SEGAvangelist
Member
Seeing smoother motion of course. That's great for sports.
I'm curious about this as well. What's the point if it's just a few games a year?
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Xbox One will provide live NFL games at a blazing 60fps
- Thread starter statham
- Start date
Seeing smoother motion of course. That's great for sports.
I'm curious about this as well. What's the point if it's just a few games a year?
Without knowing their codec, and without seeing a report on the quality, we won't know. Going years back, something like DivX was able to produce the same image quality as MPEG-2 at 1/8th the bitrate, so it's not unbelievable. We don't have reason to think the NFL would jump into an exclusive contract like this without a competitive solution.
iamshadowlark
Banned
I guess this is a new way to watch the games live. If anybodie's interested, most football and NBA games are available at 720p60 to stream/download at various third party sites. I don't know the legality of the situation so I'm not going to link anything, but yeah it's out there and it's glorious.
Because only Fox and ESPN actually broadcast in 720p so only football on those channels are in 60 FPS. Games on CBS, Sunday Night Football on NBC, and Thursday night Football on NFL Network all broadcast in 1080i.
720p has nothing to do with framerate.
iamshadowlark
Banned
I don't think they broadcast at 60 frames though.
TheLegendary
Member
This is going to be great. I hope they expand a lot of the features of the NFL app. I think a lot of their vision for the experience hasn't been realized yet. Adding advantages like this will be enticing. 60fps for sports is amazing.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Especially considering how much money they spent on the deal.
infinityBCRT
Member
I'm watching hockey right now at 720p, 5mbps through the Xbox 360 NHL Gamecenter app (easily one of the best sports streaming apps ever made btw-- the Gamecenter app on other platforms is not nearly as good), there's no macroblocking.
infinityBCRT
Member
Ugh. Seriously? YES. They broadcast in 60. ALL live sports are broadcast in 60 in North America. As I previously explained in the thread, even 1080i broadcasts are 60FPS, not 30.
Angelus Errare
Banned
lmao, you already know the answer to this.
Since your premise is that a 30 fps signal is being converted to 60 fps...you aren't understanding something about what you're saying. If the speed were being doubled, what you're saying could be true, but you're confusing 29.97 fps video running at 60 hz with a 60 fps signal.
Marty Chinn
Member
I think people are making this a bigger deal than it is. For decades, we've watched sports and live events with 60 updates a second. We've also played games this way long before HDMI and HD resolution. You've more or less experienced what the higher framerate is like. The only thing changing here is that you're getting full frame resolution now.
N0REGARD4L1FE
Banned
infinityBCRT
Member
I don't know if you're confused or getting into a semantic argument or what, but let me try to clarify the original explanation.
Like I mentioned before, most stations broadcast in 720p60 or 1080i60.
In both cases you can push 24FPS, 30FPS and 60FPS content through.
Obviously there's judder thats introduced with 24FPS unless you have a 120hz panel which is smart enough to recognize the 24FPS content and display it correctly. On a 720p broadcast it's already a progressive signal. On a 1080i60 broadcast, it comes in as interlaced but all of the information to reconstruct it as a 1080p video is there. Modern TV's are able to apply some processing to get it to it's original progressive state-- there's no information lost. So even thou it's a 1080i60 broadcastyou're essentially seeing a 1080p24 brodcast on a 1080p panel.
For 30FPS it's pretty much the same deal except there's no judder introduced since 30 fits into 60hz evenly (every frame is displayed twice).
For 60FPS on a 720p signal, it's straight forward, every frame is a unique progressive image.
For 60FPS on a 1080i signal, the way it works is that there are 60 frames of information, but the even frames only contain image information for horizontal lines 1, 3, 5, 7, ... 1077, 1079 and the odd frames contain image information for horizontal lines 2, 4, 6, 8, .... 1078, 1080. On an old school CRT HDTV what would happen is that it literally would display only the odd lines one frame, and then the even lines the next frame. Since the lines that information was being displayed on were alternating so fast, it would trick your brain into thinking you were seeing a progressive image and it would look pretty good. On a fixed pixel display (like LCD) they can't really do that-- you'd see way too much flicker from the image and it would look bad. So instead they have algorithms which for the even frames will fill in the information for lines 2, 4, 6, 8, .... 1078, 1080 based on the previous frame's lines of 2, 4, 6, 8, .... 1078, 1080, the current frame's lines of 1, 3, 5, 7, ... 1077, and the next frame's lines of 2, 4, 6, 8, .... 1078, 1080. And for the odd frames it will fill in the info for 2, 4, 6, 8, .... 1078, 1080 using a similar technique. Yes its interpolation going on, but its not interpolating a 30FPS signal into a 60FPS progressive signal. Its interpolating a 60FPS interlaced signal into a 60FPS progressive signal. And what your eyes see on your TV is literally a 60FPS progressive signal.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Cool, but why not 1080p? I'd have to guess the blame falls on the broadcaster as there isn't anything to render on the console side.
infinityBCRT
Member
You need at least 5MBPS to get a decent 720p60 signal. It would probably take 10MBPS to do it at 1080p. Not worth it because most people's internet probably can't do 10MBPS, and even if it can, their wireless router setup would also be problematic in terms of getting that type of bandwidth consistently. And plus as others have mentioned most sports broadcasts are in 720p anyway.
