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"Can We Take a Joke?" - North American Trailer

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M

Mammoth Jones

Member
SatansReverence said:
Really? I made a joke to a female service station attendant about my new car (2007 focus hatch) coming with a pack of tampons and she found it hilarious.

The truth is you hipster princesses do get outraged at fucking nothing. You cant go 5 minutes without trying to find something to be outraged about.
Click to expand...

Preach.

I find in real life folks are much more willing to enjoy a crass joke as long as they know it's just joking and done in good faith.
 
S

Scientist Supreme!

Banned
SatansReverence said:
Really? I made a joke to a female service station attendant about my new car (2007 focus hatch) coming with a pack of tampons and she found it hilarious.

The truth is you hipster princesses do get outraged at fucking nothing. You cant go 5 minutes without trying to find something to be outraged about.
Click to expand...
You could have just used sjw to express your stupidity.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
Mammoth Jones said:
Preach.

I find in real life folks are much more willing to enjoy a crass joke as long as they know it's just joking and done in good faith.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily disagree. But part of me suspects that a lot of this has just as much to do if not more with people just being polite and not wanting to make a scene as it has to do with the fact that people may privately loathe political correctness and the joylessness it brings. And by that I just mean that for all the concern there is out there with people that are eager to be outraged about anything and everything, I think there are also plenty of people out there who just grin and bear it when confronted with awkward stuff that offends them for fear of appearing too sensitive.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
SatansReverence said:
Really? I made a joke to a female service station attendant about my new car (2007 focus hatch) coming with a pack of tampons and she found it hilarious.

The truth is you hipster princesses do get outraged at fucking nothing. You cant go 5 minutes without trying to find something to be outraged about.
Click to expand...

Scientist Supreme! said:
You could have just used sjw to express your stupidity.
Click to expand...

At the risk of appearing too sensitive, can I suggest that we keep things civil here?
 
Jme

Jme

Member
Steve Youngblood said:
Attacking them how? Have these lobbying efforts been successful? Have any venues expressed disappointment that a show that would have otherwise sold well and been profitable and generated solid revenue for both the club and the performer have had to be canceled for no other reason than placating an angry mob? I'm not unwilling to hear counterpoints here, but I'm interested in specific examples of this happening.
Click to expand...

I don't know if the venues have expressed disappointment, but yes, this happens all the time. Listen to interviews, podcasts, radio shows featuring mostly stand ups, and you will see that most of them hate doing college shows, for this very reason. A lot of stories about people with Thursday, Friday, Saturday shows booked and the club cancels their Friday-Saturday (without pay) because someone from their Thursday early show was offended.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
Jme said:
I don't know if the venues have expressed disappointment, but yes, this happens all the time. Listen to interviews, podcasts, radio shows featuring mostly stand ups, and you will see that most of them hate doing college shows, for this very reason. A lot of stories about people with Thursday, Friday, Saturday shows booked and the club cancels their Friday-Saturday (without pay) because someone from their Thursday early show was offended.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to sound incredulous. But I would really like to read more up on this. I'm not saying I refuse to believe that it ever happens. But I'm somewhat skeptical of the idea that someone is going to find themselves in a position -- working as a comedy club owner -- where they'll have to issue refunds or incur bad word of mouth from the majority of paying patrons just to appease a vocal minority (and I mean that in the numbers sense and not the ethnic sense). I'm not trying to be oblivious here, I just feel like I'm missing something in regards to the bully tactics employed by the outraged in question that make them so effective in getting their way.

Because the alternative is that I do think it's possible sometimes that some do exercise their own moral judgment. I'm not saying this is what happens most of the time, but despite the idea that comedy is sacrosanct and beyond criticism, I do think it's possible for owners to recognize that an act isn't bold and pushing the envelope in as much as it's just plain offensive, dumb, and not funny.
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
iddqd said:
Obligatory Patrice O'Neal video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjIuPSuYSOY
Click to expand...
This video is a few years old and we've already seen that he's been proven wrong. We're in a place now where "rape" has moved into a place where you don't see it being thrown around in casual conversation in the same way, and it's not an acceptable punchline.

