Cerny, Yoshida, Boyes all seem to very much like the product they are selling. Tretton also seems very genuine despite not looking like the gaming type. House, Spencer, Mattrick, Iwata, Reggie all seem like they're there to bullshit their way through a presentation.
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Edge #256: Why PS4 is your next console (Shots fired, post-DRM 180)
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
Cerny, Yoshida, Boyes all seem to very much like the product they are selling. Tretton also seems very genuine despite not looking like the gaming type. House, Spencer, Mattrick, Iwata, Reggie all seem like they're there to bullshit their way through a presentation.
Iwata looks like he's bullshitting? Hasn't he worked at Nintendo for basically his entire career?
This eulogising of Sony's executives is getting a bit ridonkulous.
I agree, You can tell the suits from those who actually care. That presentation that Adam Boyes did with the 9 indies on stage was imo the best moment of E3 2013, I don't think most even realised how big a moment like that really was.
Significant number of who? Statham and yourself? Outside of GAF there is still hate for the console and what they did even after the 180.
WrenchNinja
Member
Well hes certainly actually bullshitting about the region lock, recently.
You must be exhausted by now since the unveiling...
Reality is that their cover IS justified. I'm not sure how you can still put up the good fight when everything is out there for everyone to see. People, here, are still pissed they tried to pull this in the first place, and the tin foil hat people who years ago said MS was a plague to this industry were vindicated when they tried to pull off this massive anti-consumer act. It just backfired on them because they don't have the clout in the gaming segment like they do in the PC world's specific segments like OS and WP. They're still forcing bullshit peripherals that are widely seen as unneeded by the hardcore, in which is jacking up the price, $100, which is a substantial chunk of change.
Worst part is, unlike Sony with the PS3, they can't even come close to justifying why it should cost more, and to pile the dirt on top of that coffin, it's LESS powerful.
MS really, really messed up here. To epic proportions in which we may look back after this gen and say it maybe the most significant "3rd console curse" example to date.
disastermouse
Banned
Genuine question:
Will PSEye uptake really be that low this gen? I ask this because 3rd party titles will be integrating Kinect. Since a lot of the tech will be there for Kinect, would it not be really easy to include Playstation Eye compatibility on the PS4 version? If both consoles have similar cameras as part of the platform and ONE has it guaranteed, I'm not sure that it wouldn't be easy to cross-port Kinect features to PSEye - and it gets devs out of thinking about button-mapping for Vita, probably just going with whatever standard button mapping is included on the Sony side.
Or are Kinect and PSEye really that different? I'm not talking about the really deep stuff that Kinect does - obviously purely Kinect games probably can't cross over as well, but I'm talking about spoken in-game commands and whatnot.
Will PSEye uptake really be that low this gen? I ask this because 3rd party titles will be integrating Kinect. Since a lot of the tech will be there for Kinect, would it not be really easy to include Playstation Eye compatibility on the PS4 version? If both consoles have similar cameras as part of the platform and ONE has it guaranteed, I'm not sure that it wouldn't be easy to cross-port Kinect features to PSEye - and it gets devs out of thinking about button-mapping for Vita, probably just going with whatever standard button mapping is included on the Sony side.
Or are Kinect and PSEye really that different? I'm not talking about the really deep stuff that Kinect does - obviously purely Kinect games probably can't cross over as well, but I'm talking about spoken in-game commands and whatnot.
That doesn't mean he makes a convincing impression on stage. The Nintendo Direct's have him standing still, arms next to his body talking like he has never talked in public before. Not even people presenting PowerPoints are that wooden. He actually used to be a lot more interesting on stage.
I think if devs want to and it doesn't eat much into the budget they can incorporate eye options in their games but still keep traditional controls. If you have the eye then fine turn it on and play the way you like. You don't want motion then hey you can press a button and do this to.
None of which points to his sincerity. There's a reason con artists are a thing.
disastermouse
Banned
This is the way I see it too, because Sony lost most of the people it was going to lose to MS in the last generation.
Look at Don Mattrick. He has been in video games since the start of the 80s like Iwata. Does he seem genuine? It is not because you're in the gaming industry and you want to be sincere, that you look like it on stage. The problem is, for the people watching, if you act one way and talk another; you look like you're bullshitting. Con artists are so good at their thing because they actually look like they're sincere. If a con artist had the same body language as Iwata, he wouldn't get a dime.
