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Did I just screw over the pizza delivery guy?
- Thread starter Relix
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LOL. Yeah... eff that!
My local pizza place has fucked up my orders countless times. In one year, I don't think there was ever an order without flaws (one time, they gave me someone else's order entirely). I tip them on and off. And I especially don't tip when it's the older gentlemen who seems to be the cousin or brother of the owner. He looks like he's mad at you for even answering the door, first of all.
My Lord and saviour tells me that TIPS were always designed to be optional -- not obligatory.
And it makes me laugh how Just-EAT asks how your service was before you even receive your order. I've given so many smiley faces on crap orders that I think it's actually encouraging restaurants to be shit at their job. Get money, do nothing, right?
Fuck tipping, honestly. And this is coming from someone who worked in the service industry for ten years.
Yeah exactly. I used to be a delivery guy in college and know what a hard job it is but you did nothing wrong in this case. In my experience lots of people didn't even give tips for good service and you even tipped for very late food.
Due to my experience as a driver when delivery is okay (45-60 minutes) I always give about 25% tip and when it's very fast or the guy is really courteous or the weather is bad I'll give up to 50% and a few times I've even called the restaurant to commend the driver. (This usually results in me always getting fast delivery because the drivers know there's a big incentive)
However, an hour and a half is way too long especially if your food was cold when you got it.
Raylan Targaryen
Member
5 minutes away? One of you is a terrible liar.
You identified the issue already. You called right when they open. I open a pizza shop as a driver 5 days a week, here's exactly what happened:
Driver #1 comes in at 10 or 1030, shop opens at 11. You place order for delivery, and so do the other 6 people who were waiting for the shop to open. Since there is only 1 driver, he has to strategically take the deliveries in the best order to get back to the shop the faatest. Yours was probably last.
You could say "they should staff more" but the reality is, schedules for fast food are based on business predictions to mininize labor cost. Normally, business is slow for the first hour, and then ramps up around 12 to 1, so that's when the second driver comes in. However, occasionallly you get an onslaught of orders the minute you open (cold or rainy days especially), and since this is an outlier the store isn't prepared. They probably called the second driver to come in early, but he didn't answer his phone. Also if it's a friday, in a busy area you'll get at least 10 orders to businesses in the lunch hour, employers buy food for the office.
Have literally been in the drivers end of this 100 times. They did their best. Nobody makes pizAs intentionally slow, in fact every chain has a computer where you click the order off once it's made. The time from order placed to order in the oven is a load time, and if this number isn't maintained at a low average, you will get yelled at by higher ups. Bonuses are awarded to managers with good load times.
If they told you it would be a half hour, it was probably right before they got pelted with orders, or if it was online, the wait time is based on the average of the last 3 orders, so first orders of the day will say 30 minutes even if there is 20 other orders.
Driver #1 comes in at 10 or 1030, shop opens at 11. You place order for delivery, and so do the other 6 people who were waiting for the shop to open. Since there is only 1 driver, he has to strategically take the deliveries in the best order to get back to the shop the faatest. Yours was probably last.
You could say "they should staff more" but the reality is, schedules for fast food are based on business predictions to mininize labor cost. Normally, business is slow for the first hour, and then ramps up around 12 to 1, so that's when the second driver comes in. However, occasionallly you get an onslaught of orders the minute you open (cold or rainy days especially), and since this is an outlier the store isn't prepared. They probably called the second driver to come in early, but he didn't answer his phone. Also if it's a friday, in a busy area you'll get at least 10 orders to businesses in the lunch hour, employers buy food for the office.
Have literally been in the drivers end of this 100 times. They did their best. Nobody makes pizAs intentionally slow, in fact every chain has a computer where you click the order off once it's made. The time from order placed to order in the oven is a load time, and if this number isn't maintained at a low average, you will get yelled at by higher ups. Bonuses are awarded to managers with good load times.
If they told you it would be a half hour, it was probably right before they got pelted with orders, or if it was online, the wait time is based on the average of the last 3 orders, so first orders of the day will say 30 minutes even if there is 20 other orders.
5 minutes or not, when you order for delivery you are waiting in line. It's like hitting chipotle at 5 on a saturday, but imagine if instead of just waiting in line, the guy at the counter had to drive to each persons house.
The reason they cant staff more is because around 1:30, business dies and stays dead until 430 usually. You cam't just have someone come in for a 2 hour shift, nobody would show up for that.
Sometimes they have drivers work split shifts, take a break from 1:30 and then work 4:30 to 9, but this isn't always possible. Scheduling is hard in food service, because most have second jobs.
