• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

What is a possible Microsoft answer to Horizon Zero Dawn and Breath of the Wild?

SilentRob

Member
They had the opportunity to build Sunset Overdrive into something that would fit that bill. That first game was really, really good. It had it's fair share of problems but just imagine what a real sequel could have looked like. Looking at games like Assassin's Creed 2 or (possibly) Shadow of Mordor 2 feels like a good comparison: They take the predecessors core mechanics that worked really well and then just build a way bigger, better game around them, now that they don't have to start from scratch.

Uncharted could have forever remained what the first game was if Sony wouldn't have given ND all of those ressources to build upon the systems introduced in the first and create something entirely different and more advanced. MS just tends to lack that stamina.

That's not what I said. I said that MS are not in the market position to make one and have it be successful like Horizon. They have a small userbase and struggling hardware sales. Horizon and Zelda are big budget releases, and there's the risk that you spend millions of dollars for a 7/10 (you might speculate that Scalebound, for example, would end up this way)..


User base is a really weird argument with the Switch only being out a few weeks and all.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Original Halo and Gears made them a ton of money on smaller user bases than they have now with Xbox One. If they made something that had the "it" factor then sure, they could make a lot of money.

Different situations I think; Halo was a launch title (like Zelda) and Gears was very early in the console, the first (or among the first) killer apps for the platform. 360 was also performing better than Xbone at the same time and didn't have juggernaut competition.

User base is a really weird argument with the Switch only being out a few weeks and all.

I said in my previous post that Zelda is a launch title so it's driving early adoption for Switch; something Nintendo wants. Releasing something like Zelda or Horizon on Xbone would not push the pointer very much.
 

Markoman

Member
And if they don't have something come November to show this difference, then it's not going to look good to Joe Public.

I think the biggest problem for both Pro and Scorpio is: how do you sell 4K to people watching E3 on YT on their 1080 TVs.

Hell, I've tried 900p and 1080p in Nioh and coudn't see a big difference. BotW is a 720p game on WiiU and for me that's not the game's biggest technical issue.
 

MilkyJoe

Member
I think the biggest problem for both Pro and Scorpio is: how do you sell 4K to people watching E3 on YT on their 1080 TVs.

Hell, I've tried 900p and 1080p in Nioh and coudn't see a big difference. BotW is a 720p game on WiiU and for me that's not the game's biggest technical issue.

Well it needs to be good old fashioned "pretty graphics" that does it. They can't say "introducing Forza 7, in 4K 60fps" and it still looks like the old cartoon Forza 6. That's not going to impress over youtube.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
I mean, they do have a much, much bigger IP than anything Nintendo or Sony have in Minecraft.
But they went with a different strategy.

And btw, Microsoft isn't in a position to create a new IP like Horizon atm and have it be that successful, it's a much riskier endeavor right now for them than it is for Sony, especially if they don't involve a top tier developer and even then... Scalebound?

I still think that doing a proper 9/10 reviewed Halo 3rd person action adventure would make the IP super popular again and give the hardware a boost. They should've launched such a project day and date with Scorpio and boom, hype all around, Xbox is cool and the talk of the town again.
 
I think the biggest problem for both Pro and Scorpio is: how do you sell 4K to people watching E3 on YT on their 1080 TVs.

Hell, I've tried 900p and 1080p in Nioh and coudn't see a big difference. BotW is a 720p game on WiiU and for me that's not the game's biggest technical issue.

Is it going to be like the PS4 Pro where you can choose between 4k or bells and whistles (or at least that's what I've understood you can do)?
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
As other's note they don't really have anything. Scalebound as noted by many would have been the best shot if it hadn't gotten axed and had ended up special. But it's unlikely it would have turned out as well as open world RPGs aren't Platinum's forte--but who knows given how well Horizon turned out from an FPS dev.

Agree with others that they're more focused on the games as a service approach. Their strength last gen was the online gamer crowd in North America and the UK. Give up on Asia and don't expend a ton of effort in the rest of Europe that is Sony dominated. Their best path to profits is probably doubling down on those markets and getting a hit game as service shooter or three that makes them a lot of money. They really need to nail Halo 6 and Gears 5 and Forza 7 if Scorpio is going to do well, along with having a couple new IP to bring people in.

