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Gamespot: Why I'm not excited for Forza Motorsport 6
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Eh, I sorta agree with him. I'm over the "traditional" racer. It's boring. There's been no innovation in years. Its the same. Damn. Thing. For. Years. It makes me LOL a bit when I see people jizz about "OMG SO MANY CARS AND TRACKS" then it turns out that most of them were in the predecessor game. And even if they weren't in the direct predecessor, they were probably in the game before.
No, I don't think that open world games like the Crew or Horizon are ideal or perfect. But I'm shocked that closed circuit racing games are as popular as they are. Just doesn't make any sense to release effectively the same game over and over and over and expect people to buy it... and yet they do. It's weird. I wouldn't have bought Halo 2 if it shipped with the same maps as Halo 1 but with slightly better graphics and an additional weapon or 2.
No, I don't think that open world games like the Crew or Horizon are ideal or perfect. But I'm shocked that closed circuit racing games are as popular as they are. Just doesn't make any sense to release effectively the same game over and over and over and expect people to buy it... and yet they do. It's weird. I wouldn't have bought Halo 2 if it shipped with the same maps as Halo 1 but with slightly better graphics and an additional weapon or 2.
Yup, Dan seemed genuinely concerned about the user base's complaints.
FH6 is going to have the advantage of them knowing what not to do.
Really, I just want some night races.
Looking at sales, sim/closed circuit racing games do muuuuch better in Europe and Asia than in the US. That's where I'm coming from.
That would require consistency in their scores.
Gran Turismo 5 - 8/10
Gran Turismo 6 - 7/10 (like, really, lol?)
Forza Motorsport 4 - 8.5/10
Forza Motorsport 5 - 9/10 (like, really, lol?)
GT5 and FM4 reviews were done by Justin Calvert, all the others, including FH2 and Driveclub, were done by different people.
You may find this surprising, but there are many people who enjoy driving a car under realistic simulated conditions on real tracks from around the world.
SkoomaSuckinSwit
Member
Aaaaahh!
I so want another Tokyo Xtreme Racer/Shutokō Battle/Tokyo Highway Challenge game! Open highway night racing, love it.
Drac84
Member
Why does everything have to be open world? And why do all games need to have mass appeal? What's wrong with a racing game that caters to racing game enthusiasts?
It's fine to like Horizon 2 (by all accounts it's a great game), but that doesn't mean there is no longer a place for track racers like Forza, GT and Driveclub. Just look at the thread revealing Driveclub to be the best selling console exclusive title of 2014 in the UK for proof of that.
It's fine to like Horizon 2 (by all accounts it's a great game), but that doesn't mean there is no longer a place for track racers like Forza, GT and Driveclub. Just look at the thread revealing Driveclub to be the best selling console exclusive title of 2014 in the UK for proof of that.
O RLY? Please, tell me more...
Obviously there are, but that doesn't defeat my point that there's been basically no innovation in the genre forever. It's been the same. Exact. Thing. For years now. Hell, whenever a new racing game comes out, it seems like people whine and complain that it doesn't contain all the tracks and cars that the previous one did. To me... wtf? Thats what you want?! The same exact stuff that was in the last game?!?
Firstly, your mistake is in thinking open world racing game design is new. It's not, it goes a long way back, from Test Drive Unlimited all the way through to Midnight Club, Burnout, even Need for Speed. Open world racing isn't actually inherently new, even if your own personal experiences with them started with The Crew or Forza Horizon 2.
But on to the circuit based racer complaint, you buy new one's the same reasons you'd buy a new open world racer like Forza Horizon 3 in future for example. For new locations, tracks, features, cars, modes etc. Top Gear stuff, Nascar, Rally, Go-Karting, night races, better weather systems, better physics, better tire simulation, pit stops, tuning options, damage modelling, more realistic AI, better audio reproduction, better graphics, more realistic day to night transitions, conditions that greatly affect visibility or the nature and look of the track, and so on and so on.
Better racing physics, better sound, better graphics, more accurate representations of real-life tracks, etc. People are interested in that. That's fine if you don't care about that stuff. Lots of people do though.
