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[LordRaptor]

As depressingly predictable as it is to see how quickly people will swallow the corporate propaganda that mods = cheats because fuck you i got mine, in a no doubt futile attempt to stimulate some self awareness and questioning of things you hear, I will ask the following.

If the PC gaming space where moddability is by default the norm is such a horrible multiplayer experience that it is impossible to play games not ruined by cheating and hacking, how do e-sports exist?
Why are most titles in the MLG / ESL PC exclusive?
If 'average joe six pack' can't get a good game in without being one shot by decepticons, how can anyone possibly gt enough games in fairly and legitimately to not only git gud, but earn a living as a sponsored professional?

Riddle me this, batman

 

[LukasTaves]

Well, you decide.



IMO, Richard was way, way too forgiving in his video.
He did mention having to reinstall Windows just to finish the download, and losing 100+ GB of bandwidth before hand, sure, but... Seriously, it should be stated, re-stated and repeated throughout the whole video - shit like this was inexcusable in 2003. It's criminal in 2016!

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

It's totally the uwp defense force that makes these threads a shitshow.

Oh wait, no, it's not. It's posters like you that does.

 

[thehillissilent]

Apparently this encryption was circumvented already, so much for that. Paying customers stay losing.

I like to see where this is going to go. If they can get it to launch with the unecrypted files, that will be interesting. I'm not promoting piracy, but I just like to see if the game can successfully be modded.

 

[gossi]

Gears 4 is packaged in this, for info. I've seen the store API data.

 

[shandy706]

The game doesn't stutter for me though. Neither did Apex.

I wonder if my gaming PC being SOLELY a gaming PC has anything to do with it? There's basically nothing but games (and clients like Steam/Origin/etc.) and the OS on it.

There's absolutely nothing else running on my PC. No AV, no background software, no "extras". Just windows 10 and necessities.

 

[Durante]

I am still bemused by how quickly we moved from "encryption is just an option, don't worry" (in the previous thread about it) to "encryption is necessary because of how terrible PC gaming is".

One thing I notice across UWP rhetoric is that it magnifies minor niggles (that mostly have well-established solutions already in a traditional distribution setting) into these menacing behemoths that threaten to kill PC gaming. And then present UWP as the only way to "fix" them, and damn all the costs.

It's basically "fixing" PC gaming by making it console gaming.

 

[LukasTaves]

Apparently this encryption was circumvented already, so much for that. Paying customers stay losing.

How are paying consumers losing when by your very link it's intended for the apps acquired from the store?

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

So is there ANY chance this will come to Steam ? Has MS said anything on the matter ?

 

[LukasTaves]

I am still bemused by how quickly we moved from "encryption is just an option, don't worry" (in the previous thread about it) to "encryption is necessary because of how terrible PC gaming is".

One thing I notice across UWP rhetoric is that it magnifies minor niggles (that mostly have well-established solutions already in a traditional distribution setting) into these menacing behemoths that threaten to kill PC gaming. And then present UWP as the only way to "fix" them, and damn all the costs.

If this is for me. I haven't moved anything, if the encryption is optional for the dev it's within their rights to release an encrypted package.

But, I was also arguing for someone who said that he is said that so many AAA games are coming out in a walled garden and merely pointed out that's not 100% bad, just like having a open store isn't 100% good either.

Say what you want about lose of freedom, but developers being able to push updates that take control of your pc without any consent after the first install is not ideal either.

Edit: And I don't think anyone sane (emphasis on the sane) is arguing that uwp is already the end all solution for all that. I'm not denying that there's a lot to improve, but a more modern platform is needed. For many reasons, including development costs, but also adhering to modern standards instead of being a gigantic patch due to being around for so many years now.

 

[Abilidebob]

If this is for me. I haven't moved anything, if the encryption is optional for the dev it's within their rights to release an encrypted package.