They also need to strengthen the PC side of things. Either get away from the WIndows store and build a comment storefront into the Xbox app, or just take the hit and put their games on Steam. They can make a ton of money from the PC gamer crowd if they can get them on board and stop with the UWP stuff that turns off so much of that market. With the games as a service approach they need to maximize playerbase and getting PC gamers on board is honestly bigger than getting people to buy Scorpio that will probably sell at a loss.
 

Space_nut

Member
Is it going to be like the PS4 Pro where you can choose between 4k or bells and whistles (or at least that's what I've understood you can do)?

Phil conformed the power is free to use in any way for the devs

He also stressed on the ign podcast that gamers need to see the difference graphically when they show it off. You can bet the games being revealed are going all out geaphically for Scorpio
 

UCBooties

Member
I think that this E3 is so very important, if Nintendo comes out with Metroid, Pokemon, Smash, new IPs, tons of indies, Animal Crossing and really hits a home run Microsoft is in trouble because Nintendo will carry their success into the holiday. Microsoft most likely won't have an answer to something like that.

Even disregarding what the other two companies are doing, MS needs to have a strong E3. They are going to be trying to sell the Scorpio on the strength of an E3 reveal and no one is going to give fuck about Scorpio if they can't show a broad slate of exciting games that are going to show tangible benefits on the platform. If they roll out their usual slate of Forza+Halo/Gears+Sports for another overproduced MS snooze fest, no one outside their core customers is going to care how powerful the Scorpio is.
 
Not every company has every genre filled. Sony nor Nintendo have a FPS franchise as successful as halo

I’m a bit confused by this comment as in consecutive sentences you refer to not having an entry in the FPS genre, and then stating that they don’t have an entry as successful as Halo.

As for upcoming games. Where's sonys multiplayer co-op survival game( State of Decay)? Where's the shared world adventure game(Sea of Thieves)?

I mean, you could create a topic about this as there’s certainly a conversation about this to be had – Sony doesn’t generally create co-op experiences, which is a shame. In fact, they even seem to be veering away from multiplayer in general, I guess because they had a lot of failures in the field last gen (MAG, Starhawk, Twisted Metal to name a few).

Halo 3 sold 13 mil units (at launch month it had 50% attach rate in almost 15 mil consoles) and Halo 4 sold 10 mil (12% attach rate) and because it was a worst game than Halo 3 lost in sales. Still can you tell me one Sony first party in this gen that achieved these kind of sales numbers?

No, because there isn’t one; Halo 3 was a cultural phenomenon and I don’t think a Sony/MS game has made such a big impact since. Has any MS game this gen sold that much this gen?! Closest for Sony would be Uncharted 4 which is at 8 million sales, and I believe last gen their biggest-selling game was GT5 with 10+ million copies sold.

I am just saying that the age that the first party games made sales like halo 3 are long gone (with an exception of nintendo and its platforms) and that third party studios make or brake platforms.

I disagree. Look at the reception the reveal for The Last of Us Part II got. God of War was the highest-viewed trailer from E3 last year (more so than huge third-party tentpoles like Battlefield 1 and Watch Dogs 2) and we’ve just Horizon come out and sell 2.6 million copies in a fortnight. The third-party titles sell more of course, but to infer that first-party titles are no longer as important as they once were is nonsense IMO. And then of course platform holders make their consoles appealing by having a spread of high-quality games across a range of genres. It’s the key way to differentiate consoles from one another; especially when third-party releases are typically 90% the same across consoles.

My argument is that third party games sale more than first party games, thus first party games play a lesser role in a platform success, and based on this assumption, one factor that will make people choose the Scorpio over PS4 will be that the third party games will run a lot better.

We shall see. I don’t think most people are going to pay considerably more for better visuals on the same games, and the Xbone S and PS4 Slim will continue to sell far more than their more powerful counterparts. A lot of people are putting an awful lot of stock in Scorpio but I don’t see it being a much different scenario from the PS4 Pro.

