CrustyBritches
Gold Member
This is a build aimed at matching a PS4Pro, which also uses Amd CPU/GPU.
What do you recommend in the $90-new price range from Intel?
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Battlefield 1 at 4K - $450 PC vs PS4 Pro - The Potato Masher Pro
- Thread starter LelouchZero
- Start date
What do you recommend in the $90-new price range from Intel?
mcz117chief
Member
Plenty of weird stuff happening around the world, I can believe anything these days.
icecold1983
Member
spend more and buy an intel. the consoles dont have to worry about amds extremely cpu inefficient dx11 driver
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I'd argue they do from the benchmarks I've seen.
Anyway, what CPU do you recommend and the price new?
michaelius
Banned
That reeks of desperation to prove a point.
Those are 6 or 7 years old parts at this point of time and while cpu is still fine (if overclocked it can beat most of what Amd sells today) but with mainboard it's asking for troubles and finding replacement one is getting expensive.
The series started when PS4 was released. 2500k wasn't $80 used like it is now. But yeah if you don't like to tinker it's best not to go that many sockets back.
icecold1983
Member
i3 6100 at the absolute minimum
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
So about $675 is where my build would land. Not too bad. Thanks.
As of 2016, I think people have laptops / tablets for basic productivity.
I respectfully disagree.
What people are arguing is that when you're building a PC using donated and used parts, you're not providing an accurate evaluation of the real-world costs involved in building a 4K capable PC. Comparison's are built on a principle of objectivity, and when the information provided is misleading, it undermines the very purpose of the comparison. For example, if I said "My $4.99 PS4 Pro beats a $9.99 PC", the responses would be "$4.99 PS4 Pro where?" and "What kind of PC costs $9.99.?" People would point out that the comparison I have made isn't reliable because it does not use the average cost of entry for those platforms. The majority of people are not going to be able to acquire a $4.99 PS4 Pro or a $9.99 PC.
The reason console-only gamers are positive when they learn that the Pro version comes close to the PC version is because they know that by buying the console version, they aren't buying into a noticeably inferior experience. Console versions will almost always be inferior to the PC version, so the hope is that the differences between the console and PC version do not make the console version a regrettable purchase. $60 is a lot of money for a game, so it makes sense that people would want the best bang for their buck. Personally, I think if people want the best value for their games then PC is the way to go. But I realize that a lot of people might not have the time, money, and capabilities to build a gaming PC.
Furthermore, I don't understand why people are dismissing the comments from European gamers. When people in Europe point out that it's next to impossible to build a gaming PC for $450 in their respective country, they're not trying to undermine the Potato Masher comparison by providing misleading information. They're simply pointing out that the cost(s) of building a PC outside of the US are, on average, higher than building the same PC in the US.
I don't think this needs mentioning, but when people say "PS4 is a beast", that shouldn't upset you: it's a long-running joke. I think the joke originated (correct me if I'm wrong) via the announcement of 8GB GDDR5 RAM in the console. I believe it was Shinobi who was the first to call it a beast.
Hah no one uses desktops anymore but gamers. I hate these potato series because they are bad pcs and the pricing is misleading. Anyone who wants to get into pc gaming should not go so low. 2k is overpowered but you should expect to pay at least 600+ for anything worthwhile.
Though i agree that it's not a fair comparison, i did the same 2 years ago.
A new 4 core oc-able Intel cpu/mobo combo would have cost me triple the amount i paid and the AMD solution would have resulted in double amount with less power.
Equanimity
Member
Well said!
Sad Affleck
Member
You are completely missing the point of these comparisons. You are treating them as buying advice when they are anything but.
Pakoe
Member
Tried doing the same for dutch prices:
i5 750: €20.
Arctic Alpine 11 PLUS: €12,51.
Asus H61M-K: €73,99.
Mushkin Proline 8GB DDR3 PC3-10666: €47,88.
Asus GeForce GTX 1060 Strix 6gb OC edition: €250.
Be Quiet Pure Power L7 430W: €35.
WD 320GB HDD: €18.
Tacens Mars Gaming Case: €26,95.
Windows 10 Home N: €23,76.
All that for a total of:
€508,09
I can get a PS Pro for €399.
A 5 year old Intel quadcore is honestly a much better choice for a very cheap gaming machine than anything AMD offers right now. This might change in 2017, but it's clearly the case right now.