When it comes down to it, hate speech and comedy are not mutually exclusive, and standing behind a joke like it's some sort of shield doesn't create a space immune to questioning the jokes intent or effects. Similar to how certain offensive terms find themselves pushed out of the conversational lexicon, it's important for comedy to follow suit in topic and tone or risk feeling out of touch. Missteps or misunderstandings are an inevitability. How a comedian moves beyond them is what's important, but many of the comedians featured in the trailer seem to be an older subset digging their heels in to fight for the laziest brand of political incorrectness.

You also need to take into account that the platform provided to some of these comedians puts them in a position where they represent a business. The Gilbert Gottfried headline featured in the video involves him being fired by Aflac for tweeting jokes about tsunamis and earthquakes in Japan. Not only was what he said disrespectful, but it reflected negatively on the insurance company he represented at the time. Comedians in these public positions represent businesses that should not openly discriminate, and are obviously expected to handle themselves accordingly. This is not an unreasonable expectation, and that Gottfried would be so oblivious to this fact after all this time is baffling.
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
lightskintwin said:
I kinda agree, plus it needed much wider breath of comedians such as Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, Jerry Seinfeld, Louis CK, Bill Burr, Dave Chappelle, Aries Spears, etc...
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Seinfeld really doesn't belong there despite him bringing up the issue which was great

The rest of that lineup though. I'd love to hear their thoughts on this topic in a doc. I have enjoyed the hell out of their comedy. Much of it being very controversial
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
Interesting premise, but some real c tier comedians in the trailer. Not sure I ever want to hear Adam Corrola give his thoughts on anything, even less so when it is about a subject he knows as little about as comedy.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Discotheque said:
Seinfeld really doesn't belong there despite him bringing up the issue which was great

The rest of that lineup though. I'd love to hear their thoughts on this topic in a doc. I have enjoyed the hell out of their comedy. Much of it being very controversial
Click to expand...

I think most of them have done interviews where they talk about the subject. Here's Chris on the subject he also brings up steps that Chappelle has gone to in order to avoid it

You recently hosted Saturday Night Live, and in the monologue, where you were talking about the opening of One World Trade, my wife and I both felt just like you: No way are we going into that building. But you look online the next morning, and some people were offended and accused you of disparaging the 9/11 victims. The political correctness that was thought to be dead is now—

Oh, it’s back stronger than ever. I don’t pay that much attention to it. I mean, you don’t want to piss off the people that are paying you, obviously, but otherwise I’ve just been really good at ignoring it. Honestly, it’s not that people were offended by what I said. They get offended by how much fun I appear to be having while saying it. You could literally take everything I said on Saturday night and say it on Meet the Press, and it would be a general debate, and it would go away. But half of it’s because they think they can hurt comedians.

That they can hurt your career?

Yeah. They think you’re more accessible than Tom Brokaw saying the exact same thing.

What do you make of the attempt to bar Bill Maher from speaking at Berkeley for his riff on Muslims?

Well, I love Bill, but I stopped playing colleges, and the reason is because they’re way too conservative.

In their political views?

Not in their political views — not like they’re voting Republican — but in their social views and their willingness not to offend anybody. Kids raised on a culture of “We’re not going to keep score in the game because we don’t want anybody to lose.” Or just ignoring race to a fault. You can’t say “the black kid over there.” No, it’s “the guy with the red shoes.” You can’t even be offensive on your way to being inoffensive.

When did you start to notice this?

About eight years ago. Probably a couple of tours ago. It was just like, This is not as much fun as it used to be. I remember talking to George Carlin before he died and him saying the exact same thing.

A few days ago I was talking with Patton Oswalt, and he was exercised about the new reality that any comedian who is trying out material that’s a little out there can be fucked by someone who blasts it on Twitter or a social network.

I know Dave Chappelle bans everybody’s phone when he plays a club. I haven’t gone that far, but I may have to, to get an act together for a tour.

Does it force you into some sort of self-censorship?

It does. I swear I just had a conversation with the people at the Comedy Cellar about how we can make cell phones into cigarettes. If you would have told me years ago that they were going to get rid of smoking in comedy clubs, I would have thought you were crazy.

