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[Me_Marcadet]

Here's the video of the banding effect :

http://youtu.be/mCWqZ7K0RI0

Level S6-5, so at the end of the game, sorry.



You can also see the edge shimmering but it's not very conclusive.


If I must describe the two displays, I would say the IPS is better at handling detailed 3d games and for all 2d games, results may vary between the content displayed, you could have cases where the picture is clearly better than the TN display and some where it's worse. Majora's mask, smash bros and MH4 all look better on the IPS display, NSMB 3D land and pullblox look better on the TN.
The TN display is very consistent and will handle all content the same no matter what.

If the gamma level of the TN display was properly calibrated, it would be a clear winner for me, even with the black trail issue on light background.

For me it's a matter of trading acurate gamma level against consistency, gamma level are winning but it's a close one and I can't say I'm satisfied with the IPS display.


EDIT: First ghost house is M4-4 and you can see awfull case of banding on the yellow moving platform and on red carpet. I Think it has something to do on how the game is rendered in those stages specificaly. I don't remember the effect being this ugly on the TN display. The artists must have created those stage with the TN display in mind and the IPS doesn't work well with the dark/foggy atmosphere.

 

[DavidDesu]

Getting a bonus payment on Friday (Bloodborne day!) and I was considering a New 3DS. Admittedly I'm only flirting with the idea. I'm not sure how much use I'd really get out of it. I have a Vita packed with great games but I barely touch it.

Having said all that though this issue is a pretty dire state of affairs and has certainly put me off completely for now. I hate the idea of buying one and getting the inferior product. And it does seem to be inferior. Bolder, brighter colours, better viewing angles and a better 3D effect completely outweighs any negatives the IPS might have over the other display type. I'd seriously not feel happy with my purchase if I knew I got the lower quality component. It's as simple as that. I hate when companies do this, and I know even TV manufacturers, selling a specific display can even get caught using two wholly differently sourced parts. There should be consumer laws against this.

 

[big_z]

can you pull up a grey gradient something like this on both tn/ips screens and check if you see the rainbow banding.

also if you bring up a solid light grey or white screen can you see any banding on the ips? try with the brightness on medium and high to see if either makes it more visible.


in the video its hard to tell with the 3ds moving so much but when you rotate the camera it looks like the color bands run across the entire screen and never shift. normally banding changes along with picture movement. ive seen hdtvs with this type of banding and its a manufacturing defect. hopefully someone with an ips can double check on that Mario stage. I have the game but I don't have a save beyond world 2 atm.

 

[Yrael]

Here's the video of the banding effect :

http://youtu.be/mCWqZ7K0RI0

Level S6-5, so at the end of the game, sorry.

Ah gotcha, thanks! Okay, I'm playing through the level...and ooh, okay, now I think I see what you mean, though it's not a big effect. Here it is on my IPS screen:

However, they're actually also visible to me on my TN screen (have the game on cartridge), so it doesn't seem to be an IPS thing - I think perhaps it stands out on IPS just a bit more because of the better contrast:

The tiled floor of World 4-4 on the IPS:

The tiled floor of World 4-4 on the TN:

I've got to say though that the effect is virtually invisible to me everywhere else, and even here I only really notice it because I'm looking out for it.

can you pull up a grey gradient something like this on both tn/ips screens and check if you see the rainbow banding.

also if you bring up a solid light grey or white screen can you see any banding on the ips? try with the brightness on medium and high to see if either makes it more visible.


in the video its hard to tell with the 3ds moving so much but when you rotate the camera it looks like the color bands run across the entire screen and never shift. normally banding changes along with picture movement. ive seen hdtvs with this type of banding and its a manufacturing defect. hopefully someone with an ips can double check on that Mario stage. I have the game but I don't have a save beyond world 2 atm.

Here's that grey gradient on the IPS:

And on the TN:

 

[Me_Marcadet]

Seems to be an effect of the rendering on this level.
I got no issue on all grey/white picture and the grey gradient looks fine too.

 

[big_z]

Seems to be an effect of the rendering on this level.
I got no issue on all grey/white picture and the grey gradient looks fine too.

yeah the gradients would show it if its a panel limitation. since you can still see it in both of Yraels pics it seems normal. its possible the 3ds outputs limited color like the gamecube and wii did, which also suffered from color banding at times.

 

[Naked Snake]

So IPS is still better? Jesus Christ I don't know anymore.

 

[eighty(one)]

Ah gotcha, thanks! Okay, I'm playing through the level...and ooh, okay, now I think I see what you mean, though it's not a big effect. Here it is on my IPS screen:



However, they're actually also visible to me on my TN screen (have the game on cartridge), so it doesn't seem to be an IPS thing - I think perhaps it stands out on IPS just a bit more because of the better contrast:



The tiled floor of World 4-4 on the IPS:



The tiled floor of World 4-4 on the TN:



I've got to say though that the effect is virtually invisible to me everywhere else, and even here I only really notice it because I'm looking out for it.



