Haunted
Member
He's talking technical specs. The jump is demonstrably smaller (and certainly not 10x).
It doesn't really matter that most people are perceiving it as being smaller as well (diminishing returns etc etc).
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Is something wrong with me? I'm not impressed by this generation.
- Thread starter Fredrik
- Start date
It doesn't really matter that most people are perceiving it as being smaller as well (diminishing returns etc etc).
I'm just replied what I have seen in second son is a notable jump to the same game on ps3 whatever is the number of times of the raw power of the ps4 compared ps3.Keep in mind not mean that much to have 10x timed or less of raw power.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
If it can't possibly do it hardware-wise.. then yea, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Deep Down E3 footage
Star Wars 1313
Unreal Engine 3 Samaritan tech demo
FF Agnus
Unreal 4 Infiltrator demo
Unreal 4 Elemental demo
MightyHedgehog
Member
I own all of the next-gen systems and I agree with the OP, in general. First part of a new gen is definitely not impressive, as is somewhat typical. Try looking at a year one list of software for any given platform and it becomes clear that it's not a accurate measure of what's possible on the platforms later in their lifespans. Still, the software is too familiar and too last-gen. People cream their jeans over the visuals in Infamous: SS or Killzone: SF or Ryse, but the games are straight last-gen transplants in terms of gameplay experience. I'd say that there's definitely a lack of next-gen ambition that goes well beyond the old gameplay on offer so far, but it is early days. If you're not feeling it, then the best idea is to simply wait until there's more worthy stuff in the future as next-gen, right now, is mostly hype and talk.
Wait a minute you said people barely perceive the difference between second son & infamous 2? You kidding me, right? I assure to you most of the casual gamers I know are completely astonished to second son .
TheSpoiler
Member
This is true, and while it's a port (and that could be a huge argument against my case), I believe Yakuza to carry some next-gen elements in the gameplay.
You can save anywhere, the fight transition is much more dynamic, and there's a buttload of content that pushes the PS3 hardware and lives beautifully on the PS4 (dat 60 FPS). These are small, but the evolution is there.
The performance of a $500 GTX 780 isn't much different than a Titan (and there will also be a 6GB version at $550 to cover the VRAM difference). It's also the case that a 7800 was supposed to be more comparable to the actual GPUs in the consoles last-gen; a 780 / Titan just smacks them this time around in theoretical power. I think this time, a $150-$200 GPU is more comparable (R7 265, or around that area), which is more obtainable than that $400 7800 many years ago.
star wars was cancelled. Wait for the next ND game or the new star wars from visceral to compare.
Deep down had a downgrade yes but then its also been pushed back to try and get it upto the required levels so wait for an updated build.
The others are tech demos .... Comparing tech demos and expecting game of that quality straight away is not realistic ... I think there are some insane ray casting or some other far fetched tech demos from 5 years back which we havent even matched. Also for the unreal demos didnt epic say they wanted a 2.5 tf next gen. They got a 1.8 ( 1.3 on xbone) so obviously there will be scale backs.
Why is the main argument in this thread about Infamous 2 vs. Infamous Second Son? Why is a game from early 2011 being presented as the epitome of what the PS3 was capable of?
I haven't touched my console in a long time, but shouldn't we be comparing more recent games? What about GTA 5, Halo 4, The Last of Us, etc.?
Would Battlefield 4 or Assassins Creed 4 be more valid comparisons, since they are extremely late-release last-gen games, and therefore we could at least maybe presume that they are the extent of what those systems can push?
I haven't touched my console in a long time, but shouldn't we be comparing more recent games? What about GTA 5, Halo 4, The Last of Us, etc.?
Would Battlefield 4 or Assassins Creed 4 be more valid comparisons, since they are extremely late-release last-gen games, and therefore we could at least maybe presume that they are the extent of what those systems can push?
Ok care to explain to me what it has to do pure teraflops to handle ue4 now? Because saying so, it seems ps360 has more chance to handle it.
this has been discussed someone even posted a sequence of end of gen vs early next gen comparisions for ps2 and ps3 gens. They are not flattering. infamous makes a decent comparision because one its similar openworld games two one is middle of gen vs next gen.
In fact if you want to see the accurate in the sense of timeline comparision you should be comparing infamous1 to ss where the difference is even more stark.
huh? okay I cant really understand what youre asking. But the point i was making is epic probably put out that demo as a next gen demo while they were assuming a 2.5tf next gen and they got 1.8 instead so there will obviously be scale backs ... (and this was seen in the demo at the ps4 unveil versus the original demo)
TheSpoiler
Member
Well, ideally, you want an equal basepoint for both systems, because the PS4/One hasn't had a chance to really push the hardware as I2 did, or more to the point, GTAV.