MulderYuffie
Member
I read that title all kinds of wrong lol
crap monkey
Member
Right, like he's gonna order 4 $20 pizzas from a local restaurant. Chain food restaurants have their place, this would be such a case.
Yep. And if a chain food order takes a super long time to show up, 99.9 percent of the time, the reason is that they were too busy for the amount of people scheduled. Which will always be a problem, because the turn over rate is magnificently high, because 8.25 an hour is basically crap.
Srsly, everyone employed there has incentive to get you your food as fast as possible. The manager making pizzas gets his bonus based on average load time and delivery time. The driver makes more money by having a higher number of deliveries, so turn around time is number 1 priority.
Also I'd say most places have one manager, and two or 3 drivers in the morning. That's it. Because they can usually handle the business, and when it gets out of hand, the labor saved is worth the trade for a few late deliveries.
This load time idea sounds really bad. Where I worked in college if they knew orders were more than a driver could handle they would ask me to call in about 15 minutes before returning to the restaurant so they could put waiting orders in then so that they would be fresh going out. That way even if people had to wait their food would not be cold.
We had a heat rack. Every pizza, even old ones, went out hot into a special bag that kept it at least warm. The only reason for a cold pizza would be a ridiculously long delivery time. The driver may have been told to deliver a separate order on the other side of the city first for some reason.
Yep, heat racks.
And where I work, if it's busy enough that we have an hour and a half delivery time, there is no way to call the store to tell them when I'll be back. It would be one manager in the store, making pizzas a dozen behind, by himself, with 2 lines on hold. If I tried to call I'd immediately be put on hold, and if he tried to do anything fancier than make the pizzas in order as they came in, like wait and try to time everything just right, itd be impossible. It gets crazy hectic and we usually maintain under 30 minutes, but there are daya when I tell people it'll be a two hour wait for delivery, and theres nothing I can do about that.
Yep. I'd get called every once in a while on my days off to come in and help because they were swamped. It was always 50/50 if I wanted to go in (mostly because I'd have to shave) but I knew that'd mean good tips and I'd get off when it slowed down around 9.
Pizza delivery is a fascinating business really. I'm surprised we haven't had a Pizza Parlor sim game yet.
easterislandhead
Member
Lol that's one hell of a road closure.
I once drove delivery during a marathon that closed off half the city
Heat racks aren't the answer, they might keep food warm but the quality deteriorates. If people called for pickup and got there late and their food had been on the heat rack we'd just remake it for them when they got there if they could wait. Also I'd just call the manager's cell and say "back in 20" and hang up, it's not like you need to have a long conversation.
That's great if you aren't swamped and understaffed.
I ate plenty of heat rack pizza (people not picking up orders or delivery pranks or whatever) and that stuff is perfectly fine with some parmesan and red pepper flakes
The most fascinating thing to me, after 6 years of pizA delivery is.
1. People just assume youre fully staffed at all times, but having a full staff at open and close would tank labor numbers. You start out the day with a couple people, add a bunch by dinner rush, and then you send them all home as soon as business slows down, except for the 1 or 2 closing drivers . So sudden spikes in business are naturally going to lead to decreased service.
2. People never even think about the fact that they are waiting in line, because they never see the line. If I have 5 deliveries on the screen and it's just me, and another order comes through from the internet. It is going to be an hour and a half before I get to you, even if you are only 5 minutes away. I wish I could get there faster. Please do not scream "what the fuck took so long?!"And snatch the pizza from me and slam the door in my face.(this really happens)
Wolfe
Member
I know you said this was in the past and all but god damn what a fucking shitty attitude.
OP: 90 minutes for a delivery 5 minutes away? Naw they're the ones that fucked up. It would have been one thing if the pizza still arrived hot but cold? Fuck that and fuck his bullshit "traffic" excuse
I thought papa John's opened at 11 but didn't start delivering until noon? In the morning odds are they only have maybe 1 delivery driver, they could have forced him to take several deliveries and told him to go to a different location further away first. Or they could have put the pizzas in the oven and timed it so when the driver arrives to work that he could take it immediately, but he was running late to work due to traffic.
I mean regardless, the order was refunded or givin for free and that was the right call, it's no sweat off papa johns, theys rather you be happy.
But also, let's not pretend there aren't plenty of non-nefarious reasons for an order 5 minutes away to be an hour and a half late.
As I said before, it's because OP called right at open, when there is still only one driver and they got multiple orders all at once. This happens about once a week usually, except for the summer, when business in general is usually slower.
