The Lone Courier
Member
No worries they'd probably find a a way around that.
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Failoverflow conference about ps4 jailbreak is today....
- Thread starter luca_29_bg
- Start date
No worries they'd probably find a a way around that.
Keihart
Member
But would that be able to sync-up ok to PSN? it would be kinda lame seeing ultra rare trophies percents being altered.
Yeah, that would suck, trophies aren't a be-all-end-all thing for me, but I do love the feeling of snagging a <2% trophy.
test_account
XP-39C²
The people who will do this are probably quite small in the big picture, so it probably wont change much.
Its kinda based on luck in the sense of which exploits that are available. Vita is more proprietary as far as i know, while PS4 is based on FreeBSD. If it wasnt for the BadIRET exploit in FreeBSD, maybe the PS4 wouldnt have been hacked by now. People have definitelly tried to hack the Vita at least.
toddhunter
Member
You don't need something like this to have multiplayer ruined by assholes. That happens out of the box.
Sure, but to be the ultimate console or Steam machine it'd definitely need Windows.
Sony teased them actually
Inbefore, they should try to get the PS2 emulator to run it, heh.
The reality is no matter what was the original intention with this, these kind of things always end up being used for piracy.
You implied that their motive is piracy. I strongly disagree.
They love hard/software and reverse engineering. Their motives seem to be more research and knowledge based.
PS4 piracy already exists anyways. If people want to pirate they will.
So far, all we really know is they've found a way to circumvent the current OS with what sounds like an overflow in the GPU, and have not shown anything related to CFW / using the original OS after the fact.
The reason the PS3 CFW scene happened was due to the nature of the hacks. We don't know the nature of the hacks (yet), and there's no reason to be alarmed about cheating in online games because of this jailbreak. Time will tell.
jellies_two
Member
They don't do it for intellectual curiosity they do it for their own ego. To be hailed by thousands of kids who smell a chance to play games for free, and/or to cheat. That's the majority.
Look at geohot he moved on to actually contribute something positive to the world.
Nobody can argue that because there is some kind of piracy already, or some kind of multiplayer assholery that it doesn't matter anymore: subverting the walled garden experience would make things 100x more unpleasant for the majority. And for what? So someone can add a mod to Witcher 3?
Nett nett it is almost totally a negative contribution, nothing to support or cheer. One of the pleasant features of multiplayer games is a level playing field. People complain about pay to win DLC, but approve of this? I think in the end it's the usual entitlement generation showing up: why can't I wall-hack or trophy hack, why can't I download and run a copy for free, I want it now!
Look at geohot he moved on to actually contribute something positive to the world.
Nobody can argue that because there is some kind of piracy already, or some kind of multiplayer assholery that it doesn't matter anymore: subverting the walled garden experience would make things 100x more unpleasant for the majority. And for what? So someone can add a mod to Witcher 3?
Nett nett it is almost totally a negative contribution, nothing to support or cheer. One of the pleasant features of multiplayer games is a level playing field. People complain about pay to win DLC, but approve of this? I think in the end it's the usual entitlement generation showing up: why can't I wall-hack or trophy hack, why can't I download and run a copy for free, I want it now!
TheSpoiler
Member
But none of this is leading to hacks like the ones you are outlining. There are clear cut differences between what you suggest and running linux.
I'd say it's the kneejerk generation showing up and assuming things before reading the actual topic.
jellies_two
Member
I am talking in general terms about the efforts to subvert the system to escape the code signing protections and fake or otherwise trick the OS to run code.
The only reason that the effort gets any publicity at all is because whatever it discovers or enables is a step down the path to ultimately getting to do the stuff a console maker doesn't want anyone to do, because it threatens the value proposition of the entire platform. They are not in the business of selling hardware but selling a total ecosystem. Security is part of that sale.
The only reason that the effort gets any publicity at all is because whatever it discovers or enables is a step down the path to ultimately getting to do the stuff a console maker doesn't want anyone to do, because it threatens the value proposition of the entire platform. They are not in the business of selling hardware but selling a total ecosystem. Security is part of that sale.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Probably a year from now people will run custom firmwares etc... didnt take that long after the PS3 hack unveiling.
TheSpoiler
Member
Wait, so are you angry at the people making these "hacks" devaluating the PS4 because of the possible nature of piracy? Or angry at Sony for allowing these possible problems to happen?
Since you are moving your whole point to the general terms and efforts, does that mean people here who want linux are, in part, advocating for piracy or enabling it?
Seems like you are trying to find a safe way of complaining about it.
