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[ryaxnb]

True regarding apps not for a fixed platform, although there will be targets set during development, for instance, the fantasy football app, they will be using animations that are expected to run smoothly with a certain amount of power, decreasing the allocation will decrease the framerate and fluidity of the app and create a sub par experience, if this is now a sub par experience, why not use it on your tablet where it does run smoothly?

Also games can't run in snap mode, only apps, the games will run exactly as before snapping, as the resources will remain unchanged for the games due to this allocation.

EDIT: they can change this 10% but unlike previous generations, part of this allocation is not by the OS team, it is used by third parties.

Makes sense. I'm just saying, for instance, in android game, background tasks are used by third parties as well, but the amount they use varies and games just dynamically adjust, so basically the issue is marriage of the "dynamic adjustment" with "coding to the metal" (which suggests fixed, not dynamic, hardware)
And for game snapping, i was thinking of something like a racing game that has a snap mode that just tells you which of your friends are online and offers to "switch" to game mode and start the game whenever you feel you have enough friends online -- which would technically not be the game at all (a seperate app with tie in to the game) -- but i don't know if that's possible -- it would be one use of snap mode i might actually like is being able to have a persistent friends list while gaming for some other game, to know when enough people are online to start a match.

 

[Ricerocket]

Just look at the posts.. It's pretty obvious that any indication of the ps4 losing any ground in the spec area brings an all out bash fest of defensive responses .

People just need to relax and play the games.

Ps4 won't ever get killer instinct and xbone won't ever get killzone. No matter what the specs are.

Ju

PS4 is losing grounds here? This news confirm X1 is worse than most people thought if they didn't read kotaku's state of system use article on X1 which widens the gap further.

 

[Kuro]

So, many people were theorizing a 20-30% "real world" power advantage for the PS4 on paper, but once you add in the 10% XB1 CPU boost + this 10% GPU boost on top of the esram to make up for the rest of the difference, we're probably looking at ps3/360 type parity for these machines when it's all said and done.

lol I honestly believed this was sarcasm for a second.

 

[Pain]

Just look at the posts.. It's pretty obvious that any indication of the ps4 losing any ground in the spec area brings an all out bash fest of defensive responses .

People just need to relax and play the games.

Ps4 won't ever get killer instinct and xbone won't ever get killzone. No matter what the specs are.

Ju

But it's not losing any ground. That's the point. The people you're talking about aren't being defensive, they are just making fun of MS for not getting their shit together and constantly shining a spotlight on their weaker specs.

 

[stryke]

Wasn't the gap only at 40% after the gpu up clock?

The 40% derived from comparing tflops does not take any GPU reserve into account.

 

[velociraptor]

Good news indeed. With the recent PS4 news and now this, it seems that the difference between the platforms is shrinking. Don't get me wrong, the PS4 is still clearly more powerful, but it seems it will be a close race.

Assuming they free up all 10%, The PS4 still has a 530GFLOP advantage.

 

[artist]

Does anybody else think the title reminds them of misterxmedia?

 

[mrklaw]

More to add from my last post...

so he is basically agreeing that they are bandwidth limited as well?

 

[Finalizer]

Wasn't the gap only at 40% after the gpu up clock?

Not counting the 10% GPU reserve on the Xbone, which this article is essentially confirming. The idea is that MS OS devs may be able to chip away at that reserve through future development. It leaves the percentage disparity anywhere between 40 to 56.

 

[XBOunity]

Wow 1st, cool news!

1st post is always the truth. Cant spin otherwise

 

[ryaxnb]

What if I'm using skype concurrently with a game? In this situation, couldn't skype or any other app I've snapped demand resources required by the game? Does this mean they are reducing the promised multitasking functionality?

This seems like a panicked concession to unhappy devs or just bullshit PR.

Clearly any game would basically have to assume 90% is the minimum it could get and not absolutely rely on more. It's possible a game using this could use dynamic resolution or something, or just use the extra power to not drop frames as badly, but don't expect higher quality graphics, since games wll never be able to assume the power is always around unless ms somehow feels like disabling snap for one game (which is a bad idea).

And yes, this is somewhat of a desperate move; games traditionally on consoles assume fixed resources and are faster because of it; it's entirely uncertain how well a game could both do this and also use the extra resources it may have for a performance boost in a non-negligible way without complicated programming that most games will never bother with.

 

[Hawk269]

how do they plan to do that without reducing the amount of resources available to snap mode apps? I guess most apps you'd be likely to snap would be data driven stuff - skype, IE, NFL fantasy league etc, which wouldn't need much GPU. Maybe they could make it so any games/graphics intensive apps aren't snappable next to a game?

