I dunno why this crossed my mind this morning, but with Sony basically out, and Nintendo focusing on releasing a new home console this year, could microsoft finally be attempting a handheld device?
I mean, it seems they kind of ruled out a PS4 neo type upgrade, yet its clear they are working on new hardware...
Maybe I'm just insane.
Yea, they're getting destroyed, and it is harming their software and services... but not nearly to the extent that Steam would. "Buy DooM on Xbox for £45!"... or buy the PC version of cdkeys.com for £25, and use it on both your console and PC!
If you could get the Windows 10 and Xbox version of a game, or the Steam and Xbox version of a game... who in their right mind would EVER pick the former? The latter is two unique copies, allowing access to 2 wholly unique ecosystems, whilst being habitually cheaper.
You talk of games getting ported over late (e.g. Rocket League), why would this speed something like that up? They could have simply not ported it ever, and Xbox players could have just bought the Steam version and played with PC and PlayStation gamers from day one. Your solution to the "they're selling less third party games" is to let Valve sell them instead, whilst paying MS a sixth of the money they currently see from an XB1 sale. Is the software split on a game like Assassin's Creed consistently around 6:1 in the PS4's favor? Because that's the kind of math you're working with in order for this tradeoff to make sense.
Also, many, many Steam games will require mouse/keyboard and controllers outside of those MS provides for their console. So now, you're not just trading off software license fees, and online subscriptions fees... but also potentially accessories as well.
Everything you suggest sounds absolutely wonderful for you and me (and Valve)... but I'm having a very hard time seeing how this wouldn't just be utter stupidity on MS' end. It's creating a rival store (that obliterates them in the space they currently share) within the one place they currently have full control of. It'd do them worse than iTunes did.
I dunno why this crossed my mind this morning, but with Sony basically out, and Nintendo focusing on releasing a new home console this year, could microsoft finally be attempting a handheld device?
I mean, it seems they kind of ruled out a PS4 neo type upgrade, yet its clear they are working on new hardware...
Maybe I'm just insane.
Well we are half way through what would be a traditional gen and as the boxes will be backwards forwards compatible, you don't have to worry about games.
As with PS4K, I don't see the point at all. But I guess the option for those who want more power every few years is neat. I just know that I am not going to be buying new systems every 3 years, lol. That is barely even enough time to make a good game. Once I buy a console, I want software for years to make it worth my purchase, not more hardware before the gen even gets going.
Gears of War
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter
Bioshock
The Orange Box
CoD 4
Halo 3
Guitar Hero 2
Rock Band
Mass Effect
Forza 2
GTA 4
Braid
Fallout 3
Gears of war 2
Rock Band 2
Portal: Still Alive
Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2
* Not completely 3 years in so maybe not a fair comparison, but I think we can all agree it's not coming close to the 360's first 3 years by the end of 2016.GTA V
MGS V
Witcher 3
Diablo 3 (Ps4 version)
Rayman Legends (Ps4 version)
I really don't understand the obession over graphics, we don't need better graphics..we need better games. Right now games this gen have been a disaster on a whole, the only game that I truly LOVED was Witcher 3, for 3 years into a gen that's pretty bad.
Xbox 360 90+ metacritics in first 3 years:
Xbox One 90+ 3 years in:
* Not completely 3 years in so maybe not a fair comparison, but I think we can all agree it's not coming close to the 360's first 3 years by the end of 2016.
Out of those, the only one that's not on 360 is Witcher 3 and that probably could have been a 360 game aswell.
Maybe it's just me but I wish publishers/developers would stop caring about shiny pretty graphics and just focus on making great games and more powerful hardware isn't going to do that, it's only going to feed the mindset that games need pretty graphics.
I really don't understand the obession over graphics, we don't need better graphics..we need better games. Right now games this gen have been a disaster on a whole, the only game that I truly LOVED was Witcher 3, for 3 years into a gen that's pretty bad.
Xbox 360 90+ metacritics in first 3 years:
Xbox One 90+ 3 years in:
* Not completely 3 years in so maybe not a fair comparison, but I think we can all agree it's not coming close to the 360's first 3 years by the end of 2016.
Out of those, the only one that's not on 360 is Witcher 3 and that probably could have been a 360 game aswell.
Maybe it's just me but I wish publishers/developers would stop caring about shiny pretty graphics and just focus on making great games and more powerful hardware isn't going to do that, it's only going to feed the mindset that games need pretty graphics.
Oh, I am aware and it does not bother me that these systems will be releasing. Just personally, I do not see the point and am not about to drop money on more systems before even getting life out the ones I already bought and have not even enjoyed for two years yet. Too much money and takes value away from what they originally released.
