Think Zebra referring to Cidney
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Final Fantasy XV SPOILER THREAD
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
Uhhh, 8 chapters isn't that long? and ch9 is Altissia and its own zone filled with stuff.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Disagree on almost all points XIII is the biggest reason for me to generally have 0 confidence in square delivering a great FF again. That game was just so meh as a game in general but talking FF it was a truly terrible FF game. Lightning and Fang being good characters? A mighty low standard.
I'd barely qualify Sazh for being a good character(and I actually kind of liked him), I'm almost sure Sazh only looked good because everyone was so terrible.
Like I don't find XIII offensively bad and I still would rather erase that whole saga(almost a decade of nonsense barf).
Agree on the XV stuff. Hype is just not earned based on the last decade of FF + all we know.
Cautious optimism in my opinion is more appropriate.
Ah, derp. Was scratching my head there wondering if Cid being playable was something poeple wanted and I missed it hahaha.
We have confirmation that chapter 1-8 is open world(not really open world but very big maps). Spoiler said chapter 9-12 or 13 are hubs not as big but you can still explore. Last two or three chapters will be much more linear and potentially great set pieces.
QuantumZebra
Member
Apologies if you're joking (can't tell anymore, lol), but:
1. For a mechanic, that is an absolutely absurd outfit
2. Beyond that tame observation, is the very blatant sexualization of one of the few female characters you interact with during the game
Hell, the UK FFXV poll listed her as the biggest "wtf" I believe
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I guess its naïve of me to think that we will ever go back to non-linear (throughout) FFs again - ah well
AlexFlame116
Member
Nothing new eh?
Someone mentioned that its like 8 chapters before there is a shift in the storyline and that it still plays similarly.
Also FFXIII is a mess story and conceptually speaking. For a good 10 hours into the story every single character is insufferable. It takes a lot of time for the cast to start coming unto itself and even then its mediocre at best. The story itself is confusing and REQUIRES the use of the in game datalogs to understand what the fuck is going on. The worst case of telling and not showing in the entire franchise probably.
The combat system doesn't really do a good job at explaining how it works. The best thing about it, the fact that the encounters are tightly paced so you cant over level them is an active detriment to some people.
The production of it was a mess too. With people going on about a ton of assets that never got into the main game. FFXIII was the epitome of a sort of work culture in SE that almost brought down the company. The sort of culture Yoshida bemoaned about in the FFXIV conferences, where artist would spend an obscene amount of time on minutia that didnt add anything meaningful to the game.
QuantumZebra
Member
Gotcha - should've specified Cidney
BossDarkseid
Member
hosannainexcelsis
Member
When you refer to a Final Fantasy that is nonlinear throughout, which Final Fantasy game are you thinking of?
I mean...15 could turn out terribly, but still won't make 13 a good game.
With 13 it's pretty clear they had no good idea about the structure of the game until the Advent Children demo was released. Too bad that was in April 2009, when the game was released in December of the same year. And not event Paradigm Shift was in place in that demo.
XV has problems, but I doubt it's as big of a mess.
XV has problems, but I doubt it's as big of a mess.
I'd love to hear this because I'm drawing a blank. I thought it was the general consensus that each FF was linear as all hell with a few random set pieces outside the main trunk as tiny branches.
The closest thing to a non linear FF is WoR in FFVI and even then thats pretty linear all things considered.
The PS1 games especially are linear until you get the airship.
They just have the illusion of non linearity because of the overworld. Even then you're still being funneled forward. In FF7 with the buggy and tiny bronco you're still going forward even if you can branch off into side areas. It's not until the airship you can do everything. Hell you can't even go back into Midgar until damn near the end of the game.
...Sorry to get on your ass on this, but what do you mean 'should have specified Cidney'?
Cidney (or Cindy) and Cid are different characters. Cindy isn't 'a type of Cid'. Either you were referring to Cid, or you were referring to Cindy. This is kind of like saying "I hate Lightning" and then adding "Sorry, I should have specified Snow".
That being said, I find it a little curious you've pretty much already formed an opinion of the game before it's even out. Mind you, you're entitled to it, and considering everyone in this thread doesn't really mind getting spoiled on the game (for better or worse, whether riding the hype train wanting to find out the story as soon as possible or be vindicated over a negative opinion) I can see where you're coming from, but I think you should at least wait till there are comprehensive write-ups on the story, especially if you don't intend on playing the game, yourself.
Heck, there's scant little focus on Aranea or Gentiana in what's been leaked, even with a shot of Aranea in the party earlier on in the thread.
jimmypython
Member
The biggest problem I had with XIII was its corridor world design (not to mix with corridor level design, which we had already seen in FFX). I still like FFXIII for its battle system, music, characters, setting and FNC mytho.
FFXV tho.....I like the music.
SkylineRKR
Member
XIII was a polished turd.
XV at least looks like it offers some diversity. There is an actual world, NPC's and things to do. I'd be surprised if XV turns out to be worse than XIII, though I'm not too fond of what I played of XV as well (the 3 demos, though the last one was decent).
XV at least looks like it offers some diversity. There is an actual world, NPC's and things to do. I'd be surprised if XV turns out to be worse than XIII, though I'm not too fond of what I played of XV as well (the 3 demos, though the last one was decent).
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Yeah, there's a clear difference between the SNES/PS1 Final Fantasies and actual nonlinear "Do whatever" RPGs of the same period such as Romancing Saga and Legend of Mana.
Speaking of old nonlinear JRPGs, Metal Max is probably the king. Post Apocalypse world that you can roam freely, and it came out way before Fallout. Too bad the series is not localized. I have a feeling GAF would LOVE the series.
People turned off from 13 simply because many thought it just wasn't good. Outside the Lightning the characters are a let down. The battle system was decent, but the difficulty was forced by simply splitting up the party multiple times early on. The story was a drag because you had to read about most of it.
