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"I Need a New PC!" 2014 Part 2. Read OP, your 2500K will run Witcher 3. MX100s! 970!

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M

mkenyon

Banned
kharma45 said:
The budget dream is alive.
Click to expand...
Intel will patch it out.
Durante said:
If you want to build a really cheap gaming system and are comfortable with heavily OCing it looks like good value.

It obviously can't rival an i7.
Click to expand...
Depends in what context. If you play Dota 2, CS:GO, LoL, UE3 games, some MMOs, and TF2 for 95% of your game time, saving $160 on the CPU for a better GPU or just money in your pocket is an amazing proposition. I really want to get one on a test bench and compare.

Hazaro and I were whining about the lack of an unlocked i3 last night, and he jokingly pointed out that the reason they likely haven't released one is that it would literally put AMD out of business. So it's self preservation to avoid anti-trust laws.

That's right folks, not only should we be disappointed in AMD for gaming processor performance, but it's their fault there isn't an unlocked i3.

I kid. Mostly.
SalsaShark said:
you know I have a question i've never really gotten an answer to and just ignored

how normal is it for your guys' monitors to be kinda fuzzy/display some sort of barely noticeable noise in certain colors? in my case some dark greys and blues?

im using a dvi to hdmi adaptor but it's the same with just hdmi, so it cant be an analog signal type issue
Click to expand...
It's either the display cable, the power cable, or just the quality of the power (from the wall) in general.
 
D

Durante

Member
TheD said:
I would of thought that you would know about committing memory and how that without a page/swap file Windows will act (when you start to push the amount of RAM you are using, but still a good amount off full) as if there is no more free RAM, bar there being a fair chunk left due to Windows requiring a physical backing for all the virtual memory it is committing to programs (bar them not really using all the virtual memory they are malloc~ing).

If you are going to use most to nearly all of your RAM, you are going to need a page file.
Click to expand...
Believe me, I know a lot about memory management.

And that's why I say with confidence that everyone should turn off their page file if they have enough memory.
(And if they don't, getting enough memory would be a very worthwhile upgrade)

riflen said:
This is true. Unfortunately, no matter how much physical memory you have, you're dancing to the tune of the Windows memory manager.
Now, if you have a lot of RAM (12GB+ is lots for a games PC), then you may not ever experience a problem from not having a page file, but you're not gaining much by it either.
Click to expand...
You are gaining quite a bit, particularly because of the Windows memory manager's preference for proactively swapping.

Personally I have noticed reduced (sometimes significantly so) re-opening times in programs I hadn't had open for a longer period.
 
T

TheD

The Detective
Durante said:
Believe me, I know a lot about memory management.

And that's why I say with confidence that everyone should turn off their page file if they have enough memory.
(And if they don't, getting enough memory would be a very worthwhile upgrade)

You are gaining quite a bit, particularly because of the Windows memory manager's preference for proactively swapping.

Personally I have noticed reduced (sometimes significantly so) re-opening times in programs I hadn't had open for a longer period.
Click to expand...

Not everyone can afford to buy enough memory so that you never have problems with running out of physically backed VM space though (for me that would likely mean buying 32GB for $400!) and in that case I would prefer to suffer some swapping and use all 16GB of RAM in my PC instead of 12 and a bit.
 
R

Reven

Member
Hey Hazaro, looks like you forgot to update the notes for the CPU in the build sheet to reflect Devils Canyon.
 
M

Menome

Member
Hey guys, looking to upgrade my graphics card this year before the October Wall of Games™. I currently have a 1GB Geforce GTX 560Ti which has been holding its own for the past few years, but is starting to show its age slightly with newer titles.

I've been looking at this: LINK which is just outside of my £250 budget, but does come with a free download of Watch Dogs which I haven't picked up yet, so it evens itself out. Is that a good higher-end card to go for right now?

I'm going 4GB-single GPU so that I'm future-proofed for this generation, it's got the GDDR5 memory and 256-bit memory bus I was told to look out for elsewhere, but I want to make sure I'm not getting a card that's been noted to have problems outside of review sites (I'm also sticking with Nvidia due to personal preference).

Also, I'm currently running 8GB of Corsair DDR3 RAM, so I'm okay on that front but wondering if my CPU is at risk of bottlenecking things; it's an Intel i5-3750k 3.4Ghz. Is that still good to keep going for at least another couple of years?

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
S

Smokey

Member
S0cc3rpunk said:
Wow!! that's really awesome, my budget is around $500 to $600 :) and my resolution is 1360X768 i wanna run the new upcoming games.