Seriously, I can't really imagine using a tablet for productive work -- I have a hard enough time with a laptop but at least in that case I can imagine it works for other professions.
Really?
Seriously, I can't really imagine using a tablet for productive work -- I have a hard enough time with a laptop but at least in that case I can imagine it works for other professions.
Most people use tablets and laptops, not desktops.
Sad Affleck
Member
He's still making the standard Potato Masher videos, there are comparisons for many recent games like Battlefield 1 and Titanfall 2. Most of the time the Masher wins but there are exceptions, usually games where the port is bad.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Very light productivity maybe but if you work in tech, something with moderate data processing or anything that isn't very simplistic you need at least a laptop.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I guess it depends on what kind of work you're talking about.
My father in law is a real-estate agent, buying/selling that kind of crap and he's always glued to his samsung tablet, even if at family gatherings or dinners etc.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
I've seen this video before, but since he doesn't do a 1:1 comparison, it's pretty useless.
Still, cool to see a cheap PC do the trick.
Still, cool to see a cheap PC do the trick.
TheExecutive
Member
If you build a PC for one game. Buying an 1156 motherboard would be a huge mistake this day and age.
I know I wouldn't want to work with Solidworks or Mastercam on a tablet or even a laptop any time soon.
Sometimes price to performance ratio and ease of repair trumps portability.
Darkroronoa
Member
wow some of these posts 
Its pretty great that you can build a cheap rig with a little time investing, its one of the reason i play on PC since i can upgrade it whenever i feel the need. Selling old parts and buying upgrades its fun for me.
Many of us have already decent PC's that only need a GPU upgrade, for the rest a little search for used parts with a mix of new and they can build a decent rig. The point is you dont need a big budget if you are willing to do a little shopping more. Going and buying the console is sure much easier but a PC can offer you more.
In my opinion even 100-150€ more than a pro is a money saver if you consider the money you save from games and online subscription. But i understand that looking at the initial cost PS4Pro look much cheaper. Consoles are great for people who play a few games per year, from my experience if you play lots of games and do online gaming a PC makes mroe sense.
Its pretty great that you can build a cheap rig with a little time investing, its one of the reason i play on PC since i can upgrade it whenever i feel the need. Selling old parts and buying upgrades its fun for me.
Many of us have already decent PC's that only need a GPU upgrade, for the rest a little search for used parts with a mix of new and they can build a decent rig. The point is you dont need a big budget if you are willing to do a little shopping more. Going and buying the console is sure much easier but a PC can offer you more.
In my opinion even 100-150€ more than a pro is a money saver if you consider the money you save from games and online subscription. But i understand that looking at the initial cost PS4Pro look much cheaper. Consoles are great for people who play a few games per year, from my experience if you play lots of games and do online gaming a PC makes mroe sense.
Most of the world doesn't care, that's why things like Surface and iPad exist, because pc is no longer dominant.
Am I the only one who finds the whole potato meme to be the work of immature, PC gaming children lacking in wit? The work of a child/manchild who feels owning a PC is a status symbol, making them superior over others who happen to own a console.
I say this as someone who owns a 6700K/1080 GTX & enjoys playing games on my PS4 Pro and XO.
Darkroronoa
Member
Its just a joke at this point, it always was a joke i think, more of a way to poke console players and "trigger" them. And probably attracts more views so many youtubers etc still use these phrases and "memes".
We're talking basic home productivity here though, I figured CAD/CAM work would be done on your employer's provided workstations.
For enterprise stuff like Oracle and SAP, definitely I prefer laptop. Bring to meetings, to datacenters, client's place, project room, VPN from home because I ain't lugging my gaming desktop to IT security office to get vetted for it.
Sad Affleck
Member
It's a joke dude, you're taking this way too seriously.
The Faceless Master
Member
over $500 after shipping and the RAM ships from China via carrier pigeon and arrives in February.
I assume that when you put a dollar sign in front of an item, you're now dealing with a past, present, or future transaction. I could be wrong, but looking at the YouTube comments by the creator of the video, he's clearly offering buying advice by providing build recommendations and build options.
There's nothing wrong with offering buying advice via comparison videos. For example, let's say you've studied WW1 and you're interested in playing BF1. If you're searching for a platform to play the game at it's best -- in 4K with all of the bells and whistles -- and you come across the Potato Masher videos, the insight on the games performance on the Pro vs PC might be exactly what you're looking for.
