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GVF-Hop l0 13l La Soulja Nostra
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You have a good point, but I'm only talking about after breaking out and sustaining his spot with the amount of venom sent in his direction. That was only So Far Gone, his third or fourth tape, after dude had already been picked up by Wayne and co. He got the right cosign, that cosigned believed in him, and they made the right moves. The speed at which that happened is crazy but that's also the industry going through transitions to facilitate that sort of thing. People were dying to sign him because they saw him coming, I don't really believe the idea that he paid his way to the top.For me, Kendrick has a couple of those moments. It didn't really materialize in a single song for me till GKMC (Sing About Me) but already on section 80 he was showing off a combo of crazy wordplay, subject matter and flashes of brilliance in overall technical breadth and depth. When people started taking Drake a little more seriously as a rapper I think it was in between Take Care and NWTS and he started dropping more fire throwaway tracks on soundcloud and his radio dominance became clear. Anyway Marvin's Room might be that moment for him, maybe.
undebateable greatest of all time artist
Barrage of opposition? He already had a presence and contacts in the entertainment industry before he ever dropped a verse. His mixtapes had Kanye West, 9th Wonder, Boi-1da production.... Lil Wayne, Bun features... Compare that to say, Hov himself, who was getting kicked out of A&R meetings and had to actually sell drugs to muster enough money to break into the music industry. Of course there were a lot of heads sticking up their nose at Drake, but they don't matter too much in a market sense and haven't since the 90s.
Either way IMO he's not seeing Jay on trajectory, he has no Reasonable Doubt level album and I don't really see him dropping a Blueprint either really.
If I had to pick, Drake's moment would probably be Marvin's Room for me too. Kendrick probably Keisha's Song IMO.
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I think this is a good thing to talk about, there's been discussion of this sort of thing in battle rap recently, where MCs have that "god moment." That shit that solidifies them in your eyes and no matter how far they fall off in the back of your head you're like "but he made Thriller. Thriller."
Y'all feel like any MC has done that for you in the last decade or so? Let's say, post GRODT?
i think where this rapper's legacy really breaks down is his skill as a rapper?? wtf ru talm bout?
I feel like albums are kind of general, like we always talk about what the greatest album in the last x amount of years.
But was there a specific moment where someone clicked and became that dude for you? Could be a song, could be a line even.
Your legacy as an artist and as an MC are completely different. Especially in an era with more genre crossover than there has ever been since the beginning of hip-hop. There's also a ton of stuff from great MCs that is completely unlistenable today.
Well since it's personal.
Maad City for Kendrick. "Brace yourself I'll take you on a trip down memory lane". I was already a huge fan and the album felt special but this part was a holy shit moment. The atmosphere and build up towards him saying that first line in his frightened/young sounding voice. Along with that I could literally know when I heard that, everyone else did. It felt big enough to affect many people when the album dropped. If that makes any sense.
Maad City for Kendrick. "Brace yourself I'll take you on a trip down memory lane". I was already a huge fan and the album felt special but this part was a holy shit moment. The atmosphere and build up towards him saying that first line in his frightened/young sounding voice. Along with that I could literally know when I heard that, everyone else did. It felt big enough to affect many people when the album dropped. If that makes any sense.
Face it Tiger..
Banned
Storm Chamber
Banned
I don't think he paid his way to the top per se but he obviously had more resources. Definitely middle class, was a child actor, etc. By Comeback Season he was already making real inroads into the industry imo.
Outside of who we've already mentioned I'd say Danny Brown on Die Like a Rockstar, Curren$y on BBS, Ka on Jungle, and Freddie Gibbs on Uno.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I can't come up with a specific 'god moment' right now, but I'm pretty sure there are a lot on GKMC. That album is so fucking good. I remember listening to it the first time on my bus to the uni and it was an enlightenment; the biggest paradigm shift the rap world has witnessed since years
But then trap came
But then trap came
Wouldn't personally call it a god moment or whatever, but this is probably my favourite moment of Danny's career. The buildup to it through his delivery and lyrics is basically perfect on that song. And then the beat slowly strips itself away.
Syph Medwes
Member
why do you think Marvin's Room was a moment?
not saying it wasn't, just took me be surprise reading that
not saying it wasn't, just took me be surprise reading that
nah, crossover is nothing new, word to epmd, ur mental gymnastics to arrive at this point are medal worthy
As are your reading skills, evidently.
Going strictly by this definition I would say Below The Heavens. That shit blew my mind when I first heard it and is one of my all-time favourites, even if Blu fell off the face of the earth after.
Kendrick denies the title of "Rapper" too. they can try to separate themselves from rap all they want, it's the genre they exist in. there is no more or less crossover now than historically. walk this way, came out in 1986
your are hedging when you say he is an all time great artist but not MC, as if he were a painter or fashion designer
Syph Medwes
Member
wait, are you applying this to kendrick or someone else?
Net_Wrecker
Member
I unno about "God moments" but I can recall a few "Yeah, that's it right there" tracks where it clicked for me over the last few years
Kendrick (those Bone Thugs harmonized backing vocals)
Schoolboy Q
Danny Brown
Bronson
Black Milk
Killer Mike
Currensy
Drake's Ghostwriter
As for albums, I have to agree with RP912 on A Piece of Strange. I wasn't ready for that when it dripped in 2005. I don't even know why I checked it out, I had no idea who Cunninlynguists were, but that lush production and the album's cohesion overall from production, to lyrics, to themes blew me away.