It is scary, because the thing about comedians is that you’re the only ones who practice in front of a crowd. Prince doesn’t run a demo on the radio. But in stand-up, the demo gets out. There are a few guys good enough to write a perfect act and get onstage, but everybody else workshops it and workshops it, and it can get real messy. It can get downright offensive. Before everyone had a recording device and was wired like fucking Sammy the Bull,4 you’d say something that went too far, and you’d go, “Oh, I went too far,” and you would just brush it off. But if you think you don’t have room to make mistakes, it’s going to lead to safer, gooier stand-up. You can’t think the thoughts you want to think if you think you’re being watched.

I assume you worked on the SNL material in the confines of the studio and that it never went before an audience?

Comedy Cellar all week. If I messed up a word here and there, which I did, it could really be get-him-out-of-here offensive. But you just watch to make sure nobody tapes it. You watch and you watch hard. And you make sure the doorman’s watching. What Patton’s trying to say is, like, comedians need a place where we can work on that stuff. And by the way: An audience that’s not laughing is the biggest indictment that something’s too far. No comedian’s ever done a joke that bombs all the time and kept doing it. Nobody in the history of stand-up. Not one guy.
Click to expand...

http://www.vulture.com/2014/11/chris-rock-frank-rich-in-conversation.html
 
J

JoJoShabadoo

Member
SatansReverence said:
Quite the opposite infact.
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I know what you might mean, as in the movie's premise seemingly being correct. but this is the type of stance that people hold onto as tight as, say, their religious beliefs.

A movie, or discussions that a movie encourages, will not enlighten people that believe a joke can be legitimately offensive.

I personally agree with most comedians out there who have voiced their opinion, including Patrice, Bill Burr, and Louis C.K.

As Bill Burr once said, these are the type of people that instead of watching a stand-up special, should invite a comedian over to a private showing, hand him/her a list of topics they can talk about, and laugh freely at things that don't affect them.

It's like when people claim that movies or video games promote violence. You can separate fiction from reality. So think of comedy as a fiction. If a comedian jokes about rape, if his set-up and delivery were funny, than hats off to them, they made the audience laugh at something that wouldn't otherwise be funny. You can get outraged or at least be disappointed in Michael Richards for going on a racist rant, but you shouldn't be getting upset at Louis C.K. for actually saying the "N" word.
 
Jme

Jme

Member
Steve Youngblood said:
I'm not trying to sound incredulous. But I would really like to read more up on this. I'm not saying I refuse to believe that it ever happens. But I'm somewhat skeptical of the idea that someone is going to find themselves in a position -- working as a comedy club owner -- where they'll have to issue refunds or incur bad word of mouth from the majority of paying patrons just to appease a vocal minority (and I mean that in the numbers sense and not the ethnic sense). I'm not trying to be oblivious here, I just feel like I'm missing something in regards to the bully tactics employed by the outraged in question that make them so effective in getting their way.

Because the alternative is that I do think it's possible sometimes that some do exercise their own moral judgment. I'm not saying this is what happens most of the time, but despite the idea that comedy is sacrosanct and beyond criticism, I do think it's possible for owners to recognize that an act isn't bold and pushing the envelope in as much as it's just plain offensive, dumb, and not funny.
Click to expand...

I'm really annoyed with myself for not 1) being able to find the story, and 2) not remembering the comedians name - but a specific case was a male comedian who had his shows cancelled in or near Dearborn Michigan due to some crowd work on his first night that made fun of a muslim woman in the crowd. For reference, Dearborn is a predominantly muslim city, I believe.
But that's just one case. Comedians on Opie and Jim Norton, or Howard Stern, talk about cancelled gigs all the time because either they club said they were dropping them, or because the club said they had to change their act and they refused. It's not always the latter, but it sometimes is and while that is on them to decide, it's definitely relevant because they are literally being asked to censor their material for a paycheck.