Unknown Soldier
Member
In this thread, people fail to understand the difference between 60 interlaced fields per second and 30 or 60 progressive frames per second.
Broadcast HD 720p is 60 progressive frames per second, 1080i is 60 interlaced fields per second. For sports broadcasting the signal is always natively 60p or 60i in North America.
The Xbone is not doing anything unique or interesting here. You can watch the NFL every Sunday for the price of a $30 antenna because the NFL is the only professional sport still broadcasted over the air by local network affiliate stations. If you want to spend $500 for an inferior game console to watch the NFL instead of spending $400 on a PS4 which is superior as a game console and $30 on an antenna to get the same 720p or 1080i then great job there sparky. MS is over delivering on value as usual.
Broadcast HD 720p is 60 progressive frames per second, 1080i is 60 interlaced fields per second. For sports broadcasting the signal is always natively 60p or 60i in North America.
The Xbone is not doing anything unique or interesting here. You can watch the NFL every Sunday for the price of a $30 antenna because the NFL is the only professional sport still broadcasted over the air by local network affiliate stations. If you want to spend $500 for an inferior game console to watch the NFL instead of spending $400 on a PS4 which is superior as a game console and $30 on an antenna to get the same 720p or 1080i then great job there sparky. MS is over delivering on value as usual.
Marty Chinn
Member
We've had it for decades. It's nothing new. It's amazing how Microsoft's marketing is working and how much Peter Jackson and interpolated video from HDTVs have fucked up the understanding.
nillapuddin
Member
will sell my soul to get ala carte NFL package next season
I have Sunday Ticket, I have DirecTV, I have Xbox One, I have no way of them playing nice with eachother
Next Season:
Sunday Ticket App plz, link to account, 60 fps, Snap Mode, Redzone Channel = life fulfilled
I have Sunday Ticket, I have DirecTV, I have Xbox One, I have no way of them playing nice with eachother
Next Season:
Sunday Ticket App plz, link to account, 60 fps, Snap Mode, Redzone Channel = life fulfilled
SenjutsuSage
Banned
It might look strange for a fantasy movie with magic, hobbits and dragons, but it should be fantastic for real life events, such as sports.
infinityBCRT
Member
Currently have my Apple TV hooked into my HDMI in on the Xbox One so that I can watch NHL games while playing Dead Rising 3
. There's definitely a framerate drop when you snap TV though, and also a weird big overscan gutter. Hoping for a native app soon which will avoid these issues.lensoftruth
Member
He isn't, most sports are recorded in 1080i 50/60 (50 for PAL land, 60 for NTSC land), each interlaced frame is unique.
SMH.
If you actually go to a football game, it will be infinite FPS. Does that look bizarre?
maverick40
Junior Member
But what about games?
Will this happen in Europe?
Will this happen in Europe?
Unknown Soldier
Member
Too bad sports has always been broadcast in 60 fields per ssecond since the inception of TV sports. Original NTSC is 480i60. ATSC is 720p60 or 1080i60 and sports broadcasts use the full 60p or 60i, unlike most pre recorded content like movies and sitcoms.
If it's the Raven's playing in those ugly black pants or the Steelers in their bumble bee thowbacks? Then yes.
So basically it's Microsoft selling us nothing.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Correct.
The thread title should be changed to "MS offers the same thing that broadcast TV has had for nearly a century now".
dynamitejim
Member
ESPN, ABC, and FOX already broadcast at 720p60. NBC, CBS and pretty much all other channels broadcast at 1080i60 which gets de-interlaced to 1080p60 by your TV or TV viewing software on your PC. I don't see why Digital trends is stating this as some awesome exclusive.
It doesn't work like that
Whoa. turns out Nostradamus is a GAFfer
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=97901693&postcount=2086
Still, is this likely to be US only / require more money or a Gamepass subscription? Heck, even if it's a glorified Gamepass type thing it'd still do quite well outside the US - I know a couple of people that would be all over this.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=97901693&postcount=2086
Still, is this likely to be US only / require more money or a Gamepass subscription? Heck, even if it's a glorified Gamepass type thing it'd still do quite well outside the US - I know a couple of people that would be all over this.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Isn't the 60fps referring to the quality of the internet stream? OTA/sat/cable live broadcast events are always 60fps.
infinityBCRT
Member
I don't use Sunday Ticket but I'm guessing the big deal here is Neulion & Microsoft are putting in the infrastructure to step up the streams from 30FPS to 60FPS. Neulion already did this last year for the NHL Gamecenter streams... and I think it happened close to around the time that the 360 app was released so maybe MS had a hand in that as well.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
True. How many programs on TV right now are in 1080p native?
I'm not sure where you are getting your info from, but North American television broadcasts are 30 frames per second, not 60. Could you source where you're getting this 60fps from?
Its pretty damn funny.
infinityBCRT
Member
Scripted TV dramas are almost all 24FPS (Game of Thrones, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, CSI, etc). They may be broadcast through a 1080i60 signal, but your TV can convert that to a native 1080p24 signal with no loss of information from the original picture.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The reason Internet streams standardized on 30fps is to save bandwidth. There is no technical reason why they couldn't be 60fps. At 30fps YouTube is already singlehandedly responsible for 75% of North American Internet traffic.
Thanks, that was educational and fun read.
I'm not a huge sports fan, but i like to get "smarter every day"