Here's that grey gradient on the IPS:



And on the TN:

These pictures should seal the deal, for anybody.

The contrast of shaders/shadow/lighting employed on the cubes, the spikes on the cubes and even Luigi: IPS.

 

[ghibli99]

I guess mine's IPS since I'm totally happy with it. But then again, maybe it's not. Don't know, don't care, looks good to me.

 

[Namikaze]

I got the IPS screen on the top, now it makes sense why games like PW vs. Layton on the New XL looked a step above anything I saw on my OG 3D. The game looks so much more vibrant that it feels like a new experience overall (the bigger screen helps a lot too).

 

[Me_Marcadet]

These pictures should seal the deal, for anybody.

The contrast of shaders/shadow/lighting employed on the cubes, the spikes on the cubes and even Luigi: IPS.

I clearly disagree. It's a matter of taste. The contrast makes the aliasing in the game way more noticeable, what you refer as more details, I call them ugly artefacts who mess with the art direction of the game. There's also the scanline effect who messes with the clarity of the picture.

In NSMB3DLand case, even with the fucked up gamma, I prefer the TN display.

The IPS really shines with games filled with details like MH4, smash bros or majora's mask. The better contrast and gamma really enhance the picture you can see more details and the edge don't pop ou like on simpler games cases.

For 2d games, the IPS is also a winner due to the lack ofblue dark trail on fast moving objects over lighter backgrounds.

The better viewing angles add nothing IMO and they should not be used as an argument because even with the IPS display, you must be in front of the screen to get the better PQ.

What makes me keep the IPS over the TN is mainly the better gamma levels and because I didn't go through the hassle of getting one and getting my data transfered for nothing.

The IPS display is slightly better but not without flaws and it clearly doesn't make the TN display a bad one or a poor choice.
The improvement over the OG 3DSXL display is huge with the new TN and the IPS is on the same level as an upgrade, people mustn't feel cheated if they got a good TN.

If nintendo ever use a new TN display with correct gamma levels I swear I will be tempted to get one !

 

[Naked Snake]

In what ways is the new TN better than the old XL's screen? You keep saying it's a huge improvement but I'm having a hard time imagining it. Has anyone posted side by side comparisons between the two?

I'm specifically interested in the New XL TN display vs the OG XL.

 

[Me_Marcadet]

Way better color reproduction, better viewing angle, way more clarity (the OG XL feels like there's filter who wash out the picture), better handling of movement on screen. It's night and day. I will quotem yself from the launch thread before I was aware of this IPS display thing :

One of the reason to upgrade is the new screens. While still not perfect, they are so much better. I want to replay all my game with the improved IQ of the screens. Another reason is the built quality, It don't feel like the unit will crumble between your hands anymore, it's very sturdy. The sound quality is improved too. It's one of the better nintendo handheld upgrade, and at 200€/$ it'd rather should be.

Yes, you don't have this filter (wich I assume was caused by the pixel barrier) going on and off when switching between 3D and 2D mode.

Man, I'm playing more with the IPS and I really don't know what should I keep.
I found out that in smash bros, there also color banding on lot of skyboxes and while it's still present on the TN display, the IPS one make them really stick out even without focusing on whereas I need to look for them on the TN display.
I'm starting to notice the scanline a lot two.

It's really a hard choice between gamma levels and picture clarity at this point. I really don't know what to chose, I will never be satisfied with both of the display... This thread killed my enjoyement of the new 3DSXL lol

Seriously, the perfect display would be a TN one with good color reproduction and gamma levels, the better contrast of the IPS display is messing too much with art direction in games. I want a TN display with better gamma or a IPS display with not as strong contrast and no scanlines.

 

[Yrael]

I used to have an OG 3DS XL, but I sold it last year. From what I remember of it, I think the colours and contrast are better on the TN new 3DS XL than they were on that unit. Unfortunately though I can't make a direct comparison to confirm whether or not my memory is correct.

This all goes to show though that individual taste can vary a large amount, so not everyone will prefer the same type of panel. Personally though, the more time I spend with the IPS screen, the more I prefer it over the other one (I think most people probably would, judging from reactions). The vibrant colours are fantastic. Today might be the last day I have my TN n3DS XL at hand, so I'll take more comparison photos between various games later while I still have the chance.

Edit:

I will never be satisfied with both of the display... This thread killed my enjoyement of the new 3DSXL lol

Aw.

