EchoChamber
Member
yes i know now lol but the things that guy was writing ,It was pissing me off.
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Cop kills Dog. Owner just a tad more than slightly pissed off.
- Thread starter super-heated plasma
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yes i know now lol but the things that guy was writing ,It was pissing me off.
Fair enough. I can totally understand that. There are people that experience injustice and corruption to a much higher degree. I think they have every right to be angry and mistrusting of the police. So I can understand how I'm trying to approach this is flawed. I'm willing to admit my own ignorance (it's how I learn and become a better person). I can see where I'm getting tunnel vision here and being ignorant. I appreciate you guys helping me understand why it's a flawed way to view it.
Sorry again for going off topic.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Wow, he really kept his composure there. This is sad, though.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
im slowly finding out that on GAF people try to rationalize everything even the stuff that doesn't make sense. You can always find some know it all expert on here that knows exactly how to handle every situation and also knows exactly how every situation should be handled. This site is full of gods.
charlequin
Banned
No worries. I appreciate you engaging directly with me about it!
block tower
Member
InfiniteBento
Member
Thats so fucked up. There are so many ways to subdue an animal and its incredibly unfortunate that slaughtering that dog was all that officer could think to do. Even fleeing would've been wiser than this. I hope he is properly charged for this unnecessary nonsense.
Summer Haze
Banned
That is so sad. I'm getting a lump in my throat again reading that.
Poor guy, he sounds distraught.
Fuck, now i need to go and hug my dog.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
no just no stop it! you can't paraphrase based of text and throw words in and say that's what the guy was saying. He didn't say man up you pussy.
block tower
Member
charlequin
Banned
I don't think you're really reading this correctly. The whole point of police training is that people's instincts in these circumstances are wrong; without some active effort, they'll be likely to overreact to perceived danger in a way that's ultimately worse for everyone. The process of becoming a police officer involves actively retraining oneself to react in a more considered and appropriate manner to both dangerous and unexpected scenarios, because the responsibility that comes with being a police officer entails responding correctly to these situations.
The problem is that most US police are undertrained, many departments allow people to become officers even if they demonstrably don't meet the psychological and training requirements, and most instances of malfeasance by police aren't dealt with because police culture emphasizes supporting fellow officers above actual accountability.
Nice to read a majority of compassionate, logical comments for once with a sad story such as this.
Heartbreaking.
WordsintheWater
Member
Exactly
CornBurrito
Member
He compared the guy to a 13 year old child, and said he shouldn't be upset and should handle it by having a calm cool discussion and maybe getting another dog.
He didn't literally say "man up you pussy" but comparing the owner to a 13 year old child is certainly suggesting that they don't consider the person to have been acting like an adult.
And saying that the guy overreacted and should have been less emotional about having his dog shot.
To my ears "man up you pussy" implies that the person isn't acting like an adult (or specifically, an adult male) and that they should be less emotional about a situation. Ie. "Man up you pussy, it's just a game" in response to someone being upset over their sports team losing.
If you think I made an error in my reasoning then show me.
Man...just shut up.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I don't even do pets..but this shit sucks so badly.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
I always end up trying to explain this exact thing to ardent defenders of ridiculous police action and i can never find a way to properly get it through what seems to be an almost religously thick membrane of denial. A group of ladies in my old job all three had sons/husbands/nephews that were in law enforcement - there was a local situation where a kid with a history of mental illness had a bad bi-polar episode/break and was brandishing a knife outside his house mumbling and threatening anyone who came near. Mom calls the cops out of fear - they show up and end up shooting this 17 year old dead. I could not for the life of me convince these women that non-lethal force (every single cop there had a taser gun) was all that was required.
"If there is a threat I would rather they kill him than my baby get hurt.."
It's not your baby anymore. He's a cop and a cop is SUPPOSED to be better at handling this exact type of situation better than some random asshole. It's the reason the job exists... it's the entire idea behind a police force instead of everyone police themselves.
