TLZ
Banned
I was going ask this. I've been tampering with my laptop and TV settings to get 444 4k 60hz but no avail, although it says TV can do it. So it's a 8 Vs 10 bit thing then?
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HDR 4k TV sets with lowest input lag?
- Thread starter Croatoan
- Start date
I was going ask this. I've been tampering with my laptop and TV settings to get 444 4k 60hz but no avail, although it says TV can do it. So it's a 8 Vs 10 bit thing then?
CrazyIvan1978
Member
There is another thread explaining HDR in detail, but the two most important things in the HDR standard is the TV's ability to show contrast between darkness and brightness (local dimming helps with darkness and a good backlight helps with brightness), the other is the color range (a 10-bit panel is better than an 8-bit one as it has wider color range.)
So, there may be support as Sony states, and it might look "better", at least different, but it will not be as spectacular as the more expensive models, as those have the ingredients needed for a better HDR experience.
bar mitzvah
Neo Member
Got the 65KS8000 all set up today. 4K game mode with dark souls 3 feels amazing and doesn't have any of the stutter that I experienced last time I owned this TV. I'm pretty damn happy.
The only thing left to solve is to figure out how to get 4:4:4 to recognize - I am running a 50ft hdmi cable, so I'm sure that is the issue. Eh - I'm just happy to have game mode working.
The only thing left to solve is to figure out how to get 4:4:4 to recognize - I am running a 50ft hdmi cable, so I'm sure that is the issue. Eh - I'm just happy to have game mode working.
I read somewhere that the KS8000 has a different number in Europe but on Amazon.co.uk it looks like the right TV for me? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FWENEKQ/
neogafdave
Neo Member
US KS8000 = UK KS7000
Seems like Amazon.co.uk has their description wrong. KS7000 listed as 1080p.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FWENDSO/
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FWENDSO/
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Can anyone confirm that the KS7000 does indeed work in game mode with HDR? I think Digital Foundry got it wrong, my mate is buying one, don't want to tell him the wrong thing.
Ravijn
Member
People should take into serious consideration screen uniformity of whatever set they are interested in buying.
Just going for 4K, HDR and low ms tickboxes isnt good enough.
I had some Samsung LED TVs that had just horrible horrible screen uniformity, and now being used to my Plasma TV, if I go back to those banding and torchlight issues I am not going to be a happy man.
IMO best thing to do atm is just wait 1 maybe even 2 years. All these new technologies need to reach a more refined stage.
Just going for 4K, HDR and low ms tickboxes isnt good enough.
I had some Samsung LED TVs that had just horrible horrible screen uniformity, and now being used to my Plasma TV, if I go back to those banding and torchlight issues I am not going to be a happy man.
IMO best thing to do atm is just wait 1 maybe even 2 years. All these new technologies need to reach a more refined stage.
oneils
Member
I'm guessing that's why you don't see much of a difference when it's enabled or not.
This will always be the best thing, but you will always miss out while playing the waiting game and there will always be something new technology wise. Decisions, decisions :-D
Barrel Cannon
Member
I was eyeing a TV for a while and just realized our price here is about 40% above even after conversion. I guess I'll just not buy a new TV. I don't support stupid price gouging.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
That TV would be the KS9000 in the US.
Dredd97
Member
http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-home-entertainment/televisions/televisions/samsung-ue49ku6470-smart-4k-ultra-hd-hdr-49-led-tv-10145825-pdt.html
I'm eyeing this one up GAffer's.. any opinions on whether it's a good set or not?
(I know it's not HDR10, but I'm happy with that)...
I'm eyeing this one up GAffer's.. any opinions on whether it's a good set or not?
(I know it's not HDR10, but I'm happy with that)...
Goose_Se7en
Banned
I agree.
I myself am very torn right now, it's so much research and reading that I've been doing and certain reviewers just recently started testing for input lag while in HDR mode. Although I want a KS8000 really bad (the 65inch model) I may hold off until the 2017 models. CES is just around the corner.
For those folks who keep questioning the KS8000 it recently got a firmware update that enables HDR sources in game mode and the input lag is 24.2 ms. In fact all 4K SUHD 2016 models got the firmware update.
Source: https://twitter.com/HDTVTest/status/773859278050516992
kylecoley182
Banned
Samsung UN40KU6300 40-Inch 4K Ultra HD Smart LED TV (2016 Model) found this on Amazon is this a good one ?