Thanks for this :) my budget is around $500 to $600
Click to expand...

I'd honestly take the budget you have and invest that into a good 1080p monitor. That will make an immediate noticeable difference for you. Check out some of the ones in the OP.

For some context with your budget you could get a 1080p 120hz monitor and a mid-high end card from the B/S/T thread. Your gaming life will forever be changed.
 
R

riflen

Member
Durante said:
Believe me, I know a lot about memory management.

And that's why I say with confidence that everyone should turn off their page file if they have enough memory.
(And if they don't, getting enough memory would be a very worthwhile upgrade)

You are gaining quite a bit, particularly because of the Windows memory manager's preference for proactively swapping.

Personally I have noticed reduced (sometimes significantly so) re-opening times in programs I hadn't had open for a longer period.
Click to expand...

I couldn't determine any improvements myself, but it's going to be somewhat dependent on use case. Also all my storage is solid state, so Windows' proclivity for caching may not have much impact and opening and re-opening programmes is not exactly sluggish. <shrug>

I have definitely experienced application crashes due to low memory when running without a page file though. With 16GB RAM (effectively 12GB, as I use 4GB as RAM disk), I managed to get Wolfenstein:TNO to consume over 6GB of system memory itself by running at bonkers resolution and using uncompressed textures (screenshotting!). I still had physical memory free (several GBs), so the crashes were confusing, until I researched how Windows likes to manage its memory.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Gotta run today, will field more answers later.
kennah said:
Intel is trying to bury AMD with this chip
Click to expand...
Naw, I talked to someone about this.
See, if Intel releases an i3 unlocked with 4 threads for $120... AMD actually just goes out of business and Intel gets hit with monopoly suits. So Intel CANT release an unlocked i3 because of AMD. RIPPPP

*goddaming mkenyon
 
D

Dio Brando

Banned
a question i'm having these days: is it necessary to move Firefox or chrome cache folders out of a SSD?

Durante said:
Believe me, I know a lot about memory management.

And that's why I say with confidence that everyone should turn off their page file if they have enough memory.
(And if they don't, getting enough memory would be a very worthwhile upgrade)

You are gaining quite a bit, particularly because of the Windows memory manager's preference for proactively swapping.

Personally I have noticed reduced (sometimes significantly so) re-opening times in programs I hadn't had open for a longer period.
Click to expand...
Interesting. i have 16gb of ram. should i disable it then?
 
L

LilJoka

Member
Dio Brando said:
a question i'm having these days: is it necessary to move Firefox or chrome cache folders out of a SSD?


Interesting. i have 16gb of ram. should i disable it then?
Click to expand...

No, as some programs need the page file. Just reduce the size to 4Gb or something. Windows uses a default size of 1.5x your ram, and thats not needed with more than 8GB ram.
 
D

Durante

Member
Dio Brando said:
Interesting. i have 16gb of ram. should i disable it then?
Click to expand...
If you never use more than ~12 GB of it, then yes, absolutely.

LilJoka said:
No, as some programs need the page file.
Click to expand...
That's a myth. Well, not completely a myth, but very much overstated. I run more different programs and games on my home PC than anyone I know, and in 5 years without a swap file I've found exactly one program which needed it -- or actually, thought it needed it, since when you disabled its check for the presence of a swap file it worked just fine.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Yep. Been running without a page file on every single one of the workstations here at work, the server at work, and all of my home PCs for a few years. Haven't ran into an issue yet.
 
M

Mister Negative

Member
Hey guys, I'm in the middle of my build and I have a couple of questions:

1) there's a sticker on the back of my mobo. Should that be removed?

2) on my case, there seems to be one standoff right in the middle that doesn't seem like it can be removed, and instead of a hole like the other standoffs, it has a post sticking up. What's the deal with that one? it looks like it will come in contact with my mobo.

For reference, my mobo is an MSI Z87-G41 PC mate, and my case is a corsair 200R.

Edit: nevermind, figured out question 2. The permanent one went into the mobo and the temporary one next to it got removed. What about the sticker?
 
S

Smokey

Member
http://www.techpowerup.com/201936/intel-desktop-cpu-roadmap-updated.html

Intel's presentation for Italian technology conference 3D Revolution 2014 was leaked to the web, revealing the company's most up-to-date desktop CPU roadmap, which looks deep into 2015. It reveals a wealth of new information. To begin with the HEDT (high-end desktop) segment, Intel plans to drag Core i7 "Ivy Bridge-E" through Q3-2014, and launch its succeeding Core i7 "Haswell-E" processor close to Q4-2014, or late into Q3, which would pin its launch some time in September 2014. "Haswell-E" is built in the new socket LGA2011-3 package, and is supported exclusively by Intel X99 Express chipset. It also heralds DDR4 memory to the consumer space. "Haswell-E" will have its reign till late-Q3 2015, when Intel plans to launch Core i7 "Broadwell-E," which is built in the same package, and supported by the same X99 platform, but based on a swanky new 14 nm silicon.

