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EDGE: Virtual Reality on PS4 and Xbone the real next-gen?
- Thread starter Bundy
- Start date
Of course you could do VR on consoles. And of course it wouldn't be as good as on a high-end PC, and it wouldn't match the graphical fidelity (in terms of effects and asset detail) of traditional TV games on the same systems. And of course VR is the future. When, not if.
Actually, to get 1:1 pixel mapping everywhere and use the full FoV after the Oculus view transformation you need to render at ~30% higher resolution. You really want to render at 200% physical resolution though, since all IQ artifacts (flickering, aliasing, you name it) are much worse in VR, and the only real way to get rid of them is adding more samples.
I seem to recall one of the Oculus guys early on talking about how much better OLED is for VR displays due to the faster response times than LED... yeah, I think Sony is very nicely positioned to do something awesome. Fingers crossed they don't screw it up.
Barkley's Justice
Member
I think so. Although I wish they would just use/incorporate Oculus Rift rather than spreading themselves thin on some proprietary, first-party format.
I understand your thinking, have you actually tried a Oculus dev kit? if not you should give it a go just to get a feel,,,
for me no matter how 'good' a game is, I never really feel that attached to a story, or that truly ''immersed'' in a game, I feel like I am controlling a little toy on a screen, so unless a game is really fantastic I feel kind of detatched from it. I hear people talking about being sucked into a story and feeling for characters, but I just cant get with that playing on a Tv from 10 feet away where the ''experience'' only fills 10% of my visual range
Maybe its a personal thing, but for me to actually feel like I was in a game world, that would be an experience that I have never had before,,, to be in a landscape or setting that I normally would never be able to go to or experience, is so exciting to me, I will never actually go to space, or fly a spaceship, or be in a ancient world setting,,, Vr is the closest I will ever get to this
It sounds cheesy but imagine a really cool particular lazer effect shooting past your face, and seeing it as if it were really there,, with surround sound..... it makes me feel like a kid again,
to me this is the what a ''next gen'' experience should be like rather than just a hike in graphic fidelity
Its like the first step towards a holodeck haha
Ah, thanks for the education. Assuming a similar 'fisheye' approach anyway... I don't know if there's any other ways to get or simulate a wide fov.
googleplex
Member
The Only way for VR to truly take off is for it to have mass market appeal. And that going to take one of the console manufacturers to really embrace VR in a real way.
Indeed. VR will start coming into its own on the next-next gen consoles, with some G-Sync equivalent to remove the locked 60FPS requirements.
And it will likely still suck because those consoles likely won't be powerful enough to do stereoscopic 1440p, much less 4K.
There's going to be drawbacks to every VR set put out on the market for years to come. We're a ways off a perfect implementation.
But yes, it's fairly important the first entrants reach a certain minimum quality. I think that's within either Sony or MS's capability though if they're taking this seriously.
I think this is 100% true,,,, so many people have not even heard of Oculus or modern day VR and see it as some kind of 90's throwback,,,
Sony are going to do it justice. I think even if we initially dont see the support from big developers the indie crowd on PS4 will make some amazing things that will nudge it closer to AAA
Imagine Titanfall 2 ps4 VR bundled
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
I read this earlier today and while overall it was a decent article, I took issue with:
-the rumor for Sony's vr headset isn't that it's going to be like Google glass; that's the rumor for the MS headset. AFAIK the Sony headset is going to be closer to an Oculus.
-the same old assumption that the SDK for these are going to be completely proprietary. If devs are saying how easy it is to develop for PS4 and that it's just like a PC dev environment, then who's to say it won't be the same for the headset? What if they make it use the same code an Oculus set would?
We know too little to make broad assumptions.
-the rumor for Sony's vr headset isn't that it's going to be like Google glass; that's the rumor for the MS headset. AFAIK the Sony headset is going to be closer to an Oculus.
-the same old assumption that the SDK for these are going to be completely proprietary. If devs are saying how easy it is to develop for PS4 and that it's just like a PC dev environment, then who's to say it won't be the same for the headset? What if they make it use the same code an Oculus set would?
We know too little to make broad assumptions.
I'd be curious for you to define 'well'.
Obviously VR is going to get better and better as rendering as tech improves. But where can we start this journey? Where's good enough?