Yea this is pretty depressing. We need some killer games not killer graphics, not to mention that the graphics we get anyway are amazing already. My only issue with them on Xbox is the sub-native resolution.
No, not really, I'm fine with the Gears 4 beta at 1080p and less impressive graphics.So you care about graphics....
Resolution issues can be fixd by new Hardware.
Being more open and inclusive is the only thing I can see that would bring people back to the brand. For games that come late, MS avoids the appearance of second fiddle and getting games late. All those PS4/PC release AUTOMATICALLY become Xbox release because people will be playing it on an Xbox.
For PC and Keyboard, simple solutions. Either support keyboard and mouse or simply have a "Tag" in the store similar for VR where you can show what supports xbox and what doesnt.
As for people not buying from the MS store, they are not doing that now. Things that are exclusive to Xbox will still be bought through their store. With this method, MS would capture at least SOME of the sales that are not coming to them now via PC support. SFV on PC and PS4? NO MORE, Xbox automatically included. Rocket League not day and date on Xbox One? It is now if you buy it on Steam.
Finally, there is precedent for this. Amazon has its own Android store. It hasn't destroyed Google play.
For the bolded... Microsoft doesn't give a shit about the appearance of second fiddle, if the alternative is not selling a copy at all, because everyone that would have bought the game from them (which was still a substantial number or people) had just bought the Steam version instead. Psyonix probably wouldn't have even bothered with a port later in that case, meaning that nobody would ever have bought it from them.
Sorry, but you're being ridiculous. If they were happy to only directly sell the games they make themselves, then they'd just do that on PC in the way EA does, and put everything else everywhere as a third party. Xbox exists to sell everyone elses games, along with their recurring services. You make the Street Fighter V situation palatable in general for the Xbox audience, and there's no reason for every non-MS game to not do that instead (as is basically the case right now on Windows 10). As for people not currently buying from MS?... Where are you getting that from? Seeing as you used Assassin's Creed in your previous example.. let's use Ubisoft financial report, to see how the split looks for them.
Well... that's a surprisingly large amount of "nothing".. obviously the smart thing to do would be to allow Valve to expand the PC share of that to basically absorb the Xbox One share, and then take a sixth of the total... brilliant business. I'm sure once consoles gamers move to Steam in general, Valve and other manufacturers wouldn't then simply offer a range of Steam machines that can now safely cut MS out of the equation entirely. Nope.
I think it's prudent to wait and come out first with true next gen (4K native gaming), because there's not much for MS to gain by following along now. Here's what I mean:
Sony has a huge mind- and marketshare advantage right now. If MS just does the 'me too' thing with a XB1.5, what does that really get them? Yes, XB1 will be the least powerful machine, but it's still close enough to PS4 performance that it's not that big of a deal.
If Sony pushes hard on exploiting the advantages of the Neo, it undercuts their own PS4, which could get them some backlash from the hardcore crowd.
Meanwhile, MS can plan and execute a new machine for 2018, with 4K native gaming, and a lot of lessons learned from their XB1 mistakes. If they can fix the issues with UWP, that will make the whole backwards/forward compatibility issue a lot easier on the devs. This puts MS in a nice position going forward.
Look, I dont think MS will actually do this. It's more my hypothetical argument of how to get people to return. It is pie in the sky. As far as the chart goes, the pop up conveniently covers part of the chart, but if you look at the whole thing, MS consistently growing the software gap over sony in the first few years and consistently losing the software gap in the later years. Keep extrapolating and their market is going away. We already repeatedly see games coming late or never to the Xbox. Keep doing that and you sell less hardware which makes less games come to the system in an ever going cycle.
My question to you is, what CAN make people come back to the MS brand. I do not believe it is just hardware power. MS needs to do something to differentiate that people actually want besides TV/SPORTS/APPS.
As with PS4K, I don't see the point at all. But I guess the option for those who want more power every few years is neat. I just know that I am not going to be buying new systems every 3 years, lol. That is barely even enough time to make a good game. Once I buy a console, I want software for years to make it worth my purchase, not more hardware before the gen even gets going.
Look, I dont think MS will actually do this. It's more my hypothetical argument of how to get people to return. It is pie in the sky. As far as the chart goes, the pop up conveniently covers part of the chart, but if you look at the whole thing, MS consistently growing the software gap over sony in the first few years and consistently losing the software gap in the later years. Keep extrapolating and their market is going away. We already repeatedly see games coming late or never to the Xbox. Keep doing that and you sell less hardware which makes less games come to the system in an ever going cycle.