Sad Affleck
Member
Dear God no, anyone who recommends this kind of build is not to be taken seriously. This is a fun experiment and it is useful for PC gamers thinking about upgrading an older system or console gamers still mistakenly believing that you need a $1500 PC at the bare minimum. Noone would recommend that you go and buy a Core i5 750 in this day and age.
These videos are great because they dispel the myth that consoles represent much better value than PC. It's useful information that PC hardware might be more expensive out the gate but much of it will survive multiple upgrades and still continue to offer great performance for many years.
Look at it this way. The original Potato Masher would have cost somewhere in the region of $700-800 if it was bought new back when its parts were still somewhat fresh in the market. It would have cost up to double the money of a new games console, maybe more. Anyone looking at just the upfront cost would reach the conclusion that the console is better value. That's not looking at the whole picture. Not only do you get significantly higher performance with a PC, many parts survive multiple upgrades and the PC saves you money over the long term. It's an investment that pays off over time and the Potato Masher proves it. An old PC provides better performance than the Pro with a $250 upgrade.
This is why taking the comparison at face value is missing the point by miles. If you are actually interested in dabbling in PC gaming these videos show you that your investment is worth it.
mcz117chief
Member
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
??
Well isn't this also part of the issue? We're not asking for one in a life time impossible prices or cdkey grey market keys. These sites should list retail prices!
Aztechnology
Member
It matters not though, we've tried to have budget build threads discussing this with new parts, and linked US, EU, AU part picker lists etc. and people still naysayer unabashedly. I understand in the context of this specific thread/video what you are saying. I'm just saying people here have bought in so heavily to misconceptions around PC in general. Hell we still have threads full of people talking about how "Why would I play on PC when I can play on my couch with a controller." or "Yea but, I don't want to spend $1000+ to get a PS4 equivalent PC." things like that. It's absolutely rampant. I can provide builds for nearly anyone, and yes they are going to be more expensive, but as has been said many times it's not a 1:1 comparison. PC can do many many things a console cannot. Obviously I get the argument that people want to get a PC specifically for gaming so that's all it should be judged on, but I'm just sick of people going "You can't get a PS4 for $400 that is equivalent to the pro, therefore all discussion is moot"
There are still many many use cases where PC is a better value/buy for people. It's just a good option to have and has significantly more robust options than console both at purchase and long term. Why not even consider it? People have a irrational fear of gaming PC's.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
I have a PC myself (i7 6700k, GTX 1070) and a Pro, so best of both worlds but I always find these comparisons a bit off, especially when people start adding up the costs of parts but always leave out stuff like the OS, mouse, keyboard and monitor, which will add more to the cost.
While you could use a TV for the PC, most will use a monitor, so that really shouldn't be left out and while you could argue you need a TV for a console, you don't normally buy a TV just to use with a console, as most people will already have a TV.
But for $399 / £349 the PS4 Pro is great value for what it offers.
While you could use a TV for the PC, most will use a monitor, so that really shouldn't be left out and while you could argue you need a TV for a console, you don't normally buy a TV just to use with a console, as most people will already have a TV.
But for $399 / £349 the PS4 Pro is great value for what it offers.
Aztechnology
Member
So we should include a TV into a console purchase then by the same merit?
Anyway, here's the minimum I would personally recommend (Above the Pro by a margin obviously, but mainly it's for some future proofing. You could drop the price a bit in regards to RAM, case, HDD and GPU if you want (A 470 would be about Pro Equiv and is like ~$150) I included M/K wireless combo. Didn't include OS just because it's a debatable topic.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Core i3-6100 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor ($109.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI H110M Gaming Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($58.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($82.99 @ Jet)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.78 @ OutletPC)
Case: Deepcool TESSERACT BF ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Rosewill 500W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($44.99 @ Newegg)
Keyboard: Logitech Wireless Combo MK270 Wireless Standard Keyboard w/Optical Mouse ($18.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Other: XFX Radeon RS RX 480 DirectX 12 RX-480P836BM Video Card ($210.00)
Total: $610.72
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-12-31 18:41 EST-0500
UK at a quick look you could go for something like this.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Core i3-6100 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor (£106.99 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: MSI H110M Gaming Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (£59.69 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory (£85.98 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£45.48 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 4GB G1 Gaming Video Card (£187.99 @ CCL Computers)
Case: Fractal Design Core 1100 MicroATX Mini Tower Case (£29.99 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£44.99 @ Amazon UK)
Keyboard: Logitech K270 Wireless Standard Keyboard (£17.40 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £578.51
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-12-31 23:50 GMT+0000
Certainly more expensive, but still very reasonable considering what you're getting. I didn't really look into deals for either tbh. You could probably with some digging find some really great stuff on things like Slickdeals etc. and lower your price even more.