KnightHart
Member
"Tyranny of the track"
What a hilariously cringe-worthy statement. THE TRACKS MAKE ME FEEL LIKE I'M BEING CONTROLLED BY THE MAAAAN, MAN! Is this guy gonna say the same thing for Project Cars or the next Codemasters racing game?
That being said there's always going to be room for circuit racers and open world racers. Forza Motorsport 5 and Horizon 2 play so differently that they're basically opposites of each other when it comes to racing games. It even feels like they're for completely different audiences as well.
What a hilariously cringe-worthy statement. THE TRACKS MAKE ME FEEL LIKE I'M BEING CONTROLLED BY THE MAAAAN, MAN! Is this guy gonna say the same thing for Project Cars or the next Codemasters racing game?
Yo there needs to be a new DIRT game get on that.
That being said there's always going to be room for circuit racers and open world racers. Forza Motorsport 5 and Horizon 2 play so differently that they're basically opposites of each other when it comes to racing games. It even feels like they're for completely different audiences as well.
I do believe it does defeat your point. Each new GT or Forza improves on the driving model of the previous one. Innovation comes from the new driving models which come closer and closer to emulating the feel of said car driving in the real world. Innovation comes from laser mapping real world tracks and emulating the conditions those tracks in the real world have and how the cars interact with the. This is what people who enjoy playing a racing simulator want.
SlowRevolution
Member
he's a video producer who used to be pretty much totally behind the scenes, but since the layoffs it seems like they've been leaning on them to be on-air personalities way more than they used to. it's worked with Mary, but not really anyone else.
he kills it with the filming of stuff like The Point, but yeah this wasn't great.
Why not just play FM5 then?
I want to play a realistic track racer like you mention but two huge things would stop me:
1. The completely assfucked policy that console makers have when it comes to third party wheels and pedals.
2. The complete lack of innovation in the genre. Careers modes are nothing but very thin veils over what are essentially the same races and track and events from past games. It's the same grind game after game with little virtual incentives or plot to spice up the tedium between and in races.
DoubleTake
Member
This.
Im trying to figure if this video was really necessary. Okay you dont like closed circuit racing games...big whoop thanks for letting us know? As if a racing game cant be fun if you cant ride over the beautiful sunflowers on billy bob's ranch.
Firstly, I think you misunderstood me. I don't think that open world racing is perfect, or the pinnacle of racing, or whatever. its... a thing. Its like how open world RPG's complement more linear RPG's.
Secondly, sure, but that's sort of where I have the problem. We should pay $60 every 24 months for a new Forza game that has slightly better graphics than the one before it? Really? That's what it comes down to?! Seems like pretty crappy value to me. Because I don't really buy the "new cars, tracks, etc." argument because I never see anyone praise that stuff when a new racer comes out. Instead, they just moan about how the game is lacking the content of the previous one.
I'd love to see the practical differences in the "driving model." Really. I've played most of the Forza's and GT's, and I just don't see it. Ok, fine, I'm not the type to go out and spend $300 on a wheel (well, I did when I was a kid... but alas I can't rely on my parents anymore), and maybe thats where you notice the difference, but outside of the "spending $300 on a wheel" crowd, does anyone care?
I think the only way forward for GT and FM is to innovate. More of everything still feels somewhat more of the same.
I propose adding stealth elements to the game and perhaps a .50 caliber vehicle mounted machine gun for that extra bit of fun...
I agree on point #1, but that's not the game's fault as far as I'm aware of. For your second point, What would innovation be to you in a racing simulator?
Also you wouldn't play FM5 because FM6 will improve on it in ways yet revealed and likely include more cars and tracks. It's not a matter of IF it will improve on FM5. If that doesn't interest you than these aren't your type of games.
Alright just stop writing new articles or videos game websites, you guys are so ridiculous. Industry already proved they knew shit about great racing with Driveclub, but really? Closed circuit racers are now old news because some other racers are open world? Fuck the fizzity fuck off. This isn't an opinion, it's an abandonment of sense. How many movie critics have you ever in life heard go "I don't like the general drama genre now that i've experienced the thriller genre. It's just so much more exciting and dynamic!" Nobody does that, because they're not mentally incapable of spanning their understanding and appreciation of the quality and merits of these genres to their respective goals.