But, I was also arguing for someone who said that he is said that so many AAA games are coming out in a walled garden and merely pointed out that's not 100% bad, just like having a open store isn't 100% good either.

Say what you want about lose of freedom, but developers being able to push updates that take control of your pc without any consent after the first install is not ideal either.

And here it is, again, the SFV rootkit "argument".

 

[thehillissilent]

So is there ANY chance this will come to Steam ? Has MS said anything on the matter ?

I highly doubt this will come to Steam. MS is promoting PlayAnywhere. They ultimately care about having users spend money on their digital store and enabling cross-play on their platforms that they own. It's all about control.

I think people got their hopes up too much due to Quantum Break coming to Steam. I don't believe any of the main AAA flagship exclusives (Gears, Halo, Forza) will ever come to Steam.

 

[JaggedSac]

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

It's totally the uwp defense force that makes these threads a shitshow.

Oh wait, no, it's not. It's posters like you that does.

You are a propagandist and an instigator. Only explanation.


Here is a relevant post I guess, from a Turn10 Community Manager:

We are aware of in-game stuttering issues that have been reported by the community on certain configurations on PC. We have some performance improvements coming in the next update, but in the meantime if you're having problems we would recommend to try to allow the game to set the default video settings to see if it improves your experience for now.

To go to default settings, press Y on the video options screen then save.

 

[dr_rus]

So is there ANY chance this will come to Steam ? Has MS said anything on the matter ?

Spoiler

Won't happen. Playground isn't interested in this and Remedy's push was probably the only reason we see QB on Steam now. Microsoft have no incentive to do this at all.

 

[epmode]

I am still bemused by how quickly we moved from "encryption is just an option, don't worry" (in the previous thread about it) to "encryption is necessary because of how terrible PC gaming is".

One thing I notice across UWP rhetoric is that it magnifies minor niggles (that mostly have well-established solutions already in a traditional distribution setting) into these menacing behemoths that threaten to kill PC gaming. And then present UWP as the only way to "fix" them, and damn all the costs.

It's basically "fixing" PC gaming by making it console gaming.

It's some serious spin, that's for sure. Reminds me of politics threads.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

As depressingly predictable as it is to see how quickly people will swallow the corporate propaganda that mods = cheats because fuck you i got mine, in a no doubt futile attempt to stimulate some self awareness and questioning of things you hear, I will ask the following.

If the PC gaming space where moddability is by default the norm is such a horrible multiplayer experience that it is impossible to play games not ruined by cheating and hacking, how do e-sports exist?
Why are most titles in the MLG / ESL PC exclusive?
If 'average joe six pack' can't get a good game in without being one shot by decepticons, how can anyone possibly gt enough games in fairly and legitimately to not only git gud, but earn a living as a sponsored professional?

Riddle me this, batman

I think most people know that people making this excuse are being disingenuous. Sure there is the occasional person cheating when your get into a multiplayer match on pc. But if we're gonna talk about the occasional occurrence ruining an entire platform we might as well include console too since there have been plenty of console games in the past that have been hacked and had cheaters.

 

[espher]

Its purely in the interest of starting with a fair and equal playing ground for myself. PC doesn't offer that for me.

Why does PC not offer you a 'fair and equal playground for [yourself]"? I think I missed that explanation elsewhere in the thread.

 

[rrs]

The SF5 situation was a badly made anti-tamper that did nothing but make security risks

So is there ANY chance this will come to Steam ? Has MS said anything on the matter ?

put the game on a competing store? ha ha ha
Quantum Break only jumped ship due to a contract that allowed it, and you can bet MS isn't so generous to anyone else

 

[dragonelite]

I think most people know that people making this excuse are being disingenuous. Sure there is the occasional person cheating when your get into a multiplayer match on pc. But if we're gonna talk about the occasional occurrence ruining an entire platform we might as well include console too since there have been plenty of console games in the past that have been hacked and had cheaters.