House's place is in the first sentence.
That's precisely my point though: con artists succeed because looking sincere and being sincere are two completely different things. I think it's fair to say, based on the fact that Iwata has worked at Nintendo/HAL his entire career, that is he is every bit as sincere as is Mark Cerny. Jack Tretton just seems like a suit to me, no idea why you would think he was more genuine than Iwata.
The MS executives come across as neither sincere nor good at presenting.
Honestly, he seems very much like the suit that is there to give the presentation the necessary weight. He is the straight man to Tretton's/Boyes/Cerny's funny man in joke terms.
He might be sincere, I don't care, he doesn't look it anymore. Him being at Nintendo for thirty years isn't important if I can't feel his passion when he is presenting. He might be a good, sincere leader, but he doesn't come across like it in his presentations.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
You do realise that Andrew House has been with SCE since PlayStation was a skunkworks project in lab in Japan and was personally chosen by Kaz to take over as President and CEO of SCE. Andy is one of the founders of PlayStation and a lot of the original western marketing and promotion schemes are his brainchild. I think the "you are not e" campaign is his, at least.
AppleSmack
Banned
So how soon until we can buy this instore? I'm hyped.
Holy crap REMEMBER CITADEL is putting some overtime in..
Saturn DID justify the price point. $399 got you a current arcade port (which with the then current Sega arcade output was NOTHING to snicker at), two controllers, and 512Kb battery backed up ram. Meanwhile for $299 you got a PSX and controller. You still needed a game ($50), a 2nd controller ($30), and a memory card ($20). Look at that. $399. The problem was wonderful consumers went to the store and saw $299<$399 and that was enough for them.
The only valid point you have is the launch lineup. So the question is, is that enough to stop MS from repeating Sega's history. And that is precisely the question Edge is asking.
I'll guess you meant 32x not Saturn. And whe both the 32x and Sega CD were flops, neither really led a bad taste in the public' mouth. The Genesis was still wildly successful up to the release of the Saturn. Not as big as SNES, but that had more to do with Squaresoft than it did 32x or CD.
Are you being serious here? MS had to release two week's worth of FAQs and interviews just to try and clear stuff up, only to have to then do another two weeks of interviews just to clear up the 180, and again the majority sentiment seems to be "what's stopping them from putting it back in?" A good portion of their predicament right now is directly from confusion!!
One word. eSRAM. Two if you want to include Kinect which no one yet has found a compelling core gaming use for yet. Neither a deal breaker, but neither elegant to implement either.
MS went out of their way for retail partners? "We are going to lock down physical copies except by some stores that we approve can do trades". Unless you were one I those touched stores I'm not guessing retailers were particularly thrilled with MS. Suggesting otherwise is being very optimistic.
Ok. I get it. You actually weren't around for the launch. Now it's making a bit more sense.
Saturn DID justify the price point. $399 got you a current arcade port (which with the then current Sega arcade output was NOTHING to snicker at), two controllers, and 512Kb battery backed up ram. Meanwhile for $299 you got a PSX and controller. You still needed a game ($50), a 2nd controller ($30), and a memory card ($20). Look at that. $399. The problem was wonderful consumers went to the store and saw $299<$399 and that was enough for them.
The only valid point you have is the launch lineup. So the question is, is that enough to stop MS from repeating Sega's history. And that is precisely the question Edge is asking.
Well, you do have a point. But whenever he's talking I get the feeling that he genuinely love the PlayStation brand and what he's doing. Like when announcing the PS4 price for example.
Your original point was that Iwata seems like he's bullshitting his way through presentations à la Mattrick. I said that, given his long tenure at Nintendo, he's probably not bullshitting. But Tretton comes across to me, as a suit, and hence feels like he generally is bullshitting.
The fact that Iwata is bad at presenting and Tretton is good at it seems irrelevant to me, because as I said, con artists rely on seeming genuine when they're actually bullshitting. I'm sure that if you gave Tretton the task of presenting the Xbone he'd do a much better job selling it than MS actually did. Flogging a product well is no indicator of not bullshitting. In fact, when you're doing it well, it's probably 90% bullshit.
I know, he has also done an excellent job as head of SCE Europe. A lot of the Sony execs have been there since SCE opened up. Hirai, Tretton too.
