SniperHunter
Banned
Thnx will watch soon
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Killlzone Shadow Fall's SP runs at unlocked frame rate
- Thread starter SniperHunter
- Start date
Essentially dropped or added frame what i mentioned. Ok i get it. Now can someone explain me how out of 60 or even 120frames a second someone can notice one frame added or lost ? And we are not talking here about white frame in sea of black frames but same frame doubled or cut like the rest of frames. At low FPS like 35 that should be noticeable because that means essentially one of 35 frames lost or doubled. The more FPS the less noticeable effect is. At 35 FPS it is 1/35 of second or
Maybe people noticing it are playing 20-40 fps games non stop ? :>
Well, I'd say the much more elegant solution would be that devs just optimize there games for 60FPS which is always the superior solution. So I'm really not interested so much in G-Sync, however I am thankful that finally someone makes those issues public. Maybe todays "elitist" is the soccer mom in 10 years, that would be a huge step. I mean, ever soccer mom would call their cable tv provider if the movies suddenly would start stuttering like crazy. It's just, for some weird reason (probably the 3d transition their being 3d was first priority) it's wildly accepted that games can run like shit and an inconsistent experience affecting visuals AND gameplay is somewhat "fine".
Wut? I don't know of a single PC gamer among the people I know that doesn't lock his framerate either via a frame specific lock or Vsync / Triple Buffer.
BruiserBear
Banned
This
SniperHunter
Banned
How many monitors and tvs am I suppose to buy? But it needs to happen!!
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
If it never dips below 30 FPS or it does it very rarely it might not be too annoying... I just remember the poor experience of Sonic Adventure DX on GameCube where the frame rate would go from 15 or so FPS to 60 FPS all over the place... Yikes, talking about a port worsened by its upgrades...
dark_prinny
Banned
And for the better.
fatgamecat
Member
I would rather they lock at 60 fps and use dynamic resolution scaling instead of framerate jumping around. Is that feasible on PS4? I read some about that feature on XB1.
In most games I notice frame drops from 60 to 59 or 58. I can't explain the technical detail, but it's somehow like the engine is just choking up frames for a second and then going normal. In most cases the effect is quite jarring. Take for example the latest NfS games - as soon as they drop just 1 frame, the game is a stuttery mess. Back to 60 and it's perfectly smooth. Amnesia: Machine for Pigs was the same. Put me in a blind test if you don't believe me.
Their choice introduces image judder that would not be present at a locked 30 fps. That is fact.
The other truth, however, is that input latency will be decreased in a linear fashion as the framerate is increased. They are likely prioritizing that over visual consistency.
The solution would be to simply offer the option to limit the framerate. That would completely solve this issue for everyone and would be very easy to implement. As it stands, I may have to use my PC to find a creative work around this problem by combining it with a 1080p capture card and some other software.
I'm not sure I agree with you. G-Sync is really incredible stuff. Variable framerates on a G-Sync display no longer APPEAR variable in the traditional sense. 55 fps looks virtually identical to 60 fps, for instance, and you can easily hit 70-80 or higher fps without worrying about dips. It completely turns everything we knew on its head, really.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I don't see how G-Sync is going to help evenly pace the wildly fluctuating frametimes if it's designed around delivering frames as soon as possible. Or maybe there's more to it than that.
G-sync is designed to set the Hz to the actual FPS, which may sound simple but solves a lot of problems.
Variable resolution rendering is a software feature, not a hradware feature. Every HW platform can do it. E.g. some PS3 games do it.
Yeah, that's because of fixed refresh rate displays. That's exactly the kind of stutter G-sync will fix.
NTIETS13A_Superiority
Banned
I through lcd/digital age got rid of this. I remember reading (when lcd/digital inpu became to picture) that lcd displays only change pixels when there is change in image feed/new frame and refresh rate is only limiting fastest possible frame change( for example 1/60s) until next frame can be updated. If it is not case TV manufacturers are biggest idiots in world. we live in digital age, where this would be easy as shit to implement.
I will rephrase it: How many PC gamers lock their fps to 30fps because occasionally their are framerate drops?
Kun Aguero
Member
I'm sure they have tested the game locked and unlocked. If they say unlocked improves the experience then I'm not going to argue before I play it.
That is not what we are talking here. What you described is sturrer because Engine is fucked up. Like Fallout3/NV.
And those drops aren't from 60 to 59 but from 60 to sometimes essentially 0 for split second but FRAPS doesn't register that since it uses average framerate.
I had it with Fallout 3/NV where FRAPS non stop showed 60FPS but in reality game sturrers like motherfucker because of 60Hz bug in their engine
What you described rarely happens on consoles because it is most of the time problem with Engine that is used for xxx GPUs or GPU drivers.
Nothing like it has existed before so I can understand why it is difficult to understand but, as Sethos notes, it's basically directly tying refresh rate to framerate. No more duplicate frames. Of course, if you dip under 30 fps using this technology it seems like you end up with gaps in the image so I'm not sure how they can deal with that yet.
The point is, 51 fps will produce an image that looks very much like 60 fps. A drop to 58 fps will be virtually undetectable. It's a complete change in the way the screen is drawn.