Infamous 2 was the last game of suker punch on ps3 (2012 if I'm not wrong anyway)& proves what was capable this team on ps3 hardware. Now look what they can do with ps4. It's notable.
How did you came up to that number?
I remember Cerny clearly said that it's X10 times more powerful, and FLPOS are not everything, there are other factors as well.
You say epic ask for 2.5 teraflops. Can you explain why? Because teraflops has not that important at all for the graphic. I missed your point about teraflops.
Caayn
Member
If were only looking at the GPU yes
(RSX 176GFLOPS +/- vs PS4 1,84Tflops)
PS4's specs are almost exactly 10x when taken as a whole.
I disagree that it's incremental. I just think it's not as noticeable.
The graphics in the current generation look like cutscenes from last gen come to life which is GREAT but it just "feels" like something we've seen before. There were a couple of moments in Second son where I stopped and thought "wow" but that was mostly due to the lighting.
It's not about making things look good graphically to me. It's art direction. It's style, nuance, attention to detail. This is why Last of Us will hold up for a while. Uncharted as well. They just look good overall. That's what people are noticing now and that's where I feel the focus should be. "Graphics" aren't enough. This is why I've never been interested in Crysis. It looks great but it also looks bland as hell. Chasing reality shouldn't be a goal and from what I can see, developers are recognizing this as well.
I think that's where this generation will start to set itself apart.
oh I see. I dont know the exact quote or what context it was said it but i read in some earlier thread/article that epic wanted the gpus to be 2.5 tflops and they got lower. So i'm assuming that just wanted/expected higher specs all round for next gen. Something more in line with how consoles were bleeding edge as opposed to comparable to a middish high end pc right now.
funny thing is it took me a while to realize that nd games (uc, tlou) arent actually that realistic. I played tr and then went back to compare to uc and realized uc is somewhat cartoonish/exagerrated . Hyper realism is the word i believe. Its also how they get away with using such vibrant tones etc.
Alebrije
Member
The problem is currently consoles graphics have been on PC since time ago , also the graphics gap is smaller compared with PS2 - PS3 one.
Anyway I bet games on PS4 will improve a lot next years , we are talking a machine that only has few months in the market.
Xbone will also improve but pS4 will be the lead on graphics due to better hardware.
Anyway I bet games on PS4 will improve a lot next years , we are talking a machine that only has few months in the market.
Xbone will also improve but pS4 will be the lead on graphics due to better hardware.
Exactly. Uncharted is bordering on "cartoony" when you look at how they animated the faces. It's really quite amazing.
Hyper realism (thanks for bringing that up) is so boring to me because you're always missing a mark. Aside from what ND did last gen, I also think Gears looked great as well. Graphically yes, but more importantly art direction. Everything in that game was designed so well and they were never quite going for "realism". I still love looking at that game.
Can't wait to see what we get this generation. Quite frankly I'm already pretty impressed.
The jump is just as big as last time.
Going from 720p (sometimes less) on PS3 to 1080p in almost every game available with much higher AA, higher quality texture work, effects such as Bokeh DOF, volumetrics and tessellation. These new consoles have impressed me more than the 360/ps3 did at the time. Only Kameo really impressed me at launch and it wasn't until a full year later when GOW launched that I felt I'd seen a massive leap.
So far Killzone, Battlefield 4 and Infamous have all stunned me by how much of a leap over last generation they appear visually. The Order looks like the first time I'll be truly blown away in a similar fashion to Gears and guess what, that's roughly a year after launch.
Well said. People are over here losing their minds and we're not even halfway through Year 1 yet.
Maybe with a few games like Metro: Last Light or Crysis 3. The power to do what current-gen consoles are currently doing has been around for years, but unfortunately that power is under-utilized. Maybe if PC gaming can get more popular, we will actually get more games to flex the muscles of the available hardware, like what is done for consoles.
Huh?
If we are looking past the GPU the gap only seems to get bigger with a much more advanced RAM as well.
I think X10 more powerful is indeed a proper evaluation, you can't say by pure numbers that this jump is any less significant than previous gens, maybe diminishing returns are more of a factor this time around (although i don't see at this point) and the impact is not as big, but the traditional jump of X10 is the same as before.
Melchiah
Member
AFAIK, those were PC tech demos. We've have only seen a console version of the Elemental demo.
EDIT: For comparison, here's the PS3's Unreal Engine tech demo from 2005.
http://youtu.be/c5X6_tuY3Wk
eehh not quite accurate look at cpus the cpu now is a mobile version as opposed to the exotic cell with spus ..
The Albatross
Member
No, there's nothing wrong with you. I jumped into this new generation but I've yet to really be blown away by anything like I have been with generations past. This feels like a nice iteration to me, a good step forward... Like going from an iPhone 4 to an iPhone 5. But, past generations always felt like the leap from a feature phone to a smart phone.