Really depends on the game and the community surrounding that game, but most importantly what server tools do players and admins have.

 

[Deadbeat]

Really depends on the game and the community surrounding that game, but most importantly what server tools do players and admins have.

Well you dont have to worry there. None of MS's games will have those required tools on PC.

 

[LukasTaves]

And here it is, again, the SFV rootkit "argument".

Oh and here's again another shit post.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not saying that the user should lose control over how should their applications behave, but the unwilling users shouldn't have applications escalating to system rights. If you can't see the difference than please stop quoting and add me to the ignore list. It will save us both time.

Currently uwp is terrible at giving user control, but win32 is also terrible for putting the responsibility in the hands of the developers for not fucking up your pc even if you don't want it.

But what do you think that can improve faster? A platform that has been for more than 20 years, made with ton of hacks to give developers what they wanted and that has to support all that 20 more years with any improvement, or a new one more modern and lean, that is made with many modern design principles (like for instance separation of concerns) which was done precisely so it could evolve at a faster pace?

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

I highly doubt this will come to Steam. MS is promoting PlayAnywhere. They ultimately care about having users spend money on their digital store and enabling cross-play on their platforms that they own. It's all about control.

I think people got their hopes up too much due to Quantum Break coming to Steam. I don't believe any of the main AAA flagship exclusives (Gears, Halo, Forza) will ever come to Steam.

Shame really, as I can imagine they would probably make most of their money from the Xbox version anyway. I guess the only hope is MS improve the Windows Store / UWP, as I'm not really a fan of UWP and their high store prices.

If not I will just wait until the games drop in price later down the line, waiting won't be a problem either, as I'm not the biggest Xbox fan, so I'm in no massive rush to play Microsoft's exclusive games, but I would have happily supported them if they were more flexible.

 

[Big_Al]

Really depends on the game and the community surrounding that game, but most importantly what server tools do players and admins have.

This is why it's so disappointing these days to see the reduction in the number of PC versions offering players server files/the ability to host their own servers. I've been in many servers over the years where you've had a good community and cheaters have been told to beat it/aren't welcome/get thrown out and banned. You give the players/admins the tools to do this the number of cheaters tend to be as minimised as much as possible within an active server.

 

[LordRaptor]

Why does PC not offer you a 'fair and equal playground for [yourself]"? I think I missed that explanation elsewhere in the thread.

PSN and XBL cost money. I mean, they must automatically be better, or that would make the people paying for it chumps, and there is definitely no buyers remorse.

 

[TBiddy]

Well you dont have to worry there. None of MS's games will have those required tools on PC.

Aren't most new games running on dedicated multiplayer servers now a days?

 

[Carlius]

Gears of War 4 better not have this shit.

lol what? of course it will be like this but its a different studio and gears ultimate after the patches its a flawless experience.

 

[Deadbeat]

Aren't most new games running on dedicated multiplayer servers now a days?

"dedicated server" is a useless statement on its own. Just because its advertised as a point doesnt mean the servers have the necessary bandwidth being supplied to instances of the game to ensure a lag free experience. How many cod games advertise dedicated servers now but still have tons of lag? Because its a bullshit PR statement.

Also, that doesnt mean theres key features like: Server Browser, Server tools for admins to setup and run the servers, or even dedicated server files available to the consumer.

 

[TBiddy]

"dedicated server" is a useless statement on its own. Just because its advertised as a point doesnt mean the servers have the necessary bandwidth being supplied to instances of the game to ensure a lag free experience. How many cod games advertise dedicated servers now but still have tons of lag? Because its a bullshit PR statement.

Also, that doesnt mean theres key features like: Server Browser, Server tools for admins to setup and run the servers, or even dedicated server files available to the consumer.

My point was, that many new games do automatic matchmaking and thus there is no way for people to create their own servers, where they set their own rules, unfortunately.

 

[Noobcraft]

So is there ANY chance this will come to Steam ? Has MS said anything on the matter ?

