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15th Anniversary of Gran Turismo Europe: Invite to GT6, [Make A New Thread]
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Let's take the Mitsubishi GTO/3000GT as an example. In GT5, there are 18 variations of the model with all 18 of them being standard models. The main difference between the models comes from the year (95 through to 98) and a difference in model name. Despite that, they are all pretty much the same car. Now if PD were to model just one of them to a premium standard, that would eliminate 17 other cars. If they modeled a turbo model and a non-turbo model separately, that would still get rid of 16 other cars.
I haven't even mentioned Skylines yet.
The point I'm trying to get across here is that there is a large number of unnecessary duplicates that have been dumped into GT5 from older titles that don't mean squat. Although I can't find it, I believe I read something a while back about Kaz commenting on why there are so many "clones" of what is essentially the same car because each model was special or something?
I might also be making this up. I hope I'm not.
If the lack of Porsches in Forza Horizion is to be believed, yes.
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
Meh, I don' t think cars benefit being exclusive to anybody. Porche is missing out not being in a GT game.
MrCookiepants
Member
Gran Turimso covers (since GT4 at least) have always featured the car of the moment. The Ford GT, Nissan GT-R, Corvette ZR-1 and the Merc SLS. To go from those to some random concept car that will be forgotten in a few months doesn't make sense.
Assuming GT6 will only be released on the PS3 (initially, at least), what do people think are the chances of it having a substantially reworked (or even brand new) game engine compared to GT5? Or will it simply be the addition of new tracks, new cars and new structure all based on the existing code? Turn 10 have substantially reworked/rewritten their game engine on three different versions of Forza on the same 360 hardware, and FM2 is pretty much unrecognisable compared to FM4. I wonder if PD are planning a similar revamp?
Bluforce
Member
FM2 was awful. GT5 no.
It is just not that simple.
For some reason - that nobody knows about and I still haven't managed to get the info about it despite years invested in trying to figure out the whole thing - Electronic Arts has some kind of special deal with Porsche (Porsche Lizenz- und Handelsgesellschaft mbH & Co. KG) regarding exclusive rights to use, manage and sub-license the Porsche vehicles for use in video-games, non-platform dependable.
That license has never been ceased (despite numerous rumours it will during past 5-7 years) and it is still valid.
During time, EA games (Need For Speed main games & spin-offs, and latest, Real Racing MOS games) were the only games that had Porsche vehicles when EA decided to grant the use. Worth noticing is how that *licence* covers even modifying the appearance and damaging the vehicles, as we could see in NFS: Shift games (Works modification comes to mind).
We learned from Forza Motorsport 4 how usage of Porsche in Forza was result of some deal between two sides: Microsoft & EA. Speculation was how they *traded* licenses: Microsoft granted EA the rights to use their Ferrari license for the Shift DLC exclusively on X360 while EA granted MS to use Porsches in Forza 4 - also as an DLC only. The "catch" was how because of the some reason usage of Ferrari licence on PS3 is even more complicated, because the licensing has been shared in-between Polyphony Digital (for Gran Turismo games), System 3 (they still can sell their Ferrari The Race Challenge over PSN, which means their license is still valid), Atari (Test Drive Unlimited 2 had multi-platform Ferrari licence and Atari used the licence to publish the Ferrari Race Legends by Slightly Mad Studious as multiplatform (PC, PS3, X360) in 2012), Codemasters (for F1 games only, usage of Ferrari is negotiated separately from other FOM-covered rights) and SEGA (as timed-usage for Outrun games, which can't be bought over PSN for years now when license expired).
Because of the above, EA was not in situation to offer Shift Ferrari DLC to PS3 players (or maybe it didn't want to, due to deal with MS).
However, it is very interesting to learn how Porsche-BUG in Forza 4 has still not be fixed (players who don't have Porsche DLC can't even see Porsche cars in game is used by other players) and *maybe* it has something to do with the license.
Of course, there is interesting story regarding infamous "AUTOMANIAX" project (now cancelled) that appeared in 2011 (?), but was never made out of the beta-phase. I learned how Automaniax was in-fact actually licensed by Porsche, but only for racing vehicles - and pitched by SMS. However, the guys who were producing "Automaniax" did something wrong and because of the unknown reasons - we don't know which ones - project never become a reality. It was planned as showcase-product only, never to be available on consoles for instance, so maybe that was the reason why they even succeeded to grab the license in the first place.