I can't think of any highly-acclaimed ARPG which was cancelled by them. Just one which was absolutely slated anytime it was shown, and now is suddenly thought to of been the second coming of Christ after it's been cancelled.

Is this a strawman? I've never used the term before, but I think this is a strawman. Of course Scalebound was not highly-acclaimed, because a product that has not been played by the press or the public cannot be acclaimed. Again, Kamiya is one of the most successful and consistent Japanese directors ever, and despite its couple of weak showings the assumption is that he would have delivered a good game.
 
And btw, Microsoft isn't in a position to create a new IP like Horizon atm and have it be that successful, it's a much riskier endeavor right now for them than it is for Sony, especially if they don't involve a top tier developer and even then... Scalebound?

I still think that doing a proper 9/10 Halo 3rd person action adventure would make the IP super popular again and give the hardware a boost. They should've launched such a project day and date with Scorpio and boom, Xbox is cool and the talk of the town again.

Aye they need something like that. Something that makes you think I need to buy an Xbox and If I'm buying one I want the best one.

Having said that, if all the best third party games on Scorpio absolutely piss all over their counterparts on other console formats, that is going to drive sales. I think the question is: Is the difference going to be big enough both at 4k and 1080p? People are saying that it might well be pretty big, if so then it's going to do OK. I think they need a killer game to really make it an unqualified success though, especially if it's going to cost $400+.
 
This thread defines the current psychology of the Xbox division: play catch up. Match the competition. Repeat what Sony tried did last generation or even 2 generations ago. All miserable failures of strategizing.

It's sad and such a far cry from the launch hype of the OG Xbox. That was something to envy.

The current Xbox is not. Fixing that is not a simple solution, and it's not going to take place because of Sea of Thieves and Cuphead releasing one year. This problem of Xbox resting on their laurels started mid-gen with Xbox 360. It's going to take equally as long, and a hell of a lot more work, to reverse that.

I think that is missing from what people understand here, is how far behind they really are right now.
 

KORNdoggy

Member
Aye they need something like that. Something that makes you think I need to buy an Xbox and If I'm buying one I want the best one.

Having said that, if all the best third party games on Scorpio absolutely piss all over their counterparts on other console formats, that is going to drive sales. I think the question is: Is the difference going to be big enough both at 4k and 1080p? People are saying that it might well be pretty big, if so then it's going to do OK. I think they need a killer game to really make it an unqualified success though, especially if it's going to cost $400+.

this is the big issue scorpio has to face. perceived value. is the IQ in one of their native 4k titles going to be noticeably crisper than say, horizon, which is hitting 4k via checkerboard? do MS have any devs as tech savvy as GG to produce visuals as good, or better, given the increased power?

personally i think most if not all of the additional power in the scorpio will be used for 4k output. which won't leave much left for asset quality increases. when you consider the average joe can't see the difference between a 900p title and 1080p unless they're side by side and zoomed in 200%, what chance do they have or seeing the difference between 4k checkerboard and 4k native without them being directly compared? even DF say it's incredibly difficult to notice it's not a native 4k image.
 

Jetboxx

Member
I don't think they've ever had an answer to anything Sony does when it comes to software. I don't think they care.
Well, they have. They've won the previous generation in terms of exclusives, as for me, despite the fact I hated the second part of it.
 

Banamy

Member
I really wish gears was put to rest. Shame blacktusk became coalition. I love gears but I was hyped for a new ip
 

watdaeff4

Member
Didn't Quantum Break release recently and Gears 4 have a decent sp campaign? Then there was DR4?

Check when Quantum Break began development, Gears 4 sp campaign was good, but the Horde/MP microtransactions are the perfect example of what I'm talking about, DR4 is a (timed but soon to be) multiplat game made by a 3rd party.

So, no offense, but your rebuttal examples are very poor ones and if anything proves my point even further.

I think the biggest problem for both Pro and Scorpio is: how do you sell 4K to people watching E3 on YT on their 1080 TVs.

Hell, I've tried 900p and 1080p in Nioh and coudn't see a big difference. BotW is a 720p game on WiiU and for me that's not the game's biggest technical issue.