My question to you is, what CAN make people come back to the MS brand. I do not believe it is just hardware power. MS needs to do something to differentiate that people actually want besides TV/SPORTS/APPS.
Why do think all those loyal subjects left?
People are more informed than some give credit for. The Xbone is only 2/3 the console of the PS4. The PS4 could be advertised as the stronger console for less money.
DRM, kinect and TV TV TV aside, do you think the Xbox team would have jumped ship leaving their preferred exclusives, superior online and generally considered the superior controller, if the xbone launched as it is today but the same or slightly greater power than the PS4?
The pop up is me hovering over it show the percentages, rather than having you guess the size of the bars. You can see it here. The previous bar is 6:9 in PS4's favor... the spread has remained mostly consistent. The 360 was a different console, and so it's numbers against the PS3 aren't indicative of a trend (generational shift). If anything the 360's performance is a reason why this makes less sense, as each console generation (at least up to now when they were clearly defined) presents an opportunity for large shifts in momentum. Putting Steam on Xbox is dangerous for numerous reasons... firstly that clearly defined generations don't exist for it, and also because the next shift could very easily be Valve taking its nearly bolstered Steam customer base as extracting them out of the Xbox ecosystem entirely once gen 9 rolls around. They would have what they've currently lacked up until now... a built in console presence. Meanwhile MS would have whoever didn't just see their amassed libraries transfer away with Valve.
I get that everything you (and I) are saying is theoretical, and based on assumptions... but that doesn't prevent the logic from being extremely faulty, and some of what you're claiming (software not selling on Xbox) from just being outright false. You seem to think that MS is interested in selling the hardware above selling the services.. which goes against everything they've been saying, and every action they've been taking up until this point. You're not talking about people returning to Xbox... you're talking about people moving to Steam, and treating the Xbox as a cheap baseline PC (which would quickly become interchangeable with any other cheap PC).
As for what CAN bring people back to Xbox? I dunno (which is why I'm not being employed to run the division I guess). Though I would say that maintaining a decent level of hardware parity and then launching strong next gen would definitely help. The Windows 10 stuff would also be useful if they offer interchangeability between playing on PC and console whilst only having to buy the software once. Basically, they should be trying to provide the things that you suggest Steam would give them... without actually giving their audience over to Steam. Flesh out the Windows Store, make it competitive and then let the combined market between it and Xbox One mean that skipping either as a publisher is unappealing.
I'm not sure I understand the question here. If you are saying that back in 2013 when MS made the Xbox one announcement and:
- Didnt include horrendous DRM
- Didnt include Kinect
- Didnt focus on TV and Sports
- And was more powerful or even the same power as the PS4
- Didnt have abysmal messaging trying to make up for the above
That I think people would have stayed in the Xbox ecosystem? Of course I do! I personally feel massive amounts of people would have rolled strait from the 360 to the Xbox One. I think it would have been a much closer race than it is now. Given how MS has treated countries outside of the US and UK, I think they still would be behind, but not by a greater than 2 to 1 and counting.
I agree that MS's focus is on selling software, i just think they need to sell more hardware to do it. I also wasnt trying to sell the point that they sell NO software, only that they sell less than PS4 and I believe that is trending down. If you look at your chart plus monthly NPD's that is my interpretation.
I like what they are doing with PC and Xbox cross play and in some cases cross buy. I just dont think its enough to get people to move back.
For games they are selling less to none of (third party games like assassins creed)
As for people not buying from the MS store, they are not doing that now. Things that are exclusive to Xbox will still be bought through their store.
What we really need to think about is what would ACTUALLY bring people back to the Xbox
You guys don't seem to get how this works.
The XBox didn't lose anyone to get back,t hey are gaing more peopl then they did before at a first time, just that the sales of the PS3 and some of the Wii went to the PS4 from last gen, that's literally it.
Let's say Xbox one for the sake of example is at 20 and we use the 35.9 (I believe that is the correct one) number for Sony, and say the Wii U sold 10.5 sold through.
that's about 66 million put together not too different from this same point last gen. Just that a lot of the dead Wii sales went to PS4. Xbox One is getting the 360 sales and then some.
But you don't need the newest ones to play the newest games. according to the mention of forward compatible.. sooo.... your purchase of any playstation or xbox going forward will play playstation or xbox games. you're good.
Xbox breakout: Xbox devices
I think it's as it states.
Xbox will be made available on many more devices.
(Mobiles and Surface).
How do people come up with this stuff?Sounds like the Xbox brand is going to be phased out over time... I wouldn't be surprised to see a Steam type of box, and then nothing.