 

[big_z]

I clearly disagree. It's a matter of taste. The contrast makes the aliasing in the game way more noticeable, what you refer as more details, I call them ugly artefacts who mess with the art direction of the game. There's also the scanline effect who messes with the clarity of the picture.

Do you actually see the scan line effect I originally mentioned or are you talking about the banding issue which both screens suffer but is more noticeable on ips like in that one Mario level?

I know aliasing annoys some people but trying to hide it by reducing contrast and washing out the picture isn't the solution. It would have been nice if Nintendo allowed for optional simple AA with older games by using the extra system power.

 

[CrazyMoonTalk]

In what ways is the new TN better than the old XL's screen? You keep saying it's a huge improvement but I'm having a hard time imagining it. Has anyone posted side by side comparisons between the two?

I'm specifically interested in the New XL TN display vs the OG XL.

I'm at work now. I can post some pictures of my new TN 3DS XL next my old OG XL later on, but I only have a cellphone camera to use.

The difference is noticeable irl though. I can attest to that.

The viewing angle is slightly better. The screen is brighter. Colors less washed out.

It's a clear upgrade.

 

[Me_Marcadet]

Do you actually see the scan line effect I originally mentioned or are you talking about the banding issue which both screens suffer but is more noticeable on ips like in that one Mario level?

I know aliasing annoys some people but trying to hide it by reducing contrast and washing out the picture isn't the solution. It would have been nice if Nintendo allowed for optional simple AA with older games by using the extra system power.

I'm talking about the true scanline effect, I didn't pick it up at first (I didn't played much too), but once I did, I can't stop focusing on it.

But now I spotted the thing I hate most about the IPS display :

The IPS screen makes the banding issues and the halo around the characters stick out way more. In picture, the difference is subtle but in real life, the halo and banding is noticeable without looking for them wheareas I wouldn't have the idea to check them on the TN display if I didn't see them on the IPS.

Maybe the IPS display is a better monitor in the sense it's more acurate and reproduce raw image with better reproduction fidelity, but I like the way the TN display hide the shortcomings of the 3D rendering. It makes me think the games are designed for this display because there is no way an artist will be satisfied with banding and halo artefacts.

I took this picture as reference :

And the IPS display is closer to the way the picture is displayed on my plasma TV, but I really love the fact that the banding and the halo around the characters and the green hill in the background are less noticeable...

Do you think correct gamma levels on the TN display will reveal the same issue as on the IPS display regarding banding and halo ? It would make me feel better about keeping the IPS.

 

[MrBS]

Just got my n3DS in the mail. Right in time for Xenoblade! I will have to have to check the screen later. In other news it wasn't until right now when I held the thing that it dawned on me Ninty has gone back to gloss finish after the glorious matte of the XL. Why ninty

 

[Me_Marcadet]

Pokemon heart gold is another game where the IPS makes the art less appealing. It's not until I played it on the IPS that I discovered how ugly the background is in battle. The title screen also looks less messy on the TN...

I just wanted to genuinely play the game and I only switched the cart between the two consoles for twenty minutes...

 

[big_z]

Pokemon heart gold is another game where the IPS makes the art less appealing. It's not until I played it on the IPS that I discovered how ugly the background is in battle. The title screen also looks less messy on the TN...

I just wanted to genuinely play the game and I only switched the cart between the two consoles for twenty minutes...

Pokemon heart gold has a lot of color banding. Look at direct feed screen grabs of the title screen and it looks just as bad. It's just the way the game is. The tn might hide some of the flaws but its not displaying as accurate of picture.

Is there anything super noticeable with Mario kart 7 that bothers you. I might be able to compare tn, ips and og XL screens.

 

[HowardRoark]

How do I definitively tell if I have an IPS panel? I feel like I do, given that the screen looks great almost every viewing angle. Seriously, when I rotate it it goes out of view before I notice it washing out at all. Really incredible.

 

[Frostinferno]

How do I definitively tell if I have an IPS panel? I feel like I do, given that the screen looks great almost every viewing angle. Seriously, when I rotate it it goes out of view before I notice it washing out at all. Really incredible.

If it looks good from every angle it's an IPS panel. The TN panels very quickly wash out when you tilt the screen.

 

[Naked Snake]

Me_Marcadet, do your observations of the shortcomings or the things that bother you about the screens hold true in 3D mode as well as 2D? I ask because it seems that all comparisons/pics are made or taken in 2D mode, but from my experience with the old 3DS there is a HUGE perceived difference in image quality between 2D and 3D... 2D always looks washed out and blurry to me on my OG 3DS and XL, whereas 3D looks sharp and vibrant (in comparison). It's a night and day difference and if a game supports 3D then I always play in 3D.

So if the problems or differences between the IPS and TN are more/only noticeable in 2D, then that wouldn't affect me much since I don't play in 2D.