I mean most people seem to highlight Valkyrie as a sort of killer VR experience. But on the rendering side it's not doing anything that would seem to be out of the reach of consoles at the required res/framerate. That's a lay observation, I'm open to correction. But it seems to me that the defining quality of VR is in the way it places you in a world as much as the pure rendering quality that is applied.
tldr: i'm pretty confident the consoles can host very good and worthwhile VR experiences. Unlike 3D it sounds like it's also going to emerge early in the cycle rather than at the tail end - which means it should benefit from years of maturing techniques and improving software.
Totally agree. VR for the consoles is a hugely important and hype-worthy ambition to take hold of.
But the complaints about the hardware are real concerns. Its not that they wont be capable of it, but it will have to come at a fairly substantial compromise, I imagine. That hopefully wont be too big of a hinderance to its popularity, but might be off-putting to some, who aren't going to be tech-savvy enough to understand and be appreciative of why it doesn't look as good as it does on their TV.
VR is going to benefit massively from advancements in hardware power and resolution and consoles wont be in a prime position to really show it off like it could.
I H8 Memes
Member
Because it's not 1920x1080. A system needs to be able to power 2 screens at 960x1080. If both consoles are looking into this then they only have plans for very low system intensive games to run on it because their systems cant handle a BF4 type of game running at those resolutions.
This is going to follow the traditional path of gaming technology. Created and grown on pc, then available to console gamers 5 or 6 years later.
TetraGenesis
Member
It doesn't. It splits a single 1080p image in two.
I think it's 2 x 960x1080p images, which is the same pixel output as 1080p.
But, as Durante said (and having used one myself), expect jaggies to be horrific. Way more distracting than on a TV displaying in native resolution.
googleplex
Member
If yours looking to stuff existing games into VR your already doing it wrong. The Great VR experiences will be made for VR in mind. Current PS3 level graphics in VR will blow minds, even with the reductions of resolution. You also don't need at much post processing effects in VR.
Micromegas
Member
Marketing gimmick. See 3D, etc.
Nope, sorry, but i've used one. When they get the resolution right, this will be amazing. Being able to look around in realtime by moving your head, and having it accurately represented, is a game changer.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Much like waggle, I just don't find myself getting excited for this tech.
googleplex
Member
Crashland is the single more impressive and immersive thing I've seen on the Oculus design and UI wise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2euG3HrU1c
The PS4 could easily pull this off at 60 FPS for each eye.
The Unfinished swan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2euG3HrU1c
The PS4 could easily pull this off at 60 FPS for each eye.
The Unfinished swan
Datura
Are already on PS3 and would be perfect for a VR device.
I can't define "good enough" of a starting point for VR, but I can define "Not good enough". Mid-1990's tech, when PCs were still rendering 3D in software and 60fps was simply unheard of, and LCD displays were 320x200 (at the high end) and super-laggy, was the last time there was a big VR push. You were lucky if a game had texture maps. Ruined the whole VR scene for over a decade.
I think we'll be okay this time if we're stuck with 1080p/60 with only somewhat better than PS3 visuals.
This is exactly why VR needs to happen on consoles. So people can stop thinking this ignorant nonsense.
If its only on PC, too many people will miss out.
crazygambit
Member
This. I'm extremely excited about seeing how this'll turn out. Hopefully they don't price themselves out of the market.
It's not even that - it'll end up ghettoised and carry the stigma of niche interest with it.
One of the big issues to overcome in reaching mainstream-ish audiences will be the isolating aspect of it - motion control stuff at least has the advantage of being social and party oriented, whereas by it's very nature VR is about immersing yourself. Consoles are the platform, but I think addressing the sociability of the basic idea of VR is something that needs attention.
That's a good point, but I think with VR the socialization will happen online, in the game's context, and not locally. Many people already do this with headsets while playing multiplayer games, so I think online will work. I'm not saying every VR game has to be multiplayer, in fact I hope most of them aren't, but there should probably be a big title or two that has a major online community aspect to it.
VindicatorZ
Member
Some of the pessimism regarding VR on consoles is ridiculous IMO.
VR is a game changer.
You could take PS3 level visuals at 60 FPS 1080p on VR and it would be incredible. Games like Bioshock, Mirrors Edge, Portal, Uncharted. Do not forget how good those games look.
Now Next gen is going to far surpass that. Games like Eve Valkyrie should run great. Imagine stuff like a next gen WipeOut in VR. It would be incredible.
Now the question is wether the absolute top tier graphical games can run at 1080p at 60 FPS on the consoles. Who knows, I'm sure some tech wizards will make it work. Engines like UE4 and CryEngine 3 will most likely run great on consoles. Even if visual compromises need to be made, the experience will still be great in VR. The compromises will be barely noticeable once your brain is tricked into the VR world. Even old games like Quake 2 are amazing in VR. It makes everything better.