How these people ever got through these generations of gaming in one piece is a true modern miracle.
Handy Fake
Member
I see a glimmer of a point here. Are you saying rather than a yearly Forza game with barely perceptible improvements, you'd prefer one every two or three years with greater leaps in technology?
I'd go along with that.
I just gave you around 15 plus reasons why you might buy a new iteration of such a franchise. It's usually a lot more than just better graphics, new cars and new tracks.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Getting pretty sick of this push for "open-world" everything.
To be fair, what he says isn't very different from what people say on their video game podcasts where nobody questions the premise of why you're even making that statement.
The difference is the production value and the visibility this video has by being published on Youtube.
You could probably take snippets from what Jeff Gerstmann said about Donkey Kong and title it "Why I'm not excited for another Donkey Kong."
RespectThySole
Member
What a terrible article. I enjoy mainline Forza a lot more than Horizon. I don't get this open world obsession.
He lost me the moment he got to where DC has "No Soul." Fucking buzzwords, never fails to turn me off a review or piece of work.
Agreed. Everyone wants 1080p 60fps open world. If it's not open world then it must clearly be garbage and a poor "cinematic" experience.
Agreed. Everyone wants 1080p 60fps open world. If it's not open world then it must clearly be garbage and a poor "cinematic" experience.
DoubleTake
Member
This. These are the types of articles/videos that cause the majority to believe "open world or bust" when in reality not everything needs that sort of design to be considered great or liberating or soulful.
Pubslishers/Devs see this and more often than not we end up with game worlds that feel empty and lifeless with an obnoxious amount of collecathon BS instead of a more focused game/world.
Its great if you like open world everything but something not being that way doesnt detract from it in anyway and could possibly make it better.
Are the gaming websites of the world really getting so cynical these days that the only types of articles they can write consist of "why this new game will probably suck and I'm not buying it so you shouldn't either also this whole industry I'm a part of stinks".
Seems like within the last 2 months every major , popular site has done at least one of these lately.
Not to see they're without merit entirely , it just seems like the press has been pretty negative on games in general for a little while. I guess that's a step up from gushing about every single announcement in template previews (a trend that I'm glad seems to have died) but the anti-hype bugs me a in a different way I suppose.
Seems like within the last 2 months every major , popular site has done at least one of these lately.
Not to see they're without merit entirely , it just seems like the press has been pretty negative on games in general for a little while. I guess that's a step up from gushing about every single announcement in template previews (a trend that I'm glad seems to have died) but the anti-hype bugs me a in a different way I suppose.
I agree. I track cars in real life and I found FH2's open worldness to be super awesome. Dumped 150 hours into it. I'd dump more if they dangled more carrots to grind for!
I wish they'd let me on a sim mode to play against other people's times or in real-time races.
GT series has been dead to me for some time.
I wish they'd let me on a sim mode to play against other people's times or in real-time races.
GT series has been dead to me for some time.
soundscream
Member
fm5>fh2
Different strokes and stuff
But yeah I have over 40 hrs in Horizon 2 level 176, and I find myself going back to FM5 more often. While the freedom of Horizon gives you a nice reprise from the standard track racing of Motorsport, it doesn't offer the precision or challenge you get from track racers. There are no crazy shortcuts or WTF moments, but in its place are high stress palm sweat inducing moments where you try to shave mere milliseconds off your lap times so you can move up a few places on the leader board. Lapping the ring chasing my friends ghost is some of the most fun I had last year, and continue to have.
DidntKnowJack
Member
Oh for fucks sake.
Look, arcade racers are great. Open world racers can be great. That doesn't mean every game has to follow this same model. Why this guy wants a carbon copy of a game he already owns is beyond me.
That video just screams casual gamer to me.
Look, arcade racers are great. Open world racers can be great. That doesn't mean every game has to follow this same model. Why this guy wants a carbon copy of a game he already owns is beyond me.
That video just screams casual gamer to me.
Basically saying that open world > Tracks?
Can't disagree more. I NFS Most Wanted, The Crew and Burnout Paradise were all ruined by open world design in my eyes. I'd rather have a well crafted track that plays well. When the map is so big, each race is designed around the world, rather than the world being designed around the race.