Standup comedy, in my opinion, is a rough place to be. It is, ultimately, a live theater performance. Most commonly a one man (or woman!) show. And sometimes crowd work is used, but even then, it's really not a participatory event. However they are frequently heckled, shouted at, interrupted, etc. and that's not even when they are being criticized. Additionally, people in the audience expect to be entertained on something that is inherently subjective. And a lot of the more successful comics out there are "offensive" because, by and large, that is what sells. People can say culture has changed, and that comedians need to "improve" or "adapt" but, at the end of the day, Jim Jeffries is still selling out arenas, and I'd be hard pressed to name a "PG" or even strictly "PC" comic that the same can be said of them. So, and I realize I'm rambling here, my point is, that comedians want to be successful, and probably got into comedy because of other comedians they enjoyed who were successful, but they are being asked to do so in a way that doesn't match which what has been, and currently is, what sells.

TL:DR - I think this seems like an important documentary, but unfortunately will only embolden the beliefs of those who already agree with its agenda, and further alienate those who already disagree. I find it unlikely it will change anyones opinion, but I hope it has a positive impact on stand up comedy.
 
U

UltimaPooh

Member
There's a difference between comedy that uses non pc language to be thought provoking or explore the human condition.

and comedy that the only reason the words are there are to shock and ah.

I feel like comedians and in general people can say what they want.... but they better be willing to say why they said such things.

Obviously no one needs to physically attack them or verbally demean them.
 
7

7DollarHagane

Banned
Can we acknowledge that most adults have more pressing issues than being offended by jokes and move on with their lives?

Being offended doesn't physically hurt you. You feel bad for a bit or realize that the person saying it is a jerk and think about something else.

Like is full of jerks, we all have to deal with jerks.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
Jme said:
I'm really annoyed with myself for not 1) being able to find the story, and 2) not remembering the comedians name - but a specific case was a male comedian who had his shows cancelled in or near Dearborn Michigan due to some crowd work on his first night that made fun of a muslim woman in the crowd. For reference, Dearborn is a predominantly muslim city, I believe.
But that's just one case. Comedians on Opie and Jim Norton, or Howard Stern, talk about cancelled gigs all the time because either they club said they were dropping them, or because the club said they had to change their act and they refused. It's not always the latter, but it sometimes is and while that is on them to decide, it's definitely relevant because they are literally being asked to censor their material for a paycheck.

Standup comedy, in my opinion, is a rough place to be. It is, ultimately, a live theater performance. Most commonly a one man (or woman!) show. And sometimes crowd work is used, but even then, it's really not a participatory event. However they are frequently heckled, shouted at, interrupted, etc. and that's not even when they are being criticized. Additionally, people in the audience expect to be entertained on something that is inherently subjective. And a lot of the more successful comics out there are "offensive" because, by and large, that is what sells. People can say culture has changed, and that comedians need to "improve" or "adapt" but, at the end of the day, Jim Jeffries is still selling out arenas, and I'd be hard pressed to name a "PG" or even strictly "PC" comic that the same can be said of them. So, and I realize I'm rambling here, my point is, that comedians want to be successful, and probably got into comedy because of other comedians they enjoyed who were successful, but they are being asked to do so in a way that doesn't match which what has been, and currently is, what sells.

TL:DR - I think this seems like an important documentary, but unfortunately will only embolden the beliefs of those who already agree with its agenda, and further alienate those who already disagree. I find it unlikely it will change anyones opinion, but I hope it has a positive impact on stand up comedy.
Click to expand...

I honestly have a lot of respect for stand up comedy. My early posts may not indicate it, but I'd be willing to give a documentary like this a chance. However, I still feel like the trailer does the concept no favors from where I'm sitting. All the main players featured are people that have been successful that clearly don't strive to be politically correct. And while I certainly don't encourage physical assault and don't even encourage verbal heckling, it's hard for me not to just see the people featured in the trailer as aging dinosaurs that are having trouble adapting to a changing world.

But I admit that I may not be giving their situation enough credit. Like I said earlier, I understand that even progressives can be guilty of using the bully pulpit. But I just can't shake the fact that the prominent comedians in the trailer aren't really victims in as much as they're people who fee like they've earned their stripes and shouldn't have to deal with these whiny PC killjoys who dare have the audacity to question their craft. I also do reject the idea that some seem to propose wherein there's no line that can possibly be crossed in the name of pursuing comedy.
 
