Maximilian Kolbe
Member
There are people really believe Scorpio is a next-gen Xbox.
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[Digital Foundry] New Scorpio Spec Leak: ESRAM Gone, GPU Features Revealed
- Thread starter Hoo-doo
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There are people really believe Scorpio is a next-gen Xbox.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
MS makes more money on your digital software buys of their published games than they do on hardware. I'm sure they're broken up by this turn of events.
Astral Dog
Member
Actually 25% on portable mode,but yeah
Dark Cloud
Member
I think some are questioning what's the point when Sony can drop the PS4 Pro to $350 and it has more games. Like what's the point in even getting an Xbox Scorpio is what some are asking.
Interfectum
Member
I mean, it's either a PS4 Pro+ or a PS4 Pro++
Either way, it serves the exact same purpose as the Pro. The biggest difference is it'll do 4K better and MS marketing will sell a lot more initial units (imo).
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
In my case, it was the mention of focusing on the checker boarding 4K rendering. Some of us thought maybe there's enough raw power to not have to rely on faux 4K rendering. Especially with their mention of everything being 'true 4K' earlier.
I understand not every game is optimized the same way, but still a bit disappointing to be honest. No doubts this will easily be the most powerful gaming console at release, but the Pro (more so because of the games on it) will still be my primary device.
LordOcidax
Member
Looks like is going to use de same Jaguar cores from the Xbox One... thats not good at all.
Nothing hugely surprising. SRAM is largely redundant with 320GB/s of (presumably) GDDR5X, and they never would have been able to accommodate a 4K framebuffer on-die anyway. If they adopt Vega's TBR that should help quite a bit with bandwidth as well.
Zen was out the window as soon as they confirmed 8 cores. There was never any chance of them cramming a workstation CPU in there, and for a console focussed almost purely on increased resolution it would have been a pretty poor allocation of resources.
Zen was out the window as soon as they confirmed 8 cores. There was never any chance of them cramming a workstation CPU in there, and for a console focussed almost purely on increased resolution it would have been a pretty poor allocation of resources.
GeordieMark
Member
As is always the case.
randomengine
Banned
I'm not sure why you feel the need to attack me personally. Do my opinions offend you?
yeah, but is it powerful 'enough'?
If both systems can't run games natively at 2160p30, the power differential isn't as meaningful. Especially with more and more games adopting dynamic resolutions, it'd be even less noticeable.
Something like 1800cb on the pro vs 2160cb on Scorpio is way less noticeable of a difference than 900p vs 1080p on a 1080 screen.
Resolution bumps do have diminishing returns. And i don't think devs are going to offer high framerate modes on games that run at 30 fps on the PS4 pro.
It's certainly the most powerful console for first parties, but i don't think devs are going to spend a lot of effort to optimize around that many hardware configurations - i feel like, now more than ever, they're going to have parity between ps4 pro and Scorpio. I mean, why bother? The Pro isn't selling gangbusters, i don't see Scorpio doing that much better, especially as we can see that many people are filling their Xbone ecosystems needs with the One S.
VR, on the other hand, might be amazing on scorpio, especially, if they offer proper Oculus integration (i.e. oculus touch controllers, and none of that mini-USB, camera tracked move controller stuff)
BRocknRolla
Member
Well, hopefully this throws a little water on the fire for those who kept shouting that this would be a new gen for MS. MS was clear that compatibility would be happening (Everywhere outside VR), and expecting entirely new architecture was most likely going to preclude that.
For me, this means I won't have to upgrade my PC again any time soon after upgrading my GPU last year. If the CPUs of these boxes keep being relatively week, my PC will keep being more powerful.
I do wonder if MS will keep suggesting "native 4k" at this point. I'm sure they can tailor first party titles to 4k at this point (Though I'm all but sure they'll use variable resolution even on those), most AAA third party games, probably aren't going to be running in 4k. In the end, price will probably be more important than that marketing point anyway, so this should allow them to come down to $399.
For me, this means I won't have to upgrade my PC again any time soon after upgrading my GPU last year. If the CPUs of these boxes keep being relatively week, my PC will keep being more powerful.
I do wonder if MS will keep suggesting "native 4k" at this point. I'm sure they can tailor first party titles to 4k at this point (Though I'm all but sure they'll use variable resolution even on those), most AAA third party games, probably aren't going to be running in 4k. In the end, price will probably be more important than that marketing point anyway, so this should allow them to come down to $399.
AmuroChan
Member
All of Microsoft's 1st party titles already scale on PC with different CPU configurations. So I don't see why going with a better CPU in Scorpio will make development that much more difficult.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Well they can always bundle a game in the bundle when Scorpio launch, like FIFA in europe.
Wishmaster92
Member
The floodgates have opened
This sounds like the NEO thread all over again.
LordOfChaos
Member
So Jaguar or at best Puma seems about 90% sure at this point, eh?
Interpolated work for hoping to achieve 60fps probably means the CPU is only a modest upclock, just like the Pro.
Interpolated work for hoping to achieve 60fps probably means the CPU is only a modest upclock, just like the Pro.
Do you think we could potentially see Puma at 2.5ghz at least?
If it is truly a jaguar cpu that is disappointing. I am not an expert in terms of cpu stuff at all, so maybe someone like Durante could comment on this, but if I remember correctly there was jaguar cpus and then puma cpus, which were sort of a beefier jaguar. If this is correct, why haven't they at least upgraded cpus to puma rather than sticking with jaguar?