In every past generation, something (or a few things) blew me away and felt like huge advances in gaming and entertainment... since as long as I could appreciate that stuff. The jump from PS2 to 360 (which is what I jumped with) blew me away with having a "present" OS beneath my games, a cohesive online world, the jump to true HD gaming, downloadable console games (even if they were just Arcade titles initially), storing everything on an HDD instead of memory cards.
The jump in this generation doesn't really have anything in generations past that feels like a major step forward. Sure, more pixels, more frames, more polys, more lighting events, it's all good, but it feels like an incremental step, not some technological marvel like I have felt in every other generation.
It's not really a bad thing though, and I'm still enjoying this new generation.
In every past generation, something (or a few things) blew me away and felt like huge advances in gaming and entertainment... since as long as I could appreciate that stuff. The jump from PS2 to 360 (which is what I jumped with) blew me away with having a "present" OS beneath my games, a cohesive online world, the jump to true HD gaming, downloadable console games (even if they were just Arcade titles initially), storing everything on an HDD instead of memory cards.
The jump in this generation doesn't really have anything in generations past that feels like a major step forward. Sure, more pixels, more frames, more polys, more lighting events, it's all good, but it feels like an incremental step, not some technological marvel like I have felt in every other generation.
It's not really a bad thing though, and I'm still enjoying this new generation.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
The jump is just as big as last time.
Well...
The real next-gen showcase starts at this year's E3.
Caayn
Member
Take the CPU for example, the CPU in the PS4 is actually weaker than the one we see in the PS3. 230 GFLOPS vs 102GFLOPS (+/-45%)
The memory in the PS4 is, just like the GPU, an obvious upgrade in both size and speed. However it's not 10x times faster, it's (22.4GB/s vs 176GB/s) 7.8x faster.
The only places were I see a 10x or bigger improvement is in the memory size and GPU power. Everything is lower than 10x or in the CPUs case weaker than the PS3.
The Albatross
Member
I think this is where I just tap out on this discussion... "These changes are dramatically different, you just can't notice them as much.." A lot of people, even enthusiasts like me, throw up our hands and say.. well, if we can't notice the changes, is it really that much of a jump? Technologically speaking, sure it is, there are huge achievements being made, but.. maybe it's my age, I have a tougher time reconciling those advancements. And also, I look at a lot of the scenes and gifs people are posting in this thread and say "well, those look great, but is the player actually doing anything in that scene?" (particularly the Gif from Killzone or BF of those explosions taken from the helicopter).
It also happens to me when we start talking about the number of gigaflops some console pushes, or some level of AA versus another type of AA, tesselation, and things. I'm an enthusiast, but those sorts of details don't strike me as much. Although, I'm also the kind of guy who looks at GTAV and says "shit, this game looks incredible.." while a bunch of people on Gaf also looked at the same game and said "This looks horrible."
Melchiah
Member
This time GPU compute will handle stuff that Cell used to do, and to my understanding the PS4 CPU is more efficient than Cell.
The PS3's bandwidth number doesn't look that good against the PS2's, if you take eDRAM into account.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/853/14
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
I have started to completely ignore the concept of "generations".
PCs are already ahead of current consoles, and PC / Vita is the way I'm going for the foreseeable future. There are no generations to me now, only games.
That said, yes, I see nothing terribly exciting in the now current-gen console lineups. I'm not even paying attention - I'm getting back into Beatmania IIDX in a big way, and when I get my new PC later this month I'm going to launch a blitzkrieg on my Steam backlog, along with Dark Souls 2 (which is supposedly a "last-gen" game anyway).
More than enough stuff to play without paying any attention to new, AAA releases.
PCs are already ahead of current consoles, and PC / Vita is the way I'm going for the foreseeable future. There are no generations to me now, only games.
That said, yes, I see nothing terribly exciting in the now current-gen console lineups. I'm not even paying attention - I'm getting back into Beatmania IIDX in a big way, and when I get my new PC later this month I'm going to launch a blitzkrieg on my Steam backlog, along with Dark Souls 2 (which is supposedly a "last-gen" game anyway).
More than enough stuff to play without paying any attention to new, AAA releases.
TheSpoiler
Member
That's moving the goalpost. The general discussion was about the graphical presentation overall, not "well, what scenes is the player interacting".
This has become a matter of moving the goalpost anyway. Like, the fact that those scenes are even remotely capable is astounding, but we've become so jaded over the years that it all looks the same. One of my friends couldn't even see the difference between Yakuza Ishin running 30FPS and running 60FPS. It's such a clear-cut thing, but we expect more and more that our standards will never be met with reality.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
It still won't be of the calibur we are expecting..
