Support NeoGAF

[DocSeuss]

it's a lot easier to market 4k than it is to market a steady framerate. i feel like 1440p should be the aim if they're going to go for better graphics. naughty dog has it right



9% isn't that small of an amount

We should just start calling it SFR (steady frame rate) or LFR (locked frame rate) technology, which provides a "smooth and consistent feel," and "could potentially make you better when you need it most in a crucial multiplayer battle."

Make it a buzzword. Bam. MARKETING PRO.

 

[Fliesen]

I'm not blaming the PS4 Pro hardware, my post was about developers and their mentality when it comes to FPS/IQ. This thread isn't even about 60fps over 30fps, it's about going under 30fps.

but how are those pro games proving your hypothesis, though? It proves quite the opposite.

Watch Dogs 2 runs at a perfectly stable 30fps on the PS4.
I guess the other games do too?

If devs were all about "hurr durr bells and wistles, fuck stable frame rates", why does the OG PS4 version run fine, then? They clearly do care about a stable frame rate and are clearly not willing to sacrifice 30fps for eye candy.

it might just be because they were able to actually properly tweak IQ to match their frame rate target. Tweaking they didn't have the time for on the pro yet.

Especially Watch Dogs and Tomb Raider run fantastic on the OG console - so it's clearly about them not having been able to properly optimize and tweak the pro modes.

But even on the Pro, calling these games "sub 30 fps" is a ludicrous hyperbole. We're not talking about the Witcher 3 swamp here, or Ocarina of Time on the N64, we're talking about occasional dips on all but one of your examples.

 

[hateradio]

Wow that's a good idea, who ever made that should get paid for it.

Adding PC settings to consoles? I don't know if that's a great idea or not. Isn't the use of dynamic resolution supposed to do that on the fly.

 

[EmiPrime]

Come to think of it I actually have significantly more 60fps games now on PS4 than I did in my first 3 years of 360/PS3 ownership. The Pro is only going to widen that gap.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Lots of touchy folks on the subject. I wish I could just use base ps4 mode for some of them if I wanted.

 

[SJRB]

OP, got got any, you know.. statistics or something? anything other than "I read somewhere" and "there's plenty more"?

 

[Afrikan]

I think I dodge that bullet .... PS4pro is starting to stink.

no, I think that's just the usual bashing of Sony's launch consoles and accessories.... from shills, to fanboi's to folks who don't want to spend the money for something that others are enjoying.

smells about the same each launch.

 

[belvedere]

What are the chances of gaf getting an upvote system? The amount of fud and general misinformation allowed recently is mind boggling.

 

[MistBreeze]

I have an OG ps4 first model 2013

I just received my PS4 Pro today, tried Battlefield 1 multiplayer and instantly I felt the smoother almost locked 60 fps gameplay and the cleaner image.

In my openion a pro purchase is justified for this alone,

Add tomb raider, FFxv and Titanfall 2 and you have a winner.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

I think the op never took statistics because this isn't how it works....

 

[Fbh]

Adding PC settings to consoles? I don't know if that's a great idea or not. Isn't the use of dynamic resolution supposed to do that on the fly.

Mabye not PC settings but it's nice seeing more games offering verious pre sets on consoles.

Tomb Raider has a mode with Better IQ and another one with better framerate. Same for Ni Oh (that one even offers the option on the OG Ps4, is said to have 2 extra graphical modes on the pro)

 

[leng jai]

My thread title is admittedly hyperbolic, "some" would more appropriate instead of "a lot of". Too bad you can't edit titles though.

 

[Fliesen]

I have an OG ps4 first model 2013

I just received my PS4 Pro today, tried Battlefield 1 multiplayer and instantly I felt the smoother almost locked 60 fps gameplay and the cleaner image.

In my openion a pro purchase is justified for this alone,

Add tomb raider, FFxv and Titanfall 2 and you have a winner.

but, but ... but didn't you read the OP? - Tomb Raider is officially a game running at "sub 30 fps"...