It already is, so that's not news.
More interested in the Happy Hour.
How do people come up with this stuff?
LOL, I know and that is why I said I don't care. I'm just saying that I still don't see the point because nobody asked for this. We are just now starting to get this gen going and they want to sell us more hardware that takes value away from the systems we just bought by being more powerful? Okay, good luck with not pissing a bunch of people off. Now I am not mad, I just am saying this is going to happen.
Personally, I'm good with the Xbox One and PS4 OG models that I already bought. All I expect are games to make those purchases worthwhile, not more powerful versions of the same systems I already own that will play all of the same games. Again, I don't care. I simply think it is stupid, too early and completely unnecessary after sitting back and thinking about it all. But a niche crowd of hardcore tech heads that like to constantly buy hardware will dig it. Good for them, I guess.
I really don't understand the obession over graphics, we don't need better graphics..we need better games. Right now games this gen have been a disaster on a whole, the only game that I truly LOVED was Witcher 3, for 3 years into a gen that's pretty bad.
Xbox 360 90+ metacritics in first 3 years:
Xbox One 90+ 3 years in:
* Not completely 3 years in so maybe not a fair comparison, but I think we can all agree it's not coming close to the 360's first 3 years by the end of 2016.
Out of those, the only one that's not on 360 is Witcher 3 and that probably could have been a 360 game aswell.
Maybe it's just me but I wish publishers/developers would stop caring about shiny pretty graphics and just focus on making great games and more powerful hardware isn't going to do that, it's only going to feed the mindset that games need pretty graphics.
Sackboy avatar.
Sounds like the Xbox brand is going to be phased out over time... I wouldn't be surprised to see a Steam type of box, and then nothing.
I guess they will fade out the console and continue with a service.. why not xbox games as a service on sony hardware...
Bolded - Which is it?
Doesn't matter if you think its stupid. People think chicken & waffle potato chips are stupid - guess what? there is a market for them.
To the point...
Obviously there are a group of market researchers, teams across internal and external companies with compelling data to make this a reality. I dont think someone in either company just sit back and thought this would be a good idea and told all of their peons to make it happen. So sit back again and think hard on how this approach is stupid across the ever evolving purchasing habits of human beings across multiple demographics, in multiple contries with multiple ways to spend money.
Guess what else? I'm not a hardcore tech head but i plan on buying the newer systems. *gasp
EL OH EL
Sounds like the Xbox brand is going to be phased out over time...
Sounds like the Xbox brand is going to be phased out over time... I wouldn't be surprised to see a Steam type of box, and then nothing.
I hear what you are saying, but if you tell me that the vast majority of Wii sales are up for grabs (Given Wii U is around 13mm), and those Wii sales are choosing a different, more mainstream console system, Then feel that a Wii user that goes to the PS4 is a lost customer for MS. That customer had a choice of 2 major console companies when moving away from Nintendo. That is a sale waiting to happen. If they chose the competitor it is a lost sale.
Look, I dont think MS will actually do this. It's more my hypothetical argument of how to get people to return. It is pie in the sky. As far as the chart goes, the pop up conveniently covers part of the chart, but if you look at the whole thing, MS consistently growing the software gap over sony in the first few years and consistently losing the software gap in the later years. Keep extrapolating and their market is going away. We already repeatedly see games coming late or never to the Xbox. Keep doing that and you sell less hardware which makes less games come to the system in an ever going cycle.
My question to you is, what CAN make people come back to the MS brand. I do not believe it is just hardware power. MS needs to do something to differentiate that people actually want besides TV/SPORTS/APPS.
Getting people to return is easy. Build a strong box at a great value and respect their wishes by not bundling Peripherals like Kinect. That's what made the 360 successful. You had the arcade which was a cheap entry and the standard with the HD.
Unfortunately, I just dont think that would pull in more users mid-gen. Someone already built a strong box at a great value and respected their wishes by not bundling in bullshit. Sony.
I'm not sure I understand the question here. If you are saying that back in 2013 when MS made the Xbox one announcement and:
- Didnt include horrendous DRM
- Didnt include Kinect
- Didnt focus on TV and Sports
- And was more powerful or even the same power as the PS4
- Didnt have abysmal messaging trying to make up for the above
That I think people would have stayed in the Xbox ecosystem? Of course I do! I personally feel massive amounts of people would have rolled strait from the 360 to the Xbox One. I think it would have been a much closer race than it is now. Given how MS has treated countries outside of the US and UK, I think they still would be behind, but not by a greater than 2 to 1 and counting.