Very unlikely. The game is deeply integrated with Xbox Live (Dedicated servers, friend's lists, party system, cross platform saves, etc.) It's not unreasonable to think games like ReCore could make the jump as it doesn't leverage Xbox live at all, but I highly doubt something like Halo, Forza, or Gears will make it to Steam.

 

[prudislav]

Currently uwp is terrible at giving user control, but win32 is also terrible for putting the responsibility in the hands of the developers for not fucking up your pc even if you don't want it.

So its better to give all control over your games to Microsift aka the company with a long history of fucking up everything pc gaming related... ok you persuaded me

 

[epmode]

Very unlikely. The game is deeply integrated with Xbox Live (Dedicated servers, friend's lists, party system, cross platform saves, etc.) It's not unreasonable to think games like ReCore could make the jump as it doesn't leverage Xbox live at all, but I highly doubt something like Halo, Forza, or Gears will make it to Steam.

All of that is possible in Win32. Ubisoft implemented their own garbage network in Steam even though it's happier in Uplay.

Whether or not MS will bother depends on how much they like money and how important their eternally terrible digital store matters in comparison.

 

[Lazaro]

Shame really, as I can imagine they would probably make most of their money from the Xbox version anyway. I guess the only hope is MS improve the Windows Store / UWP, as I'm not really a fan of UWP and their high store prices.

If not I will just wait until the games drop in price later down the line, waiting won't be a problem either, as I'm not the biggest Xbox fan, so I'm in no massive rush to play Microsoft's exclusive games, but I would have happily supported them if they were more flexible.

You might see titles like Recore, Ori 2, cuphead etc. on Steam but not core Xbox titles like Gears, Halo, Forza etc.

 

[Noobcraft]

All of that is possible in Win32. Ubisoft implemented their own garbage network in Steam even though it's happier in Uplay.

Wheter or not MS will bother depends on how much they like money and how important their eternally terrible digital store matters in comparison.

It is possible, but unlikely that Microsoft is going to do it unless they drop the idea of Xbox as a platform altogether.

 

[LordRaptor]

Very unlikely. The game is deeply integrated with Xbox Live (Dedicated servers, friend's lists, party system, cross platform saves, etc.) It's not unreasonable to think games like ReCore could make the jump as it doesn't leverage Xbox live at all, but I highly doubt something like Halo, Forza, or Gears will make it to Steam.

This sort of pretends that GFWL never existed, and that GFWL titles weren't ever sold on Steam though.
Or do X360 BC titles not use current XBL at all...?

 

[LordBaztion]

I guess that's the price to pay for having a console exclusive in PC. It seems more convenient than buying a $300 box.

 

[Knurek]

Say what you want about lose of freedom, but developers being able to push updates that take control of your pc without any consent after the first install is not ideal either.

Where were you when Microsoft forced an unfinished, buggy Anniversary Edition patch onto consumers, actively bricking computers left and right?

 

[Uraizen]

I hate this type of shit with a passion, especially since I force 60fps in games that don't give me the option to. However, I will begrudgingly deal with it if it's a game I want and gives me every single option I want. However, if it actually is the cause of performance issues I will completely skip the game altogether.

 

[ghostjoke]

Well Microsoft publishing Quantum Break on Steam this week certainly shows they want to actually make money/sell copies, whether or not they'll ever do it with games like FH3 or Gears 4 is another matter.

Wasn't there a reason behind Quantum Break appearing on Steam beyond the goodness of Microsoft's heart? Either way, I was talking about the overall, line up the appealing vs unappealing things about the W10 store front and how that would relate to sustainable profits in the long run.

 

[CrAzY FiNgErS]

Indeed.

They will support games decades after their initial developers ceased to exist.
They will improve the graphical and rendering quality beyond anything the original version featured.
They will add new feature sets to whole swathes of games and allow you to play them with new input and output devices released long after the game.
They will sometimes even make games which only support 30 FPS run at 60.

