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MS to talk about gaming on XB1, W10 "and beyond" in the next "few weeks" & months
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
Yes It's called the Lumia 950/950Xl/650/Surface Phone
Luckydog
Member
Being more open and inclusive is the only thing I can see that would bring people back to the brand. For games that come late, MS avoids the appearance of second fiddle and getting games late. All those PS4/PC release AUTOMATICALLY become Xbox release because people will be playing it on an Xbox.
For PC and Keyboard, simple solutions. Either support keyboard and mouse or simply have a "Tag" in the store similar for VR where you can show what supports xbox and what doesnt.
As for people not buying from the MS store, they are not doing that now. Things that are exclusive to Xbox will still be bought through their store. With this method, MS would capture at least SOME of the sales that are not coming to them now via PC support. SFV on PC and PS4? NO MORE, Xbox automatically included. Rocket League not day and date on Xbox One? It is now if you buy it on Steam.
Finally, there is precedent for this. Amazon has its own Android store. It hasn't destroyed Google play.
MilkyJoe
Member
Every point you raised leads to you being completely insane.
Oh, I am aware and it does not bother me that these systems will be releasing. Just personally, I do not see the point and am not about to drop money on more systems before even getting life out the ones I already bought and have not even enjoyed for two years yet. Too much money and takes value away from what they originally released.
I really don't understand the obession over graphics, we don't need better graphics..we need better games. Right now games this gen have been a disaster on a whole, the only game that I truly LOVED was Witcher 3, for 3 years into a gen that's pretty bad.
Xbox 360 90+ metacritics in first 3 years:
Xbox One 90+ 3 years in:
* Not completely 3 years in so maybe not a fair comparison, but I think we can all agree it's not coming close to the 360's first 3 years by the end of 2016.
Out of those, the only one that's not on 360 is Witcher 3 and that probably could have been a 360 game aswell.
Maybe it's just me but I wish publishers/developers would stop caring about shiny pretty graphics and just focus on making great games and more powerful hardware isn't going to do that, it's only going to feed the mindset that games need pretty graphics.
Yea this is pretty depressing. We need some killer games not killer graphics, not to mention that the graphics we get anyway are amazing already. My only issue with them on Xbox is the sub-native resolution.
I have enjoyed this gen so far, but yeah, it is just now getting going. I already bought hardware, all I want now is the software. Beyond the NX (an actual new system), I will not be ready for new hardware until around 2019.
MilkyJoe
Member
The only thing I can think of is VR support.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
No, not really, I'm fine with the Gears 4 beta at 1080p and less impressive graphics.
1:1 pixel mapping is more important.
For the bolded... Microsoft doesn't give a shit about the appearance of second fiddle, if the alternative is not selling a copy at all, because everyone that would have bought the game from them (which was still a substantial number or people) had just bought the Steam version instead. Psyonix probably wouldn't have even bothered with a port later in that case, meaning that nobody would ever have bought it from them.
Sorry, but you're being ridiculous. If they were happy to only directly sell the games they make themselves, then they'd just do that on PC in the way EA does, and put everything else everywhere as a third party. Xbox exists to sell everyone elses games, along with their recurring services. You make the Street Fighter V situation palatable in general for the Xbox audience, and there's no reason for every non-MS game to not do that instead (as is basically the case right now on Windows 10). As for people not currently buying from MS?... Where are you getting that from? Seeing as you used Assassin's Creed in your previous example.. let's use Ubisoft's financial report, to see how the split looks for them.
Well... that's a surprisingly large amount of "nothing".. obviously the smart thing to do would be to allow Valve to expand the PC share of that to basically absorb the Xbox One share, and then take a sixth of the total... brilliant business. I'm sure once consoles gamers move to Steam in general, Valve and other manufacturers wouldn't then simply offer a range of Steam machines that can now safely cut MS out of the equation entirely. Nope.
Luckydog
Member
Look, I dont think MS will actually do this. It's more my hypothetical argument of how to get people to return. It is pie in the sky. As far as the chart goes, the pop up conveniently covers part of the chart, but if you look at the whole thing, MS consistently growing the software gap over sony in the first few years and consistently losing the software gap in the later years. Keep extrapolating and their market is going away. We already repeatedly see games coming late or never to the Xbox. Keep doing that and you sell less hardware which makes less games come to the system in an ever going cycle.