Srsly, things can get fucked in a matter of seconds in morning pizza shifts. Finish the first phone call of the day and place order, immediately after 3 internet orders (that were waiting to get sent when the store opened) and then 2 more lines start ringing. Something like this in the first 5 minutes of being open can set you back quite a while on delivery time, not to mention all the prep that still needs done, so you'll likely be prepping stuff on the fly, which is also slower.
Edit:. I keep seeing the 5 minutes away being brought up, keep in mind distance from the pizza shop means nothing if there are 5 other orders. There isn't a new driver waiting to deliver the food for every order placed, it's one or two guys doing all of it. Some places are much further away then 5 minutes, and they might have to send those orders first.
This is a flawed way of thinking too, basing your tip on delivery time. It's always in the drivers best interest to get to you quickly. If he's late, it's because theyre busy.
Would you tip a waiter less because you had to wait 45 minutes to get a table at a busy restaurant?
This is bullshit too, I've never seen anyone do this in 10 yeara of food service, and anyone who respects themselves would never tamper with food.
friskykillface
Banned
1.5 hours 0_o
And the distance you described was short af
That's crazy
And the distance you described was short af
That's crazy
Read this my prior posts and you'll see that it happens for a reason, it's not like the driver just drove around for an hour and then took the delivery.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yea. Having worked a lot of pizza delivery in my youth we never did this even when we had some who would call in on every damn order. Now we wouldn't go out of our way to help them by ringing things up with cheaper coupons etc. They certainly weren't treated the friendliest either but they got their food as ordered without any bodily fluids added.
Brianimaniac
Banned
If I were going to do that, I sure as hell wouldn't let anyone see me doing it.
People don't do it because it's generally not worth it, you just get the shitty customer's transaction overwith as smoothly as possible so you can move onto the next. When you deal with upwards of 50 customers a day, the handful who are shitty are mostly just an afterthought. In a foodservice environment, you tend to spend your energy being nice to the pleasant customers rather than wasting your energy fucking with the assholes.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Even after living there I still never understood how Americans can't break free of the nonsense social brainwashing that these industries did to them. Giving someone a monetary gift of gratitude for failing to perform their job. Literally only in America.
It's not failing to perform their job though. He delivered the pizza, appologized for the wait, the manager comped the meal.
Why should the guy making 5 dollars an hour and putting thousands of miles on his car be penalized for a busy morning that led to late deliveries?
And before anyone brings up "they need to pay their employees more!". Yeah, in a perfect world. However, the 13 dollars an hour average I make delivering is the minimum I would do it for, as with car maintenance and such, anything less would be simply not worth it, and no pizza joint is going to start paying drivers that much, if they did the prices on food would be raised, and drivers would probably make less overall.
Edit: also to answer OP you didn't fuck him over. The manager on duty knows exactly how busy it is and would never blame the driver. If the driver was up to something it would be extremely obvious, as there is a screen for dispatch that shows what drivers are on the road and how long they've been on the road. If they were slow and the manager sees a driver on the road for more than 40 or so minutea, he or she would immediateld know something was up.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
His job is to deliver the pizza on time. He failed.
If the pizza had the wrong toppings, then the chef is at fault. Not tipping the driver in this scenario doesn't make sense. But in this thread's scenario, the driver mentioned they couldn't plan a route accounting for traffic that delivered the pizzas on time, which is now in their realm of responsibilities. Meaning I relay my feedback by not giving any tip, even though I technically should pay for the actual food because the chef side upheld their responsibilities. However, in this case the quality of food relies on the freshness/warmth, and so the driver has now tarnished the work the chef did too, forcing the chef's side to compensate the customer too.
At the very least I hope the restaurant took all of the op's tip from the driver.
If the pizza had the wrong toppings, then the chef is at fault. Not tipping the driver in this scenario doesn't make sense. But in this thread's scenario, the driver mentioned they couldn't plan a route accounting for traffic that delivered the pizzas on time, which is now in their realm of responsibilities. Meaning I relay my feedback by not giving any tip, even though I technically should pay for the actual food because the chef side upheld their responsibilities. However, in this case the quality of food relies on the freshness/warmth, and so the driver has now tarnished the work the chef did too, forcing the chef's side to compensate the customer too.
At the very least I hope the restaurant took all of the op's tip from the driver.
Stallion Dan
Member
Whoever was responsible will be found out via the complaint. If it went out for delivery on time it was the drivers fault, if it didn't the kitchen can take the blame.