Willful ignorance, obtuse thinking and some serious apologetic attitudes because you have a personal relation to a person... it's just an impossible egg to crack imo. I have the same opinion of a lot of the current police force as I do of the current government. A lot of old, ancient, broken ways of thinking that simply need to die with the old generation that holds onto them.
sorry off topic:
Those pictures are killing me... what a pretty dog
SunEatsMoon
Member
Fired? Pft, he should be lucky the owner doesn't kicking the living shit out of him. If only life were that simple. Oh, the dog was aggressive? You don't fucking say? That's usually what a dog does when a stranger trespasses on their property.
block tower
Member
I always end up trying to explain this exact thing to ardent defenders of ridiculous police action and i can never find a way to properly get it through what seems to be an almost religously thick membrane of denial. A group of ladies in my old job all three had sons/husbands/nephews that were in law enforcement - there was a local situation where a kid with a history of mental illness had a bad bi-polar episode/break and was brandishing a knife outside his house mumbling and threatening anyone who came near. Mom calls the cops out of fear - they show up and end up shooting this 17 year old dead. I could not for the life of me convince these women that non-lethal force (every single cop there had a taser gun) was all that was required.
"If there is a threat I would rather they kill him than my baby get hurt.."
It's not your baby anymore. He's a cop and a cop is SUPPOSED to be better at handling this exact type of situation better than some random asshole. It's the reason the job exists... it's the entire idea behind a police force instead of everyone police themselves.
Willful ignorance, obtuse thinking and some serious apologetic attitudes because you have a personal relation to a person... it's just an impossible egg to crack imo. I have the same opinion of a lot of the current police force as I do of the current government. A lot of old, ancient, broken ways of thinking that simply need to die with the old generation that holds onto them.
sorry off topic:
Those pictures are killing me... what a pretty dog
well said.
How could there possibly be an exigent circumstance that justified entering?
We know for a fact that the child was never in the yard. Said "missing" child was at his own home the entire time.
So the officer could not have heard the child or seen the child.
As far as "feeling threatened?"
1) Officers should learn how to read dogs before shooting them.
2) A 110lb dog can easily be handled by an athletic ~185lb (guessing on officer's weight, but going with a reasonable estimate) man. Even assuming that the dog was in full attack mode...you just pick the fucker up. Seriously, if the officer couldn't deal with an average sized dog, how the hell would he deal with an aggressive human?
Going back to number one, as someone who grew up around animals, I've found that the vast majority of people (not just officers) don't have a clue when it comes to animals. Yeah, I was bitten once as a kid, but I was being an ass at the time and totally deserved it.
Dogs have a LOT of friendly, social behavior that often gets called "aggressive" by those who are ignorant of animals. A big part of this is the simple fact that dogs use their mouth like people use their hands. Just because they've opened a mouth, doesn't mean they're being aggressive.
A perfect example:
I was visiting my GF and we were walking around her neighborhood when a new neighbor was in his yard with two dogs. It was a pair of large golden retrievers. As we walked up, I could see the dogs were playing. One looked towards me when we were on the other side of the street in an empty lot (it was a culdesac with no traffic), so I squatted down while looking at them.
The two reacted exactly as expected. I gave them the "ready to play sign" and they came barreling over. The second one basically body-slammed the first one to push him out of the way and get my attention. I started play wrestling with the one (my forearm was in his mouth) and goofed off with the two for a few minutes while the neighbor walked over and introduced himself.
I didn't think anything of it (that was all entirely normal for a young dog) until we got a few blocks away and my GF told me that she was freaked out at first because she had thought the two dogs were attacking me. She got doubly scared when the one had my arm in his mouth.
When I hear stories like this, I always think back to that day. Someone who doesn't know shit about animals, can easily be scared by 100% innocent behavior. And if that scared person has a gun, they're just going to shoot an animal that most likely just wants to play.
This x1000. There is a distinct difference between a pack and a single dog.
If a grown human can't handle a single dog, even one that is hell bent on attacking, how are they going to handle actual threats. A 110lb dog isn't going to be that hard to subdue.
Agree completely.
It was a 110lb dog, of a breed not known to be aggressive. Even if it was aggressive, a trained officer (who presumably has to deal with much larger, smarter and deadly threats) should be able to deal with an animal like that. It's not like he was in any danger of being overpowered.