My question to you is, what CAN make people come back to the MS brand. I do not believe it is just hardware power. MS needs to do something to differentiate that people actually want besides TV/SPORTS/APPS.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Yeah, you do bring some good points here. Phil Spencer basically has been saying it as well, but i guess we just don't want to listen and hope too much that a much improved Xbox is coming. But what you are saying is true, they do remain close to PS4, the differences really haven't been insanely big so far and plenty of people will stick with PS4 as well. Unless for some reason PS4's whole userbase moves over to PS4K/Neo, that would be quite bad for MS, but i really doubt that.
For me and my friends this would suck bigtime though. We're all big Xbox gamers and we rather stick with that console for its exclusives and multiplatform games, for XBL and so on. But i know several of them, including me will definitely buy mulitplats for the new PS4, because you can bet your ass those differences are going to be pretty big. I've been ok with the differences so far and have accepted that X1 is a bit weaker, but it does its thing, but there's a limit to that for me.
As always....time will tell.
MilkyJoe
Member
Why do think all those loyal subjects left?
People are more informed than some give credit for. The Xbone is only 2/3 the console of the PS4. The PS4 could be advertised as the stronger console for less money.
DRM, kinect and TV TV TV aside, do you think the Xbox team would have jumped ship leaving their preferred exclusives, superior online and generally considered the superior controller, if the xbone launched as it is today but the same or slightly greater power than the PS4?
Samurai G0SU
Member
But you don't need the newest ones to play the newest games. according to the mention of forward compatible.. sooo.... your purchase of any playstation or xbox going forward will play playstation or xbox games. you're good.
The pop up is me hovering over it show the percentages, rather than having you guess the size of the bars. You can see it here. The previous bar is 6:9 in PS4's favor... the spread has remained mostly consistent. The 360 was a different console, and so it's numbers against the PS3 aren't indicative of a trend (generational shift). If anything the 360's performance is a reason why this makes less sense, as each console generation (at least up to now when they were clearly defined) presents an opportunity for large shifts in momentum. Putting Steam on Xbox is dangerous for numerous reasons... firstly that clearly defined generations don't exist for it, and also because the next shift could very easily be Valve taking its nearly bolstered Steam customer base as extracting them out of the Xbox ecosystem entirely once gen 9 rolls around. They would have what they've currently lacked up until now... a built in console presence. Meanwhile MS would have whoever didn't just see their amassed libraries transfer away with Valve.
I get that everything you (and I) are saying is theoretical, and based on assumptions... but that doesn't prevent the logic from being extremely faulty, and some of what you're claiming (software not selling on Xbox) from just being outright false. You seem to think that MS is interested in selling the hardware above selling the services.. which goes against everything they've been saying, and every action they've been taking up until this point. You're not talking about people returning to Xbox... you're talking about people moving to Steam, and treating the Xbox as a cheap baseline PC (which would quickly become interchangeable with any other cheap PC).
As for what CAN bring people back to Xbox? I dunno (which is why I'm not being employed to run the division I guess). Though I would say that maintaining a decent level of hardware parity and then launching strong next gen would definitely help. The Windows 10 stuff would also be useful if they offer interchangeability between playing on PC and console whilst only having to buy the software once. Basically, they should be trying to provide the things that you suggest Steam would give them... without actually giving their audience over to Steam. Flesh out the Windows Store, make it competitive and then let the combined market between it and Xbox mean that skipping either as a publisher is unappealing.
Luckydog
Member
I'm not sure I understand the question here. If you are saying that back in 2013 when MS made the Xbox one announcement and:
- Didnt include horrendous DRM
- Didnt include Kinect
- Didnt focus on TV and Sports
- And was more powerful or even the same power as the PS4
- Didnt have abysmal messaging trying to make up for the above
That I think people would have stayed in the Xbox ecosystem? Of course I do! I personally feel massive amounts of people would have rolled strait from the 360 to the Xbox One. I think it would have been a much closer race than it is now. Given how MS has treated countries outside of the US and UK, I think they still would be behind, but not by a greater than 2 to 1 and counting.