Reminds me of when my friends and I ordered 6 pizzas, meant to arrive in 30 mnutes, took 3.5 hours and several phone calls. My friend just answered the door took the pizzas and said they were free for being late, shutting the door instantly. The place had no such policy nor did any of the calls we made say they'd be free. We never planned to order from there ever again.
Place was called Chicken, Ribs and Pizza Diner. We should have figured it out sooner, we were warned.
Reminds me of when my friends and I ordered 6 pizzas, meant to arrive in 30 mnutes, took 3.5 hours and several phone calls. My friend just answered the door took the pizzas and said they were free for being late, shutting the door instantly. The place had no such policy nor did any of the calls we made say they'd be free. We never planned to order from there ever again.
Place was called Chicken, Ribs and Pizza Diner. We should have figured it out sooner, we were warned.
Dude, read my other posts. The delivery was most likely late because there wasn't enough staff for the volume of orders, its most likely just one, maybe 2 drivers in the morning, and if they get a bunch of deliveries at the same time, some are going to be late, no way around it. If he had 3 other deliveries that were all a half hour round trip, it's not his fault that the 4th delivery was late. Sometimes places get busy, to say someone is incompetent at their job because the store was super busy is crazy.
Sometimes I deliver orders in 2 hours, it's not because I'm incompetent, it's because we're understaffed and we get 10 orders at a time out of nowhere, I'm always doing my best, and to assume otherwise is ignorant and offensive to me.
Edit: also your distinction between driver and "chef" is weird. Drivers are making pizzas too when theyre in the store. And definitely cutting them and packaging them.
Dusktildawn48
Member
There's no point in arguing. Its like talking to a brick wall.
It just makes me so sad and frustrated as a hard working delivery driver. Like, the explanation for a late delivery is super obvious, drivers don't just take an hour of leisure driving and then, oh whoops the delivery is late. People need to use some fucking common sense.
The job is hard, demanding, and chaotic. Often, your delivery driver took your order on the phone, made the pizza, cut it, and then brought it to you, as fast as he could. After his 8 hour shift was supposed to end, he also probably took deliveries for an hour and then had to stay another hour to wash dishes. I NEVER get out on time. That people just assume a late delivery is "lazy driver fuck up" really makes me feel bad. Like, we're all trying to get the delivery there on time, it's in our best interest.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
That logic makes no sense from a customer's perspective. Your place of business being logistically inefficient means nothing to me. I would just question why someone would continue to work in a place that doesn't understand its own staffing requirements.
Point is, that industry already convinced the public that the kitchen and driver are some how two different entities and not both representing the same single business. My example above proves that. People will usually still tip a driver because they believe that the driver is independent of what the kitchen side does. But then the other side of that coin is that the driver has a service part of the transaction to fulfill, and their failure to do so due to reasons resulting from the same business as the kitchen - as in your example of a bunch of 'random' orders- does not some how exempt them, and they should not receive any type of compensation of gratitude if they can't perform their duties.
Of course if the restaurant informs customers that the wait time is long, a lot of this becomes more dependent on the specific circumstances of each situation. But you shouldn't make assumptions on what happened in the op's situation either. You don't know why they were later either.
Point is, that industry already convinced the public that the kitchen and driver are some how two different entities and not both representing the same single business. My example above proves that. People will usually still tip a driver because they believe that the driver is independent of what the kitchen side does. But then the other side of that coin is that the driver has a service part of the transaction to fulfill, and their failure to do so due to reasons resulting from the same business as the kitchen - as in your example of a bunch of 'random' orders- does not some how exempt them, and they should not receive any type of compensation of gratitude if they can't perform their duties.
Of course if the restaurant informs customers that the wait time is long, a lot of this becomes more dependent on the specific circumstances of each situation. But you shouldn't make assumptions on what happened in the op's situation either. You don't know why they were later either.
Stallion Dan
Member
He said they needed reheat the pizza, that to me is a complete failure of the business. Drivers should be sent out with less orders so everything gets where it should hot. Not warm, hot. The business should also know its busy periods and have enough drivers working.
Cannot see them offering such a shit service regularly and staying in business.
You just come accross as kind of a dick who has no experience working food service. It's not that the business was logistically incompetent, they make the schedule based on projectes sales that are a combination od sales from the last year, the last week, and a few other variables. This schedule is made a week in advance. Getting a sudden spike of business is impossible to account for, so when it happens everyone does their best, and we appologize and comp orders.
Also a tip is not gratitude, it's a service charge that is flexible. Places without tips include this service charge in the price. If you want to stiff a driver based on wait time, that's your choice, but it makes you an unempathetic dick.
