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AMD/DICE unveil Mantle, a console-like low-level PC graphics API used by Frostbite 3
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
I've been an almost exclusive Nvidia user for the past 10 years, but I'm all for anything that gets more performance out of the same hardware. As a gamer first and foremost, my primary concern is performance. If Battlefield 4 runs (for example) 20% faster under Mantle on the same hardware versus DirectX, then why wouldn't I want it? There's no need to hold back powerful hardware on account of making Microsoft or the Khronos Group upset.
Of course, this is AMD we're talking about (even if DICE is involved). I'm gonna take Mantle with a boulder sized grain of salt until I see more from their developer's conference.
Of course, this is AMD we're talking about (even if DICE is involved). I'm gonna take Mantle with a boulder sized grain of salt until I see more from their developer's conference.
ccctrlaltdelete
Banned
Nvidia + "open"? I don't think the 2 go together. I mean look at physx, isn't the gpu-accelerated part of physx still Nvidia only? And considering how long physx been around, I doubt if nvidia were to release some new tech, that they would make it "open".
Proelite
Member
Why would Microsoft be upset if AMD does work to make games perform better on Windows? This will be helpful in making Windows stay relevant for gaming in the post-SteamOS days.
Our savior!
Will Mantle be used for Xbox one and PS4 to speed up the developement?
Xbox and PS4 development will be way more low level than Mantle, and each will be using a different API.
It'll all unfold on Friday hopefully. The last piece in Valve's plans.
RibbedHero
Member
Eh, I see it more like DX, except its maintained by AMD rather than MS. Do correct me if I'm wrong, it's been years since the API wars and I can't remember them well at all.
I havent said, it didnt have merit, just 2 times or more performance benefits was bullshit.
It's only an option if the developer makes it an option, which means coding for both renderers. Games written for dx10 run on dx11 hardware without any additional work, so that is not the same at all. I doubt we'll see too much Mantle-exclusive titles, but it becomes a mess when nVidia inevitably releases their own proprietary api. Glide was also optional
Do we know if developers can use Mantle for Linux? Microsoft will probably care if DICE's collaboration with AMD on this combined with a collaboration with Valve leads to Battlefield 4 for SteamOS.
Damn. Respect for you and your Team and engineers from AMD/Ati. It is planned also for other platforms like Linux ? Maybe Steam OS "winkwink"
I assure you, the game will run the same for you whether Mantle exists or not.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Yes it absolutely does. Especially if the same Mantle tech is applied to consoles which already allow for low level access. I'm not sure if this will benefit consoles as much as PC though.
Proelite
Member
Battlefield 4 for SteamOS is coming. That's inevitable. Mantle might help Windows match SteamOS perf wise.
This needs to be added to the OP. Thanks for some insight repi.
Will it? I thought they would probably just use the low level APIs already available on the consoles and this is just to be able to bring some of that extra optimization to AMD GPUs.
I don't think that is true. Mantle is suggested to simply cut DirectX/OpenGL bullshit where consoles don't need to do that in first place (since they have their own low level API)
soundahfekz
Member
wiiuwindow.jpg
angular graphics
Banned
Pretty much what I think.
Here I was hoping for some BF4 console upgrades down the line.
mhayze
Member
This is probably the most meaningful announcement I've seen from AMD to combat nVidia... on the PC side (including Linux/SteamOS). On the consoles, all it means is that developers have an option (I presume) to build their cross-platform titles on a relatively low-level API that's still cross-platform. Big deal. I would be astonished if a platform-dedicated title (like a first party title) writing to the platform-specific API on either PS4 or Xbox One couldn't do better than this API, especially as time goes on.
On the PC, however, this has the potential of being better than DX11 / OGL AND supporting Linux/SteamOS (and OSX?) with a low level API. The big question mark is performance, not just on the new GPUs, but on APUs and older chips.
On the PC, however, this has the potential of being better than DX11 / OGL AND supporting Linux/SteamOS (and OSX?) with a low level API. The big question mark is performance, not just on the new GPUs, but on APUs and older chips.