AstroNut325
Member
A little OT, but the prices of used Intel processors are ridiculous. $180 for a 2600K? I can get a 6600K for $210 if I shop around. This is likely due to the lack of adequate competition in the CPU space.
Aztechnology
Member
Or people overvalue their hardware excessively into territory it will never sell at. I know people who do this and always end up trying to get near paid value from their old parts, never sell them, and end up tossing them out later or donating them to family/friends.
My guess is they usually sell around $100-120.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-...596929?hash=item1c78ab9c81:g:0cQAAOSwnHZYXxt0
Sad Affleck
Member
Not at all, as long as you understand what is being compared and why.
Honestly, going off this thread, I feel it's doing the complete opposite. You pay $700-$800 for a system, then $250 more to upgrade it to outperform a $400 console?
What is even being shown in the OP's video if not comparing the performance of two "similiarly" priced systems?
Sad Affleck
Member
In the case of the PS4 and PS4 Pro it is to significantly outperform two $400 consoles. The idea is that if you opted to build a good gaming PC instead of buying a PS4 at launch you can easily stay ahead of the upgraded PS4 Pro with a simple GPU upgrade. This is what the video shows you. The upfront cost of a PC might seem scary to consumers used to the razors-and-razorblades model of console gaming but over time it is actually as good if not better value for money.
The video creator even says so in his intro. The point of his videos is to show that PC gaming can offer as good or even better value for money than consoles, not to push any sort of PC master race narrative. There are a lot of people who are completely misinformed on the topic of PC gaming costs, there's nothing wrong with letting them know that PC gaming isn't just about monster rigs. PC gaming on a budget is absolutely possible when one overcomes the initial sticker shock.
The ONLY fair comparison is retail vs retail...You will always be able to find random crazy deals, loop holes, pricing errors, whatever...but the basis of the comparison HAS to be what the item is readily selling for on the market...Random flash sales, used/refurbished parts or Black Friday deals should not even be considered...
You're 100% correct, but in my opinion, it does more damage to the cause than good when you deliberately skew the argument by using used components, or eBay prices, or anything along those lines...
IF you approach it from the value standpoint that you describe, it makes sense, and you might be able to start to make people understand the value proposition of PC gaming, but being disingenuous by saying I gave the security guard at the Intel labs a $5 bill and he let me look through the trash and I found an i7 CPU someone accidentally threw out, so the CPU cost of my build is only $5 is only going to piss people off...
You're 100% correct, but in my opinion, it does more damage to the cause than good when you deliberately skew the argument by using used components, or eBay prices, or anything along those lines...
IF you approach it from the value standpoint that you describe, it makes sense, and you might be able to start to make people understand the value proposition of PC gaming, but being disingenuous by saying I gave the security guard at the Intel labs a $5 bill and he let me look through the trash and I found an i7 CPU someone accidentally threw out, so the CPU cost of my build is only $5 is only going to piss people off...
SunhiLegend
Member
Pretty much.
The initial cost of a PC is higher but over time jumping from generations usually just requires a GPU upgrade which doesn't cost much especially if your target is to just beat out the console performance.
My PC cost about £350 to build new 8 years ago AMD 955 HD 4870, it was specifically built to play multi platform games higher than what the PS360 were capable of and it did it's job, last year all I did was spent £70 on a GTX 760 and £20 on a RAM upgrade and now I'm running games higher than the PS4. That's a total of around £450 over 8 years to beat console performance and my system should stay ahead of the PS4 for it's lifetime, talking at least 2-3 more years. The inital cost was about £150 more than the PS3 at the time but overtime it's defintely been worth it.
My PC was more than $2500 more than a PS4 Pro.
And I've still got a PS4 pro.
You won't catch flying aids by owning a console.