Things get interesting with the company's mainline desktop processors. Intel recently launched its "Haswell" Refresh silicon, and is bound to launch their unlocked variants, codenamed "Devil's Canyon," on the 25th of June. Built in the LGA1150 package, "Haswell" Refresh runs on both 8-series and 9-series chipset. Intel's 9-series chipset was originally designed to launch alongside the company's first processors built on the 14 nm silicon fab process, codenamed "Broadwell," which is an optical shrink of "Haswell," with a few minor tweaks and speed bumps, just as "Ivy Bridge" was to "Sandy Bridge." Intel's "Broadwell" chips are now expected to debut in Q1-2015, probably along the sidelines of the 2015 International CES. These chips will be supported by existing LGA1150 motherboards, some with BIOS updates.

In mid-2015, probably around the same time as Computex 2015, Intel plans to debut its next-generation Core "Skylake" processors. Notice that "Skylake" launches less than six months apart from "Broadwell." It looks like Intel will launch unlocked "K" series parts of "Broadwell" in Q1, but reserve unlocked "K" series "Skylake" chips for 2016, so overclockers are stuck with "Broadwell." It's also important to note that just as every new micro-architecture heralds a new CPU socket, "Skylake" will bring with it the new LGA1151 socket, which is incompatible with LGA1150.
Click to expand...
 
L

LilJoka

Member
LordAlu said:
This. How long until they do... that's anybody's guess! But when they do, it will be some form of forced update similar to when they did it for Ivy Bridge.
Click to expand...

Yes a BIOS Flash, which you dont need to do.
Later boards may come with the locked BIOS pre installed.
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
So my Brother is finally ready to upgrade his HD6850 and has asked me to ask here for a recommendation.

Specs:

i5 4570 @stock
8GB Crucial Ballistix
1TB WB Blue HDD
Gigabyte GA-Z87-HD3 MOBO

Mostly plays WoW and also games like Tomb Raider, Crysis, Grid/Dirt etc.

All he really wants over and above his current GPU is the ability to play the above games in Ultra with a boost in framerate @1080P.

Have had a quick look and am thinking this has good bang for the buck:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00FRU9P9U/

Cheers.
 
L

Lomax

Member
Reading the discussion on the page file made me go poke around my system some and while I don't think I have enough ram to get rid of my page file (only 8 gb and I'm a big fan of running a million things at once), I did discover that if I disable hibernation which I never use, I'd free up 6 gb of space that file was taking up, so thanks :)
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
I'm thinking Broadwell-E will come out at the right time for me. Of course that's so far out that it could be delayed or moved up depending on what happens.
 
J

JackHerer

Member
Smokey said:
:(

So October at the earliest for X99 ughhh
Click to expand...

This is my quandary at the moment as well. Should I wait for X99 and DDR4 or should I just go with Devil's Canyon now on a currently available board and upgrade in a year or two.

I'm having trouble convincing myself to wait to build my PC. I am also waiting for the Acer 4K G-Sync monitor to come out but no word on that yet.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Smokey said:
:(

So October at the earliest for X99 ughhh
Click to expand...
Yeah. You should probably just go ahead and do DC or IVB-E. If the need to upgrade is strong (which it probably won't be) then sell and upgrade.

If you want SATA express and M.2, go DC. If it's not that big of a deal, go IVB-E.
THE:MILKMAN said:
So my Brother is finally ready to upgrade his HD6850 and has asked me to ask here for a recommendation.

Specs:

i5 4570 @stock
8GB Crucial Ballistix
1TB WB Blue HDD
Gigabyte GA-Z87-HD3 MOBO

Mostly plays WoW and also games like Tomb Raider, Crysis, Grid/Dirt etc.

All he really wants over and above his current GPU is the ability to play the above games in Ultra with a boost in framerate @1080P.

Have had a quick look and am thinking this has good bang for the buck:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00FRU9P9U/

Cheers.
Click to expand...
WoW is really processor dependent, so the slowdowns and chugs won't be solved with a new GPU. The 270x is definitely a decent upgrade, but it's not a huge one.
Monosukoi said:
Wondering whether or not to jump on this deal:

http://www.dabs.com/learnmore/components-and-storage/asus-z97-motherboard-k-series-cashback/

Given that DC is seemingly underwhelming. I already have my RAM and case, my monitor is arriving on Monday, and my SSD is coming in the next few days as well. Or should I just hold onto that stuff for another few weeks? I guess that's the logical choice.. but I wanna build! D:
Click to expand...
Sure, go for it.