So, to make a breakdown:
- Porsche multiplatform rights are owned exclusively by Electronic Arts
- Microsoft had some kind of "sub-license" for Porsche on Xbox platform, granting it to their developers based on title (Project Gotham Racing, Forza Motorsport series)
- Codemasters also had some kind of rights to use few Porsche models on both PS3/X360 GRID
- at this moment only EA has rights to deploy Porsche in their games on PS3
- on PC almost noone OFFICIALY uses Porsche since 2007 and GTR2 game which used only racing models, probably inside general FIA-license. Porsches were excluded from 2008 GTR Evolution game (made available only as "mod skins" later). Only 2 PC games with Porsches (that were not EA games) were TDU2 in 2011 and Ferrari Racing Legends in 2012
We know Kazunori is great fan of Porsche and we can presume he would be very happy to have it in GT series from every reason imaginable. But everything probably has to do with willing of EA to allow the usage (all until Porsche decide it will license the rights directly to Sony/PD *one day*).
If so, then all I can do is quote Angst:
Of course, third scenario is also possible, where Porsche was willing to allow Sony/PD (I think how license-holder is always Sony (publisher), PD *only* uses all licenses as developer) to use the license, but Sony (PD) imagined how proposed price was unjustifiable from some reason. But everything on that matter will be pure speculation until some real info become known, if ever.
So you think there is no room for improvement (or reason to try) in GT5's game engine?
Katana_Strikes
Member
Anyone know what time it's being live streamed in the UK?
when porsche dropped for forza 4, I downloaded immediately, so I didn't check, but tell me:
in all the regular car packs, t10 offers a car from each pack to be downloaded for free,
so that the entire pack of new cars is downloaded and so can be displayed if others are using it.
ok, and also give as a gift one car per package for those that wont buy.
In porsche pack, is there an option to download a free porsche from the pack?
because if this is not the case, then its impossible for one that hasnt got the porsche pack to view the porsche models.
iirc, when online a person uses a DLC car that you havent got the package it was in, you see not that car but something like a blacked out jetta or something.
The event won't be live streamed sadly. I'm not sure if they've given a start time for the event, maybe someone should ask Jordan?
It's not being livestreamed anymore. A video of the event will be put up after the event is done though (no idea on the timeline).
So a liveblog is your best bet if you want to know everything as soon as it happens.
Edit: beaten
"GT5" engine has been improved over its lifespan several times.
What we do not know is the current state of it. Maybe PD managed to optimise the code immensely over GT5 but something prevented them to include it as update over regular GT5 updates.
What you are seeking for - "rock solid" V-synced 60fps/1080p with no screen tearing" - is a nice wish, but I do not think it is possible, simply because crazy amount of things that are going on in GT5 during gameplay in the same time.
We will have to wait and see, nobody knows anything nor will know anything before Wednesday and before we actually get game in our hands.
Bluforce
Member
Yes. I think there is no room for improvements in the engine if GT6 will be on PS3.
More track, more Premium car, better menù, better online gaming, but no real engine improvements.
IMHO, eh.
60fps/720p would be fine with me..!
I touched on this in a previous post, but if GT6 really is a brand-new game and not just a substantial expansion of GT5, then (assuming the basic code hasn't been rewritten) I do hope the PS3 hardware limitations are given careful consideration and the game adjusted accordingly. I imagine the perfectionist we know Kaz to be has regular nightmares about the stuttering and v-synch issues with GT5. GT6 gives him an opportunity to address these problems properly.
Then you Sir are ignoring the last thirty years of console based development. Look at the improvements other developers have managed when comparing 2010 games to 2013 games, why would PD not be able to improve also?
I hope its not true ;\
What is wrong with people? Why do they want less content? To have pissing contests on boards or what?
Bluforce
Member
It is different. GT5 don't was a "static game" technically born and died in 2010.
GT5's engine was vastly improved from 2010 to 2013. (And we have to remember that GT5
was better than GT5 in some details).Maybe they will put the climatic changes in every tracks. Yes. But on PS3 is hard introduce new feature.
It is different. GT5 don't was a "static game" technically born and died in 2010.
GT5's engine was vastly improved from 2010 to 2013. (And we have to remember that GT5
Maybe they will put the climatic changes in every tracks. Yes. But on PS3 is hard introduce new feature.