Tretton has been at Sony since SCE opened up. By your own reasoning Tretton should be as sincere as Iwata. If you don't look sincere and you look like you're bullshitting, you look like you're bullshitting which is the message you're sending out. He might be sincere, but I don't get that impression from his presentations which is quite important because as a viewer I don't know him personally. It also make the product he is selling looking weaker. If Iwata and Reggie looked like they believed more in their system, maybe we would believe it too. They look like they're making up stuff on the fly to sell it.
The articles pretty clearly elaborate on the front cover's sentiment. They do stick to their guns.
To go through their reasoning and some of the more cutting comments:
- PS4 focusses on players, that it is cheaper is 'merely one of its various advantages'
- Success isn't merely about price, but unfortunately for Microsoft PS4 is more powerful, and more developer friendly and has far better brand perception
- Microsoft's brand perception after the DRM reversal may no longer be 'down the toilet' but is still 'dangling somewhere around the rim'.
- Sony is willing to let indies self publish and release on PC and that, along with Sony's 17-strong WWS, leads Edge to believe that 'leaves little doubt as to which of the platform holders will offer the broadest range of games, at least early on'.
- Edge believes Microsoft has 'alienated the most vibrant development community in the modern era' and that their approach to indies is akin to them not courting EA or Epic last generation.
- Edge thinks their policies may see hundreds of game losses to PS4 over time
- After weeks of mixed messages Microsoft is 'a difficult company to trust'.
- Xbox One is the latest in a line of Microsoft experiments that consumers have rejected for similar reasons - a line that arrived too late with features that were too early for the market. Microsoft 'has constantly misjudged consumers' expectations', their new box 'equally confused'.
- Microsoft has 16 exclusive titles but are "trapped in the shadows of a mythical magic box that 'solves a hundred problems you never cared about solving in the first place".
- "In turning things around, Microsoft faces the kind of challenge that once drove the mighty Sega out of the hardware business"
To go through their reasoning and some of the more cutting comments:
- PS4 focusses on players, that it is cheaper is 'merely one of its various advantages'
- Success isn't merely about price, but unfortunately for Microsoft PS4 is more powerful, and more developer friendly and has far better brand perception
- Microsoft's brand perception after the DRM reversal may no longer be 'down the toilet' but is still 'dangling somewhere around the rim'.
- Sony is willing to let indies self publish and release on PC and that, along with Sony's 17-strong WWS, leads Edge to believe that 'leaves little doubt as to which of the platform holders will offer the broadest range of games, at least early on'.
- Edge believes Microsoft has 'alienated the most vibrant development community in the modern era' and that their approach to indies is akin to them not courting EA or Epic last generation.
- Edge thinks their policies may see hundreds of game losses to PS4 over time
- After weeks of mixed messages Microsoft is 'a difficult company to trust'.
- Xbox One is the latest in a line of Microsoft experiments that consumers have rejected for similar reasons - a line that arrived too late with features that were too early for the market. Microsoft 'has constantly misjudged consumers' expectations', their new box 'equally confused'.
- Microsoft has 16 exclusive titles but are "trapped in the shadows of a mythical magic box that 'solves a hundred problems you never cared about solving in the first place".
- "In turning things around, Microsoft faces the kind of challenge that once drove the mighty Sega out of the hardware business"
lol
If anything I've seen a lot of die-hard supporters that were gung-ho about DRM and how they didn't have a shit, y'all are peasants .. those guys are now upset. I wonder how FordGt or his mates feel now?
Wait, is this a valid criticism? Seems to me that the last think you can say about MS is that they're not willing to let their 'exclusive' games on PC. Actually it's become something of a running joke even though it's probably one of their few genuinely pro-consumer policies.
The article is talking about self publishing indies. Says something like 140 indie games reportedly in development of which at least 100 are expected on PS4 within the first year.
Meanwhile all MS had to do was say "you can self publish with us also" and instead they h gave indies the middle finger yet again with "Windows Store will be available on the WinRT VM of XBONE."
Edge says that in order for an indie to get on Xbox One you need an approved pub and guaranteed (timed or otherwise) exclusivity to the platform, while Sony will let you release simultaneously or even earlier on PC (and self-publish, obviously).