I'd say the big upside to DC is that you don't even have to touch BIOS in order to get it running at 4.2 GHz 24/7. If that's not really a concern, then jump on it.
Cuban Legend said:
broadwell is the 6c/12t and 8c super-enthusiast $500 USD+ CPu's right? If so, I don't see myself spending $500+ on a CPU in the future...

So, then no need for me to buy a Z97 Mobo (ie ASUS MAximus VII Impact if it's only for future Broadwell support) if a Maximus VI Impact (Z87) can OK a 4790K, amirite GAF?
Click to expand...
If you mean Haswell-E, yes, kind of. They always have a SKU that is the same price as the consumer socket i7 that is similar. However, with Haswell-E, the lower priced SKU is supposed to be a 6C/12T proc ($330 or so), whereas the $500+ will be either 6C/12T or 8C/16T, and the top dog at $1000 will definitely be a 8C/16T. Plus DDR4.
 
Cuban Legend

Cuban Legend

Member
mkenyon said:
If you mean Haswell-E, yes, kind of. They always have a SKU that is the same price as the consumer socket i7 that is similar. However, with Haswell-E, the lower priced SKU is supposed to be a 6C/12T proc ($330 or so), whereas the $500+ will be either 6C/12T or 8C/16T, and the top dog at $1000 will definitely be a 8C/16T. Plus DDR4.
Click to expand...

riflen said:
No, that's Haswell-E. Broadwell will be the Haswell process shrink from 22 to 14nm, so pretty boring all told.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Trying to find out if I really need to spend $250 on a ASUS Maximum Impact VII (Z97) vs Impact VI (Z87) if I'm not going to be upgrading to Broadwell in the future. I thought Broadwell was Haswell-E (super expensive CPUs with 6/8C) but it seems I was mistaken.

What other benefits do the Z97's have over Z87's? And what future CPUs would they support? Are they worth the future-proofing?

I need to find a colorful roadmap chart with socket compatibility and whatnot added to it. This stuff can be confusing.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
MoFoJones99 said:
I just set my eyes on the Samsung 840 EVO 250GB drive. Any reason to get that over the Crucial MX100?
Click to expand...
If you have a ton of RAM, then it has a RAMDisk utility that stores often used data on your memory for ultra fast seek time and transfer speeds. But, $200 for a 500GB drive is too stupid good to pass up, IMO.
Cuban Legend said:
Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Trying to find out if I really need to spend $250 on a ASUS Maximum Impact VII (Z97) vs Impact VI (Z87) if I'm not going to be upgrading to Broadwell in the future. I thought Broadwell was Haswell-E (super expensive CPUs with 6/8C) but it seems I was mistaken.

What other benefits do the Z97's have over Z87's? And what future CPUs would they support? Are they worth the future-proofing?

I need to find a colorful roadmap chart with socket compatibility and whatnot added to it. This stuff can be confusing.
Click to expand...
Intel seems to switch things up every time they release something, so roadmaps aren't anything to go by.

They have said Z97s will support Broadwell, but chances are Broadwell won't be a significant upgrade over Haswell. Just as Haswell wasn't a significant upgrade over Ivy (and in some respects, a downgrade), and just as Ivy wasn't a huge upgrade over Sandy.

The benefits of Z97 boards are SATA Express (faster SATA speeds) and M.2 SATA (plug a SSD right into the board itself with fast transfer speeds). If I'm not mistaken though, the Maximus VI already has an M.2 SATA slot, so it's almost certainly not worth upgrading.
 
M

Moskitokrebs

Member
michaelius said:
Asus PB298Q is 29" 21:9 screen. What it means it will have height and pixel size of 23" 1080p display.

If you are looking for viable alternatives you need to decide what you want first because you can choose from:

29" 21:9 IPS displays like that asus
27" 1080 IPS or MVA screens (for MVA good one is Asus VN279Q or Benq 2760HS)
27" 1440p screens - most of them will be above budget but Asus PB278Q or Aoc q2770Pqu should be close
27" 1080p 120 Hz TNs for best motion performance
Click to expand...

thankyou for your answer, i may grab the Asus VN279Q(I like it how it looks).
 
