That's why I said in the past! I'm happy with what I've seen in Andromeda for the most part.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Living in a world where a 7 is average
- Thread starter pashmilla
- Start date
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
I wouldn't say you picked the best examples, in FFXV I'd say the emphasis is put way more on the attractive all male party over any attractive females in the game. In Mass Effect 2 isn't Jack a female? Doesn't look attractive to me imo. In Watch Dogs the guys are more attractive than the girls in the pic you posted.
Not saying this doesn't exist, in Japanese games specifically, but you didn't pick the best examples.
Not saying this doesn't exist, in Japanese games specifically, but you didn't pick the best examples.
tkscz
Member
Fuck off, she's a damned 10.
Which brings me to my point, what counts as beautiful and what counts as ugly? Beauty is extremely subjective. What I find beautiful is RARELY shown in video games, usually only Zelda games have plus size women. However, that would mean the characters posted by OP could be less than 7 for me, and other people, not just the ones who like plus size either. So far it's mostly artist, both male and female, drawing and created what they want to see. Even then, the "ugly dudes" aren't ugly to some people.
So what counts as a 7? What counts a 10 or even a 1?
There're female and kids gorons in the new Zelda.
That's not what I said. But male characters are allowed to have "defects" and be flawed, if still attractive, as well as straight up ugly, whereas most female characters are perfect porcelain dolls.
I feel like maybe there is something with the facial animation system requiring round ass faces or something. All the characters look bizarre.
I didn't meet any female Gorons in Goron City. Are they elsewhere in the game?
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
I saw a Goron in
that city where only women are allowed
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I know what ya meant, I just don't agree. I think Zelda's gorgeous in BOTW, and in a pretty traditional way.
metareferential
Member
Male protagonists instead can be ugly?
Because aside from a few selected ones (Kane and Lynch?) all male heroes are tall, fit handsome guys.
Or at least that's the intention in their design. Even more so now that real actors are lending their image to game developement.
Because aside from a few selected ones (Kane and Lynch?) all male heroes are tall, fit handsome guys.
Or at least that's the intention in their design. Even more so now that real actors are lending their image to game developement.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
She has big eyes a small noise and a v-shaped chin She's specifically designed to be attractive so the player wants to rescue her.
Man that image REALLY encapsulates everything wrong with gamer culture's perception of women. Should be in the OP.
Bethesda RPG's do a good job at this; both male and female characters are all over the map in both Elder Scrolls and Fallout. Different ages too. There are certainly plenty of attractive female characters, but it's a big mix.
You can also design your character to be ugly, if you choose.
You can also design your character to be ugly, if you choose.
tkscz
Member
Well, again, Zelda games always have different looking female characters, not just "beautiful" ones. It became more obvious during the gamecube era and up.
Rickenslacker
Banned
I quite like Rachel from Binary Domain because she's atypical looking for a female game character. She's great.
She's an 11 you watch your tongue.
John Kowalski
Banned
Not particularly topical but irl i feel people are still afraid to say that it's ok to not be the prettiest boy or girl in class, like, as if by some motion of the heavenly spheres the whole situation is made such that admitting that you have value even if you're not attractive is seen as giving up on yourself, or... if said, always with a twinge of hypocrisy behind it.
Spacejaws
Member
You know what. As much as people like to shit on Evolve one thing I think they did excellent on was the chracters and one aspect of that was diversifying them but also not being typically female heroes even though some of them could be considered beauty queens. Here's a few examples.
Kala
Sunny
Lennox
Maggie
Val
Kaira
I think the only one you could consider A 'porcelain doll' is Val other than them being generally in shape. The guys are all over the place too.
Kala
Sunny
Lennox
Maggie
Val
Kaira
I think the only one you could consider A 'porcelain doll' is Val other than them being generally in shape. The guys are all over the place too.
Mr. Phellps
Member
The point of the OP is not defined by what one or two of you may or may not find attractive. Regardless of what you consider beautiful, there's a beauty standard that is completely independent and is what most people will say "Yeah, that's an attractive person". A few of you disagreeing with said standard does nor make it go away not does it invalidate the point made by the OP.
Yes, a lot of the rugged male characters in games are considered attractive while women in games are only considered attractive by the majority when they look like supermodels.
That's the point OP is trying to make, women are far more restricted by their expected appearance.
Yes, a lot of the rugged male characters in games are considered attractive while women in games are only considered attractive by the majority when they look like supermodels.
That's the point OP is trying to make, women are far more restricted by their expected appearance.
I think you're right, on average across the whole industry. I find that most male leads are conventionally attractive, but lots of male NPCs are the equivalent of "character actors" and can be average-looking or downright ugly. By contract, most female NPCs are pretty attractive - sorta like how women scientists or programmers are almost always look like models on TV, while their male counterparts are often shlubby.
But in your original post you've picked a few games in which nearly all the major characters are really attractive, to the point where calling them "flawed" would be nitpicking - the only really homely person I see is Vesemir from The Witcher 3, and that's a game with lots of realistic-looking older women (and a strapping male lead with perfect facial features - even his scars are attractively placed - who is blatantly objectified at a number of points in the game).