I understand this reasoning, but sometimes with heavy unexpected business, this cannot be accounted for, and they can't overstaff "just in case" and then send people home after an hour if business is slow. It is right to comp the meal, or offer to remake it, but blaming the driver is uninformed.
I wouldn't call this shit service, it's dealing with business the best you can based on restrictions given to you by a huge corporation, and also limited by your staff availability and the extremely fluctuating variable of how busy you will be based on your own predictions.
Like, I wish some of you could work a week at my job and see how it all actually works, I guarantee you would change your opinion.
Dusktildawn48
Member
I'm a driver too man. Literally just ended my shift. People here just dont understand. I mean yeah I'm putting 20k miles on my car a year to bring them their food but what cheapass is gonna care? We actually have 1 business thats close to us that stiffs 95% of the time. So if I'm taking them as a double theyre going last. Call it petty but I dont feel guilty in the slightest bit. And where I work ive never in 9 years taken a delivery thats an hour and half old but my store may just be staffed right.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
A tip is a voluntary compensation of gratitude for going above and beyond. You need to realize you were raised in a culture that completely warped this type of action into a self-serving, money-grab for businesses at the expense of employees. I understand that's what you grew up in, I understand that's the systems that paid you, but for the sake of intelligent conversation, you have to come from a place that realizes that giving someone monetary compensation above the stated price of an item even when the service is not worthy of it is ludicrous. It is insane. If you at least don't get that, then it is indeed like talking to a wall here.
If you do get that, then we can debate about how different circumstances in the industry should affect how the business and customer react. If the only anchor to your point will always be telling the other side to feel sorry for the poor delivery boy and his Civic, there's no point. You should also realize that America making employees use their own personal vehicles is also something insane in most other countries lol.
If you do get that, then we can debate about how different circumstances in the industry should affect how the business and customer react. If the only anchor to your point will always be telling the other side to feel sorry for the poor delivery boy and his Civic, there's no point. You should also realize that America making employees use their own personal vehicles is also something insane in most other countries lol.
Word. Yeah it's rare I take a delivery that late but it does happen.
And to put it in perspective for some of you, my paycheck for 40 hr weeks is about 300 every two weeks after taxes. This would be impossible to live on, the vast majority of my income is tips.
Dusktildawn48
Member
If you have such a problem with it then stop ordering from the company, dont fuck over someone who has no power to change it.
Dude, you just don't get it and that's fine. But to equate working for tips to feeling sorry for the "poor delivery boy" is condescending at best, and pejorative at worst. I actually make decent money because 90 percent of people understand the system and happily tip. Just because you don't understand how my chosen profession pays my bills doesn't make you some all knowing vehicle of pay reform in a tip based industry. Seriously, step back.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I haven't been in a place to order delivery in years, so that's not an issue for me. What I'm trying to discuss is the idea of basically always giving a tip, when in fact the service is less than satisfactory. I'm not trying to change the system, that's on you guys of you want. I'm just having a conversation about how customers should give proper feedback to the entire business as a whole. Isolating and rewarding one side when it was actually their side that failed makes no sense from a customer's standpoint.
Er, I didn't equate anything to anything. You brought up the idea of being unempathetic and even called me, indirectly maybe, a dick. I'm saying empathy for the delivery person means nothing in this situation. I'm paying for a product and service. You are the service portion. Why do you need empathy. I'm not here personally attacking your livelihood, I'm discussing a certain instance that is unfair for the customer.
Stiffing the driver isn't giving feedback to the business at all. The business gives no fucks how much you tip. Stiffing the driver just gives feedback to the driver that, regardless of circumstances beyond their control, you think the extremely busy morning they just walked into and have to work there asses off all day at is only worth the 5 dollars an hour the store pays. You send this message out of some sense of entitlement, even though you refuse to empathize with or accept how their compensation works.
Again, they didn't fail to do their job, they dis it best they could.
Please tell me how you' as a single driver, would deliver even 3 orders all on time that were in opposite directions.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Well the driver is a part of the business regardless of societal perception. You're not an independent mercenary. According to above, you sometimes work in the kitchen and even make the product too. How is that not feedback to the business?? Again, with the empathy word. What empathy. Pizza to my door in a designated time, give you money, sometimes even more than the designated price. That's it.
How am I stiffing you if you didn't perform your duties, whether personally your fault or due to an act of god. I'm not talking about a scenario where everything came as promised and I didn't tip you. We're talking about a situation where the business failed. The driver is a member of the business. In op's scenario you think the driver deserved money..?
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