Actually, you nailed it, imho. This is nothing magical or any secret sauce or anything like that. All this means is that they will give developers the ability to turn off the snap features and any other resource hogging features if the developers need that extra juice. It just sounds like MS will make it so that it is an on/off type of thing. Your disable the snap feature and other features that run concurrent with the game, utilize those resources for the game itself to give a bit more performance.

 

[ICPEE]

One week MS states "its all about the games" and then the next moment they bring up specs. Then the next moment its about "our diverse software lineup" and then the next moment its specs again.

I'm not too clued up about ALU's, CU's and other technical jargon but this constant flip flopping between specs and games almost weekly tells me that they are not entirely comfortable with the consumers perspective of the Xbox One.

If it all really was about the games we would be hearing about Kinect this and Kinect that but for a system that has been designed in concert with Kinect you hardly hear about them talking it up. In fact i can't remember when i last heard MS talk about the piece of tech in relation to games. There was that D4 game article on IGN but that was like a fart in the wind compared to the coverage that games like Ryse and Forza is getting.

Selling a peripheral central to your gaming experience at launch really should have that killer app or AAA title that takes advantage of it. The fact that not one Kinect killer app is anywhere near launch ready speaks volumes about MS and how prepared they really are for this new generation.

MS week in week out continues to look a mess. There is no other way to spin it. These guys are like a bunch of headless chickens compared to their launch of the 360.

I will bet there will be yet another Xbox One specs article in the next week. The constant need to remind everyone that it is not underpowered rather highlights that it actually may be.

 

[SaucyJack]

I'm confused.

Headline says - XB1 to have more jam tomorrow

First line says - XB1 actually 10% weaker than we thought

I thought DF had a reputation to uphold?

 

[Insane Metal]

Both companies will likely reduce the reserves and memory footprint over time. I wonder if they'll cut any features to allow for this, or if it's just through optimisation?

This x 1000

 

[Freki]

Wasn't the gap only at 40% after the gpu up clock?

Yesterday:

Xbox one 1.31 Tflops
vs.
PS4 1.84 Tflops

=> ~40% advantage for the PS4


Today

Xbox one 90% * 1.31 Tflops => 1,18 TFlops
vs.
PS4 1.84 Tflops

=> ~56% advantage for the PS4


Where you got your 30% from I do not know...

 

[killatopak]

Didn't the 360 see a boost some time before it's launch? Correct me if I'm wrong but I do recall seeing something like that.

Additional 256MB of RAM, not upclocks of CPU or GPU.

 

[FairXchange]

Good for MS for trying to use every available resource to make the Xbox One more competitive with the PS4. However, it goes to show that there is a real schism between what they set out to build, and what they want it to be right now. It seems like their wishing for a more powerful console, well then why not make one in the first place?

 

[LiquidSolid]

Well we dont know what the PS4 OS is reserving really. Wouldnt be shocked if the resuve a little bit of everything just like the X1 only day 1. I mean the only thing we know for sure was the 3.5 gb of ram rumour was pulled out of Digital Foundrys ass.

There's absolutely no reason to believe they're reserving any of the GPU though. Their multitasking is very simple and can all be done using the CPU and RAM. Nothing we've heard or seen indicates that they've come up with something like 'Snap' that requires multiple programs to be rendered simultaneously.

 

[KidBeta]

Wouldnt all platforms be doing this constantly as part of the optimisation cycle for every release of the OS?.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

The more I read this thread the more I am starting to think it will be littered with corpses.

Doubt it, Some of them are getting far far more subtle.

 

[ICPEE]

I'm confused.

Headline says - XB1 to have more jam tomorrow

First line says - XB1 actually 10% weaker than we thought

I thought DF had a reputation to uphold?

Confusing to me that these spec articles regarding MS keep popping up when they keep reminding everyone its about the games.

Not too long ago MS stated that they purposely didnt target a high end system when designing the Xbox One. Now that can't shut up about upclocks and unlocking more power. I'm going to be direct and say that they are 180'ing all over the shop. Constantly changing your message is not a good thing. MS needs a kick up the rear because the Xbox division is a bit of a mess right now as is there PR department.

 

[pixlexic]

PS4 is losing grounds here? This news confirm X1 is worse than most people thought if they didn't read kotaku's state of system use article on X1 which widens the gap further.

yeah the actual numbers wasn't really the point of my post .. But just look at the replies to my post from some of the people.. Same issue. People just jump all over any spec talk as if they will lose everything if they don't .