I agree with this post wholeheartedly. I think even MS and Sony would too. Neither act like they are the mass market and that they are for a small subset of gamers.
 
It called being competitive.

Sony has Horizon.
Nintendo has switch +Zelden.
MS has ????

What do MS to compete with to get my attention?

Or is it called fanboy nonsense?. What open world racer does SONY or NCL have to match Forza Horizon 3 , What FPS or indeed racing sim does NCL have to match Forza 6 or HALO V ?. You know all corps have IP that others don't

I get this place is SONY central. But if it's one corp that doesn't have a number of IP or totally lacking 3rd party support, its NCL not MS.
 
Fable open world with similar structure of the first game

They really dropped the ball with Fable.

Literally no one asked for a F2P horde mode Fable game. Yet that's what they tried to force on us and unfortunately the whole studio had to take the blame and suffer for it. A proper Fable 4 would have been amazing, especially now that current technology allows all the promise of the earlier games to finally come to fruition. What could have been...
 
don't be too hasty

4363463453459oxrs.jpg
didn't know chinner was twitter famous lol
 
Okay, I haven't played the game but going by all the footage and reviews I've watched this sounds like total bullshit. The game is designed in such a way with all these compelling systems like weather, physics, climbing, AI and a truly freeform world that it feels like a step forward for the open world genre.

Yeah I can guess you haven't played the game. Zelda and AI don't make me laugh and I'm sorry dynamic weather and physics I've seen in a lot of open work games and hey one can climb in Assians Creed.

The Freedom in Zelda is nothing like what one see's in GTA V, Fall Out III, IV, The Witcher 3 and god knows how many other open world games.
 
Someone has to be funding it so whoever is publishing it has already struck the deal. Unless Playground has the crazy cash laying around for an independent studio to expand and starting making a new IP with no publisher. I mean it's definitely possible that Microsoft is involved, but doesn't seem like the kind of risk they would take right now.

But that's a damn shame if true. Playground has proven itself i'd say by now, time for MS to take a risk now. Ah well.
 

Raysod

Banned
Halo 4 did not hit those numbers. The only place that has it at 10 mil is Chartzzz

Edit: oh, you've been quoting Chartzzz this whole thread. Come on man

Actually I used wikipedia for Halo 4 numbers and Sony sales press releases or other respectful media for sales for the Sony games, I never look at Chartzzz for numbers.

Microsoft never released numbers for the newer Halo games, but from wikipedia we know that the game generated 300 mil in revenues in its first week (thus 5 mil copies at 60$/copy).

Also check from the link that the game launched on Nov 2012 and the Halo series reached 60 mil by Oct 2014 (it was 46 mil in Oct 2012), thus its sales should be more than 10 mil copies sold. The next halo released in Nov 2014 (MMC) and the Spartan Assult and Spartan Strike did not move millions anyhow.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(series)

killzone numbers:

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/c...all-sales-exceed-2-1-million-units-worldwide/

Uncharted 4 numbers:

http://www.polygon.com/2017/1/4/14173168/playstation-4-sales-53-million-uncharted-4

Horizon numbers:

http://m.ign.com/articles/2017/03/16/horizon-zero-dawn-sales-pass-26-million

Bloodborne numbers:

http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/09...s-sold-worldwide-across-physical-and-digital/

Anyhow this is not a sales thread, but how MS will use Scorpio to compete with Sony.
 

Warnen

Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Personally I'd put Quantum Break up there with H:ZD. I can see why some people didn't like it but I loved it.

The game play was cool, loved zooming around in fights using the different powers. Even loved the SyFy TV channel like episodes between the missions. Would love to see another game in that series.


Lance Reddick is in both games so maybe he is the magic :D
 

spannicus

Member
Personally I'd put Quantum Break up there with H:ZD. I can see why some people didn't like it but I loved it.

The game play was cool, loved zooming around in fights using the different powers. Even loved the SyFy TV channel like episodes between the missions. Would love to see another game in that series.


Lance Reddick is in both games so maybe he is the magic :D
Quantum Break was amazing. Played it on PC and X1.
 