I'll wait exactly one year. next year september/october I want to buy one.
stranger79
Member
Listen to this man
Also keep in mind that really got HDR requires really got local dimming solutions, and so most edge lit LEDs won't cut it - for LEDs FALD is the way to go - or wait for the next generation of OLEDs
infinityBCRT
Member
I'm on the 4K UHD board. I don't think I've ever had a TV that does less than 60ms for input lag. And I think the way my TV is currently setup I get around 120ms input lag which is horrendus-- I noticed my PS3 (on HDMI3) told me I had way less input lag than my PS4 (on HDMI2) when calibrating Rock Band 3&4. It only hit me after discovering that different HDMI ports can have different latency (WHY?!?) that I probably need to hook up all of my gaming systems to my switcher on the HDMI3 port.
Anyway, If I'm dropping at least $1500 CDN for a TV (Vizio P) then I'll feel bad if it has 60ms of lag. I'm going to save up a little more and get the KS8000. And I think by the time I will have enough saved up towards it, it'll be superbowl time and the TV's should go on discount... or I could wait until April/May for the 2017 lineup. I guess the *only* real fear I have about buying now is maybe there will be an HDR12 standard or some sort of dynamic HDR10 standard that comes out that HDR10 TV's cannot be updated to do properly. Especially the KS8000 since it doesn't support Dolby Vision, who knows what type of processing power the dynamic metadata requires.
Anyway, If I'm dropping at least $1500 CDN for a TV (Vizio P) then I'll feel bad if it has 60ms of lag. I'm going to save up a little more and get the KS8000. And I think by the time I will have enough saved up towards it, it'll be superbowl time and the TV's should go on discount... or I could wait until April/May for the 2017 lineup. I guess the *only* real fear I have about buying now is maybe there will be an HDR12 standard or some sort of dynamic HDR10 standard that comes out that HDR10 TV's cannot be updated to do properly. Especially the KS8000 since it doesn't support Dolby Vision, who knows what type of processing power the dynamic metadata requires.
Sort of agree. After a ton of research we seem to be quite early. Honestly didnt realize how 'new' things were. I recently went from a plasma to a KS8000 and out of the box I thought I made a mistake. Things were a bit washed out and the smart LED was annoying. However, after getting it setup and tuned, and turning the smart LED down to low, I have zero complaints. Paired with my K8500 UHD player I couldnt be happier.
The author of that article mixed up HDR with HDR+.
HDR works with Game Mode. HDR+ does not. And that doesn't matter, because you shouldn't be using HDR+ with native HDR content anyway.
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
that blows. Why would they say its hdr and not actually hdr. 
I'd like to share my experience with the LG OLED65C6P and the Samsung 65KS8000 (US). I've had both for a few days now and was anticipating returning the one I didn't want to keep.
LG OLED65C6P
Absolutely amazing picture. Seriously jaw dropping. No matter the resolution or source, movies, tv, games (pc/console). So why am I returning it?
- Game Mode Input Lag (without HDR) is around 34ms. For people that don't really get into competitive multiplayer games this is totally sufficient. Unfortunately, when sniping in 60fps games like Star Wars: Battlefront that amount of lag becomes quite noticeable It's not necessarily a deal breaker but when I'm spending this much and anticipate having the set for 5+ years I want input lag to be as minimal as possible (in the low 20s would be great).
- Can't enable HDR in Game Mode. This means that it's simply not future proof for gamers that play a lot of mp games. Pretty much all games coming out past November will likely have HDR so if you want to use it you'd be stuck with ~51ms of input lag. This is the real deal breaker for me.
To be fair, this may get added in a firmware update in the coming weeks like Samsung and Panasonic did but LG has been silent so far. That said, even if they do add it I'm still on the fence about the non-HDR Game Mode input lag of 34ms.
Samsung 65KS8000 (US)
Picture quality is pretty good but certainly not jaw dropping like the OLED. Input lag is unnoticeable for me in Game Mode and as HDR can be enabled in Game Mode the set is essentially future proof in that regard. The negatives:
- My set has a distracting amount of light bleed along the entire top and bottom of the set. A certain amount is to be expected in an edge-list LED but it's far more than my previous edge-lit LED (Sony KDL-55W900A). Some KS800's are better than others in this regard but I have not interest in taking my chances with an exchange as it could be better or worse.
- Lots of light clouding in dark scenes. More so than my previous edge-lit LED. God help you if you're watching or playing something with black bars. Screen uniformity as well is disappointing.