There's going to be PLENTY of stuff that will run great in VR on consoles. People who are dismissing this are being silly.
VR is a game changer.
You could take PS3 level visuals at 60 FPS 1080p on VR and it would be incredible. Games like Bioshock, Mirrors Edge, Portal, Uncharted. Do not forget how good those games look.
Now Next gen is going to far surpass that. Games like Eve Valkyrie should run great. Imagine stuff like a next gen WipeOut in VR. It would be incredible.
Now the question is wether the absolute top tier graphical games can run at 1080p at 60 FPS on the consoles. Who knows, I'm sure some tech wizards will make it work. Engines like UE4 and CryEngine 3 will most likely run great on consoles. Even if visual compromises need to be made, the experience will still be great in VR. The compromises will be barely noticeable once your brain is tricked into the VR world. Even old games like Quake 2 are amazing in VR. It makes everything better.
There's going to be PLENTY of stuff that will run great in VR on consoles. People who are dismissing this are being silly.
So What should we expect from Sony's headset?
Not two 720p OLEDs like their HMZ Line? Maybe the same screen from their 6.4" Xperia phone...and similar Rift approach. To be honest I would hope Sony uses 2 phone like screens, like that other Rift competitor. InfinitEye.
1080p? (also maybe a more expensive 4k option >_< )
The reasons I believe this is because, they just released the HMZ T-3 and that has similar screens to the past two HMZs, YET is still about $1000. What ever tech they are using for that device, they can not afford to try to make tailored for gamers.
and with their new system, I'm sure they want to get away from the 720p tag line.
Not two 720p OLEDs like their HMZ Line? Maybe the same screen from their 6.4" Xperia phone...and similar Rift approach. To be honest I would hope Sony uses 2 phone like screens, like that other Rift competitor. InfinitEye.
1080p? (also maybe a more expensive 4k option >_< )
The reasons I believe this is because, they just released the HMZ T-3 and that has similar screens to the past two HMZs, YET is still about $1000. What ever tech they are using for that device, they can not afford to try to make tailored for gamers.
and with their new system, I'm sure they want to get away from the 720p tag line.
VERTIGO!
BloodMoney
Banned
720x1280=921600
1080x1920=2073600 (more than twice the pixels)
If the system can render 1080p, then it can render 720p twice.
aka, drop the resolution for the VR displays to 720 and it's feasible.
Wasn't Sony's vr headset shown to be more advanced than the oculus rift with one of their patents.
The patent had more technology involved in the headset so that the gpu didn't have to be as powerful as the PC equivalent( needed for oculus), but this would make it more expensive than the oculus to produce as well as buy.
The patent had more technology involved in the headset so that the gpu didn't have to be as powerful as the PC equivalent( needed for oculus), but this would make it more expensive than the oculus to produce as well as buy.
While I would love to have VR available to the next gen consoles, there are pro's and cons to introducing it on the consoles.
Consoles are the best platform for mainstream market appeal, this is true, and it might be a good way to introduce people to VR via current gen looking games running on the hardware.
There is a problem trough: once people get used to 1080p VR headsets on consoles, you wont find better devices available on the consoles for another 10 years (with better, I mean faster, higher resolution displays). So this creates a problem where you introduce people to basic VR experiences on consoles, but for them to find better content and better experiences, you shove people away from the console and towards PC where you can fulfill that need and I don't think it will be in the console makers best interest.
On consoles, the hardware doesnt have a need to evolve, so it doesn't allow the VR units to iterate as quickly as on the PC. By the time Sony and MS have their VR glasses ready, PC gamers can enjoy upgrades in the coming years that will push them closer to the ideal specs (8k oleds that operate at 1000hz with optics that push the FOV to 120 degrees. (info gathered from Michael Abrash). While the glasses on the consoles will stay at their initial beginnings (1080p @ 60fps).
price is a whole other can of worms
Consoles are the best platform for mainstream market appeal, this is true, and it might be a good way to introduce people to VR via current gen looking games running on the hardware.
There is a problem trough: once people get used to 1080p VR headsets on consoles, you wont find better devices available on the consoles for another 10 years (with better, I mean faster, higher resolution displays). So this creates a problem where you introduce people to basic VR experiences on consoles, but for them to find better content and better experiences, you shove people away from the console and towards PC where you can fulfill that need and I don't think it will be in the console makers best interest.
