Well the items are all ways of interacting with the Cthulu superfriends and you use it as a medium for magic. I assumed everyone noticed that "magic" in this game is just a product of the Cthulu team.
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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
Well the items are all ways of interacting with the Cthulu superfriends and you use it as a medium for magic. I assumed everyone noticed that "magic" in this game is just a product of the Cthulu team.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I just wanted to post this here.
I actually immediately and instantly thought of this the 1st time I met her
Dwight Schrute
Member
I went to the Vicar amelia room, and Eileen was there and hostile. I had to flee since she was kicking my ass, I now I can't even use the lamp to tp there.
why does she become hostile ?
She was nice to me
why does she become hostile ?
She was nice to me
I went to the Vicar amelia room, and Eileen was there and hostile. I had to flee since she was kicking my ass, I now I can't even use the lamp to tp there.
why does she become hostile ?
She was nice to me
happens if you ignore her quest despite talking with her after killing Vicar Amelia
My favorite hat, the Cage, says in the description that it's an antenna used to contact the Great Ones. It's used by the school of Mensis, which broke off from Byrgenwerth, to communicate with them, and you can see those helmets all around Yahargul with commoners worshiping burnt out bodies with those cages. It's clear that contact with the Great Ones is too taxing for humans, as seen by the charred corpse that teaches you 'Make Contact' gesture. The sack guys are clearly evolved Mensis scholars then.
One interesting bit about moon and birth is the part where One Reborn is birthed out of the bloody moon. Guess that was Mensis' approach to making an infant Great One. Out of the others, Ebrietas is somehow 'abandoned' under the cathedral while the high priests of the Choir and the Healing Church were somehow still cosy with Celestial Emissary in their garden. All arcane magic in the game is clearly from these ones, with the Exploding Star magic from Celestials and the the tentacle attack from Ebrietas.
The mechanics between blood and insight are interesting as well. Insight lets you communicate with the Great Ones but the higher it is, the further you are from beasts and vice versa.
One interesting bit about moon and birth is the part where One Reborn is birthed out of the bloody moon. Guess that was Mensis' approach to making an infant Great One. Out of the others, Ebrietas is somehow 'abandoned' under the cathedral while the high priests of the Choir and the Healing Church were somehow still cosy with Celestial Emissary in their garden. All arcane magic in the game is clearly from these ones, with the Exploding Star magic from Celestials and the the tentacle attack from Ebrietas.
The mechanics between blood and insight are interesting as well. Insight lets you communicate with the Great Ones but the higher it is, the further you are from beasts and vice versa.
I'm actually rather curious of Hunters that predate the Healing Church.
There's the powder kegs, who're considered heretical due to their compassion.
Hunter of Hunters, who seek to end those who've gone mad from blood
Vilebloods whose origins are from the Cainhurst Nobility and are directly opposed to the Church
and Executioners who both helped establish the Healing Church and oppose the Vilebloods
There's the powder kegs, who're considered heretical due to their compassion.
Hunter of Hunters, who seek to end those who've gone mad from blood
Vilebloods whose origins are from the Cainhurst Nobility and are directly opposed to the Church
and Executioners who both helped establish the Healing Church and oppose the Vilebloods
Coldblood Dew -
"Droplet of coldblood containing Blood Echoes.
Use to gain Blood Echoes.
Hunters sustained by the dream gain strength from Blood Echoes. They imbibe the blood with thoughts of reverence, indeed gratitude, for their victims."
Thick Coldblood-
"A thick droplet of coldblood containing Blood Echoes.
Use to gain a larger amount of Blood Echoes.
A strong will produces thick blood. Doubtless, the product of obsession, a potent source of human strength."
Frenzied Coldblood -
"A rich droplet of coldblood containing Blood Echoes.
Use to gain frenzied Blood Echoes.
This manifestation of madness comes from a mind teetering on the very brink, but has a sane mind ever produced anything of true significance?"
"Droplet of coldblood containing Blood Echoes.
Use to gain Blood Echoes.
Hunters sustained by the dream gain strength from Blood Echoes. They imbibe the blood with thoughts of reverence, indeed gratitude, for their victims."
Thick Coldblood-
"A thick droplet of coldblood containing Blood Echoes.
Use to gain a larger amount of Blood Echoes.