Felix Lighter
Member
As a HD7970 owner and a Battlefield fan, I can't help but be super curious of how this works out in BF4 and at the same time I'm nervous about the possibility of competing proprietary APIs.
Its the other way around, anything coded on consoles for low level access on GCN GPUs will benefit Mantle. Also all custom GCN functions used in consoles ports will benefit Mantle.
Mantle though wont benefit consoles at all.
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Better be near 100% chance of Nvidia using Mantle.
Very low chance of changing OS though.
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Will be interesting to see reaction of Crytek to this, they've been calling for low-level access or even extended DX fuctions for years.
So, I guess this means no "Steambox" support from DICE, then? No Linux/OpenGL support and Mantle more than likely won't be ported to Linux.
Yeah, not sure I agree with liquid either
Consoles already don't have DX to contend with. This seems more like bringing the same level optimization consoles enjoy, to the PC. Hope nVIDIA takes advantage too.
I hope it happen. DirectX is reason why there is no proper gaming on Linux or other PC platforms. With proper advanced low level API which could support multiple platforms things sure would change a lot.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Will this Mantle tech be any use for my 6950 or will this only benefit the newer AMD cards?
If it is a low level API built around the architecture of GCN, the answer is 0% (not unless in a few years time we want an API built around on old graphics architecture holding back newer cards).
angular graphics
Banned
Good luck with that.
Moral Panic
Member
They seem to has been talking about needing something like this fore a good while: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/03/16/farewell-to-directx/1
Let's see how nVidia responds.
Let's see how nVidia responds.
Giant Panda
Member
How is the API open if its specifically made for AMD's GCN?
Felix Lighter
Member
I don't see EA joining Valve with the SteamOS charge early on. Linux Origin will only exist if there is an existing consumer base.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Thanks for the responses. I'm not a true expert on this but I'm definitely excited to see what comes of it. I do see this as a big thing for PC though but can only hope consoles see extra games which use Mantle.
PuppetMaster
Member
If it really is low level it will be chip specific or at least family specific.
But this also means that you will eventually lose BC down the line too.
Point of new API is to be better than DirectX or OpenGL. To get most of GPU/CPU. They wouldn't be creating new API over 10% upgrade in performance.
which1spink
Banned
angular graphics
Banned
Right now I think the same way once nvidia responded "PhysX is an open API and if AMD want to they should contact us to discuss selling it to them".
Aka bullshit.
It supports multiple platforms so long as you use an AMD GPU that uses their current GCN architecture.
It really depends what they mean by low level. It doesn't need to go completely to metal as illustrated on slides.
This is awesome news. AMD is creating brand new low level efficient API that will take full advantage from ther CPU/GPU hardware, enabling developers to finally stop using very inefficient Direct X. Hopefully developers will embrace this API when porting their console games [that already run with ultra fast and efficient APIs ] to PC.
290X will be around Titan using DX11 [for way less money], but with Mantle, I expect that it will be much more efficient with very noticeable increase in rendering speed.
290X will be around Titan using DX11 [for way less money], but with Mantle, I expect that it will be much more efficient with very noticeable increase in rendering speed.
Axonometri
Member
Is AMD intending to use this as a multi-platform API? I am not understanding fully what the intentions are for Mantle just yet. I keep reading various different aspects. Would this be open to everything from SteamOS to new consoles? If they pushed that, it could be huge step in a different direction.
Exactly. It's a bottleneck.
angular graphics
Banned
How about you respond to the "is the list for real?" questions you got, this time, though?
You are suggesting that Mantle is exclusive which is not (rumored) also Mantle is an OPTION. It doesn't mean there won't be DirectX version of every game.
Back in Glide days most of games had in options three choices :
DirectX
OpenGL
Glide.
Most of the time Glide smoked everything else out of water if you had Voodoo. I don't see any problem going back to this. People who will choose GCN GPU they will have option to enjoy their games with better performance meanwhile people who have other GPUs they will just play via directX like they used to.