My Recommendation
If you can wait till next year you'll likely see the 2017 OLEDs with lower input lag (with and without HDR enabled) as well as prices $500–1000 less than this year. If you're looking more at the mid range of TVs then I don't see any reason to not just pick up a Samsung KS8000 as it's certainly good enough as long as you don't mind light bleed and clouding.
Personally, I'm going to wait until CES in January. By then LG we should know whether LG plans to add an HDR Game Mode to their 2016 TVs and we'll also find out if they'll putting any effort into lowering input lag for their 2017 series. We'll also see if Samsung can improve the light bleed, clouding, and contrast. Perhaps offering a full-array backlit TV at a better price.
Bottom line is that OLED picture quality is truly that much more impressive than everything else currently out right now but too bad about the input lag.
LG OLED65C6P
Absolutely amazing picture. Seriously jaw dropping. No matter the resolution or source, movies, tv, games (pc/console). So why am I returning it?
- Game Mode Input Lag (without HDR) is around 34ms. For people that don't really get into competitive multiplayer games this is totally sufficient. Unfortunately, when sniping in 60fps games like Star Wars: Battlefront that amount of lag becomes quite noticeable It's not necessarily a deal breaker but when I'm spending this much and anticipate having the set for 5+ years I want input lag to be as minimal as possible (in the low 20s would be great).
- Can't enable HDR in Game Mode. This means that it's simply not future proof for gamers that play a lot of mp games. Pretty much all games coming out past November will likely have HDR so if you want to use it you'd be stuck with ~51ms of input lag. This is the real deal breaker for me.
To be fair, this may get added in a firmware update in the coming weeks like Samsung and Panasonic did but LG has been silent so far. That said, even if they do add it I'm still on the fence about the non-HDR Game Mode input lag of 34ms.
Samsung 65KS8000 (US)
Picture quality is pretty good but certainly not jaw dropping like the OLED. Input lag is unnoticeable for me in Game Mode and as HDR can be enabled in Game Mode the set is essentially future proof in that regard. The negatives:
- My set has a distracting amount of light bleed along the entire top and bottom of the set. A certain amount is to be expected in an edge-list LED but it's far more than my previous edge-lit LED (Sony KDL-55W900A). Some KS800's are better than others in this regard but I have not interest in taking my chances with an exchange as it could be better or worse.
- Lots of light clouding in dark scenes. More so than my previous edge-lit LED. God help you if you're watching or playing something with black bars. Screen uniformity as well is disappointing.
My Recommendation
If you can wait till next year you'll likely see the 2017 OLEDs with lower input lag (with and without HDR enabled) as well as prices $500–1000 less than this year. If you're looking more at the mid range of TVs then I don't see any reason to not just pick up a Samsung KS8000 as it's certainly good enough as long as you don't mind light bleed and clouding.
Personally, I'm going to wait until CES in January. By then LG we should know whether LG plans to add an HDR Game Mode to their 2016 TVs and we'll also find out if they'll putting any effort into lowering input lag for their 2017 series. We'll also see if Samsung can improve the light bleed, clouding, and contrast. Perhaps offering a full-array backlit TV at a better price.
Bottom line is that OLED picture quality is truly that much more impressive than everything else currently out right now but too bad about the input lag.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
I would definitely wait for HDMI 2.1 if you're going all in with HDR.
Beer Monkey
Member
Yep, that's right where I'm at. Sticking with my 1080p Kuro plasma until there's an HDR set with low gaming lag and true uniformity.
bar mitzvah
Neo Member
Ah - got it. No problem. Just played a few matches of Street Fighter V on this in 4K to see how the input lag fares. I play a LOT of this game, so I'd notice if I started dropping combos. Felt great. Also tried Devil May Cry and some other games with immediate feedback. I'm floored.
So my work has an employee discount program with samsung where you can get the KS8000 for $1480 and the curved version for $1450. I have four invites if anyone was on the fence of buying it and wants to save ~400. I'll need your email address to send it to.
PM sent. Much appreciated if you still have one.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
So my work has an employee discount program with samsung where you can get the KS8000 for $1480 and the curved version for $1450. I have four invites if anyone was on the fence of buying it and wants to save ~400. I'll need your email address to send it to.
Helluva deal, this will certainly put me over the edge to finally buying it. PMed!