Except there was no kid. The kid never left his own house.
The supposedly missing kid, never left his own house. There's no way the officer could have even suspected the kid was in that backyard.
To justify that entry (and the officer's actions), you would have to say that ANY report of a missing child allows police unfettered access to search any private property in the nearby area without a warrant or any other supporting evidence.
No, it's the same thing. Police officers are people. The difference is, they are highly trained and are expected to be better than a random civilian with a gun.
If they pull the trigger, they had better have a damn good reason to do so.
I'm sure that's true for some. Although I often find, police officers are quick to negate any risk they might face. The problem with that is, they are paid well to do a job that requires risk. I think too many officers are too quick to use lethal or harsh force to keep them out of harms way (even in cases were they aren't actually in harms way). Is their cases where police officers should defend with lethal force? Sure. If someone has a gun and is shooting at them, then it's a life or death situation.
The problem is, cops want to eliminate any kind of risk before it happens. But that's extremely dangerous when you don't know what the risk/outcome might be (or you might be making a mistake by assuming risk would happen, when it might not have). I'm not saying you are wrong, or that what I just said is true for all cops either. But I think it's an issue. They get paid to be in a job that is dangerous, and they should live up to that. If they don't want to take the risk, don't do the profession.
I always end up trying to explain this exact thing to ardent defenders of ridiculous police action and i can never find a way to properly get it through what seems to be an almost religously thick membrane of denial. A group of ladies in my old job all three had sons/husbands/nephews that were in law enforcement - there was a local situation where a kid with a history of mental illness had a bad bi-polar episode/break and was brandishing a knife outside his house mumbling and threatening anyone who came near. Mom calls the cops out of fear - they show up and end up shooting this 17 year old dead. I could not for the life of me convince these women that non-lethal force (every single cop there had a taser gun) was all that was required.
"If there is a threat I would rather they kill him than my baby get hurt.."
It's not your baby anymore. He's a cop and a cop is SUPPOSED to be better at handling this exact type of situation better than some random asshole. It's the reason the job exists... it's the entire idea behind a police force instead of everyone police themselves.
Willful ignorance, obtuse thinking and some serious apologetic attitudes because you have a personal relation to a person... it's just an impossible egg to crack imo. I have the same opinion of a lot of the current police force as I do of the current government. A lot of old, ancient, broken ways of thinking that simply need to die with the old generation that holds onto them.
sorry off topic:
Those pictures are killing me... what a pretty dog
Yeah, I agree. I don't think there is an excuse for incompetent police officers (and there is 100% no excuse for corruption). Cops aren't exempt and should not be above the law. I'll never understand people defending this. While I made the argument that not all cops are corrupt, I also acknowledge that a lot are either corrupt or under-qualified to be in that position. It's a system wide problem. I don't get why someone would go to the other extreme and ignore these things, because THERE are some good cops. That doesn't make sense either. That is insanity. Also to be clear, I think it's a horrible thing to try to obstruct and defend a specific case of police corruption by arguing not all cops are corrupt. Pretty despicable thing to do, actually.
Also I agree. Police officers need to start living up to the job they get paid to do. This idea that they should negate all risk is insane.
charlequin
Banned
Oof.
Unfortunately, there is plenty of evidence at this point to establish that if a person has a moderate-to-severely mentally ill or developmentally disabled family member, it is always a bad idea to call police to their residence. :/
Jmanunknown
Member
This is sad poor judgment in an entirely avoidable situation is gonna cost the city of Salt lake city some money. How is it ok for a police officer to walk in a gated yard to look for a missing child that was not really missing and shoot someones pet because they have an itchy trigger finger.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
Can you imagine the double layering of guilt she must of gone through afterwards? It's kind of telling that you see more and more stories in the last 10 years or so that are all essentially different takes on "How do i raise my child to not instinctively fear police after X event has taken place..."
Really starting to think that cameras on all on duty officers is going to have to happen sooner rather than later.
A very sad truth.
Two fairly recent videos come to mind. The man in a house with a knife: officers were warned he was unstable, had a knife and was in the house alone. For some reason they thought the best course of action was to storm in with lethal weapons.
