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[cartoon_soldier]

I am still lost between GAF that goes gaga at games that are shown of with graphics that they are not able to meet at the end (downgrades) vs. Games that start of with realistic expectations and hope to improve on everything by final release. I rather prefer the latter approach to game development.

We saw the same in the Fallout 4 thread.

As for Halo 5 and FPS, I am 100% certain that MP will be there at 60 FPS. Campaign we will see. If it's not 60 FPS locked that is fine, plenty of games there at 30 FPS which people enjoy.

 

[gypsygib]

Once you're in the 50-60 range you get that smoothness and added graphical clarity in motion. A locked 60 isn't THAT important.

 

[FunkyDealer]

Any resolution below H2A is ridiculous. It should be notably higher than that at all times given it's made for the Xbox One and doesn't run two games at once.

Is the engine using a deferred renderer? Because it seems forward plus is the way to go on Xbox One.

 

[Qassim]

60fps vs. 30fps have no place in my equation of what makes a game fun. It's a variable that people know exist but can hardly ever quantify - it's as it were, undefinable. I mean I can ask right now and there's not be a single person that could quantify how 60fps makes a game more fun vs a 30fps game - other than claiming that it should because x reason.

Haha what? "People can't justify it, unless they justify it, in which I'm just delcaring that invalid because..reasons"

All things equal a 60fps game IS more fun to me. I know so because I experience it, it is because the game is smoother and more responsive. I don't know why you feel that isn't a valid reason.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Well, let's be real for a second. To be part of a "positive" discussion about Halo, you'd have to go into HaloGAF, which is in community right now. There's a lot of reasons why people might not want to do that. I can only speak for myself. I don't care for the current state of HaloGAF. I rarely visit community threads anyways. Thus, I'll be in gaming threads, positive or negative.

There can be plenty of positivity towards Halo. IIRC, the beta convinced quite a few people that the MP was going to be great this time around and got quite a few people on board after Halo 4. However, 343 hasn't really shown why people should be excited for the SP outside of PR talk. On top of that, all the news regarding campaign is about cut-features without anything to show for it aside from "60 FPS is really important."

Is it really a surprise that it's met with negativity?

Hell, I'd be okay with some of the features being cut like split-screen if the E3 demo showed the scale and sandbox fit for a Halo title.

But what did we get? A scripted set-piece at 60 FPS with frame-rate dips.

Wow. Fantastic, simply amazing. Yea, no, that doesn't inspire any sort of confidence whatsoever. There would be more positivity if they showed worthwhile SP stuff, but they haven't.

And I'm not in the business of blindly believing what 343 says after Halo 4 either, which was awful.

They have concentrated on showing people MP and that has been great. Companies follow different game development models. 343 is going for optimization near the end of the development cycle. The demo at E3 was meant to show the new features and how they can play into SP, if you watched the Sprint vidocs you would have seen the reasoning behind the demo. It was also scripted due to the same reason, the demo was done according to a script. No company is going to take a in development game and get the build the day before E3 and show something random on it during E3. If they really just wanted to fool you they would gave gone with such a demo (see what other game companies do).

And the thing with negativity vs. positivity is something Stinkles touched on people who don't have interest in H5 or XB1 coming into such threads so instead of a discussion you get something else.

 

[Maintenance]

I don't know why you feel that isn't a valid reason.

Because otherwise he would be wrong.

 

[visiblemode]

60fps multiplayer and 30fps single player maybe?

Kinda doubt single player will be locked at 60. Although if they need to drop the resolution or lessen some effects to do so, they really should.

Exactly my thought.

This is a major flagship and I honestly doubt they will sacrifice the wow factor for 60 fps, despite how gloriously it would play.

However I could see them meeting that target for multiplayer where it's more crucial for gameplay.

 

[c0de]

60fps vs. 30fps have no place in my equation of what makes a game fun. It's a variable that people know exist but can hardly ever quantify - it's as it were, undefinable. I mean I can ask right now and there's not be a single person that could quantify how 60fps makes a game more fun vs a 30fps game - other than claiming that it should because x reason. An all else equal proposition in a world of trade-offs.

I think you could also argue how resolution makes a game more fun. In the end it depends on what you think makes a difference. And even if it does, you mostly don't have much choices.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Yeah, no, this is total BS. Please remind me the last time a game got a significant upgrade in Res/FPS/graphics just a few months before release. At this point the assets are essentially finalized and the team is busy taking care of bugs, optimization is a BS term and usually means cutting something to up the performance.