KoolAidPitcher
Member
In general, the Samsung KS8000 is the best 2016 set for gaming-- especially cinsidering input lag. The input lag DOES increase with 4K HDR; however, in a firmware update Samsung has begun allowing game mode with these settings to improve things.
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I hope Sony makes a comeback with their low lag TVs next year.
I have a Sony KDL I bought in March 2015 that is around 20ms of input lag and feels fantastic. I'm not going to settle for anything over 24ms when I upgrade.
60", 4K, OLED at 24ms or under with HDR enabled is going to be tough to find :-(
(Does this even exist yet?)
No one knows until CES but it is a pretty good assumption. They could also add dolby vision support which is lacking in the 2016 model. In general though next year's TVs will always be better than this year's.
Are you sure? I've owned two 4k hdr sets and with both of them, 10 bit became unselectable in nvidia control panel once 444 was enabled at 4k 60hz.
Square Triangle
Member
I just bought the Samsung 65KS8000 and lovvveeee it
Darryl M R
Member
So does Sony 800D support 10bit? For the price I'm leaning more towards that TV especially if I'll update again in 2-3 years.
LG holds a patent that makes it really hard to sell them at an affordable price in the US. Philips and Panasonic sell OLED internationally and there are rumors they might introduce high end models in the US next year but it looks liek LG is going to be the main player until someone else figures out a new manufacturing technique.
Shit
yes
No TV's tested under 4k so far are below 36ms input lag.
99% tests out there are for 1080p mode that leo bondar test can do, it cant do 4k.
I found some polish HDTV magazine that writes their tests in forums. But these are all without HDR right now. I expect many sites to start updating their tests for 4K HDR once games are out in next month or two. Polish said they will re-test their current screens with HDR in that time too.
https://hdtvpolska.com/forum/topic/...i-jak-duże-ma-rogi-baza-input-lag-telewizory/
Dodałem info jak mierzymy laga przy Ultra HD oraz aktualna lista (którą dodam w pierwszym poście):
Samsung KS8000 21 ms / Ultra HD 39 ms
Samsung KS9000 21 ms / Ultra HD 40 ms
Philips PFS5501/PFH5501 24 ms / Ultra HD 36 ms
Philips PUS6401 29 ms / Ultra HD 56 ms
Philips PUS6561 35 ms / Ultra HD 56 ms
Philips PUS6501 35 ms / Ultra HD 67 ms
Panasonic DX900 35 ms / Ultra HD 52 ms
Sony XD93 35 ms / Ultra HD 59 ms
Panasonic DX800 42 ms / Ultra HD 54 ms
Panasonic DX750 44 ms / Ultra HD 56 ms
LG UH8507/850V 45 ms / Ultra HD 50 ms
Panasonic DX700 52 ms / Ultra HD 64 ms
LG UH7707 57 ms / Ultra HD 54 ms
These are with NO HDR. Expect slighly or much worse with HDR, depending on set.
So when people tell you their new TV does 20ms and is great, tell them it is doing 40+ ms and is still a great TV.
In fact, what we are going to see is that cheaper sets with less picture enhancements will do better. For instance the best is PFS5501, which is very barebones as much as I know.
So input lag should not be only reason to buy TV. For instance, Eurogamer preffered Panny DX750 which likely has over 60ms with HDR enabled. They did not notice it. But what you will likely notice is better picture when tvs have some enhancements turned on under game mode vs barebones.
I expect tests to clear this up by December.
Per the latest testing on RTINGS the KS8000 has an input lag of 21.1ms in 4k HDR in game mode.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag
Hopefully this puts to rest the concerns that I and others had about the TV as far as input lag goes.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag
Hopefully this puts to rest the concerns that I and others had about the TV as far as input lag goes.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Worth noting that the latency is 37ms when in 4:4:4 (PC) mode + game mode + HDR.
bar mitzvah
Neo Member
I'm glad Rtings is keeping up with this. It seems like most sets will be good in using Xbox One S (and probably PS4 Pro) since the Xbox One S uses 4:2:0.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
I have 3 invites for Perk At Work which gives you the 65" KS8000 for $1479+tax. Shoot me a PM with your email and you'll get an invite.
bar mitzvah
Neo Member
Wait 1479? Did they raise the price?
scottXplosion
Member
PM sent
From the Slickdeals thread it sounded like it was 1379, they went out of stock, then it came back at 1479. Still probably the best price you will find until Black Friday, maybe longer if the PS4 Pro drives demand up for it.