B

Breads

Banned
I'll give everyone in the doc a fair shake except for Adam Corolla.

I used to be a regular listener of his podcast along with the one he does/ did with Dr Drew. The shit he says about hispanics as far as culture and education goes is unforgivable. There weren't any punchlines. These weren't jokes. He just spews hatred toward a culture he finds inferior and he passes it off as casual observations.

And it's a rant he got going time and time again.

Maybe he changed since I stopped listening to him. Maybe he was like this before I found him in itunes. Whatever. He no longer has the benefit of the doubt with me.
 
M

mbpm1

Member
Jme said:
TL:DR - I think this seems like an important documentary, but unfortunately will only embolden the beliefs of those who already agree with its agenda, and further alienate those who already disagree. I find it unlikely it will change anyones opinion, but I hope it has a positive impact on stand up comedy.
Click to expand...

Isn't that most documentaries these days?
 
P

Platy

Member
Bill Burr's video with Seinfeld makes it looks like that if you said that a joke was racist is the same as saying the comedian belongs to the KKK.

You can't even understand how the brain works and how thing like white privilege works with this kinda of mentality.

The main problem with bigoted jokes is that they REQUIRE a bigoted way of thinking to work... so even if for you it is funny because it reminds you of you old grampa .... for someone it will be "fuck yeah, n****** are so much like that LOL" and will reinforces prejudices. For someone without any small racist background, the joke will not make sense. it will be .... a non joke.

I am not saying you CAN'T make this kind of joke, but if a comedian does not think about these kinds of things they are at least shit entertainers
 
Scarecrow

Scarecrow

Member
Platy said:
The main problem with bigoted jokes is that they REQUIRE a bigoted way of thinking to work...
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't. Archie Bunker is funny not because of his bigoted jokes, but because of how silly his worldview is.

Only stand up comedians cast I listen to is Jimmy Pardo's show. Whenever he has fellow comedians on, the conversation inevitably comes around to people being overly sensitive to jokes in the past few years.
 
A

aliengmr

Member
Platy said:
Bill Burr's video with Seinfeld makes it looks like that if you said that a joke was racist is the same as saying the comedian belongs to the KKK.

You can't even understand how the brain works and how thing like white privilege works with this kinda of mentality.

The main problem with bigoted jokes is that they REQUIRE a bigoted way of thinking to work... so even if for you it is funny because it reminds you of you old grampa .... for someone it will be "fuck yeah, n****** are so much like that LOL" and will reinforces prejudices. For someone without any small racist background, the joke will not make sense. it will be .... a non joke.

I am not saying you CAN'T make this kind of joke, but if a comedian does not think about these kinds of things they are at least shit entertainers
Click to expand...

This isn't how jokes work. "Funny" is different for everyone. Unfunny jokes, like Chris Rock said, aren't reused.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
ironic movie title considering how thin skinned Adam is. There's a reason the fat one from Man Show got a TV show on prime time and he didn't.
 
G

GamingOblivion

Banned
SatansReverence said:
Really? I made a joke to a female service station attendant about my new car (2007 focus hatch) coming with a pack of tampons and she found it hilarious.

The truth is you hipster princesses do get outraged at fucking nothing. You cant go 5 minutes without trying to find something to be outraged about.
Click to expand...

It's almost like comedy isn't universal or objective

It's almost like people get upset at different things

It's almost like you can't take a single person's response to represent half the fucking planet
 
P

Platy

Member
Scarecrow said:
No, it doesn't. Archie Bunker is funny not because of his bigoted jokes, but because of how silly his worldview is.
Click to expand...

If the joke is about how silly are his worldview it is not a bigoted joke, it is a joke about a bigoted person. "Bigoted people being assholes" is a pretty good "stereotype" to make a joke with
 
K

kaname-san

Member
I agree with the premise of the movie so I was excited for a bit but why does it need to center around stand up comedians? most of them are so bad. plus, I think the problem of outrage culture affects normal people more than comedians.
 
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