Destiny from beta to final release on XB1?

 

[freshVeggie]

Count the low-res alpha pixels.

The aliasing or low-res could be an effect maybe? An explosion, emp etc.?

 

[cheesekao]

60 fps + sandboxes > resolution

Can't go back after playing Halo 3 MP on MCC.

I don't see why Kojima and co can do a 1080p/60fps sandbox on the PS4(which is only slightly more powerful than the XBone) with good looking graphics whereas a first party MS studio struggles to achieve 60fps at lower resolutions. Granted, the game isn't out yet and I hope they bloody well achieve their target for the sake of Xbone owners but it doesn't really inspire much confidence.

 

[Seanspeed]

60fps vs. 30fps have no place in my equation of what makes a game fun. It's a variable that people know exist but can hardly ever quantify - it's as it were, undefinable. I mean I can ask right now and there's not be a single person that could quantify how 60fps makes a game more fun vs a 30fps game - other than claiming that it should because x reason. An all else equal proposition in a world of trade-offs.

I can only guess that all sounded much better in your head.

 

[evilalien]

The aliasing or low-res could be an effect maybe? An explosion, emp etc.?

It's because they are using low res alphas, exactly as Shin-Ra said.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I blame Don Mattrick.

 

[freshVeggie]

It's because they are using low res alphas, exactly as Shin-Ra said.

What is an alpha or low res one exactly?

 

[Deviousx]

Count the low-res alpha pixels.

It was only a matter of time before we got a Shotgun with a chainsaw bayonet.

Spoiler

;P Jk. But seriously though 343, eliminate all jaggies before release. Thanks.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Haha what? "People can't justify it, unless they justify it, in which I'm just delcaring that invalid because..reasons"

All things equal a 60fps game IS more fun to me. I know so because I experience it, it is because the game is smoother and more responsive. I don't know why you feel that isn't a valid reason.

You could stick with responsiveness as the factor in all-else equal proposition. Safe to say in a world of trade-offs (closed systems), it's not as high in the equation for me personally I guess - from the point of view of what makes a game fun. Same for many I guess.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

It was only a matter of time before we got a Shotgun with a chainsaw bayonet.

Spoiler

;P Jk. But seriously though 343, eliminate all jaggies before release. Thanks.

It's not using the final build textures.

 

[Nafai1123]

I don't see why Kojima and co can do a 1080p/60fps sandbox on the PS4(which is only slightly more powerful than the XBone) with good looking graphics whereas a first party MS studio struggles to achieve 60fps at lower resolutions. Granted, the game isn't out yet and I hope they bloody well achieve their target for the sake of Xbone owners but it doesn't really inspire much confidence.

Because in regards to the things that benefit high resolutions at a high framerate, the PS4 isn't just slightly more powerful. If has a significantly higher fillrate, bandwidth, and ROPS. It's the same reason Ground Zeroes was 1080p on PS4 and 720p on XB1.

 

[Primethius]

They have concentrated on showing people MP and that has been great. Companies follow different game development models. 343 is going for optimization near the end of the development cycle. The demo at E3 was meant to show the new features and how they can play into SP, if you watched the Sprint vidocs you would have seen the reasoning behind the demo. It was also scripted due to the same reason, the demo was done according to a script. No company is going to take a in development game and get the build the day before E3 and show something random on it during E3. If they really just wanted to fool you they would gave gone with such a demo (see what other game companies do).

And the thing with negativity vs. positivity is something Stinkles touched on people who don't have interest in H5 or XB1 coming into such threads so instead of a discussion you get something else.

Well, this thread is about a frame-rate analysis of the E3 demo. Many complaints are about the SP, especially in recent cut-feature threads.

Perhaps 343 should have showed off a better single-player demo if they didn't want to be bombarded with negativity because of their design decisions.

As for the negativity vs. positivity that Stinkles mentioned, I don't care about that unless you can start naming names and/or providing some proof. Because just dropping that in a thread like this is akin to calling posters "concerned" which is fine but holds no value when dealing with the actual criticisms of Halo 5.

 

[jelly]

I remember playing Rage last gen and the difference is very nice. I'm fine with either but 60fps is a decent noticeable improvement.

I agree with comments that 343 did themselves no favours with that E3 showing. If your blowing your trumpet on a big open Halo game with lots of sandbox options to show you're not retreading Halo 4 again and show a COD level with the excuse of we had to show squad controls and other vertical slice stuff, which escapes me thinking about it now, your going to get flak. The complaints from Halo 4 are clear but 343 didn't want to address them with the first showing of campaign. Maybe they'll show it again at Gamescon with a more open Halo level. You have to get people excited with a showing.