Why is it any different? For all we know there's something deep in GT5's codebase that can only be changed with a new game (short of a 40GB patch).
velociraptor
Junior Member
It is different. GT5 don't was a "static game" technically born and died in 2010.
GT5's engine was vastly improved from 2010 to 2013. (And we have to remember that GT5
Maybe they will put the climatic changes in every tracks. Yes. But on PS3 is hard introduce new feature.
This is how I feel. GT5 is already stretching the PS3 with it's high resolution. I doubt they'll make any visual improvements to the engine.
This is why I would prefer GT6 on the PS4. So they can deliver a fresh and exciting new experience.
All guess work. The fact that you think GT5 was already at 2013 standards in 2010 means that you should have more faith in them improving stuff, not less, as they clearly know what they are doing. Sure it won't be as dramatic as the leap to PS4 would be but that's hardly fair to expect.
Also, you're tying a 'fresh and exciting experience' entirely to graphics, when arguably the easiest way to deliver this is by sorting out everything but the graphics.
I and many others here could easily write a list of improvements that would be simplicity itself to achieve, not require any new hardware and deliver an experience beyond anything we have had so far without touching the graphics at all.
flipswitch
Member
I hope they fix up all the technical issues they had with GT5. If not then well, in the ps4 version. No more excuses!
Goldrusher
Member
That banner is about the 15th anniversary. Technically it should also have a PSone, PS2 and PSP logo.I'm afraid PS4 is out. Playstation France put up the PS3 logo then took it down on their site
It's not a GT6 banner, so no need for a PS4 logo.
Also, it's likely we'll get a new GT Academy minigame on Wednesday. Which will be for PS3.
Hardly possible without sacrificing something. There were issues with:
- framerate
- V-sync (tearing)
- real-time alpha-effects
- lack of any type of smoke/particles in mirrors
- lack of real-time effects for water on track (with exception of SS7)
- lack of drying raceline when rain for tracks with variable weather
During time (with updates) we witnessed following changes, probably made in order to improve framerate:
- drastic reduction of visual-damage occurrent
- reduction of details in spectators (number of *cardboards*, flags were killed, etc)
- reduction of particle effects such as sparks
- the HDR bloom was re-introduced at some point but not as spectacular as in Vanilla version (Eiger tunnel being most obvious example)
- we lost detailed reflections for cars on wet-surfaces (most notable on SS7)
Etc.
IMO They can't fix all above without sacrificing something big and resource-hungry as resolution, as Mascot suggests - because there is nothing else they could seriously "cut" in order to find more available RAM. I find hard to believe PD will decide to go 720p natively, although I agree that would be far the best solution in negotiating all hardware constraints. It will be interesting development, I concur.
velociraptor
Junior Member
I don't have any faith in them because the game wasn't an improvement over GT5
. I personally think GT5 looks a tad worse. Yes, GT5 does a lot more than Prologue, but the overall image quality on my TV set is sharper and cleaner in Prologue.drugstore_cowboy
Member
Forza 2 wasn't awful, what the fuck are you on about?
As for GT6 I'm not too bothered about potential jank, I'd like some work done on the tyres, some basic rules added, better career mode and some more tracks.
As for GT6 I'm not too bothered about potential jank, I'd like some work done on the tyres, some basic rules added, better career mode and some more tracks.
flipswitch
Member
That's why I wish there will be ps4 version of some kind. All those problems would be fixed.
Remember, they're still going to target the same resolution 720p/1080p on ps4. Maybe by the time they finished with GT5, say at the end of 2010, no ps4 dev kits were available so they continued developing for ps3.
Remember, they're still going to target the same resolution 720p/1080p on ps4. Maybe by the time they finished with GT5, say at the end of 2010, no ps4 dev kits were available so they continued developing for ps3.
Bluforce
Member
I played and enjoyed so much FM2.
But, come on, look at FM3 or FM4. FM2 was clearly awful.
RED BULL IT GETS INTERESTING
Red Bull has published this article on their main site on May 10th, I can't believe nobody picked it up yet:
Gran Turismo: Red Bull's Greatest Gaming Hits
Last sentence:
Speculate! Pikes Peak? Red Bull Ring? F1 circuits incoming? Peugeot 208 T16 Pikes Peak? Re Bull F1 cars? Red Bull Formula 3 licensed cars? Karts?