A strong will produces thick blood. Doubtless, the product of obsession, a potent source of human strength."
Frenzied Coldblood -
"A rich droplet of coldblood containing Blood Echoes.
Use to gain frenzied Blood Echoes.
This manifestation of madness comes from a mind teetering on the very brink, but has a sane mind ever produced anything of true significance?"
Nothing1016
Member
Why is Laurence important and how come the dude in the wheel chair knows him?
If I got it right. Laurence is a student of Master Willem who forsook the plight of his teaching and is meant to take Gehrman's place as the keeper of the Hunter's dream.
s'not a church workshop.
Couldn't be. Ludwig's a Church Hunter. The first in fact. I figure the abandoned workshop is Gehrman's
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
I was waiting for this thread.
Couple of questions.
Who is Mergo? Is he the Moon Presence or perhaps Mother Brain?
Kos (or some say Kosm) Seems to be a deity or another Great One. And Ebrietas's title is "Daughter of the Cosmos". Could it be that Ebrietas is Kosm's daughter?
Couple of questions.
Who is Mergo? Is he the Moon Presence or perhaps Mother Brain?
Kos (or some say Kosm) Seems to be a deity or another Great One. And Ebrietas's title is "Daughter of the Cosmos". Could it be that Ebrietas is Kosm's daughter?
ISee
Member
I think insight is a nicer word for insanity, in this game. You get it from madman knowledge, from encountering terrifying beasts and from strange locations or encounters (like seeing a replica of the hunters dream). It even shifts your view of reality multiple times for example you even start to talk to a doll after you gain your first insight. And seeing a doll to come alive is clearly insane...
You also become more 'insane' the more you help people defeating monsters and killing other hunters (co-op and pvp aspect of the game). But why do you loose insanity when you summon someone (for co-op)? That really bothers me, I know it is for gameplay reasons, but there should be a lore explanation...
You also become more 'insane' the more you help people defeating monsters and killing other hunters (co-op and pvp aspect of the game). But why do you loose insanity when you summon someone (for co-op)? That really bothers me, I know it is for gameplay reasons, but there should be a lore explanation...
My personal thoughts on the entire matter.
The dream that the player is experiencing is in the quest for the eldritch truth. When Gehrmann gives you a choice, then you (as the player) can choose the end the hunt for the truth there, or continue the nightmare in search of the truth.
Of course there is only one problem: You don't know what the question is, so how will you ever find the truth. The player must suffer and be confused in order to learn the truth, but what truth is it that the player seeks.
This is very apparent in how the game treats the respawning mechanich, where you "Reawaken" into the same nightmare, knowing that it is a nightmare (The Insight serves as a meter for how aware of this, the player character is)
Now if this is the case, then that is an ingenious way of From saying: Are you willing to go deeper into the rabbit hole or do you want a "happy" ending.
This also explains, why the game progressively becomes more and more insane and convoluted as it progresses, it is actively trying to become incomprehensible to make them want to seek the truth even more.
The "right" thing to do would to actually wake up and live life.
Sorry if it makes no sense, but that's what I've been getting from the game this entire time.
The dream that the player is experiencing is in the quest for the eldritch truth. When Gehrmann gives you a choice, then you (as the player) can choose the end the hunt for the truth there, or continue the nightmare in search of the truth.
Of course there is only one problem: You don't know what the question is, so how will you ever find the truth. The player must suffer and be confused in order to learn the truth, but what truth is it that the player seeks.
This is very apparent in how the game treats the respawning mechanich, where you "Reawaken" into the same nightmare, knowing that it is a nightmare (The Insight serves as a meter for how aware of this, the player character is)
Now if this is the case, then that is an ingenious way of From saying: Are you willing to go deeper into the rabbit hole or do you want a "happy" ending.
This also explains, why the game progressively becomes more and more insane and convoluted as it progresses, it is actively trying to become incomprehensible to make them want to seek the truth even more.
The "right" thing to do would to actually wake up and live life.
Sorry if it makes no sense, but that's what I've been getting from the game this entire time.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
List of Great Ones:
Amygdala
Celestial Emissary
Ebrietas
Rom
Wet Nurse
Oedon
Nightmare Brain
Yharnam (?)
Moon Presence (?)