Also, while male leads get to have a few defects (sometimes), there are some defects - typically relating to masculinity - that they almost never have, in any visual medium attempting some sort of escapist narrative. Specifically, they are never really short (and if an actor is short clever camera work and/or lifts hides this fact), or balding in an unattractive way, or fat, which are categories to which a large number of real-world men belong.
Ah, gotcha. Have not been there yet. That makes sense, then.
I don't mean she would not be considered attractive, just not in (my interpretation of) the "western ideal" beauty norms kind of way. I respect your opinion, though, and you may be right in terms of the traditional way, it seems I just haven't seen her that way for whatever reason. (See my reply below as well.)
I can't dispute your points, I'm sure you are right in an objective sense. I guess I am just not aware of norms in the way I thought I was. Thank you for the correction. Perhaps my interpretation is more based on the amiibo, since I haven't seen her much in the game yet? Would the amiibo depiction be considered as traditionally attractive?
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Evolution made us that way, there's nothing we can do about it now other than come up with a system of morality based on sexual modesty enforced by state censors. I think that was already tried.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
No it's not unless you literally don't go outside ever to observe people. Humanity is diverse as shit aesthetically.
I mean the Amiibo, like most dolls, looks creepy AF:
but yes Zelda in BOTW looks as typically attractive as a princess can be:
Alkastelca
Member
Principate
Saint Titanfall
No it's not unless you literally don't go outside ever to observe people. Humanity is diverse as shit aesthetically.
I mean the Amiibo, like most dolls, looks creepy AF:
but yes Zelda in BOTW looks as typically attractive as a princess can be:
I mean she looks like Zelda. Your not going to get an "average" looking "Zelda" without a drastic shift in design. Wind waker was probably the biggest. But honestly 3D Zelda really isn't one of those series of games where every woman is a supermodel, there's a whole bunch of average-ish looking characters male and female in those games.
SparkleMotion
Member
Replace "games" with "life".
Oh I don't know about that, I think the GF's in Zelda look pretty fucking amazing.
mmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
It's not like it's only a problem in the gaming world or because most gamers are men. It's just a general thing in todays society. See womens magazines and media geared towards women. It's not like there is ugly people in romance movies and stuff like twilight and fifty shades of grey.
It's difficult to do something about because people are hypocrites. You see this topic often on gaf and yet the same people goes out and buy games like MGS.
I love japanese games, but i'm not sure there is even one game without a pretty girl in it if there is a girl.
It's difficult to do something about because people are hypocrites. You see this topic often on gaf and yet the same people goes out and buy games like MGS.
I love japanese games, but i'm not sure there is even one game without a pretty girl in it if there is a girl.
Version 3.0
Member
I see the problem. Not sure what to do about it. But I just want to point out that Midna is quite ugly, and the internet tells me that was no obstacle to guys fapping over her.
So if that's really a concern...I guess it doesn't need to be. Heh.
On the other hand, it doesn't do much to refute "guys only see women as fap material".
So if that's really a concern...I guess it doesn't need to be. Heh.
On the other hand, it doesn't do much to refute "guys only see women as fap material".
SparkleMotion
Member
If a Japanese game has an ugly woman in it, and she's not the villain, can bet her appearance will be used as the butt of a joke.
unrenowned
Member
How is this supposed to be solved? Beauty standards are set by the movie/TV industry, making game characters uglier would not change that. Can't really remember when I played a game with an ugly male protagonist though.
Veritigo_X
Member
Vesemir is a solid 8.
Wait, isn't she described as someone who is normally plain-looking but used magic to enhance her appearance so she looks breathtaking? Genuinely curious since I'm currently reading through the books and I'm worried I got something wrong lol
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's of case of NPC's especially those story important. How many average or story important female npc or party members do you remember from the past few games you played.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The movie industry is actually a shit ton better than this, the whole point of a shit ton of critically acclaimed movies is seeing characters at the lowest points in their lives, and that includes women. Sure you got the cheesecake that is the superhero, action movie, YA novel, and romance film schlock, but even then, we just got a film like Logan:
where instead of this:
we got this:
Abilidebob
Member
I SINCERELY thought the thread was about Jim Sterling's 7 he gave to BOTW, from reading just the thread title.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
If you wanna use another example example from the game in question, this was called terrible in that downgrade thread and some even insinuated that Bioware intentionally makes female characters "ugly" in the goal of feminism.
because it doesn't look exactly like a photoshopped picture of the model she's scanned from.
Like holy shit.
People are calling this "ugly"? Fucking hell.
TissueBox
Member
Good-looking people and good-looking women are still an obsession.
A lot of people (particularly hetero men) still associate beauty and desirability to women as primary traits. This added with the 'need' for pleasant-looking characters (even the 'average-looking' usually aren't exactly 'ugly' in several cases) to set our eyes upon in general means this won't be going away for a while. Least what I think.
A lot of people (particularly hetero men) still associate beauty and desirability to women as primary traits. This added with the 'need' for pleasant-looking characters (even the 'average-looking' usually aren't exactly 'ugly' in several cases) to set our eyes upon in general means this won't be going away for a while. Least what I think.
FrontalMonk
Banned
lol. next time, read the OP.