And the guy camping who was obviously unwell. After a long stand off police felt the appropriate next step was lethal weapons.
In both situations, patience and non-lethal weapons could have saved lives. Nobody was in immediate danger.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Either way, the cop was a fucking idiot with a malfunctioning fore brain, with what little that video showed of his backyard there wasn't any reason the cop would've needed to enter it in the first place unless he/she was really short to see into the yard. If that dog was so aggressive that the cop would've needed to shoot it then WTF chance would a three year old have had and how would a three year old have gotten into the enclosed yard?! Never mind that it looks like the dog might have been a good distance away when this embarrassment to law enforcement executed him.
Lawsuits are going to be the only way this problem and others like it are going to be addressed and that's the only way the owner is likely to get any real answers.
They have guns, thing is they tend to use them on their co-workers though it seems to have been awhile.
Lawsuits are going to be the only way this problem and others like it are going to be addressed and that's the only way the owner is likely to get any real answers.
They have guns, thing is they tend to use them on their co-workers though it seems to have been awhile.
I was just kidding. They do?
Oh they are.
Yankee Ruin X
Member
Wow just watched the vid and read a few articles on this and really feel for the poor guy. I don't know what I would do if I was in his shoes, my dog is part of my family and my best buddy too if I got a phone call saying to come home as the police jumped the fence, got scared and shot my dog I would be livid. I don't think the guy is overreacting at all under the circumstances in my opinion I think he holds it together pretty well, I don't think I could have done that.
As for the officer in question, what was he thinking? Why is he even a police officer, if he can't handle a situation with a dog without shooting it then he certainly shouldn't be trusted with a gun as next time it might be someone's child.
As for the officer in question, what was he thinking? Why is he even a police officer, if he can't handle a situation with a dog without shooting it then he certainly shouldn't be trusted with a gun as next time it might be someone's child.
Certainly not what I'm going to teach my children.
"Treat the cops like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park. Given the right circumstances they will deal with a more immediate threat to your well being if it benefits them to do so, but they aren't your friends and they're always a lethal threat. No quick movements. No loud noises."
charlequin
Banned
Pretty good metaphor, actually.
Brofist
Member
In reality means a month paid suspension for the officer, and an "I'm sorry" letter for the guy.
I've read some ignorant bullshit on GAF this year, but this really takes the cake.
Nah.
kitchenmotors
Banned
It's pretty bad. The fact that he didn't come back into the thread speaks volumes. I dislike hit and run posts like this that are extremely ignorant.
Portugeezer
Member
There is definitely a problem with cops being too quick to shoot animals/pets/companions when a lot of times they don't have to. Better training is needed.
In this case it's even more fucked as they trespassed into the property and all the dog wants to do is defend its property.
In this case it's even more fucked as they trespassed into the property and all the dog wants to do is defend its property.
This is one of the saddest stories I have come across for some time, probably because I can relate so well. I can't even imagine this guy's pain, I have the same kind of relationship with my dog, she's my world pretty much.
My dog is very aggressive to strangers, but she never gets out without a leash and the back yard is surrounded by brick walls. I always just assume my dog is perfectly safe, it's crazy to think that something like this can happen. You don't expect strangers to just enter your property. My dog would be a goner for sure in this situation, she's just defending her territory.
I know this is like a one in one million kind of thing, but I wonder if there is something more I can do? I probably should put up a sign at the very least.
My dog is very aggressive to strangers, but she never gets out without a leash and the back yard is surrounded by brick walls. I always just assume my dog is perfectly safe, it's crazy to think that something like this can happen. You don't expect strangers to just enter your property. My dog would be a goner for sure in this situation, she's just defending her territory.
I know this is like a one in one million kind of thing, but I wonder if there is something more I can do? I probably should put up a sign at the very least.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
I would do every thing I could to ruin that cops life.
Pepper spray doesn't work on dogs (or rather, it's very inconsistent) . You also can't outrun a dog. What are you suggesting cops do when they encounter an aggressive dog? You could try to taze it, but that's one shot.
I'm not saying that's the case here, but saying tough shit, just get bit, is not a rational solution.
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