Amygdala
Celestial Emissary
Ebrietas
Rom
Wet Nurse
Oedon
Nightmare Brain
Yharnam (?)
Moon Presence (?)
daninthemix
Member
Don't know but his and other NPC's dialog is some of the best I've seen in videogames. Absolutely mesmerising.
Johan Liebert
Member
Remember reading a note that said Laurence and his associates beckoned the nameless moon presence. Paleblood.
So the true boss was aka Paleblood and this Laurence guy was the reason it exists?
So the true boss was aka Paleblood and this Laurence guy was the reason it exists?
PleaseBeGentle_
Member
I guess it's because you are no longer the only one experiencing all these weird and crazy encounters. So you think of yourself as less insane?
Insight or knowledge is synonymous with insanity in Bloodborne. It is a lovecraftian concept where just the prospect of gaining knowledge about the great old ones drives people insane.
Paleblood is a general term like Vileblood. The Moon Presence is the Great One that bound Hunters to the Hunter's Dream, which is why in the third ending the Hunter's Dream has not disappeared despite the Moon Presence being presumably dead. You become the Infant Great One (consider the trophy you get "Childhood's Beginning") that everyone wants but you're also likely maintaining the horrible and violent cycle of the hunt and the Great Ones, though it's from a position of power.
(The trophy is also obviously a not-so-subtle reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood's_End)
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
The great mystery is who the fuck was that old man from the very beggining of the game?
already said it couple pages before, but is it not the guy in the chair you see before fighting rom? master willem?
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
No. They don't even look the same.
because he aged? dunno, I have to play the game again.
cheezcake
Member
I was waiting for this thread.
Couple of questions.
Who is Mergo? Is he the Moon Presence or perhaps Mother Brain?
Kos (or some say Kosm) Seems to be a deity or another Great One. And Ebrietas's title is "Daughter of the Cosmos". Could it be that Ebrietas is Kosm's daughter?
I don't think Mergo is either of them. If you read the Umbilical Cord description dropped by Mergo's Wet Nurse
I think the purpose of the School of Mensis is to facilitate the "birth" of a great one through a surrogate. In this case Mergo's child. I do think Kos is the sort of "grand" deity of the cosmos, also Micolash' full dialogue seems to imply that Rom was actually a student of Byrgenwerth who was granted eyes by Kos.
Vacuous basically means stupid so I'm guessing his transformation was somehow imperfect, it does seem it when you compare his "form" with the other great ones. One thing I'm confused about is the Moon Presence, if you read the description of the abandoned workshop umbilical cord.
So the Moon Presence is the source of the dream? But the Hunter stops the birth of the Great Ones so why?
So these are my thoughts so far regarding the lore spark notes version:
People found the bodies of old great ones in the chalice dungeons. Figured they were higher forms of life (like Gods) and wanting to be made in God's image started messing with blood to make it that way and to hopefully gain further insight or knowledge.
As is a theme in Lovecraft stories, this type of "forbidden" knowledge isn't so easily grasped by humans and eventually starts to drive them insane and change them physically into beasts and other semi alien like creatures.
Now this is where it kind of splits into two different thoughts for me:
1) We made contact with aliens through all the weird shit we did with blood and the silly cage helmet stuff. They came and now are using us for reproduction purposes while keeping most of us "sane" through the illusion that they aren't there. Basically a Matrix type setup where people are normally cool with living in the illusion.
As you go through the game you gain further insight and after gaining enough insight "or killing Rom" you start to see all the aliens and weird shit that's going on like some Doctor Who episode.
At the end of the game with the secret ending the moon thing is pissed that you killed other babies or their caretakers (as you ate the umbilical cords from other baby carriers) fights you. It's then revealed at the end that this whole time you were just a little slug thing like everybody else.
2) As you gain further insight and knowledge you yourself start going insane and seeing things like a crazy person. You physically change over time into more and more of a beast through obtaining this forbidden knowledge. At the end of the game the moon thing again is pissed that you killed other slug babies and fights you. At the end your transformation is complete and now your a slug baby because you know too much.
Overly simplified versions obviously but that's the rough version.
People found the bodies of old great ones in the chalice dungeons. Figured they were higher forms of life (like Gods) and wanting to be made in God's image started messing with blood to make it that way and to hopefully gain further insight or knowledge.