Kendrick (those Bone Thugs harmonized backing vocals)
Schoolboy Q
Danny Brown
Bronson
Black Milk
Killer Mike
Currensy
Drake's Ghostwriter
As for albums, I have to agree with RP912 on A Piece of Strange. I wasn't ready for that when it dripped in 2005. I don't even know why I checked it out, I had no idea who Cunninlynguists were, but that lush production and the album's cohesion overall from production, to lyrics, to themes blew me away.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
When Lil' Wayne dropped this verse.
Tha Carter dropped at around that time and Wayne went from the 'wobbity wobbity' kid from Cash Money to legit MC to, for a time, the biggest rapper in the world.
im just saying this is gaf-hop not gaf-artist. you dont get to say "well this rapper:
bars = 1/10
singing ability = 8/10
adversity overcomance = 10/10
influence = 10/10
average = GOAT"
is he a great rapper or not? that's what im interested in.
Powerful.
Net_Wrecker
Member
First time I realized Wayne leveled up was when I heard his 1st verse on Neck of The Woods. Still like it, actually.
Discotheque
Banned
Same, his singles on thank me later were good but that marvins room track was amazing. Yeah sure it's simped as fuck but the production and the singing and the concept was good. I think it showed just how huge the dude was gonna be in the mainstream
I love take care though there is filler. I've liked everything drake has put out after thank me later but I think he has yet to release a tight album with little to no filler. Even NWTS needs to be trimmed up
Syph Medwes
Member
im gonna take that as a "no, that doesn't apply to kendrick since he definitely scores higher than 1/10 on bars" lol
didnt mean to not answer the question, i have that tendency,
Kendrick would have a higher score for bars, it was just hypothetical, haha, but it applies to him too, yes. if Kendrick or whoever thinking theyre above or beyond rap in some nebulous way, helps them to create great albums, cool... but youre still a rapper, and that shouldnt be seen as reductive. Embrace that shit. eg., Andre 3k was a rapper when he made Love Below.
this isnt meant to come off protectionist either. by all means, make the pot of hip-hop bigger and bigger, im fine with that, but dont bush-toss the bedrock terms like "MC", as some kind of a stat, you can choose to boost or not.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
Seeing Wayne in Bape just reminded me that him and Clipse were actually beefing over clothes haha
I still give him credit, look at when Jay came out with that skippidydippidy flow before he started biting BIG. Wayne owned his new style just like Jay did.
Fair point. The Carter 1 is still a good album regardless of the transition.
wild wild rice
Member
God damn I miss that Kendrick.
Well, firstly hip-hop is not just rap, I think production crossover has just as big of an effect on pop culture.
I want to hear you substantiate that point, like why you believe, say, in early 00s there was more crossover than current rap infusion in pop and electronica (where it has birthed a thriving new subgenre that gives rappers and producers from many different eras and styles a venue to eat). R&B and pop crossover existed before but has way more forms now, from more dirty and rap-saturated R&B to R&B finding its way into the rapping itself. With the internet making pretty much every fusion of anything accessible. Everything that's happened before is here now in a significant quantity, plus some, and I don't think it's been at such a height since pretty much the birth of the genre. Even the integration of R&B alone is a stark difference from years prior.
EDIT: Wait, we did this before in GAF-Hop, didn't we? Dat GAF-Hop cycle.
Storm Chamber
Banned
Loved Carter 1 and 2 but I can't deny this.
Can never say I hate the man though. Those old Cash Money days were integral to a young Storm Chamber's development
Don't know if posted but
Chief Keef ft Juicy J - What the fuck is yall on
Blast that joint on the whip and
Chief Keef ft Juicy J - What the fuck is yall on
Blast that joint on the whip and
Storm Chamber
Banned
Esch pls, your state still has yet to apologize for the St. Lunatics
Flex played about 30 seconds of 10 Bands by Q Miller and it's definitely a lot of Drake's verse.
Keeps turning it off after that, though. Not sure if it was the whole song or just some lines in the beginning.
This is crazy though. Flex said someone in OVO sent him the clip of Quentin. Goddamn.
Keeps turning it off after that, though. Not sure if it was the whole song or just some lines in the beginning.
This is crazy though. Flex said someone in OVO sent him the clip of Quentin. Goddamn.
my basic point is that it seems we can now gloss over a rapper's skill as a rapper, saying theyre somehow not beholden to having to rap well, for all-time-great consideration, by saying well he's an artist so, rapping skill would be preferable but not required. that isnt an option imo. drake, kdot, ye, whoever, no exceptions, no "well 808s and HBs had a lot of biters so that counts for something", no, not if were talking greats, it counts for fuck all.
All I Need won a Grammy in 1996, and these same discussions took place then. same shit, different year. i can see why someone would think it's different or less clearly defined in 2015, but it really isnt and plenty of musical examples exist to prove this point, examples from sub genres that are long dead and forgotten.
Rapper's Delight came out years before The Message, the whole genre of rap is based on a mash up of Reggae sound clash, disco, african music, and poetry. in ten years the crossovers will seem just as vague
All I Need won a Grammy in 1996, and these same discussions took place then. same shit, different year. i can see why someone would think it's different or less clearly defined in 2015, but it really isnt and plenty of musical examples exist to prove this point, examples from sub genres that are long dead and forgotten.
Rapper's Delight came out years before The Message, the whole genre of rap is based on a mash up of Reggae sound clash, disco, african music, and poetry. in ten years the crossovers will seem just as vague
CassidyIzABeast
Member
6 God
Glass Rebel
Member
that 10 bands reference track on flex D:
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