 

[Thoraxes]

This affected all Vita, it's not the same thing as selling an item with two different display technologies.

Oh I probably remembered wrong. But I do think that there were varying degrees of badness between each unit, if the old thread is anything to go by.

 

[Naked Snake]

Also, I think seperate comparison pics are almost pointless unless you are making sure to take each photo with the same camera settings (f-stop, shutter speed, ISO) and from the exact same distance. If you're using a camera/phone that auto adjusts with each snap then you should take a single of both screens at once to make a valid comparison of brightness and colors.

You could try using the different colored Themes in the Home menu if you can't run the same game on both at the same time (the black theme might be helpful for checking gamma).

 

[Me_Marcadet]

Oh I probably remembered wrong. But I do think that there were varying degrees of badness between each unit, if the old thread is anything to go by.

It's true, but it's would be also the case with the 3ds even if nintendo would have used only one type of display too. On top of the lottery of the type of display, you also have the lottery of calibration, and also the general build quality of the handheld (my IPS 3ds has a worst build quality than the TN one). I find it crazy that you can buy several units with so much differences.

Pokemon heart gold has a lot of color banding. Look at direct feed screen grabs of the title screen and it looks just as bad. It's just the way the game is. The tn might hide some of the flaws but its not displaying as accurate of picture.

Is there anything super noticeable with Mario kart 7 that bothers you. I might be able to compare tn, ips and og XL screens.

I'm aware of the accuracy, but I can't stop thinking that hiding the banding is not a flaw because it looks clearly better. I would love to have the insight of a Nintendo dev.
I'm try Mario kart later.

Edit:I played a grand prix on both display and I might actually like the IPS better for mk7, both screen looks good. I think the issues I have with the IPS are noticeable in games where the camera is mostly static like sm3dland, pullblox, smash bros, I have more time to focus on the banding and the scanline effect. /edit

Me_Marcadet, do your observations of the shortcomings or the things that bother you about the screens hold true in 3D mode as well as 2D? I ask because it seems that all comparisons/pics are made or taken in 2D mode, but from my experience with the old 3DS there is a HUGE perceived difference in image quality between 2D and 3D... 2D always looks washed out and blurry to me on my OG 3DS and XL, whereas 3D looks sharp and vibrant (in comparison). It's a night and day difference and if a game supports 3D then I always play in 3D.

So if the problems or differences between the IPS and TN are more/only noticeable in 2D, then that wouldn't affect me much since I don't play in 2D.

One of the biggest upgrade on the new TN and IPS display is that there's not so much difference in PQ between 2D and 3d. On the OG 3ds it felt like you removed a filter when switching, but it's not the case anymore, or at least the effect is nowhere near as strong. 2D mode is now a accurate for what you see in 3d, if the game don't add AA in 2d of course.

Also, I think seperate comparison pics are almost pointless unless you are making sure to take each photo with the same camera settings (f-stop, shutter speed, ISO) and from the exact same distance. If you're using a camera/phone that auto adjusts with each snap then you should take a single of both screens at once to make a valid comparison of brightness and colors.

You could try using the different colored Themes in the Home menu if you can't run the same game on both at the same time (the black theme might be helpful for checking gamma).

Well I just wanted to show issues with the banding. Your absolutely right if we want to compare color and brightness.

 

[Yrael]

Also, I think seperate comparison pics are almost pointless unless you are making sure to take each photo with the same camera settings (f-stop, shutter speed, ISO) and from the exact same distance. If you're using a camera/phone that auto adjusts with each snap then you should take a single of both screens at once to make a valid comparison of brightness and colors.

You could try using the different colored Themes in the Home menu if you can't run the same game on both at the same time (the black theme might be helpful for checking gamma).

Yeah, that's why the Pokemon comparison pictures below are better (Pokemon X and Pokemon Y) than the Ocarina of Time 3D pictures, since I was able to compare the two 3DSes directly - I only have one cartridge of OoT3D.

For the below comparisons, brightness settings are identical (maximum, power savings and auto brightness off). IPS is on the left (in a Hori protector case), TN is on the right (and in French, heh.

Spoiler

I did this mainly for the Masuda Method

).

For these Ocarina of Time 3D comparisons, necessary disclaimer that I tried to make sure conditions were identical, but I can't 100% guarantee it (particularly for the Hyrule field pictures, given that the lighting changes according to the time of day in-game). I would definitely say though that the IPS panel has bolder colours in-person. Again, brightness settings were identical.