On consoles, the hardware doesnt have a need to evolve, so it doesn't allow the VR units to iterate as quickly as on the PC. By the time Sony and MS have their VR glasses ready, PC gamers can enjoy upgrades in the coming years that will push them closer to the ideal specs (8k oleds that operate at 1000hz with optics that push the FOV to 120 degrees. (info gathered from Michael Abrash). While the glasses on the consoles will stay at their initial beginnings (1080p @ 60fps).
price is a whole other can of worms
I'm surprised by some of the apathetic or disinterested replies in this thread. I guess I'm just overzealous, but VR is a pretty fantastic leap forward in the entertainment medium, in my opinion. I'm eagerly anticipating VR like the oculus rift entering consumer markets in the near future.
It's the ultimate conclusion of entertainment, for me. All boils down to how it's implemented, and how the device/medium interfaces with the player.
It's the ultimate conclusion of entertainment, for me. All boils down to how it's implemented, and how the device/medium interfaces with the player.
I want to know this FUTURE!!!
googleplex
Member
Price is my biggest fear for a PlayStation VR device.
So What should we expect from Sony's headset?
Not two 720p OLEDs like their HMZ Line? Maybe the same screen from their 6.4" Xperia phone...and similar Rift approach. To be honest I would hope Sony uses 2 phone like screens, like that other Rift competitor. InfinitEye.
1080p? (also maybe a more expensive 4k option >_< )
The reasons I believe this is because, they just released the HMZ T-3 and that has similar screens to the past two HMZs, YET is still about $1000. What ever tech they are using for that device, they can not afford to try to make tailored for gamers.
and with their new system, I'm sure they want to get away from the 720p tag line.
InfinitEye's FOV gives me such.a boner.
Yea visual effects can be toned down a bit to allow the games to run well enough for console VR. I just hope Sony or MS doesn't rush into this and fuck it all up for everyone. Oculus has the enthusiasm and passion for the technology and are hell bent on doing VR the right way. The rift is a really amazing device, one of the few pieces of tech I've ever used that has legitimately blown my mind. Like, almost to the point of being unsettling. It's so good that my body can feel phantom sensations sometimes (example - picking at Minecraft blocks floating above me, I swear I can almost feel the chipped pieces of dirt and rock showering down on me). It's that eye opening, and it goes waaayyyyy beyong gaming. And Oculus (specifically Palmer Luckey) are the ones that have brought this whole thing back to life. I can only hope that they get to market first and/or Sony/MS take it as seriously as them.
TetraGenesis
Member
I'm surprised by some of the apathetic or disinterested replies in this thread. I guess I'm just overzealous, but VR is a pretty fantastic leap forward in the entertainment medium, in my opinion. I'm eagerly anticipating VR like the oculus rift entering consumer markets in the near future.
It's the ultimate conclusion of entertainment, for me. All boils down to how it's implemented, and how the device/medium interfaces with the player.
.
Yep, The PS4 Eye Camera already delivers the AR experience for the PS4.
MutonCommander
Banned
Indeed. Consoles don't have the power to drive a truly satisfactory VR experience.
Fredrik
Member
It's still a gimmick, a niche market. It's not like everyone who likes video games have a strong desire to run around in an immersive first person world in every game. I know I don't.
Something that fundamentally improves the experience this much is just not a gimmick.
The crystal clear 3D effect created by each eye receiving it's own clean image and the sense of real life scale it conveys can be staggering, even through the screen door objects and the environment have an illusion of physicality and mass that is unlike anything you've experienced, guaranteed.
The glorious headtracking, giving you an entirely new and perfectly natural method of imput, frees up a ton of control possibilites. Even if you're still just playing with a controller. When you need to look in a certain direction you just LOOK IN A CERTAIN DIRECTION. I don't think people understand how incredibly natural and intuitive this is, as common sense as it sounds. And no matter how much you try to shake it and fool the tracker it doesn't skip a beat.
Even in 3rd person games you can use head tracking as camera control, it works perfectly and you still also get that sense of presence that brings the game world to life.
Even though it's a really raw product it's probably one of the coolest things ever invented. We can take games and game worlds that already exist, and through a little bit of post processing and a $300 device you can experience them like never before. In 2013, completely out of nowhere when VR seemed like it was still decades away.
But when some brand new games with real production values are made specifically for this technology, it will knock people's socks off. It raises up even existing video games into something more than just a game. It's almost more on the level of a thrill ride or theme park experience that you can fit in your backpack. It's crazy.