Luckydog
Member
I agree that MS's focus is on selling software, i just think they need to sell more hardware to do it. I also wasnt trying to sell the point that they sell NO software, only that they sell less than PS4 and I believe that is trending down. If you look at your chart plus monthly NPD's that is my interpretation.
I like what they are doing with PC and Xbox cross play and in some cases cross buy. I just dont think its enough to get people to move back.
CrimsonEclipse
Member
I agree - I dont think Sony would be seeing the dominance it has now if it wasn't for those things you outlined. It would of been a much closer race.
It's interesting to see what will happen with the X1 a year or two from now. Maybe we are looking too much into this X1, Win10, & beyond thing though with such little details being leaked. It can also be Phill hinting at something knowing that there is a lot of buzz around PS4K/NX as he may not want it to seem that there is nothing brewing on at Redmond.
MS invested too much into dumb peripherals instead of studios. They only have a few really great first party studios and those franchises are seeming long in the tooth. They need to diversify and make more games.
Which is exactly what they're doing thanks to Phil Spencer. It's just that all of the bad decisions have caught up to create this perfect storm. But MS has the money to weather it all. If they want to is the question. Otherwise Surface Home, here we come.
Which is exactly what they're doing thanks to Phil Spencer. It's just that all of the bad decisions have caught up to create this perfect storm. But MS has the money to weather it all. If they want to is the question. Otherwise Surface Home, here we come.
michaelius
Banned
I wonder what new and innovative way to shit all over pc gamers they will find this time after the great UWP idea they had. Especially since that statement suggests they are doubling down on xbox/pc integration.
You may not have been trying to portray them as selling "no software", but you certainly were suggesting it to be far less significant than it is (especially is Steam if supposed to be a hail mary saviour). Recall your previous posts...
You may also not be suggesting that they sell "no copies" of third party games... but by making PS4/Steam releases a super attractive proposition (far moreso than today), that's basically what they risk having happen. As you said, if Rocket League's Steam release were playable on Xbox One, everyone would have just bought that instead. So why release an Xbox One port at all later? And without that, how does MS sell the game, rather than simply have Valve sell more of the game instead?
I don't think there's a whole lot they can do to move users back this generation. I think they realise that, and are likely looking to start off strong for the next gen... but things could definitely be worse (ask Nintendo)... things could be way, way worse... and attaching the users they still have to Valve's ecosystem is basically a surefire way to write yourself out of the console market forever.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
You guys don't seem to get how this works.
The XBox didn't lose anyone to get back,t hey are gaing more peopl then they did before at a first time, just that the sales of the PS3 and some of the Wii went to the PS4 from last gen, that's literally it.
Let's say Xbox one for the sake of example is at 20 and we use the 35.9 (I believe that is the correct one) number for Sony, and say the Wii U sold 10.5 sold through.
that's about 66 million put together not too different from this same point last gen. Just that a lot of the dead Wii sales went to PS4. Xbox One is getting the 360 sales and then some.
Luckydog
Member
I hear what you are saying, but if you tell me that the vast majority of Wii sales are up for grabs (Given Wii U is around 13mm), and those Wii sales are choosing a different, more mainstream console system, Then feel that a Wii user that goes to the PS4 is a lost customer for MS. That customer had a choice of 2 major console companies when moving away from Nintendo. That is a sale waiting to happen. If they chose the competitor it is a lost sale.
LOL, I know and that is why I said I don't care. I'm just saying that I still don't see the point because nobody asked for this. We are just now starting to get this gen going and they want to sell us more hardware that takes value away from the systems we just bought by being more powerful? Okay, good luck with not pissing a bunch of people off. Now I am not mad, I just am saying this is going to happen.
Personally, I'm good with the Xbox One and PS4 OG models that I already bought. All I expect are games to make those purchases worthwhile, not more powerful versions of the same systems I already own that will play all of the same games. Again, I don't care. I simply think it is stupid, too early and completely unnecessary after sitting back and thinking about it all. But a niche crowd of hardcore tech heads that like to constantly buy hardware will dig it. Good for them, I guess.
bitbydeath
Member
Xbox breakout: Xbox devices
I think it's as it states.