IPS:

TN:

I've tried to see what others call a flickering scanline (or interlacing effect)...but I have to admit I'm having difficulty seeing it with the naked eye (cameras are better at showing up the dark horizontal lines between pixels, particularly on a high contrast screen). If I look very closely while scrolling around on the home menu, I think I can faintly see something like the flicker effect on both screens, but it's very hard to detect. Perhaps my eyes aren't really sensitive enough...

 

[CrazyMoonTalk]

What the fuck is going on with the IPS screen in this picture. Christ that looks bad.

There are faint traces of that rainbow/scanline effect on the TN screen, but on the IPS it's incredibly pronounced.

 

[Naked Snake]

It seems to me that the difference between the two is not that large in terms of colors, and each have their own kind of problems. So if I get one I think I'll go with the lottery of ordering one online instead of paying $100 more for the ability to choose which one I get from a local shop.

 

[Yrael]

What the fuck is going on with the IPS screen in this picture. Christ that looks bad.

There are faint traces of that rainbow/scanline effect on the TN screen, but on the IPS it's incredibly pronounced.

I think that might be one of the few times I actually caught the scanline effect (?) at its most pronounced on camera. It's not always that bad though, even in the same location of the game - I have another capture taken within seconds of that one:

The contrast still looks perhaps a bit too high on the IPS though when it comes to that small alcove/cave at the back.

 

[Me_Marcadet]

It seems to me that the difference between the two is not that large in terms of colors, and each have their own kind of problems. So if I get one I think I'll go with the lottery of ordering one online instead of paying $100 more for the ability to choose which one I get from a local shop.

Like I said, the only big fault of the TN is the higher gamma who washes out the picture and make thinks too much bright.
You should ponder if it's something that will bother you enough to spend 100$ more and deal with others issues in the process.

The upgrade from TN to IPS will cost me around 40€ and I kinda regret it, mainly because I've gotten a loose hinge on the new one on top of the side effect of the IPS screen, and I don't find the improvements are worth the trade. It's cool but rather subtle... I would be more cool if the hinge was as good.

If you want a comparaison scale:

OG3DSXL > n3DSXL TN : huge upgrade, all my games feel completely fresh and my enjoyment of the system is greatly improved
TN display > IPS: well I can see some improvement but I'm not sure and there's new think I don't like, got the same feeling of new discovery on my games as with the TN

If you familiar with psp model, I found the upgrade from 1000 to 2000 very note worthy and the upgrade from 2000 to PSP Go was also very cool.

The upgrade from OG3DSXL to N3dsxl is on par with the upgrade from the psp 1000 to the go.

Thanks for the pics, very nice job. You can really see the more natural look of the TN screen (The books on the right looks better IMO) and the more prononced jaggies on the IPS. You can also see the scanline effect who mess with the PQ.
It's also a very good example of how the gamma level on the TN fucks up with the picture.

I think it's fair to use them as an official face-off to help people make a decision.

 

[eighty(one)]

Yeah, that's why the Pokemon comparison pictures below are better (Pokemon X and Pokemon Y) than the Ocarina of Time 3D pictures, since I was able to compare the two 3DSes directly - I only have one cartridge of OoT3D.

For the below comparisons, brightness settings are identical (maximum, power savings and auto brightness off). IPS is on the left (in a Hori protector case), TN is on the right (and in French, heh.

Spoiler

I did this mainly for the Masuda Method

).



For these Ocarina of Time 3D comparisons, necessary disclaimer that I tried to make sure conditions were identical, but I can't 100% guarantee it (particularly for the Hyrule field pictures, given that the lighting changes according to the time of day in-game). I would definitely say though that the IPS panel has bolder colours in-person. Again, brightness settings were identical.

IPS:


TN:



I've tried to see what others call a flickering scanline (or interlacing effect)...but I have to admit I'm having difficulty seeing it with the naked eye (cameras are better at showing up the dark horizontal lines between pixels, particularly on a high contrast screen). If I look very closely while scrolling around on the home menu, I think I can faintly see something like the flicker effect on both screens, but it's very hard to detect. Perhaps my eyes aren't really sensitive enough...

My issue with the TN:

It looks washed out and bland.

The black levels on the IPS add contrast to surfaces and textures, giving a more 'bump map' iullusion to said textures.

I'd like to see a comparison of RE Revelations, MH3/4U, Ace Combat, Nano Assault and their ilk compared - across IPS/TN.

If I'd kept the TN, I'd do it

I'm super interested in this topic, though.

 

[TheBanditKing]

Nintendo needs to get their QC in check, I read half the first post and was immediately excited, beter colors, IPS top screen all good stuff. Read further and find out the same yellow tinted BS they have been putting out since after the first run of the DS Lite is still an issue. buying a new Nintendo handheld has been way too frustrating because of this nonsense. I once got a DS that has a yellow top screen and a pink bottom.