It works just as before. Nothing has changed and it wasn't a simple change to make. Most displays were made with video content in mind (which do display at an even framerate). G-Sync is designed for gaming.
TV (and monitor) manufacturers are biggest idiots in world, and Nvidia just now fixed this issue after more than a decade of digital displays being the norm.
Below 30 FPS they will do frame doubling. So you should still keep your framerate above 30 at all times even with a G-sync display.
It will only encourage devs to choose 30FPS I am afraid. The tecnology itself is fine, but it's a workaround for a shitty game design philisophy. It would not be needed it devs would set their priorities straight.
It would be a great way to sell tvs to gamers for sure. I'd be pretty excited if this was the case.
I wonder if a g-sync thing would help Occulus at all.
It will no longer be about "choosing" 30 fps as you can just let the framerate run free without issue.
Interesting, so that's what they've decided on? Fluctuating between 29 and 30 fps would be pretty awful then.
*IF* Sony were to do this I would immediately buy one of their TVs. I'm dreaming of an OLED TV with this type of technology now....
I'm so annoyed that G-Sync is so far off for me as I want it so very much. It's useless to me in small PC LCD form as I simply do not play games on my monitor these days.
Occulus is normal display.(not normal but you get what i am saying). It would need G-sync inside of Oculus
kriskrosbbk
Member
Thought the same ,reason is youtube I believe
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I never lock my framerate if its going to be variable above 30. I also don't see any judder if it isn't dipping below 30 as long as I have V-Sync on. Please show me a video of this judder you speak of.
Caayn
Member
This. Variable frame rate is an open invitation to judder.
With blurrays, it actually isn't very noticeable unless you know what it is, you are looking for it, and it is a panning shot. I don't really think judder is the right word for what people are discussing here though. I think what bothers people is large fps changes, say from 55 to sub 20 back to 55 within the space of 1 or 2 seconds.
I always lock my framerates. I never accept fluctuation on the PC.
No, I'm talking about judder which is exactly what you get with a Blu-ray movie on most displays.
The Kuro that I use features a proper 72 Hz mode, however, which can properly display 24 fps content (by displaying each frame three times). This produces completely even image panning in all films. Hard to watch movie on other displays for me at this point.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
In Crysis 3 I was around 30-45 with everything relatively maxed. Never once did I think that was anything but a smooth experience.
sol_bad
Member
I can tell framerate differences, I notice horrible screen tearing and I notice resolution differences on my plasma. I have also noticed micro stutters on my PC in the past at times when it has happened (Assassin's Creed).
I don't understand what you mean by juddering when switching between framerates.
Dictator93
Member
Crysis games are a rare exception due to their relatively prisitine motion blur and use of temporal AA. The visual experience is much better than most as a result.
Whatever works for you.
When I play Crysis 3 I either drop details for a constant 60 or max everything out and lock it to 30 (depends on whether I'm using a keyboard/mouse or a gamepad).
Obviously this varies from person to person but let's not pretend the issue doesn't exist.
I explained it above.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
This game looks like it would be really fun if you play it without the goddamn xray vision thing. Seeing through walls when you have the ability to blast through them is silly.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I understand it being a issue if its dipping below 30 but he is saying 30 is the baseline right. Show me some video of the issue encountered with a game with variables of 45-30
Was Tomb Raider the same way? That was dropping from 60 to around 42 if I remember correctly
How do you artificially lock a framerate in a PC game with an AMD card? Using triple buffering certainly doesn't do that.
SniperHunter
Banned
Terbinator
Member
Can you not do it in Afterburner?
Metalmurphy
Member
You turn vsync on.
Could this be issue of image processing in TVs and monitors ? I don't use monitor since like 2008 when i changed my CRT for LCDTV.
Maybe frame judder is simply way less noticeable on TVs that do some image processing ? Monitors as i strive for displaying everything as close to source material mostly without any IP. TV on other hand most of the time have some tech that deal with IP.
Maybe that is why i can't see judder on my TV ? Maybe there is some IP going on between frames that "smooths" frames ?
Those are microsturrers which are created by engine itself not by display we are talking here about. They are mostly bugs in engine that rarely happen on consoles (because of fixed hardware)
This is neogaf.gifGood.
I can't easily show you a video without sitting down and making one myself there's very few 60 fps videos out there to begin with. Do you think we're just making this up?!
NTIETS13A_Superiority
Banned
Holy poop. lcd:s don't have to sweep screen constantly like crt tvs to keep picture. How is updating screen only when frame updates not the norm with displays is mind boggling.
You're like my gf. Once she experiences something really really good, anything less just is of no interest to her to the point of actually being repulsed. I can't buy grocery store strawberries, cheapish cars, econo trans Atlantic airline tix, starbucks esspresso, etc.
Luckily she's never seen a 72hz color calibrated plasma so we can still watch TV together. I fear the day she watches something on a $10k 72hz calibrated OLED tv.
Afterburner. Everything else introduces micro stutter, for the most part, including nvidias options.
No idea, use Nvidia and Nvidia Inspector myself.
Dictator93
Member
using inspector on Nvidia cards.