Risk Breaker
Member
So basically a PS4 Pro+, still using checkerboarding and same CPU. Not surprising I think.
However, this:
... framerate upscaling? Kinda sounds like a TV's smooth motion
And the funny part is if this worked here it would work on PS4 as well, but nobody has done anything like this, so I dunno.
However, this:
... framerate upscaling? Kinda sounds like a TV's smooth motion
And the funny part is if this worked here it would work on PS4 as well, but nobody has done anything like this, so I dunno.But without Sony's first parties. It's going to tuff sale with better 4k vs God of war.
Personally I think checkerboard rendering is better than native 4K. Both methods in practice look the same and to invest a large degree of compute resources into a comparatively smaller benefit is unwise.
There not gonna shove in a Vega a few months later. The hardware roadmap is set in stone for stuff like this. The changes and boosts come from small optimizations, like how the Pro gives a couple extra hundred megs of memory compared to the PS4, etc.
I'm actually kinda glad that MS is basically doing a slight bump from PS4 Pro if only to keep the price down. The idea of a $499 console is just too insane to justify at this point. This will at least keep it at $399.
Yup, that was a bad implementation that I don't ever want to see again.
ethomaz
Banned
I think the SDK will do that smooth without need a lot of dev intervention (of course there will be always points where dev will need to rework).
Black Mantis
Member
Launch period first party games at that as well.
Black Knight
Member
If it has a better CPU than the Jag, I would probably pick one up to play exclusives (what little it will have) and some multiplats on. Surely it will also play UHD blu-ray, filling that current void in my life with ps4 pro.
RichiRamjag
Member
People worked themselves up into thinking it was more than that.
DagnastyEp
Member
Really the biggest new info is specific mention of DCC, L2 cache increase, and lack of ESRAM. That much we can consider confirmed.
Also mention of checkerboard/spare rendering and half-resolution rendering. While these rendering techniques are not new, I think many were wondering if we'd see them implemented in games on Scorpio (vs straight up 1440p, 1800p, or 2160p).
For a whitepaper of this nature, I'm surprised there wasn't' even a mention of increased total RAM. While it's been heavily speculated that Scorpio will have at least 12 GB of RAM, the only mention of RAM in this whitepaper (at least which has been revealed by DF) is in regards to bandwidth. I would've thought they'd want to promote additional capacity for high res textures or something.
In reality the information we have regarding the CPU is no different than before. 8 CPU cores. While the note in the whitepaper seems like a hint towards jaguar, we still don't have enough information for confirmation.
Also, it should be noted that while this article from DF is dated from today, the origin of the whitepaper is from July 2016, 6 months ago.
Also mention of checkerboard/spare rendering and half-resolution rendering. While these rendering techniques are not new, I think many were wondering if we'd see them implemented in games on Scorpio (vs straight up 1440p, 1800p, or 2160p).
For a whitepaper of this nature, I'm surprised there wasn't' even a mention of increased total RAM. While it's been heavily speculated that Scorpio will have at least 12 GB of RAM, the only mention of RAM in this whitepaper (at least which has been revealed by DF) is in regards to bandwidth. I would've thought they'd want to promote additional capacity for high res textures or something.
In reality the information we have regarding the CPU is no different than before. 8 CPU cores. While the note in the whitepaper seems like a hint towards jaguar, we still don't have enough information for confirmation.
Also, it should be noted that while this article from DF is dated from today, the origin of the whitepaper is from July 2016, 6 months ago.
Last_colossi
Member
Which if true would translate to 30fps again for most games and just a resolution bump like the PS4 Pro...
Gudji
Member
Been telling this to people for months (not here on GAF but other forums). It's not a new console generation even if most people would like that, since it would be a new start for Microsoft. Kind of what they did from the original Xbox to X360.
Yep, that's what some of us are saying since some months ago.
I can see Scorpio being 2k where Pro is checkerboard 4K or Scorpio using variable resolution more often instead of fixed checkerboard.
But people shouldn't expect big graphical differences resolution aside.
hanspampel
Banned
there is basically nothing new in this article!?
esram gone was always a given
more L2 cache also with newer radeon GPU technology
this is only interesting for render techniques and stuff like that. well it's a white paper for developer, so ofc they talk about that suff mostly
and the whitepaper is from last year e3
So basically a PS4 Pro+, still using checkerboarding and same CPU. Not surprising I think.
However, this:
... framerate upscaling? Kinda sounds like a TV's smooth motion
I have no idea how something like this could work, but I would assume in theory it could look better than motion interpolation on TVs since it would be interpolating animation and then rendering a new image to go with the interpolated animation, rather than just interpolating a new image from existing images.
I guess the real question would be what the performance cost of something like this would be and what kind of artifacts would be present.
They don't "offend" me, they're just childish and low effort console warrior shitposts.
It's not even as powerful as an XB1. It seems like a small step up from Wii U.
I don't really know what people were expecting from Scorpio. If it was all that more powerful it might as well be a new console generation.
And Scorpio exclusives really underline that point. They're going to fracture their install base when it's already almost half of PS4's and make games in service of the more niche luxury console owners?
Yup yup. They'll look pretty nice on a 4K screen IQ wise. Just like Watch Dogs 2 PC @ 4K which also uses checkerboard rendering to achieve 4K.
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