They normally only hack stuff they are interested in. Time will tell.
inpHilltr8r
Member
It means the linux driver doesn't work with the PS4 hardware because there's a hardware operation that behaves differently to what the driver expects. It's not unusual for hardware to have these odd issues that just have to be worked around. Especially hardware that lives behind a driver, or is in a fixed platform.
I think the point he was making is if a firmware update got released in the wild and due to their overzealous security killed 100% of boxes it was applied to Sony would be on the hook for billions in repairs and seriously damage their image once people learned what happened. There's a reason aggressive e-fuse implementations are rare. A false positive as a result of a bug or error is just too big a risk.
Portugeezer
Member
From what I remember, people with hacked 360's would only (mostly?) get banned if they ran pirated software. You could hack your own 360 and run your own backups and they would be fine as it would be a unique ID.
I could be remembering incorrectly though.
No, heaps of ppl had their xbox live accounts banned also for cheating; both occurred, xbox live account banning and console ID bans. Have a look at any of the old forum posts at relevant forums
Because they can. It's fun.
Yep, getting a pc for 299 which plays Sony games and is able to run Linux and Retroarch. Show me a pc that does both for the same price.
finalflame
Gold Member
Because discovering and successfully exploiting vulnerabilities that let you break open a system is fun and a fundamental part of the infosec community. Arguably, this allows Sony and others to better secure their system better down the line. Systems are only exploitable due to poor security practices/overlooked aspects of security by the creators (see: 3DS only checking data before decryption, Nintendo leaking their two of their AES keys in firmwares, allowing you to figure out the constant in their hardware key scrambler, etc).
Anyways, every time someone finds and successfully exploits a vulnerability, you learn something new about software security. There's intrinsic value in this kind of stuff. Also, running things that weren't intended to run on proprietary hardware is fun.
You only got banned if you played a pirated game online. And 99% of the time they banned the console unless you were cheating, which results in a gamertag ban.
Marcan wrote on their blog about this.
https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2015/console-hacking-2015-liner-notes.html
Basically, what he's saying is that they will only work to give PS4 official Linux support, hardware acceleration and turn it into a "Steam Machine" able to run indie and even AAA games.
They are not releasing any exploits because that usually turns into piracy and they don't want to be responsible of, like they were with Wii and PS3.
But he says PS4 security is pretty bad and other people will publish exploits needed to install Linux.
https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2015/console-hacking-2015-liner-notes.html
Basically, what he's saying is that they will only work to give PS4 official Linux support, hardware acceleration and turn it into a "Steam Machine" able to run indie and even AAA games.
They are not releasing any exploits because that usually turns into piracy and they don't want to be responsible of, like they were with Wii and PS3.
But he says PS4 security is pretty bad and other people will publish exploits needed to install Linux.
RealityCheque
Banned
Dualboot with steam OS = greatest console of all time.
luca_29_bg
Member
like i said before, it's only a matter of time.
luca_29_bg
Member
"TL;DR: Were working on Linux kernel patches, and are looking to get them upstreamed. Were not releasing exploits - were certain other people will. Dont ask us. And if you want free games, go away."
Sciò,sciò! (in italian)
ahahahahaha
Sciò,sciò! (in italian)
ahahahahaha
Good guy, marcan. Hopefully this will stop the nonsense in this thread about piracy. I really hope for Linux on ps4 and look forward to exploits which enable it so one can take even more advantage of the hardware.
Collateral22
Member
Came across 2 guys level 800 last night on BO3, pointed me in the direction of a guy running a modded lobby shop on a site for $65. Related to this?
socksfelloff
Member
Let's not forget Geohot released his cfw without piracy support. I Believe it was less then A day later a modified version came out with it.
I'm pro jail breaking and unlocking. I hate how every thread on gaf with this topic dissolves into a piracy or cheating debate. Let's keep the pointless comments out of this.
Hopefully the doors get blown wide open. I'll gladly grab a second ps4.
No.
test_account
XP-39C²
I see. But would that be concidered broken though? Or maybe he just ment broken as in not compatible.
Thanks for this, an interesting read.
I agree that its cool that they're trying to avoid it, i am however curious on how it will work in practice. I wonder if someone will be able to release an exploit that will only allows for Linux to boot, and not leading to anyone else tinkering with such exploit. I guess thats the idea here. I cant really see it happening if someone releases a kernel exploit.