 

[killatopak]

just like the ram for game: 5GB vs 5.5-6GB

so now it is 1.31*90% vs 1.84*100%

right?

Fixed.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Wouldnt all platforms be doing this constantly as part of the optimisation cycle for every release of the OS?.

Yes, but don't let facts come between the "gap is shrinking" argument!

 

[ryaxnb]

Thanks to all the posters for reminding everyone of the PS4s flop and rop advantages, this article speaks about OS footprint and MS attempt to reduce this over time, which obviously cant be discussed without continual affirmation of the PS4 power advantage. Especially helpful are the comparisons to a mythical PS4 with no OS footprint. Afterall, if we let those who are interested in the xbox one discuss specs on their own, they would all just eat up MSs message without questions. Thats why the community here is so great, for their "balance".

The thing is PS4 has no Snap mode; so the GPU footprint of it should be just whatever is neccesary to maintain the GPU and heat levels and such ... i.e. basically nothing. When PS4 is gaming, there is no other task allowed to use the GPU for anything. All background apps are speculated (though not confirmed) to use only CPU so as to save the GPU for the foreground app, and when the PS4 UI pops up, the game is paused in place. This is fairly normal console design; it's also how 3ds works, for instance. It allows for a roughly 0% GPU footprint by the OS, though there will always be a CPU footprint with modern OSes.

 

[2345425]

Wouldn't that lead to slowdown of the Os when playing a game, much like the XMB on PS3?[/quote ]

That depends .. They could alternate when in snap mode .. Half the frames . Draw the game in one frame then update the os in next . If the ui is running solid 60 fps it would knock it down to 30 bug that would not affect the speed at which the ui runs ... Just the speed at which it is drawn.

And wow at the Sony defense force .. You have nothing to defend here. So they can knock 10 percent of the gap. You still have 30%

50% performance difference - 10% upclock + 10% GPU reserve = 50%

Freeing up the GPU reserve puts us at ~40%, plus whatever they need for Kinect and snap functionality. Correct me if my math is wrong.

edit: beaten

 

[XBOunity]

This is very good news. I woke up today thinking 1.17 and now its 1.31. Dat snap.

 

[N30RYU]

so then the gap betwen ps4 and one is the same... only that before it was even bigger?

 

[funkystudent]

There's absolutely no reason to believe they're reserving any of the GPU though. Their multitasking is very simple and can all be done using the CPU and RAM. Nothing we've heard or seen indicates that they've come up with something like 'Snap' that requires multiple programs to be rendered simultaneously.

Would stuff like video streaming/recording and in game video chat require the GPU?

 

[Hawk269]

This x 1000

I did not see Nib say that originally, but I agree with you and Nib. Over time, they will allow more of the reserved RAM pool for OS functions to be accessed for games. No way we are going 8-10 years when each system is reserving 2-3 GB of Ram just for OS functions and not eventually find ways of allowing game developers access to some of that memory for the games themselves.

 

[graywolf323]

how does Leadbetter still have a job? he's singlehandedly destroying their reputation

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Not shrinking. Only confirming what we expected. Everyone was running with PS4 at 40% GPU advantage with 1.84TF vs 1.31TF. Now we know it's actually 1.18TF that's available for Xbone.

Yup. That's exactly what I got from it. They really should just not talk. Phil Harrison made some progress yesterday and now we have this bullshit again

 

[shinra-bansho]

Only fucking Leadbetter, now doing a far better job than that Larry guy, could possibly spin a "Kinect takes away 10% of GPU power" story into something sounding positive.

A true master.

What the FUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK?

Someone should tell AMD they're doing it wrong.

16 ROPs is now the perfect balance.

Just like 12 CUs clocked at 853 MHz.

 

[Cidd]

This is very good news. I woke up today thinking 1.17 and now its 1.31. Dat snap.

Mhm, where's Bish when you need him?

 

[Skeff]

Would stuff like video streaming/recording and in game video chat require the GPU?

Video chat will, but it would only be reserved if you can video chat whilst playing a game.

Video streaming/recording does not require GPU, there is specialized hardware in the PS4 for this.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Yesterday:

Xbox one 1.31 Tflops
vs.
PS4 1.84 Tflops

=> ~40% advantage for the PS4


Today

Xbox one 90% * 1.31 Tflops => 1,18 TFlops
vs.
PS4 1.84 Tflops

=> ~56% advantage for the PS4


Where you got your 30% from I do not know...