 

[Gravemind IV]

Strangely, if you take into account public opinion, I am actually more concerned with the explosions than resolution. It seems they retained Halo 4's. Anyone remember taking down the Lich or the cruiser in the first level? Both of those absolutely paled in comparison with the explosions that we see in Halo 2A and Halo 3.

 

[Stinkles]

I blame Don Mattrick.

For some reason this phrasing made me get mad about how bad a name "Mon Calamari" is. "my squid"

 

[dragonelite]

I don't see why Kojima and co can do a 1080p/60fps sandbox on the PS4(which is only slightly more powerful than the XBone) with good looking graphics whereas a first party MS studio struggles to achieve 60fps at lower resolutions. Granted, the game isn't out yet and I hope they bloody well achieve their target for the sake of Xbone owners but it doesn't really inspire much confidence.

Don't forget MGS 5 demo was 720p on X1, if I'm not mistaken PES 2015 will also
be 720p on X1 if I'm not mistaken. They also need to manage Esram which you don't have
to do on the ps4.

 

[c0de]

I don't see why Kojima and co can do a 1080p/60fps sandbox on the PS4(which is only slightly more powerful than the XBone) with good looking graphics whereas a first party MS studio struggles to achieve 60fps at lower resolutions. Granted, the game isn't out yet and I hope they bloody well achieve their target for the sake of Xbone owners but it doesn't really inspire much confidence.

Because not everything that “costs“ in a game (considering you have at most 16.6ms to render a frame) can be seen on screen.

 

[Gravemind IV]

For some reason this phrasing made me get mad about how bad a name "Mon Calamari" is. "my squid"

Also, Franks. Should we consider engaging hype thrusters for RTX next week?

 

[jelly]

Strangely, if you take into account public opinion, I am actually more concerned with the explosions than resolution. It seems they retained Halo 4's. Anyone remember taking down the Lich or the cruiser in the first level? Both of those absolutely paled in comparison with the explosions that we see in Halo 2A and Halo 3.

It vanished more than exploded.

 

[Gravemind IV]

It vanished more than exploded.

Precisely.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Poor MisterXclown, Dat Secret Sauce still not have arrived on devs hands...

Does this idiot really believe the shit he says?

 

[Courage]

I don't see why Kojima and co can do a 1080p/60fps sandbox on the PS4(which is only slightly more powerful than the XBone) with good looking graphics whereas a first party MS studio struggles to achieve 60fps at lower resolutions. Granted, the game isn't out yet and I hope they bloody well achieve their target for the sake of Xbone owners but it doesn't really inspire much confidence.

MGSV isn't gonna look as good as you think. It's a cross-gen game, after all.

As for Halo 5, If they live up to the promise of going back to their sandbox roots at a consistent 60fps, then I don't mind a dynamic resolution. It's premature to comment on the specifics of 'dynamic resolution' anyway.

 

[Stinkles]

Also, Franks. Should we consider engaging hype thrusters for RTX next week?

Wat? I hope rtx isn't next week.

 

[shinnn]

It vanished more than exploded.

do you guys have examples of others games with better and frequent explosions like Halo?

 

[Vico]

Also, Franks. Should we consider engaging hype thrusters for RTX next week?

Comic Con is next week, 343 has a panel on friday.
RTX is pushed back to august this year, and actually it's during Gamescom's week, so I'm going to assume 343 will be focused on Gamescom. Might be wrong, but I don't expect them to be at two events at the same time.

 

[TomShoe]

And the thing with negativity vs. positivity is something Stinkles touched on people who don't have interest in H5 or XB1 coming into such threads so instead of a discussion you get something else.

Whether one will be buying Halo 5 or not, why is it so wrong to have an opinion on something nowadays? One can't even attempt to start a discussion about how the explosions on a screenshot look bad or whether 60 fps vs 30 fps is worth losing graphical fidelity and resolution without being titled fanboy drivel. We're losing split-screen, a huge feature in past Halos, and no one gets to react negatively? I know the team at 343i has their reasons for removing it, but does that mean we don't get to complain about it because "the devs know best"? Come on now. Same shit happened to The Order, and look how that turned out.

People are entitled their opinions. Disregard them if you want, just don't act surprised if it comes to haunt you later.