 

[adamsapple]

We had heaps of games in the previous generations that were sub 30fps, it's not like it's a sudden development.

I'd still call that reaching. 4 out of the 41 supported pro games at launch, at least one of them is getting fixed via the next firmware update and I would imagine others like Skyrim will also get fixed with the firmware updates.. (Why are we even counting Skyrim ? .. did y'all forget that game on last gen ?)

If the same issues persist with games one year later, then I'll say it's a real issue, but at this point .. naah.

This is not even counting all the games which have received both visual AND performance boosts (COD, BF1, Mordor and many more).

 

[StriderHND]

60fps over 4K all the way, i don't know why is hard for developers to understand that. people like consistency with performance.

 

[5taquitos]

60fps over 4K all the way, i don't know why is hard for developers to understand that. people like consistency with performance.

Plenty of other people are attracted by a 30 fps game with all the possible visual bells and whistles.

It's not that hard to understand that different people like different things.

Insomniac isn't making 60 FPS games anymore because their data shows that more people care about good-looking 30 FPS games.

You don't have to agree (I don't), but it's pretty clear why 60 FPS isn't always a target.

Even a lot of GAF members can't seem to tell the difference between 30 and 60, and we're supposed to be the "most hardcore."

 

[johnnydrama]

The drama here is always fun to see, wait until announce 60m Ps4 sold to see this going full swing baby.

I love it!

None of what you said is relevant to the topic of this thread.

 

[Lady Gaia]

It's almost like there's a competitor out there with a vested interest in creating negative perceptions around the PS4 Pro...

There are certainly a few titles that have made dubious decisions here in the first two weeks of the new console's life, but having a look at this list? Not only does Tomb Raider have a high frame rate mode, but Dishonored 2 on the Pro isn't exactly struggling. It has been smooth enough that I've never noticed a problem while PC owners are struggling with really serious performance issues. Color me a happy Pro owner.

When I get home I'm like owing forward to seeing The Witness at 4K 30fps, 1440p 60fps, or 1080p 60fps with additional multi sampling. I expect I'll try all three modes just because the option is there. Wake me when there's a console alternative that comes close and I may spend a little more time investigating. For now the Pro is a convenient beast.

 

[Primethius]

60fps over 4K all the way, i don't know why is hard for developers to understand that. people like consistency with performance.

Visuals sell. Developers like sales.

Look at how well Battlefield 1 is selling on XB1/PS4. A "60FPS" shooter that hovers in the 40s often.

Why exactly would any dev look at that and think, "man, low framerate are really killing our sales?"

 

[Collateral22]

Plenty of other people are attracted by a 30 fps game with all the possible visual bells and whistles.

It's not that hard to understand that different people like different things.

Insomniac isn't making 60 FPS games anymore because their data shows that more people care about good-looking 30 FPS games.

You don't have to agree (I don't), but it's pretty clear why 60 FPS isn't always a target.

Even a lot of GAF members can't seem to tell the difference between 30 and 60, and we're supposed to be the "most hardcore."

I don't buy that people can't tell between 30 and 60. If they can't then they aren't looking at proper 60fps, or they have some serious issues with their eyes.

 

[mike6467]

It makes me sad that 60FPS is this pipe dream for consoles. Framerate drops are the most obtrusive and immersion breaking thing in a game for me. Better IQ, SS and less realistic grass/shadows don't mean anything if I'm in the middle of a big battle and everything drops to 20FPS for even a short time. I'm shocked so many people write it off and say we're just being pedantic and can't actually tell the difference.

My PC will never play PS4 games, so I know I know I'll buy the Pro eventually. I'm actually prepped to buy one this month if the feedback on the FFXV Pro mode is positive enough. Otherwise I'll wait for the exclusives I'm interested in to drop. Nonetheless...the hype around this launch had me hoping that the "Pro" was directed towards the people who really wanted the best performance. Performance to myself and a lot of others means higher framerates, and while we're seeing some improvements, it still feels like an afterthought. I'm hopeful new releases will give more in this regard and really make the Pro shine.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yup your right there.

