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AMD/DICE unveil Mantle, a console-like low-level PC graphics API used by Frostbite 3

N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Thanks Garteal and TechSpot: http://www.techspot.com/news/54134-amd-launches-mantle-api-to-optimize-pc-gpu-performance.html

TechSpot said:
We've been told at the GPU14 Tech Day event that the Mantle API is open, so theoretically Nvidia could purpose the technology in their GPUs. It should also make cross-development between PC and console games a lot easier, and also more incredible for those with a high-performance AMD GPU.

More information on Mantle will be available at the AMD Developer Summit in November.
Click to expand...

Why a new API instead of OpenGL you ask?

repi said:
No_Style said:
So... they created another open API. Is OpenGL too much of a clusterfuck for them to commit to the established open standard?
Click to expand...

Using OpenGL would have been a downgrade from using DX11 and we wouldn't solve any of the problems that I mentioned on my slide about what challenges we have on PC. Hence Mantle is needed.
Click to expand...

glide210say.jpg


amd-a18ljsnc.png

amd-a19scs7n.png

amd-a20vzsjo.png


2013-09-25_17-35-31x5s44.jpg

2013-09-25_17-34-37d4szq.jpg
 
G

Gamerloid

Member
I'm guessing this was announced during the AMD event? Never seen a price for those GPUs, but this looks really interesting.

EDIT: Just saw the other thread. I like the pricing.
 
K

KKRT00

Member
Generally its bullshit segregation and new 3dfx Glide.

Plus, is that people with GCN cards will get much better performance in games with Mantle support. 7950 and 7970 will yield You double the framerate in comparison to PS4 version and i wouldnt be surprised if 7850 manage to outperform console version too in many cases, because of stronger CPUs on PC.

The next pros is that It will also shut up all 'coding to metal' bullshit in comparison threads.
 
D

DrSlek

Member
Didn't the tease from yesterday imply there would be news for Linux?

Is any of that relevant to Linux? Because it doesn't seem like it.
 
F

FLAguy954

Junior Member
sangreal said:
I thought we rejected these proprietary APIs back in the Glide days
Click to expand...

TechSpot confirmed that the API is open:
We've been told at the GPU14 Tech Day event that the Mantle API is open, so theoretically Nvidia could purpose the technology in their GPUs. It should also make cross-development between PC and console games a lot easier, and also more incredible for those with a high-performance AMD GPU.

More information on Mantle will be available at the AMD Developer Summit in November.
Click to expand...
 
W

Waaghals

Member
With this and SteamOS it seems like people are bailing from the whole Microsoft ecosystem.

Yes, I know that Mantel runs on windows, but it seems as if everyone is trying to make themselves less reliant on MS.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
How is it bad to have options? Mantle isn't replacing DirectX, it's an option... no different from selecting dx10 binary over a dx11 one.
 
V

velociraptor

Junior Member
KKRT00 said:
Generally its bullshit segregation and new 3dfx Glide.

Plus, is that people with GCN cards will get much better performance in games with Mantle support. 7950 and 7970 will yield You double the framerate in comparison to PS4 version and i wouldnt be surprised if 7850 manage to outperform console version too in many cases, because of stronger CPUs on PC.

The next pros is that It will also shut up all 'coding to metal' bullshit in comparison threads.
Click to expand...
Why can't DICE use this benefit the console versions of the game? Or are they already using low level access?
 
M

Mrbob

Member
This is potentially huge but I want to see the receipts first.

Shame the implementation won't be ready for bf4 launch.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Not using DirectX in Windows is pretty surprising. Cool of DICE to get this up and running. They really seem to be doing great stuff with FB3 for all platforms.
 
M

majik13

Member
velociraptor said:
Why can't DICE use this benefit the console versions of the game? Or are they already using low level access?
Click to expand...

I think they mentioned next gen hardware as well. But I think certain PCs will benefit the most. If i read this correctly.

amd-a20vzsjo.png


the wording is a little odd in the last bullet point, so I am not certain how this pertains to next gen consoles.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
RoboPlato said:
Not using DirectX in Windows is pretty surprising. Cool of DICE to get this up and running. They really seem to be doing great stuff with FB3 for all platforms.
Click to expand...

I'm sure DICE wants it to succeed as much as possible too since it would make coding between the three platforms (PC/PS4/XB1) a lot easier. Microsoft won't like the idea, but every 3rd party developer probably got a little wet watching that announcement.
 
N

No_Style

Member
So... they created another open API. Is OpenGL too much of a clusterfuck for them to commit to the established open standard?

zhorkat said:
I can't wait until Nvidia reveals their competing Core API.
Click to expand...

And it'll be open as well! War of the open standards.
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
Hey look at AMD's doing a real proprietary rendering API after all these years of bullshitting on NV for their proprietary tech.
 
GameSeeker

GameSeeker

Member
It just proves that DirectX can be very high overhead in certain situations.

Far too many folks believe DirectX is some magical, super efficient API, when it isn't. Note that DICE is using this INSTEAD of DirectX 11 on AMD GCN GPU's.
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
This is one of the big reasons why I'm considering AMD for my next set of GPU's. They are back in a big way.
 
T

tipoo

Banned
This I'm excited for. Carmack and other developers often cite the lack of a low level API like this as a reason why consoles can do so much with inferior hardware.
 
T

TheD

The Detective
This is a very bad idea.

If it is AMD only then it splits the market, even if it is not AMD only it would be designed around GCN and thus newer microarchitectures would not support it anymore or would have to have a driver translating (and thus getting rid of performance gains), if Nvidia adds support for it they will also have to translate.
 
R

RibbedHero

Member
Open API? I'm 100% behind this now. AMD taking their role in PC gaming to the next level. Quality. So long as development isn't overly complex, games should support both DX/OGL and Mantle.
 
Proelite

Proelite

Member
KojiKnight said:
I'm sure DICE wants it to succeed as much as possible too since it would make coding between the three platforms (PC/PS4/XB1) a lot easier. Microsoft won't like the idea, but every 3rd party developer probably got a little wet watching that announcement.
Click to expand...

The goal of Directx is providing an unified API for all graphics devices on Windows. I don't see they won't like device manufacturers doing their own driver work etc for their own devices. In fact, I think they'll be quite happy that gaming on Windows will be competitively perf wise with SteamOS if the GPU manufacturers can improve perf on their own without any work on Microsoft's part.
 
Mugatu

Mugatu

Member
Cool, stuff like this is great especially from super tech developers like DICE.

I just wish they'd give mod support to their games.
 
R

repi

Member
No_Style said:
So... they created another open API. Is OpenGL too much of a clusterfuck for them to commit to the established open standard?
Click to expand...

Using OpenGL would have been a downgrade from using DX11 and we wouldn't solve any of the problems that I mentioned on my slide about what challenges we have on PC. Hence Mantle is needed.
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
RibbedHero said:
Open API? I'm 100% behind this now. AMD taking their role in PC gaming to the next level. Quality. So long as development isn't overly complex, games should support both DX/OGL and Mantle.
Click to expand...
Something done by one of two vendors can't be open unless it's completely open source.
Also there is an open API right now. It's called OpenGL and was here since early 90s. Anyone who's interested may learn about ARB board and all the problems surrounding OpenGL evolution to understand why something originating from one competing company won't ever be "open" no matter what they tell you.
 
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