable could make an interesting reboot though, but which developer?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
This, I guess. I really don't see anything else they have that could fill this spot for them.
dragonelite
Member
Give playground a shot at it. But I do think fable or Ms own open world game deserves its own first party studio.
Who said it does?
Bits N Pieces
Member
Feels like this thread has almost come full circle now.
wapplew
Member
No one know playground game before FH, everyone shit on double helix before KI.
MS get a lot of flak for project mismanagement, but they didn't get enough credit for giving unknown/infamous studio chances.
I think they'll find someone, they always do.
Serious Sam
Member
Might be a decent game that falls into 6/10 to 8/10 category, if they really try hard. But that's not really on the same level as Horizon or Zelda, not even close.
Fantastic post. I agree with pretty much everything you said.
I really hope SOD2, Sea of Thieves, Crackdown 3 etc deliver & do well (I want nothing but success for them) but I just can't see any of them having a Halo or Gear type impact unfortunately.
Yeah, they already have the IP, no need to create another one.
Playground is busy with Forza Horizon that keeps getting better and better. They just need to buy a studio with RPG experience, or build it, though the latter would be harder I guess.
miller.skippins
Banned
Grabbed by the Ghoulies: Game of the Millennium Edition
If Crackdown 3 turns out great, I could see them going with a similar team-up for Fable IV / Fable reboot.
A core team consisting of Fable veterans combined with a sizable dev house. They seem to have a good relationship with Sumo Digital (FH2 360 and CD3), so maybe they could be used for Fable as well?
Ms feels like that old band that everyone liked at some point but who now show up to shows play there hits and when they play there new songs they just arnt good. Ms is getting stale with the hit trilogy of gears halo forza, they need some new ip I'm getting Scorpio but I'm a strange beast where I'll buy new gaming hardware regardless but to get back on track and have any chance at all of clawing back some of the ground Sony has gained they need new exciting ip to go along with the most powerful console ever made.
It's easy - Rare.
A new Fable game would have been the answer but they had Lionhead make that MP game instead and then shut them down before they could finish it. I don't think they need something to directly compete in that genre they just need something big coming out to excite people but I'm not sure anything they have lined up this year fits the bill. I think they're pinning a lot of their hopes on Crackdown 3 being really good and don't get me wrong I liked the other games but I never thought they were amazing though.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Nah they're gonna have some huge exclusives.
gaming_noob
Member
Rare had a hiring spree early last year. Possible I suppose. I hope they have a big e3. I've been waiting for their comeback since Nuts N Bolts.
scoobs
Member
Halo games will sell to Halo fans, ie, probably about as much as Halo 5 did. Microsoft needs something new to capture the crowd who's sick of the halo, gears, forza cycle and needs a good reason to buy an Xbox.
CalamityPixel
Member
Although I prefer Rare working on new IP, Rare are the studio that has enough British charm and talent to pull it off. I really want them to do it now lmao
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yeah, no. This is bollocks. In Zelda you can literally do whatever you want including go straight to the final boss once you've left the starting area. It gives players very little direction allowing for a truly freeform open world exploration experience. Link can climb literally anything, which is only governed by his stamina meter - unlike Assassin's Creed, where you still need ledges. During a thunderstorm if you're wearing or holding something metal you can get struck by lightning. Rain makes surfaces slippery so you can no longer climb them. You can roll boulders down hills to smash into enemies, and they can lay similar traps for you. The environment can catch fire. You can chop down any tree and use them to make bridges. If an enemy doesn't have a weapon and an explosive barrel is nearby they will grab that to throw it at you. And so on. Please tell me the ways in which all these other open world games have diverse systems and freedom of approach like this.
And yet Scalebound was the most anticipated Xbone game in the Gaf annual Most Wanted ratings for two years in a row. Again, despite the poor showings people believed that Kamiya would deliver.
Again, I was not calling it high-acclaimed, because that's not possible. I was saying "MS just cancelled one [an action-adventure/ARPG] a couple of months ago."
That's what Recore should have been. A shame they used Unity and didn't give it a bigger budget. Maybe if it sold well enough for a sequel that will get a longer development cycle and a bigger development budget.
I agree with this. I kind of feel like having to make sure all games will run on Xbone as well as Scorpio will mean that they'll be hamstrung to varying degrees, and I really don't think a more expensive console is going to be some kind of magic bullet that some people seem to.
Yeah, I really think announcing this thing 5-ish months before release would have been a lot more interesting and exciting. Imagine if they'd opened this E3 with the Scorpio announcement, details on power, price and release date, and then shown a bunch of games running on the system and looking considerably better than PS4 would have been a pretty strong showing.
Search Xbox Scorpio on Twitter. This is for the last half hour alone.
And its been this way since it was announced last Summer, the hype has been building for months.
Most of the people mentioning Scorpio on Twitter daily are the likes of Crapgamer and his army, who would be hyped for literally anything Xbox related. I'm not sure this is a particularly good barometer of the general response to the console upgrade outside of the ultra-hardcore ultra-loyal audience.
Rare is busy with Sea of Thieves though, which will receive content updates for a lot of time if it does well.
Do they have the bandwidth to create a full-scale, open-world Fable RPG?
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Where are they going to get them from?
Triggerhappytel
Member
Good post. I think it's particularly true that despite many efforts neither Sony or MS have really been able to make headway in the genres each specialise in.
I don't think Rare is a particularly big studio any more so I seriously doubt they would have capacity to create a new Fable while creating or supporting Sea of Thieves. Maybe once SoT is fully developed and done with, but then we're probably looking at 2021-2022 before a new Fable would be possible. That being said, I think giving the IP a few years off would be a good thing.
Okay - such as? Are you referring to brand new stuff, or games they've already announced, like Crackdown or State of Decay 2?
Bits N Pieces
Member
Second and third party collaborations?
daTRUballin
Member
Well, E3 2015 was already sort of a "pseudo-comeback" from them, if you will.
But yeah, I do agree. I need to see more than just Sea of Thieves and a collection of their old games to claim they're back.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I'm utterly amazed at how poorly MS has handled the Fable IP. I still can't believe they opted for that shitty (and now canceled) 4v1 Fable MP game over making a new AAA title in the series.
Triggerhappytel
Member
It was very poorly handled - a victim of MS's business strategies at the time, when a proper fleshed-out full RPG would have been far more welcomed by literally everyone. It's the same bad handling of a great developer like Sony's treatment of Zipper Interactive or Guerrilla Cambridge, where they are anchored to fucking niche hardware and then no-one is surprised when their games don't sell well enough to keep the company afloat.
HeisenbergWW62
Banned
Check your PM
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