 

[rrc1594]

Comic Con is next week, 343 has a panel on friday.
RTX is pushed back to august this year, and actually it's during Gamescom's week, so I'm going to assume 343 will be focused on Gamescom. Might be wrong, but I don't expect them to be at two events at the same time.

Franks a wizard he'll be there for both of them

 

[AndyMoogle]

Once you're in the 50-60 range you get that smoothness and added graphical clarity in motion. A locked 60 isn't THAT important.

There is a huge difference between 60 fps and 50-60 fps.

 

[Night Angel]

I play games not resolutions

You make shit posts not contributions.

That is not very promising, but the game isn't out yet. Hopefully they make some major improvements in the next few months. I'll definitely be waiting a few days before purchasing, so I'm sure I'll get the actual results before buying. Don't wanna buy a broken game or one that runs like shit.

 

[Stinkles]

Comic Con is next week, 343 has a panel on friday.
RTX is pushed back to august this year, and actually it's during Gamescom's week, so I'm going to assume 343 will be focused on Gamescom. Might be wrong, but I don't expect them to be at two events at the same time.

We'll be at comic con, rtx and gamescom with different focus and scale at each. Comic con should be fun this year and I got my beach body back just in time. 25 pounds in two weeks!

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

You make shit posts not contributions.

What makes that a shit post? That's as to the point as a post can get. Dude isn't gonna get his panties in a twist because the game has low resolution alphas or lower resolution. He just wants to play games. Lol Jesus....

 

[Night Angel]

What makes that a shit post? That's as to the point as a post can get. Dude isn't gonna get his panties in a twist because the game has low resolution alphas or lower resolution. He just wants to play games. Lol Jesus....

Which is uber relevant in a tech thread, amirite?

 

[Journey]

This is a topic about the tech. Why post here if you dont care?

Actually in his defense, this is a topic about whether Halo can deliver 60fps, so him saying he doesn't care about resolution implies he only cares that they hit 60fps regardless of the resolution. That's more on topic than most.

I thought they were going for a 30fps single player, 60fps multi, but I guess why gimp the smoothness of single player? Hitting 60fps for both could be a good thing even if it means dialing back the visuals a bit, I'm sure it will still look very impressive, graphics aren't only about still images without seeing all of the action and effects that ultimately as a package defines the visuals of a game.

 

[c0de]

Which is uber relevant in a tech thread, amirite?

You can quote a lot of posts here which are not tech related, though.

 

[LordBaztion]

I wouldn't mind the campaign being 30fps or having constant frame drops below 60 but the multiplayer need to be solid 60fps

 

[evilalien]

What is an alpha or low res one exactly?

Alpha basically refers to transparent effects/textures (if you are familiar with photoshop at all, the alpha channel controls the opacity of an image, it's the same thing with textures/effects). Rendering transparencies is bandwidth intensive and so resolving them at low resolution is a compromise done to save on bandwidth. This was a common theme with PS3 games vs 360 games for example because of that console's limited memory bandwidth compared to the 360. Anyways, when you are resolving transparencies at low resolution, and you have a scene where there is a transparent texture/effect covering most of the screen like in that image, it will look like dogshit.

 

[jelly]

do you guys have examples of others games with better and frequent explosions like Halo?

Halo 3, Reach did it better than 4 and Battlefield has neat explosions.

 

[Seanspeed]

There is a huge difference between 60 fps and 50-60 fps.

Really depends on the sort of fluctuations we're talking about. But generally, I don't agree. I think it's noticeable, but probably not 'huge'. Still highly preferable to locked 30fps.

 

[Night Angel]

You can quote a lot of posts here which are not tech related, though.

Yep, but that's the first one I hit and was pretty much the epitome of DF "I don't like discussing tech, it's all about gameplay, etc." responses.

I don't usually combo quote an entire thread to post a response.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

We'll be at comic con, rtx and gamescom with different focus and scale at each. Comic con should be fun this year and I got my beach body back just in time. 25 pounds in two weeks!

Looking forward to it.

You'll look even thinner when everyone here has had their feast of crows and the only thing you're consuming is their delicious tears.

 

[Aceofspades]

Wow, The game never stays at 60 fps! Has average visuals and dynamic low resolutions.

I will give 343 the benefit of the doubt and will wait for the final product but right now performance is embarrasing .

 

[The Faceless Master]

some people always criticize analysis of non-final builds, but really, how many games that were analyzed 3~6m pre-launch have significantly improved by launch?

if they want to hit that sweet 60fps they should try cutting some SFX, not resolution.