 

[big_z]

What the fuck is going on with the IPS screen in this picture. Christ that looks bad.

There are faint traces of that rainbow/scanline effect on the TN screen, but on the IPS it's incredibly pronounced.

its a moire pattern caused by the autofocus of the camera focusing on the left screen and not the right. thats why you see it a bit on the left portion of the tn screen but not the rest. its hard to take pictures of 3DS screens while avoiding it.

Thanks for the pics, very nice job. You can really see the more natural look of the TN screen (The books on the right looks better IMO) and the more prononced jaggies on the IPS. You can also see the scanline effect who mess with the PQ.
It's also a very good example of how the gamma level on the TN fucks up with the picture.

looks the same to me just washed out on the tn screen. again the camera appears to have focused mainly on the left screen leaving a majority of the tn screen looking soft.

in this example Yrael posted you can see the camera focused on the tn, instead of the ips.

I think youre confusing the scanline effect with the actual pixel spacing on the 3ds. the scanline issue im not sure can be picked up in still pictures since its more of a flicker effect.

 

[Maintenance]

Thanks for the Pokemon comparison pics, what a shame I got the shitty TN one.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Some of you are shelling out money to get another screen? Ouch.

I have a TN and would rather have an IPS but I'm not dealing with Gamestop/Nintendo customer support just to play the lottery and potentially lose money.

It's a shame Amazon doesn't sell this in the US. Otherwise I would play that lottery as they have a rather "no questions asked" exchange policy. I went through 6 Nexus 9s to get a decent unit with Amazon, lol. (Nexus 9 is plagued with light bleed and mushy button issues)

Sucks, but ah well. I'd rather have a washed out screen than other hardware faults.

 

[Yrael]

Glad the comparison pictures are helpful.

its a moire pattern caused by the autofocus of the camera focusing on the left screen and not the right. thats why you see it a bit on the left portion of the tn screen but not the rest. its hard to take pictures of 3DS screens while avoiding it.




looks the same to me just washed out on the tn screen. again the camera appears to have focused mainly on the left screen leaving a majority of the tn screen looking soft.

in this example Yrael posted you can see the camera focused on the tn, instead of the ips.

I think youre confusing the scanline effect with the actual pixel spacing on the 3ds. the scanline issue im not sure can be picked up in still pictures since its more of a flicker effect.

The moiré pattern (caused by interlaced scanning) makes sense. The dark lines that occasionally show up in photos like that are not really something that I tend to see in person - but the autofocus of the camera can show up the lines. I took more than one photo of each scene though so I can post those if need be.

By the way, I sold one of my n3DS XL units today (the one with the TN screen), so I'm afraid I can't take any new comparison pictures from here on out. I'm happy with the choice I made though - I definitely prefer the IPS panel.

 

[Naked Snake]

Some of you are shelling out money to get another screen? Ouch.

I have a TN and would rather have an IPS but I'm not dealing with Gamestop/Nintendo customer support just to play the lottery and potentially lose money.

It's a shame Amazon doesn't sell this in the US. Otherwise I would play that lottery as they have a rather "no questions asked" exchange policy. I went through 6 Nexus 9s to get a decent unit with Amazon, lol. (Nexus 9 is plagued with light bleed and mushy button issues)

Sucks, but ah well. I'd rather have a washed out screen than other hardware faults.

Yeah why doesn't Amazon sell the New 3DS XL? I went looking for it there last night and all I found were scalper listings and Japanese units. I was confused.

 

[Yrael]

Yeah why doesn't Amazon sell the New 3DS XL? I went looking for it there last night and all I found were scalper listings and Japanese units. I was confused.

I don't think they sell any Nintendo consoles at all (the ones available on the site are fulfilled by Amazon only, not sold by them). It's something that's been going on for a while. I've heard rumours about a conflict between (US) Amazon and Nintendo over return policies and scratched 3DS screens, but I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed.

 

[Naked Snake]

I don't think they sell any Nintendo consoles at all (the ones available on the site are fulfilled by Amazon only, not sold by them). It's something that's been going on for a while. I've heard rumours about a conflict between (US) Amazon and Nintendo over return policies and scratched 3DS screens, but I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed.

That sucks. I was hoping to order one from there. Don't feel confident about playing Nintendo's lottery now...

Also seems foolish on Nintendo's part to burn their bridge with the largest online retailer in the US. Nintendo's gonna Nintendo.

 

[big_z]

Glad the comparison pictures are helpful.

The moiré pattern (caused by interlaced scanning) makes sense. The dark lines that occasionally show up in photos like that are not really something that I tend to see in person - but the autofocus of the camera can show up the lines. I took more than one photo of each scene though so I can post those if need be.