I believe Phil Spencer has stated in several interviews that he believes what is best for the Xbox platform and Xbox / Win10 users, is for he and his team to focus on bringing the best possible content and user experience to whichever platform they choose to play on. It's not about looking at what others are doing and trying to copy their agenda, and I would agree with that view.

Now some people will say it's just PR speak because MS is losing this generation, but I disagree. I don't think Phil is interested in playing a losing game, and trying to catch Sony is clearly a lost cause. MS / Xbox only choice at this point is too look forward and make good decisions to promote the future of gaming on Xbox / Windows. Trying to match your competitors blow for blow, isn't the path to success. Forging your own path and doing right by your customer's is the way to success, and I think that's what Phil is trying to do.
 

Banamy

Member
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I also think that establishing 343i was a bad idea and I don't like their Halo games...
Im too invested into halo at this point. 20 books, figures, statues, games. I dont hate 343i games but they are clearly going through an identity crisis.
 
I've been thinking about this a little and what if MS is absolutely fine with how things are going? I'm sure they are well aware they won't ''win''this generation anymore, they are not delusional. Xbox One IS doing fine though, and they have Halo, Gears and Forza. Now i don't know about Gears 4, but i think Halo 5 sold pretty damn well. And Forza always seems to be a hit. Scorpio is targeted at certain gamers who just want that extra in terms of graphical bells and whistles and it will be the system for all the multiplats.

It's bad for us gamers, but in what hurry is MS really to build up new studios and/or bring brand new IP? I think we all know how important the gaming division for Sony is, but the same can't really be said about Xbox for Microsoft. Of course they care for it, but just not nearly as much as Sony who keeps doubling down on new games, it's also their only real profitable division. Speaking of which, i recall Phil Spencer saying that in a tweet a while ago, that they were going to double down on games. I wish they really did, so that we would be getting awesome exclusives left and right from all three companies.

It's good that he acknowledged that they need more diversity, he said that in a tweet after Scalebound was canned but so far a lot of that has been nothing but talk. It's probably best to keep expectations low. Expect the already announced games for E3, new Moon Studios game probably....but don't expect miracles. I hope i am wrong as hell though, since personally i prefer Xbox in every way but i can't deny that it's not looking extremely great for gamers wanting brand new IP.
 

watdaeff4

Member
Now some people will say it's just PR speak because MS is losing this generation, but I disagree. I don't think Phil is interested in playing a losing game, and trying to catch Sony is clearly a lost cause. MS / Xbox only choice at this point is too look forward and make good decisions to promote the future of gaming on Xbox / Windows. Trying to match your competitors blow for blow, isn't the path to success. Forging your own path and doing right by your customer's is the way to success, and I think that's what Phil is trying to do.

I agree with this also. They aren't going to "win" by trying to outdo Sony 1 on 1. Sony's brand and mindshare is too strong not matter what MS was able to do. They are going the Nintendo route and creating their own path (but to this point being able to keep Most 3rd parties along with them).
 
Currently there's not a single Xbox game I'm excited for other than maybe State of Decay 2. They've fallen off the map it's sort of ridiculous where their IP currently is.
 

Banamy

Member
Its been the same for years.

Xbox has the best exclusive racing and shooter franchise.

Playstation and Nintendo has everything else
 

le.phat

Member
Personally I'd put Quantum Break up there with H:ZD. I can see why some people didn't like it but I loved it.

The game play was cool, loved zooming around in fights using the different powers. Even loved the SyFy TV channel like episodes between the missions. Would love to see another game in that series.


Lance Reddick is in both games so maybe he is the magic :D

The tone-deafness in this thread, lmao.
 

valkyre

Member
Amazed that some people considered Scalebound to be a promising title....

Each showing was making me cringe even more than the last one...

That looked like a horrible game with a horrible character...

Now Crackdown 3? Much better I agree.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Amazed that some people considered Scalebound to be a promising title....

Each showing was making me cringe even more than the last one...

That looked like a horrible game with a horrible character...

Now Crackdown 3? Much better I agree.
I saw some extended demos played by Kamiya himself. It looked very interesting to me. It didn't pan out but I had a lot of faith during development. I'm still positive that, given the time to make it as they wanted, it would have been special.
 
Top Bottom