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DF: Final Fantasy 12 Zodiac Age PS4/PS4 Pro vs PS2/Emulation Graphics Comparison
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
FFX/X-2 has no Pro support.
Why do people say 'only' 1440p? Is it because 1440 doesn't seem much higher than 1080p?
1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels
2560 x 1440 = 3,686,400 pixels
Quite a jump.
Yeah people don't realize it's nearly twice the amount of pixels. It has a huge impact on performance and on a computer screen the difference is night and day.
It's actually a more practical gaming resolution on pc screens, seeing as they rarely exceed 27 inches. I don't feel the need at all yet to switch to 4K.
It's actually a more practical gaming resolution on pc screens, seeing as they rarely exceed 27 inches. I don't feel the need at all yet to switch to 4K.
Downsampling from 1440p doesn't make that much difference at 1080p to me if there is already a good AA solution.
Bloom lighting is a thing. I'm cool with it personally, but I understand people who don't dig it.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You can't fault the Pro as a console for this. This is purely on the developer.
It's better than 1080p, yes.
But I paid $575 canadian for the console and $3000 on a 4k tv. I at least want my ps2 remasters to be in 4k, not this lame, lazy, half measure they call pro support.
It's bullshit. Sony should mandate better support for the PRO.
Man, but tbh it makes those colors really pop.The small problem with adding dynamic and contact shadows..
It reveals floating geometry!
So what exactly does this mean for those of us with 1080p TVs?? I never understand this stuff.
EDIT: WHOOPS! Big apologies for the double post.
EDIT EDIT: Just Googled it and if I'm reading right we're missing out a much clearer image correct?
There are? Honestly asking. I didn't realize there were many 4k titles at all yet, never mind remasters.
This thread (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1324251) says there are these -- not a lot, and they come with exceptions/issues:
- AC: Ezio Collection
- Bulletstorm (possibly)
- CoD: MW (2160c)
- Diablo III: UE
- Skyrim: SE (with sub-30 fps)
- KH 1.5/2.5 (but with tons of frame issues, apparently?)
- TLoU (but with shadow errors)
Sammy Samusu
Member
Played the ENG Zodiac version on PC and it was fire. Looks like that is still the best way to experience the game.It's a great improvement but I can't get past how blurry everything looks compared to the emulator.
paragonpro
Banned
Yeah especially after kh 1.5+2.5 was native 4k on the pro
It means we may as well be playing on a regular PS4.
We are indeed missing out on a much clearer image.
Copper
Member
Nah, did you see all the added shadows? You can't do that through an emulator.
isn't that the case for most Pro enhancements? If want to get the most out of the Pro getting a 4k display really is the best option.
pretty done
Member
Native resolution >>>>>> shadows any day bro
In fact, shadows are always the first thing to get turned down when I'm optimizing.
Ohhh well, I am playing on a regular PS4 so I suppose that's not a concern for me personally. That's sucks for you guys though.
Also, you people acting like you should just play the game emulated are really confusing me. This version has so many improvements compared to the original US release right?
RayCharlizard
Member
When a Naughty Dog game is your base level comparison 95% of console titles start to look like shit. Virtuos is basically a port house lately.
A lot. And even more improvement compared to what can be emulated.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Ark PS4 Pro has a 720p mode, so it's not a concrete rule.
RayCharlizard
Member
720p mode, but a 1080p mode available as well.
texhnolyze
Banned
Some things are better in the remaster, while some others in the emulator.
I guess I'm waiting for a nice discount for this.
I guess I'm waiting for a nice discount for this.
KojiKnight
Member
The only real downside i see is some of those filtered textures look awful... Not all of them, mind you... But like the desert ground... Looks like someone applied an old fashion snes emulator filter to them which washes away the detail and makes it look almost cartoony, clashing with the improved models
Not nearly enough downside to hold me back from getting it, but i was always planning on waiting for a sale cause i didn't like 12 much.
Not nearly enough downside to hold me back from getting it, but i was always planning on waiting for a sale cause i didn't like 12 much.
HAHAHA
With that god awful LoD that swaps textures of everything whenever you walk next to it ?
I think not.
Especially not with the remaster permanently displaying high LoD and having better lightning, shadows, and Vaan abs on top of it.
As others have said the PS2 version looks better.
I assume in other pictures this is not the case?
Oh, that new color grading is hideous.
It looks like a terrible SweetFX/ReShade profile applied to the game.
That blurry appearance is not just due to a stronger depth of field effect - it's because they've made the image look really flat and low contrast now.
There are sometimes images which look like that posted to the PC screenshots thread, and all I can think is that it must be the result of what happens when you start tweaking an image to "look good" on a badly calibrated, low contrast display. It's upsetting that someone got paid to do that.
At least they don't appear to have butchered the character models this time around, like they did with Final Fantasy X, but I'm glad that emulation is an option.
It's a shame that Digital Foundry appear to be using component video to capture PS2 footage too, because it makes the game look worse than it ought to, with the reduced chroma resolution and ringing/sharpening.
It looks like a terrible SweetFX/ReShade profile applied to the game.
That blurry appearance is not just due to a stronger depth of field effect - it's because they've made the image look really flat and low contrast now.
There are sometimes images which look like that posted to the PC screenshots thread, and all I can think is that it must be the result of what happens when you start tweaking an image to "look good" on a badly calibrated, low contrast display. It's upsetting that someone got paid to do that.