M

Mister Negative

Member
Okay, so I'm installing windows 8.1 and I think I might have fucked up. It told me to unplug the "external C: drive" to continue, so I unplugged my HDD, since it's usually labeled C. When I did that, the warning didn't go away. So I re-plugged in the HDD and took out the thumb drive I was using to install, and that made the warning go away. But when the computer restarted, it just kind of hung up at my mobo splash screen. So I did a hard reset, and it told me that windows shut down unexpectedly and to press okay to restart. So I pressed okay, and got the same message.

Did I fuck up?

Edit: okay, turns out I just entered my product key incorrectly when I got back to that screen. Now my hard drive is showing four partitions. Should I delete them?
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Mister Negative said:
Okay, so I'm installing windows 8.1 and I think I might have fucked up. It told me to unplug the "external C: drive" to continue, so I unplugged my HDD, since it's usually labeled C. When I did that, the warning didn't go away. So I re-plugged in the HDD and took out the thumb drive I was using to install, and that made the warning go away. But when the computer restarted, it just kind of hung up at my mobo splash screen. So I did a hard reset, and it told me that windows shut down unexpectedly and to press okay to restart. So I pressed okay, and got the same message.

Did I fuck up?
Click to expand...
Just reinstall. 8 minutes :p
 
O

ohblahitsme

Member
Your Current Specs: Intel i7 / 4GB / Motherboard: Dunno / Intel HD 4000 / PSU (Power Supply): Dunno / Case: It's a laptop / 240GB
Budget: $400, US
Main Use: Rate 1-5. 5 being Highest: Light Gaming - 3, Gaming - 5, Emulation (PS2/Wii) - 1, Video Editing - 0, Streaming games in HD - 3, 3D/Model work (and what program) - 0, General Usage (Word, Web, 1080p playback) - 3.
Monitor Resolution: 720p
List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: 30 FPS is just fine for me (60 would be great though!) I want to run The Witcher 2 at something higher than the lowest settings.
Looking to reuse any parts?: Nope
When will you build?: Do you have a deadline? End of the summer
Will you be overclocking?: I suppose so!
 
M

Mister Negative

Member
mkenyon said:
Just reinstall. 8 minutes :p
Click to expand...

Haha, I went to reinstall and it was telling me my product key was wrong. I thought since I had already used it I couldnt use it again or something. Turns out I entered it wrong.

Back at the "select a hard drive to install to" part, and my HDD is showing four partitions. Do I delete them? I assume they're left over from the previous install attempt.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
ohblahitsme said:
Your Current Specs: Intel i7 / 4GB / Motherboard: Dunno / Intel HD 4000 / PSU (Power Supply): Dunno / Case: It's a laptop / 240GB
Budget: $400, US
Main Use: Rate 1-5. 5 being Highest: Light Gaming - 3, Gaming - 5, Emulation (PS2/Wii) - 1, Video Editing - 0, Streaming games in HD - 3, 3D/Model work (and what program) - 0, General Usage (Word, Web, 1080p playback) - 3.
Monitor Resolution: 720p
List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: 30 FPS is just fine for me (60 would be great though!) I want to run The Witcher 2 at something higher than the lowest settings.
Looking to reuse any parts?: Nope
When will you build?: Do you have a deadline? End of the summer
Will you be overclocking?: I suppose so!
Click to expand...
$400 is a bit tough. You'll need to up that price a bit to be able to put something together, unless you can snag some used parts off craigslist or from friends.
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
mkenyon said:
WoW is really processor dependent, so the slowdowns and chugs won't be solved with a new GPU. The 270x is definitely a decent upgrade, but it's not a huge one.
Click to expand...

Cheers mate. I'll let him know, but given no constraints, what GPU would you get with the specs he's got?
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
ohblahitsme said:
Your Current Specs: Intel i7 / 4GB / Motherboard: Dunno / Intel HD 4000 / PSU (Power Supply): Dunno / Case: It's a laptop / 240GB
Budget: $400, US
Main Use: Rate 1-5. 5 being Highest: Light Gaming - 3, Gaming - 5, Emulation (PS2/Wii) - 1, Video Editing - 0, Streaming games in HD - 3, 3D/Model work (and what program) - 0, General Usage (Word, Web, 1080p playback) - 3.
Monitor Resolution: 720p
List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: 30 FPS is just fine for me (60 would be great though!) I want to run The Witcher 2 at something higher than the lowest settings.
Looking to reuse any parts?: Nope
When will you build?: Do you have a deadline? End of the summer
Will you be overclocking?: I suppose so!
Click to expand...

Is it possible for you to save about another $150-200? $550-600 can get you a real decent low end gaming PC.
 
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