My disappointment is Sony not asking devs to offer 2 modes

1. The 4K mode with downsampling to 1080p Tv;s for those graphic fans/

2. A 1400p or even 1080p mode which downsamples to1080p but gives better frame rates to the target, focusing on pacing and timing.

Sure devs could focus on delivering stable performance at slightly lower resolutions like 1440p(which is still significantly higher than 1080p) but they have no real strict mandate to do that.

And mandating devs to do such things would probably end up just like what happend when MS mandated 720p 2xMSAA for all games before launch. Dropped right quick cause of feasibility with different workloads

 

[deadscreensky]

There will never be a console ever that has 100% of titles at a locked 30 or 60. Never. No matter how powerful the hardware, or how light the games.

I'm pretty sure that's factually untrue, though the 3D era definitely killed console framerates.

 

[PuppetMaster]

30fps will always be a struggle for console games unless higher frame rates are mandated, which will probably never happen for non-VR titles.

We will never get 60fps games, no matter what.

Titanfall2 say you're wrong.

 

[leng jai]

What's the secret behind Infinite Warfare? That game runs at 60fps, looks fantastic and has high IQ.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It makes me sad that 60FPS is this pipe dream for consoles. Framerate drops are the most obtrusive and immersion breaking thing in a game for me. Better IQ, SS and less realistic grass/shadows don't mean anything if I'm in the middle of a big battle and everything drops to 20FPS for even a short time. I'm shocked so many people write it off and say we're just being pedantic and can't actually tell the difference.

Console owners generally see no issue with 30fps games and devs want to use all that power for what they can. That is why it is tolerated. There are more genres branching out to unlocked FPS, mostly because most of the games today are semi upgraded games from last generation that can use Jaguar in a more efficient manner than Xenon or Cell, but its not enough to mandate 60fps by any means.

 

[geordiemp]

Not only does Tomb Raider have a high frame rate mode, but Dishonored 2 on the Pro isn't exactly struggling. It has been smooth enough that I've never noticed a problem while PC owners are struggling with really serious performance issues. Color me a happy Pro owner..

Oh yes TF2 is amazing, its just disappointing that some games just dont give us the option.

If they cant optimise to give us both performance and IQ, then offer a performance mode at 1080p for Pro at least and cap it.

Oh and TF2 shows us we can have it all.....

 

[Inuhanyou]

What's the secret behind Infinite Warfare? That game runs at 60fps, looks fantastic and has high IQ.

Dynamic res. Just like BF1, just like titanfall. Titanfall can go as low as 720p depending on the load. On XB1 it can go as low as 480p(!!!), PS2 levels.

 

[Taker666]

I really don't understand why we're not seeing a 60fps 1080p mode on every Pro game.

Surely just giving that boost should be one of the easiest things they can do and take the least work?

 

[MistBreeze]

but, but ... but didn't you read the OP? - Tomb Raider is officially a game running at "sub 30 fps"...

No, friend on the pro you can chose

1080p unlocked 60 fps mode

Or 1080p enhanced mode locked 30 fps - almost

Or checkerboard 4k mode

This alone justifies a pro purchase

 

[5taquitos]

I really don't understand why we're not seeing a 60fps 1080p mode on every PRO game.

Surely just giving that boost should be one of the easiest things they can do and take the least work?

You're not seeing it because it's literally up to each individual developer, and they're not a hivemind.

 

[adamsapple]

Titanfall2 say you're wrong.

COD: IW is also one, in fact that's one where both visuals and performance gets a boost (in SP at least).