Uno Venova
Banned
Ok that got me.
to address people saying "but but but Sony have probably looked at used game DRM too"
Yeah you are right. and should we be suprised? I say no. because this is precisely what R&D is for there is no doubt in my mind that Sony at some point have looked into used game DRM heck, we have the patients to prove it! The important part is that they did the research to discover that they don't have a solution that will work within the current market, and their official statement reflects that.
This at the end of the day, is all that matters.
Yeah you are right. and should we be suprised? I say no. because this is precisely what R&D is for there is no doubt in my mind that Sony at some point have looked into used game DRM heck, we have the patients to prove it! The important part is that they did the research to discover that they don't have a solution that will work within the current market, and their official statement reflects that.
This at the end of the day, is all that matters.
Ah, got it. Thanks. Yeah Microsoft really need to support indies better, no real idea why they're doing no self-publishing. RIP that their indie policy (platform exclusivity) is literally the OPPOSITE of their regular attitude toward exclusives in the worst possible way though.
Not sure about that second part. Everything I know is that it's the same as it currently is. You either need a pub, or you need MS Studios to publish it.. Oh maybe that's what they mean.. If MS Studios publishes it there needs to be an exclusivity agreement.
there's so much irony in this post lol
Touché. I have 15 minutes til festivities start and I'm bored. But at least I'm not revising history.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Well, I've seen otherwise
My jaw dropped.
Maybe I'm just naive and cynical. But I seriously thought that fanboys would jump back in without question.
!My jaw dropped.
Maybe I'm just naive and cynical. But I seriously thought that fanboys would jump back in without question.
... what did you think would happen after that disaster? Also in the end brand loyalty from one gen to the other really doesnt exist. (to the public at large i mean)
ShogunDarius
Member
Well, I've seen otherwise
that's surprising, a few people I know decided to get it after the DRM reversal at some point, not me though. Were there any other polls done elsewhere?
KaptinKeezey
Banned
LOL. Love it. He just has one of those faces that make you want to hit things ..... preferably things that look like his face.
I think Yoshida comes across as the real deal actually. For the head of Sony Worldwide Studios, I've heard him even talk up Ninty a few times (he's got 2 WiiU's for instance). The man's a gamer and pretty approachable as far as execs go.
Truer statements have never been said. There is an advantage, but I would hardly call it a major one. One only has to look at the third console curse. While its funny even if not realistic, it does point out that enough missteps and people will jump ship to something else.
My jaw dropped.
Maybe I'm just naive and cynical. But I seriously thought that fanboys would jump back in without question.
They will, they'll just talk tough on the internet. X1 will do fine.
Where though honestly? America is the only territory where I see them still selling decently even if it is $100 more than the PS4 just because of public perception. Anywhere else, this thing is going to bomb especially with the price disparity in Europe and MS's non existence in Asia until next year.
AppleSmack
Banned
I do not see Microsoft having the same success this gen that they did in the last one. They are no gaming powerhouse that can just absorb bad PR and sell. Even Sony crumbled under all the bad PR and the PS2 outsold Xbox more than 7 to 1 in the previous gen. The 360 didnt even manage to outsell the PS3 despite Sony's horrible start. The tables have really turned on the company right now and they are following in 2006 Sony footsteps pretty closely while Sony has clearly learned and is playing all the right cards. If Microsoft isn't worried right now, they are even more stupid than I think they are. The evidence points that they are very worried though and it shows through all these desperate policy changes.
I honestly think MS would be fine with a great start in NA and no where else. They'd have time to catch up. Good word of mouth will help too (assuming they get it)
George Claw M.D.
Member
Exactly. And to take this further, there are also people saying, "As soon as Sony can get away with it, they're going to implement DRM, too!" Well the only way Sony can get away with it, is if they can implement a DRM system that the general public is actually okay with. And at that point, it's no longer a problem. Microsoft's problem was trying to force a type of DRM that most of their target audience don't want or(particularly in the case of those without Internet access) are simply not ready for.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
No, only a few people say that, people who have a vested interest in making Sony look as bad as Microsoft.
This kind of goes against what happened earlier this gen with RROD. That was everywhere; even had a bit about it on SNL -- and all of this happened POST launch when the system was out on shelves. Yet the system still sold well due to its content.
All of this is happening months before the systems are available. When you add in future price drops, future exclusives, system features, future OS updates, etc., anything can/will happen.
Word of mouth from early buyers will shape things for ones who buy in 2014+ -- for both consoles.
All good points imo.
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