By the way, I sold one of my n3DS XL units today (the one with the TN screen), so I'm afraid I can't take any new comparison pictures from here on out. I'm happy with the choice I made though - I definitely prefer the IPS panel.

yea the moiré pattern makes direct comparisons hard since it looks like flaws that aren't really there. its dependent on camera focus. however its not the scanline issue.

the scanline thing is something the GBA and dslite could also suffered from but there was a way to fix it on those systems by adjusting the potentiometers(3ds lacks these). there was a youtube video apparently showing the effect but its gone down recently. its hard to explain unless you know exactly what youre looking for but it does look kinda like the flicker on the contra gif I posted. I went back and checked my dslite and I could see it slightly in very select spots when playing mario but its faint enough its a non issue. I suspect the same applies to most 3ds screens and its why people are confusing it with the pixel spacing. I did come across some people claiming they have the issue on their OG 3ds or touch screen so it seems like another random calibration problem. A handful of people seem to have gotten units where its clearly visible but so far it seems to be a much rarer issue than stuff like the poor color calibration.

Yeah why doesn't Amazon sell the New 3DS XL? I went looking for it there last night and all I found were scalper listings and Japanese units. I was confused.

the most detail explanation I found was this: (don't know if its true)

the Amazon vs. Nintendo squabble about selling 3DS consoles has been dragging on for about a year. Supposedly, it all started off last year when the 3DS launch was less than stellar. Amazon had a lot of unsold 3DS consoles sitting around their warehouses, and they decided to start demanding a bigger wholesaler discount - equal to what Wal-Mart receives. (The Amazon vs. Wal-Mart soap opera is for another thread.)

Anyway, this request was flatly denied. Amazon requested permission to sell the consoles at a discount. Denied again. To strengthen their case, and try to bully their way into the bigger discount, Amazon complained that they have to replace a lot of the systems because of the screen scratching problem, and starting making a big production about sending each and every one back to Nintendo, wanting a full & immediate credit, which started to overwhelm Nintendo's intake for seconds merchandise, which started to make Nintendo really mad, because Amazon was sending over units that had such slight, almost nonexistent problems, that they were not used to being bothered with such trivial things. (Supposedly.) Previously, and for other consoles, Amazon just sold returned (working) consoles at a discount on their "Warehouse Deals" page, which Nintendo doesn't like, but Amazon claimed that they were losing ALL their profit margin on 3DSes with shipping faulty systems back to NOA, as well as dealing with unhappy customers that were leaving and/or not spending as much as previously.

Nintendo smelled bullshit (and rightly so!) and fired back and said that there WAS no problem with the scratching, and there was no way they were going to piss off all the other big wholesalers by giving Amazon a sweeter deal (when Nintendo already considers Amazon the scourge of the business world for not having any brick & mortar stores - which is why Amazon wasn't getting the Wal-Mart discount in the first place!) Now keep in mind, this was all going down right about the time the price drop was announced, which was another thing that pissed off Amazon. Nobody was buying 3DSes after the price drop was announced, and Amazon does not like having a warehouse full of crap that's not moving. Their business model is structured around moving out cold merchandise by marking stuff down (which of course Nintendo will not allow them to do on consoles.) Then, Nintendo poured gasoline on the fire by permitting Wal-Mart (and only Wal-Mart) to sell consoles at the new, lowered price a couple of days BEFORE the official date of the price drop, without losing their margin on the old stock. Amazon has (reportedly) not bought 3DS consoles direct from NOA since that day. (Though they've occasionally picked up some 3DSes from other wholesalers.)

Neither party cares to detail whether it is Amazon refusing to buy, or Nintendo refusing to sell. Rumor has it that it's Nintendo that put Amazon on the shit list, but I've heard at least one pretty well-informed Amazon employee that says that it's their buyer that's doing it. I tend to think it's Amazon.

 

[Yrael]

yea the moiré pattern makes direct comparisons hard since it looks like flaws that aren't really there. its dependent on camera focus. however its not the scanline issue.

the scanline thing is something the GBA and dslite could also suffered from but there was a way to fix it on those systems by adjusting the potentiometers(3ds lacks these). there was a youtube video apparently showing the effect but its gone down recently. its hard to explain unless you know exactly what youre looking for but it does look kinda like the flicker on the contra gif I posted. I went back and checked my dslite and I could see it slightly in very select spots when playing mario but its faint enough its a non issue. I suspect the same applies to most 3ds screens and its why people are confusing it with the pixel spacing. I did come across some people claiming they have the issue on their OG 3ds or touch screen so it seems like another random calibration problem. A handful of people seem to have gotten units where its clearly visible but so far it seems to be a much rarer issue than stuff like the poor color calibration.