As is a theme in Lovecraft stories, this type of "forbidden" knowledge isn't so easily grasped by humans and eventually starts to drive them insane and change them physically into beasts and other semi alien like creatures.
Now this is where it kind of splits into two different thoughts for me:
1) We made contact with aliens through all the weird shit we did with blood and the silly cage helmet stuff. They came and now are using us for reproduction purposes while keeping most of us "sane" through the illusion that they aren't there. Basically a Matrix type setup where people are normally cool with living in the illusion.
As you go through the game you gain further insight and after gaining enough insight "or killing Rom" you start to see all the aliens and weird shit that's going on like some Doctor Who episode.
At the end of the game with the secret ending the moon thing is pissed that you killed other babies or their caretakers (as you ate the umbilical cords from other baby carriers) fights you. It's then revealed at the end that this whole time you were just a little slug thing like everybody else.
2) As you gain further insight and knowledge you yourself start going insane and seeing things like a crazy person. You physically change over time into more and more of a beast through obtaining this forbidden knowledge. At the end of the game the moon thing again is pissed that you killed other slug babies and fights you. At the end your transformation is complete and now your a slug baby because you know too much.
Overly simplified versions obviously but that's the rough version.
Someone else here had this to say about this issue:
I agree mostly although I think you actually become the actual Infant Great One as opposed to becoming a vessel for the Moon Presence's spawn. The Hunter's Dream is maintained despite the Moon Presence's death in the third ending after all.
cheezcake
Member
I'm not entirely sure of you becoming the great one. But yeh given the doll's reaction, "Oh good hunter", and the fact that she must have been created by the Moon Presence along with the rest of the Dream I think she's saying it like her true purpose has been accomplished, the child of the Moon Presence is born.
Wasn't one of the notes you find fairly early on about Rom and seemed to be annoyed that his veil was hiding or preventing the rituals?
Additionally, what's the deal with that friendly spider dude in the lecture hall?
Is anyone else kind of stunned and thrilled that Lovecraftian references / horror make up a big part of such a big game? Never expected it.
Additionally, what's the deal with that friendly spider dude in the lecture hall?
Is anyone else kind of stunned and thrilled that Lovecraftian references / horror make up a big part of such a big game? Never expected it.
I guess I mean a Great One since they're obviously a pantheon of beings. You sort of take up the Moon Presence's role by default since the Hunter's Dream is not dispelled upon its death and there is technically no hunter to be steward over the dream.
Spider dude is patches
Good thing we ran this issue down a few times in here.
Yeah was heading out for work as soon as i saw finished the game, off to read some stuff then
I discovered some more interesting Cainhurst lore. Well, maybe not discover but I didn't realize its connection until now.
Found after the Shadow of Yharnam. I'm guessing those guys were the elite and horny agents of Cainhurst then and basically implied by their name to be an infamous terror on the city. I guess she's also preggers as well? Missed that too.
The "little hope of requitement" is fitting considering you get no reward from the Queen for collecting Blood Dregs for her, other than a gesture.
Found after the Shadow of Yharnam. I'm guessing those guys were the elite and horny agents of Cainhurst then and basically implied by their name to be an infamous terror on the city. I guess she's also preggers as well? Missed that too.
The "little hope of requitement" is fitting considering you get no reward from the Queen for collecting Blood Dregs for her, other than a gesture.
It's definitely not him. The guy at the beginning is just a generic wheelchair guy I think.
Theres a great lore thread on Gamefaqs (heh, I know, I know) that suggests the moon might not be of the same pantheon as the Lovecraftian gods; "Old" but different.
Personally I love the implication of "Insight", that the closer to the truth you get the more mad you've gone and the further apart the fabric of reality is stretched. Calling out to distant worlds and asking for help would reinforce this, while calling out and not getting a response (of any kind) would probably be sobering.
Yharnam is basically Carcosa, and I love it.
Personally I love the implication of "Insight", that the closer to the truth you get the more mad you've gone and the further apart the fabric of reality is stretched. Calling out to distant worlds and asking for help would reinforce this, while calling out and not getting a response (of any kind) would probably be sobering.
Yharnam is basically Carcosa, and I love it.
Interestingly enough, another important game had a King in Yellow...
And lest we forget:
wapplew
Member
Expecting Vanhelsing, get Chutulhu matrix inception.