Tech demos with promises.. yea. So again, you agree with me. If the hardware can't do it then it doesn't matter how many years into this generation we are in.. we aren't going to see games like those tech demos.. (which was my point).
sorry had to borrow this screen from the console screenshot thread.
Shot taken by Spookyfries.
Honestly cannot believe people are saying the upgrade isnt as big as the previous gen.
Delsin looks blurry but thats most likely due to Spookyfries messing around with camera angles/Depth etc...
And as far as im aware the photomode in infamous doesnt add graphical effects like the racing games of last gen did.
Shot taken by Spookyfries.
Honestly cannot believe people are saying the upgrade isnt as big as the previous gen.
Delsin looks blurry but thats most likely due to Spookyfries messing around with camera angles/Depth etc...
And as far as im aware the photomode in infamous doesnt add graphical effects like the racing games of last gen did.
I felt the same way, then I saw Ryse and beat Second Son.
http://a.pomf.se/cbscay.webm
You're not seeing that happen on the last-gen. At all.
http://a.pomf.se/cbscay.webm
You're not seeing that happen on the last-gen. At all.
This console generation is only beginning, if you look back to the xbox 360 launch you will find that the games for the first year or so were just ports of ps2 and xbox games.
The launch games didn't look impressive but after a few years they really started to shine!
Just compare Perfect Dark Zero and Call of Duty 2 to the games we have been seeing on the same consoles for the last few years, you would think they were 2 different generations!
Personally I have both a Xbox One and PS4 and am struggling to find the time to play all the great games I have for them both. The 360 and PS3 are still getting my love, mostly the PS3 as I still have so many great JRPG's on it that I am still trying to get through.
It's a great time to be a gamer no matter what platform you choose. So just sit back and enjoy the games, they don't have to look super realistic to be fun
The launch games didn't look impressive but after a few years they really started to shine!
Just compare Perfect Dark Zero and Call of Duty 2 to the games we have been seeing on the same consoles for the last few years, you would think they were 2 different generations!
Personally I have both a Xbox One and PS4 and am struggling to find the time to play all the great games I have for them both. The 360 and PS3 are still getting my love, mostly the PS3 as I still have so many great JRPG's on it that I am still trying to get through.
It's a great time to be a gamer no matter what platform you choose. So just sit back and enjoy the games, they don't have to look super realistic to be fun
Abdul Hafeez
Member
I don't think you're crazy for being underwhelmed. But I do think you're imagining things if you think this has been the least impressive transition. It's just like the transition from PS2/Xbox to PS3/Xbox 360. That was pretty underwhelming as well. The only transition that's been truly revelatory was SNES/Genesis to N64/PlayStation/Dreamcast. Going from 2D to 3D is a once-in-a-lifetime type of paradigm shift, something that even VR might not compare to.
If you're waiting to be wowed technically, then you just need to remember Resistance -> The Last of Us and how massive that gap is in terms of visual quality.
If you're waiting for any progress or innovation in game design, don't. There is no guarantee we will have any truly new experiences this generation from the AAA side of things. Fortunately, the indie scene will probably take care of that. Still, I'd like to believe we'll get a big budget game that feels extremely fresh and different. But that's an unrealistic dream.
If you're waiting to be wowed technically, then you just need to remember Resistance -> The Last of Us and how massive that gap is in terms of visual quality.
If you're waiting for any progress or innovation in game design, don't. There is no guarantee we will have any truly new experiences this generation from the AAA side of things. Fortunately, the indie scene will probably take care of that. Still, I'd like to believe we'll get a big budget game that feels extremely fresh and different. But that's an unrealistic dream.
CthulhuPL
Member
Whaaat? Games finally run at stable 30fps and the resolution is finally Full HD. Maybe not on Xbone but PS4 delivers Full HD so far (except BF4).
It's obviously a large update in terms of lighting, post processing and IQ, but the environment doesn't seem much higher detailed.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Sorry for digging up this thread again but I just started playing Infamous yesterday and couldn't help to think of it. I didn't want to comment because I haven't played it until now.
Thread thread pretty much seems like a joke. Putting aside how good this game looks in general, the lightning of this area just made my jaw drop right now.
I don't understand how anyone can tell me that he is coming from PS3 and NOT impressed by THIS. Delsin's character model looks surreal as does the lightning. True generational leap. Clearly more impressive than anything we had a PS3/360 launch.
Thread thread pretty much seems like a joke. Putting aside how good this game looks in general, the lightning of this area just made my jaw drop right now.
I don't understand how anyone can tell me that he is coming from PS3 and NOT impressed by THIS. Delsin's character model looks surreal as does the lightning. True generational leap. Clearly more impressive than anything we had a PS3/360 launch.
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
actually I feel the opposite this generation has made me not as impressed with my PCs Graphics (not comparing like for like)