I did try looking for the flickering scan pattern like the gif you posted, but I couldn't see it (except perhaps very faintly on the menu). Either I don't have very sensitive vision, or I was lucky with my screens.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

So IPS is still better? Jesus Christ I don't know anymore.

Because it doesn't matter much which display you have. The whole thread is out of control. Many people suddenly see some things on their screens and think it is because of a inferior or superior screen. The photographs are hilarious as if they could show or prove anything when they not shot with the exact same setting, light and angle. Mostly they prove how bad smartphone cameras are.

In all modern devices the screens vary a bit.

 

[Yrael]

Because it doesn't matter much which display you have. The whole thread is out of control. Many people suddenly see some things on their screens and think it is because of a inferior or superior screen.

Almost in all modern devices the screens vary a bit.

There really is a very distinct difference between the "Type A" and "Type B" screens being discussed here though. Trust me, it's obvious when you can see them side by side in person. To most people it won't matter very much, but it's still a topic worth discussing for those who would derive more enjoyment from having a visual display of a certain type.

 

[Me_Marcadet]

I think youre confusing the scanline effect with the actual pixel spacing on the 3ds. the scanline issue im not sure can be picked up in still pictures since its more of a flicker effect.

I realized my error afterward but didn't bother to edit, you're absolutely right.
The scanline effect on my IPS is really visible on flat textured surface and with minimal camera movement like in SMB3Dland or the airship in the starfox level from Smash. Maybe I could try to record it with the camera of the SGS4 but I don't think it would be conclusive.

Finally, I want to say that now that I played more with the IPS, I got used to the new look. I like it and can enjoy my games without scrutinizing the screen anymore. I'm noticing less and less the scanline effect and the banding doesn't hurt my eyes as much.

Still I'm adamant on the quality of both screens and the fact that if you are coming from and OG 3DS, both are a huge upgrade and in no way one display could be considered shitty. They have both their shortcomings and the gamma is really a shame on the TN, but trust me, the upgrade you will feel is on the same level with both screens.

 

[Reallink]

Am I understanding this right, you guys seem to be saying the presumed IPS screen has an obvious scan line effect, but more saturated colors and a higher gamma (less washed out)? I just side by sided 2 units with dramatically different screens and the one with the impossible to miss scan line effect also had significantly more muted colors. I couldn't pick out any notable difference in viewing angles just using the the white theme menu and icons. The OG XL in the line up was clearly inferior to both in viewing angles, but its color saturation was very similar to the "good" N3DS screen. The scan line effect (bottom right unit) actually shows up a little in the pictures if you click to full size.

 

[CrashPrime]

Has anyone found if the Majora's Mask LE panels vary?

 

[Ryoma-Echizen]

I took this capture as a reference point for crushed blacks. I can confirm that my TYPE B screen doesn't suffer from crushed blacks. I would even say that it's a little too bright and I can see too much details.
It would be cool if Type A owners could use this picture to see if all of TYPE A display suffer from crushed blacks.

Problem is people watching the "reference image" on a LCD tv/monitor/smartphone. Use it as a "reference" ONLY if you got a CRT/Plasma/OLED based display.

**Maybe a VA panel display.

 

[Yrael]

Has anyone found if the Majora's Mask LE panels vary?

Yep.

 

[big_z]

Am I understanding this right, you guys seem to be saying the presumed IPS screen has an obvious scan line effect, but more saturated colors and a higher gamma (less washed out)? I just side by sided 2 units with dramatically different screens and the one with the impossible to miss scan line effect also had significantly more muted colors. I couldn't pick out any notable difference in viewing angles just using the the white theme menu and icons. The OG XL in the line up was clearly inferior to both in viewing angles, but its color saturation was very similar to the "good" N3DS screen. The scan line effect (bottom right unit) actually shows up a little in the pictures if you click to full size.

that's not the scan line effect, its moire from camera focus. the scan line thing is noticeable in person but I don't think it can be captured in pictures as it seems to be the screen flickering in some fashion. its hard to explain but once you see its easy to point out.

in person if you have ips and move the screen around physically and track it with your eyes looking for something that looks almost like interlacing. it can be quite noticeable in games with solid colors or the default menu theme. I returned two ips n3dsxls and one had this problem very badly especially along the bottom of the screen. it also had it vertically along the left side. on the second 3ds it was barely there, very faint a non issue however it had 4 dead pixels.

Your OGxl looks like it has a pretty decent calibration while the ips are pushing green/red. My OG is similar and looked better in menu than the n3ds screens but In game, I found the ips does shine through. there is also noticeable motion blur on the tn. to test this I used music park in Mario kart 7. when you go around the sharp turns the thin space between keys look jaggy on the ips. on the tn they smear but if you pause and youll notice its just like the ips.