 

[Fliesen]

No, friend on the pro you can chose

1080p unlocked 60 fps mode

Or 1080p enhanced mode locked 30 fps - almost

Or checkerboard 4k mode

This alone justifies a pro purchase

i know, i was being facetious

 

[PuppetMaster]

I really don't understand why we're not seeing a 60fps 1080p mode on every Pro game.

Surely just giving that boost should be one of the easiest things they can do and take the least work?

No because many CPU bound games can never hit 60fps.

Even if they dropped the res lower than 1080.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

4 out of 36 isn't 9%.

11%, then

 

[Z3M0G]

I'm not even interested in (buying new) consoles anymore but the PS4 Pro is really underwhelming.

Hopefully the Scorpio will handle that better, I saw that gif on reddit that is really good imo, MS should impose that guideline to every Scorpio game:

This is not a console future of want. If this becomes standard, then performance standards will be thrown even further out the window.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I really don't understand why we're not seeing a 60fps 1080p mode on every PRO game.

Surely just giving that boost should be one of the easiest things they can do and take the least work?

The jaguar is upclocked around 30%. Your talking about a 100% FPS boost. Even keeping the res at 1080p, its not going to do much if the CPU is the bottleneck.

We've known before launch that games that are already unlocked on PS4 will see most benefit like Infamous, and even then will not be a stable 60

 

[Taker666]

You're not seeing it because it's literally up to each individual developer, and they're not a hivemind.

Well with something so obvious ...they should be a "hivemind".

 

[Marty Chinn]

The one aspect that I hope gets ironed out is that a game never has a worse framerate on the Pro over the OG PS4. Developers need to aim for games to be always better on the Pro and never worse. If you're going to be worse, then offer an option to either play the base PS4 version or a mode where you're not. It really sucks to be forced to play with a worse framerate on a more powerful system with no choice to correct it.

I really don't understand why we're not seeing a 60fps 1080p mode on every Pro game.

Surely just giving that boost should be one of the easiest things they can do and take the least work?

I don't think every game would even be able to handle it. Rise of the Tomb Raider doesn't even hold 60 in High Framerate mode.

 

[darscot]

Man is there no end to the Pro bashing nonsense. The FPS fanboys are out in full force and fully uninformed.

 

[Collateral22]

Btw, do the games run worse on the pro on a 1080p display with supersampling? Or is it just on 4k displays?

 

[RedAssedApe]

I read the OP. I'm asking if the OP has any first hand experience.



Other than a few of the boat trips (which are short and not playable) the whole game felt pretty good to me.

the controls in that game feel like you're under water. needs some tweaking

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Maybe if so many whiners weren't complaining over resolutions for the first 2 years of the cycle and complaining more about framerate, we wouldn't be in this situation where resolution matters more than framerate.

Great work guys. You won.

 

[adamsapple]

11%, then

isn't it 41 ? in that case it's still 9.7%

 

[Zemm]

My PS4 is struggling with 60fps games yet I'm looking at 144hz monitors for my PC. I feel like once I take that plunge, console gaming could be ruined forever :|

 

[leng jai]

Can a mod change the title to "some" games instead of "a lot of"?

 

[Marty Chinn]

isn't it 41 ? in that case it's still 9.7%

It's not just four games though. The Last of Us and Deus Ex also take a hit too.

 

[KillerMan91]

Visuals sell. Developers like sales.

Look at how well Battlefield 1 is selling on XB1/PS4. A "60FPS" shooter that hovers in the 40s often.

Why exactly would any dev look at that and think, "man, low framerate are really killing our sales?"

To be fair BF1 could look even better if they targeted 30fps on consoles like with BF3. So you can't say that DICE targeted best possible graphics with the game.

 

[Grimsen]

Btw, do the games run worse on the pro on a 1080p display with supersampling? Or is it just on 4k displays?

The game will behave the same on both displays.

 

[| Praxis |]

How to make a thread that's guaranteed to span double digit pages?

Make one that dares criticise a system people just spent hundreds of dollars on.