At least they don't appear to have butchered the character models this time around, like they did with Final Fantasy X, but I'm glad that emulation is an option.
It's a shame that Digital Foundry appear to be using component video to capture PS2 footage too, because it makes the game look worse than it ought to, with the reduced chroma resolution and ringing/sharpening.
huh, I recall somebody telling me that they would be using the cutscene models everywhere.
I guess not. Still have to make do with the Clawz.
Watched the video on my tv and the ps4 version looks way better to me. better textures better everything, just darker.
kitsunelaine
Banned
And, you know, the whole "you get an extra job for a character" thing.
I think the lighting upgrades, the ambient occlusion, the character model and shadows, all come together to make the remaster look better - particularly since I've played the game once on PS3, and once via emulation.
I'm not really sure that the softness isn't since they were capturing on a Pro set to 4K output. Maybe Dark could clarify what was done here (whether it was captured from the Pro set to 1080p or 4K for the remainder of the video after talking about the resolution specifically). I'd think that 4k output would inherently be softer since it's upscaling 1440p prior to output that I would think inherently introduced some softness to the picture.
Frankly, after the jaggy mess that is the game on PS2, I'll take a little softness and the other graphical and gameplay upgrades.
It's also obvious that environment pop-in has been reduced. This is pretty apparent in the footage from Rabanastre, though I wish they'd have increased the NPC draw distance as well to reduce that pop-in.
It hits a pretty consistent 4K60, and you forgot wipeout.
Dictator93
Member
pretty done
Member
Wipeout is so damn impressive. Native 4K/60fps/HDR
Easily the best remaster package of all time.
Liabe Brave
Member
Prey has Pro support now.
So there's greater draw distance in Zodiac Age versus before, then? Digital Foundry don't seem to have mentioned that.
It also has absolutely no AA at all, and very little in the way of detailed textures. There are tradeoffs.
That is the case here. It's very, very difficult to tell apart the 1080p version and the 1440p version manually downsampled with an image editor. Partially this is the specific appearance of the game, and partially it's due to the comparatively low extra detail of 1440p.
How much clearer depends on the degree of downsampling. A native 4K image sampled down to 1080p is much clearer than 1440p down to 1080p.
There are 42 native 4K games on Pro, including 12 remasters.
Not with this game. Can you tell which of these crops is from the native 1080p version, and which is downsampled? (I did it manually.) If I didn't already know, I almost certainly couldn't tell. And this is with 400% zoom.
In this picture it's not the case, for some people. "Looks better" is a purely subjective assessment. The only objective statement to make is that in every picture, Zodiac Age has much more detail than the PS2 version.
What are they supposed to use instead? Component was the best possible option for PS2, wasn't it?
The PS2 supported RGB. You have to choose between RGB and component video for games which support progressive scan, but that does not apply to Final Fantasy XII.
I'm not 100% clear on what the situation is with the original PS3 systems that had hardware backwards compatibility, so I don't know if they might also be an option.
I know that 480i games do require additional processing, since the PS3 could not output a 480i signal over HDMI and did a bad job outputting 480p.
I remember there being talk of a blurring issue initially (unfortunately those image links are dead) but I think that was fixed via a firmware update.
I don't think that there's a way to get a clean 1:1 digital output from the original hardware though, unless a mod exists now.
Copper
Member
Hmm I'd take added details over a resolution bump any day. Especially when it's already at 1440p
Mr_Appleby
Member
Dealing with legacy code is kind of like renovating a house where, having identified a non-load bearing wall you knock it down to find that suddenly the taps don't work. So you fix the taps and the doorbell catches fire.
The fire won't go out but at least you can put some police tape around it so people don't try to use it. Unfortunately the tape also attracts wasps. The wasps start building nests in the attic, and there's so many of them that you need to rebuild the wall you knocked down earlier just to keep the roof from caving in.
So now you are back where you started, only with wasps in the attic and a permanent fire at the front door. At least the taps still work.
For 32767 litres anyway, at which point the pipes implode
Liabe Brave
Member
RGB is a type of component video. Are you perhaps thinking of composite video? If so, it would be weird for Digital Foundry to use that. For years dark10x has been a stickler for optimal image delivery in old games. But then, he didn't write this article so maybe the source image isn't pristine? Perhaps he'll drop by and let us know.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I'm curious as to what 60fps would add to Final Fantasy XII. That responsiveness is necessary for auto battling gambits?
Were there tons of panning shots?
Seriously what does 60fps add to this game?
RayCharlizard
Member
I watched the entire video twice and that potted plant is the only instance of reduced pop-in shown in all of the PS2 vs. PS4 comparisons. All of the NPC fade-in in the first city and objects in that section seemed to be identical in both versions. I don't think it's an instance of object pop-in so much as the plant may be part of the LOD of that area, and since the PS4 version uses the highest LOD throughout the game, the plant was already present in that scene when on PS2 it comes in with the higher LOD transition. DF may not have mentioned it because that was one of if not the only instance they saw in their recorded capture.
RayCharlizard
Member
#1 rule of videos on YouTube: Don't scroll down.
texhnolyze
Banned
You can always ignore or maybe not scrolling the video page.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I don't know about you but the remaster looks leagues better. Yes, the 'blurriness' which looks like DoF is heat-haze, we've seen in-city and other scenes with long distances, the haziness is not present there, it's in the desert area as an artistic choice.
That and all the other enhancements, shadows etc as already pointed out above.
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