Xbone uses Steiner Mathematics.

"You take your 40% advantage, and add it to my 75% chance of beating Samoa Joe at Sacrifice PPV, multiply by the 10% unlocked potential of the Xbox One to the power of 8GBDDR5 and you have a 141 2/3% chance that I am a genetic freak!"

Spoiler

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT ASSES

 

[IN&OUT]

so then the gap betwen ps4 and one is the same... only that before it was even bigger?

gap is getting bigger after MS confirmed 10% GPU reserve.

 

[ryaxnb]

Would stuff like video streaming/recording and in game video chat require the GPU?

Video streaming would not if the console has a seperate video encode/decode region of the integrated chipset, as many ARM processors do. I do not know if PS4 has one. In game video chat would use a very small amount of GPU, but if there is a seperate video encode/decode region, it'd be small because the video encoding for the chat would be done there, and the only use of GPU would be to push the chat window to the framebuffer.

 

[killatopak]

I thought they were both from AMD?

misterxmedia Nvidia+AMD APU confirmed!!!

Spoiler

jk

Yes. Both are from AMD so its moot point.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Wouldn't that lead to slowdown of the Os when playing a game, much like the XMB on PS3?[/quote ]

That depends .. They could alternate when in snap mode .. Half the frames . Draw the game in one frame then update the os in next . If the ui is running solid 60 fps it would knock it down to 30 bug that would not affect the speed at which the ui runs ... Just the speed at which it is drawn.

And wow at the Sony defense force .. You have nothing to defend here. So they can knock 10 percent of the gap. You still have 30%

....But they can't. Why are people so atrociously bad at math in this thread? They're admitting that they're widening the gap by 10%. They might get back to 40% at the end of the generation. This is of course not taking into account that the PS4 OS might lock away a much smaller portion of the GPU for the OS, but that still makes my statement true if you just replace 10% with 10-x% with "x" being whatever small percent of the GPU the PS4 locks away.

 

[KidBeta]

Would stuff like video streaming/recording and in game video chat require the GPU?

Nope, both consoles have dedicated h264 encoders/decoders.

 

[ICPEE]

All this confirms to me is that a Kinectless SKU is coming...

You can bet your bottom dollar it is on its way. Its the only way Xbox One will be competitive with the PS4.

 

[SLY_]

Good for MS for trying to use every available resource to make the Xbox One more competitive with the PS4. However, it goes to show that there is a real schism between what they set out to build, and what they want it to be right now. It seems like their wishing for a more powerful console, well then why not make one in the first place?

Everything this console was meant to be has been retracted and/or re-imagined. All they've spent time doing is trying to minimize the power gap, which apparently didn't matter during the planning and design phases of the console.

The point being, they really should've stuck to the original concept of the X1. I think the reversal has doomed this console.

Steve Jobs, to steal a quote, said to ignore customer requests and build your product based on YOUR own vision and present it the the audience. Who knows the reception had that console made it to launch and people been able to experience it?

Now they're trying to play cards they don't hold.

 

[Hydrargyrus]

Xbox One teraflop for gaming

 

[mrklaw]

Would stuff like video streaming/recording and in game video chat require the GPU?

video recording no, because PS4 has dedicated hardware for that. It'd take some of the memory and CPU (a little bit) and some HDD write bandwidth

video chat would, but have they even announced that?

video streaming - like twitch? might if you're also having a video of yourself overlaid (it might need to overlay that on the game screen so you can monitor what is shown) - we haven't seen any demos of that I don't think. thats a good question actually

 

[Pie and Beans]

I would what the number of articles it is Leadbetter has to hit before he's offered the job, or perhaps its measured by their effect on pre-orders?

 

[N30RYU]

gap is getting bigger after MS confirmed 10% GPU reserve.

I know, but in any case if they free thaf 10% the gap is the gap we though we had yesterday

 

[IAmRandom31]

Is it confirmed in the PS4 that the southbridge I/O ARM chip handles ALL background processes and such like that? Is that why we have never heard anything about the PS4 using up 2 CPU cores for the OS's and some GPU is reserved for the OS's?

Any kind of solid confirmation on that? I would think so. I would think the southbridge I/O with its abilities would run the OS's in the background during gameplay, along with handling the background downloading / streaming and the like.

 

[AndyD]

Wouldnt all platforms be doing this constantly as part of the optimisation cycle for every release of the OS?.

Pretty much. With all resources too, including hard drive allocation, RAM, CPU, GPU. But it's all in how and when it's presented. And system wars of course.