Also, UK NeoGaffers older then 18, apply here for a chance to win your trip to Silverstone at Wednesday (Twitter contest ending today):
http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/storie...chance-for-an-amazing-gran-turismo-experience
Red Bull has published this article on their main site on May 10th, I can't believe nobody picked it up yet:
Gran Turismo: Red Bull's Greatest Gaming Hits
Last sentence:
Speculate! Pikes Peak? Red Bull Ring? F1 circuits incoming? Peugeot 208 T16 Pikes Peak? Re Bull F1 cars? Red Bull Formula 3 licensed cars? Karts?
Also, UK NeoGaffers older then 18, apply here for a chance to win your trip to Silverstone at Wednesday (Twitter contest ending today):
http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/storie...chance-for-an-amazing-gran-turismo-experience
I don't have any faith in them because the game wasn't an improvement over GT5
Well, as I said, you could create a game that beats GT5 hands down without going near the graphics.
Oh shit, got to get a twitter account!
Metalmurphy
Member
"We’ll see you at Silverstone."
Oh shit!
*edit* Fuck the no standard cards in GT6 news.
Oh shit!
*edit* Fuck the no standard cards in GT6 news.
SolidSnakex
Member
Well, this was Kaz's cover image on his Facebook page (it's currently the 5.15 GT Anniversary image)
I completely forgot about the collaboration between RB and GT. I guess that'll continue to carry over in GT6. They weren't mentioned in the press release, so I guess we could see some other surprises there as well.
There was Auto Union Type C in GT4, I still can't get over it not been ported as Standard in GT5.
I don't have any faith in them because the game wasn't an improvement over GT5
Because GT 5
rologue used 2xMSAA where GT 5 uses 2xQAA in '1080p' mode. 720p is the same 4x MSAA in both games.flipswitch
Member
They would've got a good performance boost if they stuck with MLAA over MSAA like many first party studios.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Probably the only major optimization PD could make is to make 720p the only rendering resolution, cut the 4xMSAA that's a major drag on the performance and implement MLAA or something similar. That would give them a very nice performance boost and offload processing time to SPUs.
Metalmurphy
Member
MLAA has a bigger input delay so that will never happen. Specially in a game like GT.
SunhiLegend
Member
I still can't get over these cars not being in the European release of GT3, and never seen again in a GT title.
hmmm. I seem to remember some F1 cars in my GT3 (bought the GT3 Playstation 2 pack)..
Sadly, im sitting in front of 32" monitor with G27 mounted on the table. Any reduction in the resolution will really destroy IQ for me.
I want GT for PS4, with nice 1080p IQ.
Nobody can tell what PD can or can't do with their engine... but I don't see why any other studio in the world can improve its engine and PD could not after 3 years.
I am not hoping great new features but, AT LEAST, graphic optimization and different choices to get a perfectly smooth 60fps with no screen tearing at all.
When you look at technical shortcomings, I can't help thinking that, maybe, they went the wrong way (on some choices) very early and they had to live with it after...
But now, they had all the time needed to correct their "mistakes" or "bad decisions"...
I don't think you can make a game like GT5 and never regret any decision you made in the first place... You learn with the first one... you do better after.
It s like that for everyone, why would PD be so different?
I am not hoping great new features but, AT LEAST, graphic optimization and different choices to get a perfectly smooth 60fps with no screen tearing at all.
When you look at technical shortcomings, I can't help thinking that, maybe, they went the wrong way (on some choices) very early and they had to live with it after...
But now, they had all the time needed to correct their "mistakes" or "bad decisions"...
I don't think you can make a game like GT5 and never regret any decision you made in the first place... You learn with the first one... you do better after.
It s like that for everyone, why would PD be so different?
Evolution_1ne
Banned
What. The. Fuck.
SolidSnakex
Member
What about FXAA?
SunhiLegend
Member
There was this and the 001 version which is the same, but that's it. All the classic F1 cars were removed for the EU release, probably due to licensing, not sure but I remember that being brought up way back.
Metalmurphy
Member
Still slower than MSAA but faster than MLAA. I don't really like how it blurs everything though.
flipswitch
Member
Not as bad as QAA I believe.
velociraptor
Junior Member
SMAA?
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