Can't disagree more. I NFS Most Wanted, The Crew and Burnout Paradise were all ruined by open world design in my eyes. I'd rather have a well crafted track that plays well. When the map is so big, each race is designed around the world, rather than the world being designed around the race.
Some people claim linear cinematic games are the one's taking over the industry, but I'm not sure that is all that accurate.
The current fad in next gen gaming I'd say is open world game design, with constant unnecessary filler missions and content fluff. Just look at any list of recently released major games and up-coming releases. Assassin's Creed Black Flag, Unity, Sunset Overdrive, Dragon Age Inquisition, InFamous Second Son, Forza Horizon 2, Destiny, Metal Gear Solid V, Final Fantasy XV, Zelda U, Witcher 3, Bloodborne, Watchdogs, The Division, GTA V, The Witness, No Man's Sky, Star Citzen, RiME, Dying Light, Dead Island 2, Xenoblade X, Arkham Knight, The Crew and so on and so on. It's literally open world after open world.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind my open world games here and there, and generally very much enjoy them, but I also like a balance of design approach, and in that sense track based racers, cinematic shooters and so on, are just as novel.
Paracelsus
Member
Is he saying that because it takes actual skill in mastering tracks to win races while you can just go around and have fun in open world games?
It takes skill to be first in FH2 as well. Trust me, it's easy to destroy kids who mash the gas and brake too late and bounce off walls. People with actual skill will beat them every time.
That's fair? "Well it's only as bad as a shitty game podcast?"
I think there's a reason I never listen to podcasts about gaming hahaha. But seriously, this is some genuine amateur hour stuff and if ever people wanted a simple illustration about how profoundly immature this industry remains at time, just watch this video. It's the musings from someone with the mental maturity of a fourteen year old. Literally he's incapable of having the ability to appreciate the merits of (or be "exicted for") a completely different racing type games with different goals. To continue my movie critic analogy, that'd be like if someone watched Avatar and then said "well I just can't watch Children of Men anymore. Sci fi movies just aren't the same now after I experienced Pandora."
publicpwnerer
Member
Yeah, but not everyone is a racing enthusiast either. I don't buy / play track racers. Not because it's a "corridor" racer or whatever bullshit buzzwords people have conjured up for their inability to articulate their likes and dislikes. I just simply have no interest in racing as a motorsport...and track racing tries to emulate that as much as possible.
My personal favourite "racers", or games involving cars are Motorstorm (franchise), Burnout 3 & Takedown, and NFS: Underground 1+2.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Game journalists may need a new job if they don't have a taste for games anymore. What use is a food critic that only like Mc Donalds food. Broaden your pallet, be like that Anthony Bourdain guy and explore, there's so many reasons track based racing games should exist and these game journalists seem to want them to die out for some stupid personal reason of theirs.
It's fair in the sense that if we're grading on a curve this isn't any worse than what a lot of podcasts release every week.That's fair? "Well it's only as bad as a shitty game podcast?"
I think there's a reason I never listen to podcasts about gaming hahaha. But seriously, this is some genuine amateur hour stuff and if ever people wanted a simple illustration about how profoundly immature this industry remains at time, just watch this video. It's the musings from someone with the mental maturity of a fourteen year old.
I'm not applauding the state of game criticism, if you can even call this that.
This dude seems to be into fantasy type stuff, so maybe this video is his fantasy of being in a room with Phil Spencer or Shuhei Yoshida and deciding what game is greenlit.
My point is, these ARE my type of games. I like driving and racing games, both arcade and realistic ones. I am the target audience. But I played FM2 and FM3 and not the others that followed because the formula got tired and because GT5 let me use a Logitech wheel with it.
Just because it is a racing simulator does not mean that every iteration only involves improving the game engine and addig tracks and cars. That's ridiculous and it is thinking like that which has got us to this very stale point in the genre. At least the GT series is trying to innovate with the team driving and the special races. What has FM really done?
Paracelsus
Member
But I suppose a "driving simulator" doesn't leave much room for lollygagging, does it? You can't just pull a TDU2 on FM5.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I never got a chance to finish my Tokyo Xtreme Racer, I let my cousin borrow it and never saw it again. Good game at the time.