Piracy is a big part of it if things are blown wide open, so i wouldnt say that its pointless. Well, perhaps pointless in the sense that things wouldnt change regardless of whats being said, but i see no harm in people discussing it when its relevant.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Car analogy: because it's fun trying to turn a ford fiesta into a lambo.
family_guy
Member
Yet another system you can hack to run old games on. Seriously why go through this effort every console generation. Go buy a PC and don't worry about violating terms of service and getting your account banned.
Green Yoshi
Member
Can't you use the PS4 GPU for emulating, too?
GPUs can be used for any general purpose computation, but unless you're doing large amounts of calculations that can be done in parallel, then a CPU is your best bet. When it comes to emulation, due to timing/sync issues the amount of threads you can run will usually be limited to the amount of processors (CPU+GPU+sound) that the original console had (plus maybe one or two extra if someone figures out the odd thing that doesn't need to be precisely timed).
But yeah, in general, GPGPU isn't that useful for emulation.
Fake edit: I'm sure I've seen people talk about using GPGPU instead of using a graphics API (like OpenGL and DX). Due to the way console GPUs can't always be exactly emulated on a PC GPU, using GPGPU could allow for software style graphics emulation with some amount of GPU acceleration but I've never seen anyone do that. It wouldn't be faster than a fully hardware accelerated solution, just more accurate and it would benefit PC just as much as it would PS4.
Oh come on, the idea of having a single box under your TV that can run PS4 games and SteamOS games doesn't sound cool to you?
I've been for hacking other consoles in the past but I really don't see the appeal in these newer ones. They use standard parts for the most part, and aren't much more powerful than a similarly priced PC.
PS3/Xbox 360 were exciting, the hardware combo they were packing was above what you could get in a PC - even high end at the time of release. They didn't get fully hacked until much later though so I think that's part of what really held back a flourishing homebrew scene.
I just don't see the gain in working around all the inevitable limitations and restriction s (online access for instance) this will bring, just to run stuff on hardware that is pretty much an off the shelf PC.
PS3/Xbox 360 were exciting, the hardware combo they were packing was above what you could get in a PC - even high end at the time of release. They didn't get fully hacked until much later though so I think that's part of what really held back a flourishing homebrew scene.
I just don't see the gain in working around all the inevitable limitations and restriction s (online access for instance) this will bring, just to run stuff on hardware that is pretty much an off the shelf PC.
AcceptableGhost
Member
The fact that they are working on a driver to get 3D acceleration working with the PS4 GPU in a Linux environment makes this way more interesting. The PS4 as a fairly cheap little Linux gaming box sounds good (in addition to playing PS4 games), especially when it hits the like 200$ and under mark.
jeff_rigby
Banned
The PS4 is hardware wise a PC with standard APIs except for parts of the MediaCON=Southbridge=Aeolia (Marvell name).
Sony does not allow anyone except Japan programmers to touch Southbridge because that is the ARM Trustzone managed Southbridge TEE (Trusted Execution Environment) for DRM. Sony just sandboxes some of the code running in the APU and hash checks the APU's OS just after it is booted by Southbridge.
For those interested; Sony uses Mono (C# JIT compiler) calling webkit native libraries as a framework to support commercial APPS and Webkit as well as Mono are always loaded. OpenGL ES2 is the Graphics framework and it supports 2D and 3D graphics. Why mono instead of Javascript; because Mono is smaller,faster and easier for them to insure it has no vulnerabilities. This was a speculation of mine a few years ago that I got right.
The above are from recent dumps of the PS4 booting.
So Hacking the APU is no big deal as that is the open world part of the PS4 and since it must support most of the HTML5 calls to support Vidipath including W3C extensions, it is considered vulnerable to hacks which is the reason for Trustzone managed boots, hash checks of the OS and all DRM is behind the ARM Trustzone managed TEE. Given this the hack is to an already running PS4 and at reboot the hack never existed.
dragonelite
Member
Pretty much this, and the folks that probably did this are not breaking their back to
afford games at least not for long.
This is more about reputation and control over their own hardware.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
biglittleps
Member
Can't sony block this in new firmware update ? Also mostly new games require updated firmware to work. May be PS4 Slim revision expected this year can fix those security ssues and they might be stopping making original model, so will not harm them anymore even if there is real hacking for piracy which will take time before that Slim will be released.
Did they say anything about their Linux working on latest firmware and future firmware versions also ?
Did they say anything about their Linux working on latest firmware and future firmware versions also ?
Daffy Duck
Member
The main thing I got out of this was seeing the codename for PS4's APU mentioned again; Liverpool - It's been awhile since I heard that name.
That goes way back, well before PS4 was announced, At least mid 2012.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477540
Damn Scousers.
FTR I love Liverpool.