Xbox will be made available on many more devices.
(Mobiles and Surface).
How do people come up with this stuff?
bitbydeath
Member
Needs an Xbox app so you can plug them into a TV and play it just like an Xbox.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
I really dont get the complainers...
You are not forced to buy this upgraded machines. If you are okey with the 720p galore on the OG XboxOne for example, thats okey. But others hate that this happens. And stuff like this is only fixable with new Hardware.
So if people want a better Xbox experience, let them have that.
I really love that idea of this upgraded machines.
You are not forced to buy this upgraded machines. If you are okey with the 720p galore on the OG XboxOne for example, thats okey. But others hate that this happens. And stuff like this is only fixable with new Hardware.
So if people want a better Xbox experience, let them have that.
I really love that idea of this upgraded machines.
Sackboy avatar.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Bolded - Which is it?
Doesn't matter if you think its stupid. People think chicken & waffle potato chips are stupid - guess what? there is a market for them.
To the point...
Obviously there are a group of market researchers, teams across internal and external companies with compelling data to make this a reality. I dont think someone in either company just sit back and thought this would be a good idea and told all of their peons to make it happen. So sit back again and think hard on how this approach is stupid across the ever evolving purchasing habits of human beings across multiple demographics, in multiple contries with multiple ways to spend money.
Guess what else? I'm not a hardcore tech head but i plan on buying the newer systems. *gasp
EL OH EL
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
Less games are going to get 90+ not because the quality is worse but because critics are harsher. 83+ is the new 90
Games with poor gameplay like Oblivion and Bioshock would not get 90+ this gen
Why do i always smell a hint of wishful thinking from this conclusion?
I'm not drawing off the conclusion of these things ever ever ever happening, any company can go belly up, but I just don't know how people take the evidence in front of them as of April 21st 2016 and predict this.
Pretty obvious what I meant. Most bought the Xbox One and PS4 and were not expecting or asking for a more powerful version of the same system. But of course there will be people who will want to upgrade, just not most of the people who already bought the original systems. It's not going to happen.
Opus Angelorum
Member
How about...no.
Luckydog
Member
I dont know, from a certain point of view I don't think they would phase out the brand. Based on what we are seeing they might SPAM the Xbox name on Everything MS relate that has a game.
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun
Banned
But it isn't losing them, so there's nothing to comeback Wii sales are also going tot he Xbox One in smaller amounts, and a large amount are just gone and likely won't come back unless something drastic happens.
...Scatter...
Banned
Getting people to return is easy. Build a strong box at a great value and respect their wishes by not bundling Peripherals like Kinect. That's what made the 360 successful. You had the arcade which was a cheap entry and the standard with the HD.
Luckydog
Member
Unfortunately, I just dont think that would pull in more users mid-gen. Someone already built a strong box at a great value and respected their wishes by not bundling in bullshit. Sony.
Pathfinder
Member
That doesn't mean someone else can't build a strong box at a great value as well.
Anything is possible. Sony isn't the only game in town.
I think Xbox is going to do something unorthodox for their next console. By that, I mean it will be like an Xbox/PC hybrid or have some crazy streaming technology. I think they don't see much profitability if they strictly go for the console market, have a feeling they will branch out more. Their core competencies are with Azure and Windows, so I would think at least one or both of those would factor heavily into the next console. I don't know how exactly this plays out, but I'm just getting vibes that we should not expect a traditional next step from MS.
Hawk269
Member
I agree with this. I think the Kinect should of been optional, $499.99 with Kinect, $399.99 without. It was just a combination of things. Poor messaging, too much TV, weaker hardware, higher price point due to Kinect, DRM etc. It was a combination of things that cost MS to loose many consumers. Since then, they have done an amazing job, but the damage was already done and there are a lot of people that decided to go PS4 instead of moving from 360 to Xbox One. I know quite a few friends that jumped ship due to the various screw ups that MS managed to do all in one shot.