And all without re-buying a "remaster". It really is terrible.

I love you

 

[King Gilga]

I guess that's the price to pay for having a console exclusive in PC. It seems more convenient than buying a $300 box.

Last gen I was happy playing MS games on 360 even thought I'm primarily a PC gamer.

Bullshit like this just makes me not want to deal with their bullshit on PC, and not want to support them at all by buying an xbone.

 

[StereoVsn]

PSN and XBL cost money. I mean, they must automatically be better, or that would make the people paying for it chumps, and there is definitely no buyers remorse.

Make PC Gaming Great Again! #removeHax0rs

Oh noes, Win32 lets Devs hax0r PCs and install root kits. You know what worked against that, proper anti-malware tools and escalation warnings. Don't click Yes on shady prompts.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

If there wasn't a good reason to not buy games on the Win10Store (and there already was), they've definitely given me one now. Any DRM that directly affects gameplay performance is unacceptable.

 

[Deadbeat]

I guess that's the price to pay for having a console exclusive in PC. It seems more convenient than buying a $300 box.

As long as I can pickup the keys for 5 dollars or less and the store only holds MS 1st party hostage.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

So if this DRM has already been defeated, has anybody decrypted and launched the game yet to see if it fixes the stuttering problem above 30 fps?

 

[Deadbeat]

So if this DRM has already been defeated, has anybody decrypted and launched the game yet to see if it fixes the stuttering problem above 30 fps?

Give it about a week or two. When Quantum Break was figured out, it took a week or so for people to sort out which registry entries need to be done, which torrent of files needs to be downloaded, how to bypass the YARRR EYE PATCH anti piracy measure, and so forth. For this decryption thing, the nuances of how the game works might not even be worth figuring out. People just dont care about win 10 store problem solving.

 

[StMeph]

I was seriously interested in trying Forza Horizon 3 to flex my new build, but this basically kills any interest I had in doing so.

Thanks Microsoft.

 

[Nzyme32]

I think what a lot of PC gamers need to understand is at the end of the day, piracy prevention is more important than you being able to mod your games. I think people need to stop with the mentality that just because PC is an open platform doesn't mean the software has to be.

That's utter nonsense.

Any individual is capable of making their own mind for what they want to support, see as good practice or bad, see as something worth paying for or not. I choose to forgo MS game offerings when attached to UWP and silly policies such as this, based around an ecosystem that is not inline with the flexibility I expect from games I purchase. No one needs to "change their mentality" about what they feel is reasonable to pay for and what isn't

If someone else is happy to buy - good for them.

 

[itxaka]

They just don't get it,do they?

Games division still thinks that PC is either equal to console, where you can get away with a lot, or that Microsoft still has the power it did in the 90s to get away with everything.

Oh well, good for everybody, just keep on digging Microsoft.

 

[LTWheels]

Is it confirmed that this drm is causing the performance issues or is it some thing that is caused by the engine etc that can be patched?

 

[plagiarize]

I am still bemused by how quickly we moved from "encryption is just an option, don't worry" (in the previous thread about it) to "encryption is necessary because of how terrible PC gaming is".

One thing I notice across UWP rhetoric is that it magnifies minor niggles (that mostly have well-established solutions already in a traditional distribution setting) into these menacing behemoths that threaten to kill PC gaming. And then present UWP as the only way to "fix" them, and damn all the costs.

It's basically "fixing" PC gaming by making it console gaming.

"Fixing" in quotes is right. Forza Horizon 3 has plenty of normal things wrong with it and some really weird performance related things to boot.

 

[What A Time To Be Alive]

While I'm a little bothered by the fact of this EFS, I think what bothers me more is that it's consuming a lot of CPU resources.

If your form of DRM consumes enough resources where it causes problems with games that's when I have problems with the DRM being used.