Again when the argument about why it's a good game is that "it's opens up and is better after 40 hours." that says a lot.
Probably playing Dota 2.
Even with the airships the games are still super linear. Like I said, you have a few set pieces that you can do while your doing the main story, but its not close to the bulk of the game.
Compared to open world games, whose main story is usually just a fraction of all the things you can do.
QuantumZebra
Member
FF7, FF6, FF8, 10, etc.. pretty much all of them let you explore as you wished throughout the game right up until the final "storm the castle" moment
Edit: cause I cant tell you how many times I went right up to the crater in FF7 and member berries showed up going "but remember the golden saucer" "chocobo racing Is so much fun"
My argument for XIII is that if you look past the linearity (which I wasn't a fan of) - the game itself is really good. The battle system is possible my favorite / on par with 7 and 10. The music is wonderful. Graphics are great. And like I said I liked half the cast a good bit. The story was pretty cool and the final boss was a trip.
So I guess the "opens up after X time" is extra
This is more important than that moba.
The fact of the matter is, those games(and FFX) as well were just better designed games in all ways than FF13. That's why people consider them better. Doesn't matter if we consider them linear or non linear.
Hahaha ok I sort of get it. Lets put it this way, if you think 7,8 and 10 are somehow not linear, then FFXV will be the most non linear final fantasy you've ever played.
Hell 10 doesn't even do a good job at masking it. Sure it does a better job than 13 of it, but until 13 released it was the most egregious of the examples till then.
I agree. Just because its linear doesn't mean its bad. Its just how FFs are. FFXIII is just bad even when taking it by itself in a vacuum. Its even worse when compared to other FFs.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
understoodthatreference.gif
the_sun_king
Member
X was just as linear as XIII. The only difference is there was side content and rest stops - I mean, towns - along the always forward moving path that the game funneled you down. I never got the feeling of "exploration" from it. Now the FF that did give me that feeling from time to time was XII.
FalsettoVibe
Member
Looking pretty cool
If you are just referring to the ability of returning to area you've been before (I don't think that's nonlinear, even a literal line has two direction), FFXV has that confirmed.
I think the term you may be looking for, aside from 'non-linear' is more specifically the ability to backtrack. In that as you progress, more and more of the world opens up, and except for specific locales (usually tied to set piece moments) you could always return.
This is why despite X and XIII maps largely being straight lines, X had a little more player agency in the sense that you could go back all the way to the start
and get rickrolled by Dark Valefor
A lot of that had to do with narrative. In X, you're playing essentially famous heroes on a pilgrimage. In XIII, you're playing fugitives on the run, which lends itself far less to the narrative ability to backtrack as it were. But I digress.
Prior to XIII there have been exceptions to that backtrack rule, and these were also largely for narrative purposes. FFVI's structure, for example, where past the halfway point you were chucked into a different (much more open) setting altogether and virtually everything prior was inaccessible.
Nothing big. I just don't think Luna dying after being underwhelming in Kingsglaive, and essentially being on the backburner for most of the game actually sends any message about a strong female character.
The story so far seems very straight forward and a lot of the last minute implementations leave me concerned(a day 1 patch for better combat and crudely cut and pasting kingsglaive movie cut-scenes into the game so the story actually makes sense, wtf?)
QuantumZebra
Member
Thank you! That kind of crystallizes my point on the old FFs and my favorites. Good point about XIII's open world ability being limited by the chase/being on the run aspect, too.
FF6 did a good job of turning the open world aspect on its head at the middle/end, lol.
If it does like in the old games then that's cool. I would hope for something like that.
I just had a hard enough time getting past the shockingly bland and homogenous cast, the straightforward, uninspired story (which is not normal for a mainline FF), the stark lack of female representation, and then hearing how they literally pull an FF7 in this game with Luna is just facepalm worthy.
Since you are playing the game, can you tell me about the stuff I posted one or two pages back regarding the game's difficulty? Can you change it mid-game or once you select it, you are stuck with it?
OK 3rd time I'm saying it Prompto seriously takes like the most pics of Gladio every time I see someone looking at stuff.
Oh the "me" was because I was watching the clip, sorry.
Oh the "me" was because I was watching the clip, sorry.
potatohead
Member
Disagree with all of that. That's the problem. It's not hyperbole, just complete disagreement.
The only thing I agree with actually is the music was good. Even great. Hamauzu was the best thing about FF XIII.
The lack of female characters is definitely unfortunate, it doesn't sound like Aranea and Iris stick very long as guest party members either. Right now I'm giving square benefit of the doubt, since they have done FF games with either direct female protagonist (All 13-games, even if Lightning Returns turned Lightning into a barbie doll) or indirect protagonists (Ashe is arguably the leading force of 12, even if the marketing says otherwise). There has even been a female-only party before (although it is X-2... a game which has it's own fair share of problems...). So I'm willing to see how they pull of an all-male party.
Cidney's design is completely undefendable though. Just awful pandering.
Cidney's design is completely undefendable though. Just awful pandering.
PshycoNinja
Member
Strange.
I don't paint everyone with a wide brush. I am sure there are some great people over in that forum. Not sure why I am a special snowflake.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I don't find the "Final Fantasy haven't had great story telling" point to be particularly compelling or necessarily true. Even if we accept that the story in the series has historically been poor, I don't want to accept mediocrity or the status quo. There's nothing wrong with asking for the team to aim higher, especially if story is being foisted into such a central role and with such high production values.
Nothing I've seen from the story makes me think it's bad. I don't know how it's going to play out but I'm usually easy to please. I've enjoyed the story of most of the FF games I've played for the most part. That's how I feel this one will be. The story itself seems simple and straightforward enough.
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