Your first two points are understandable. Your last point is foolish.
Play Elite Dangerous on a DK2 with a high-end PC with a HOTAS and tell me that's not revolutionary. Immersive doesn't even describe the experience.
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Oculus CEO: The headset and computer to run it will cost you ~$1,500
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Your first two points are understandable. Your last point is foolish.
Play Elite Dangerous on a DK2 with a high-end PC with a HOTAS and tell me that's not revolutionary. Immersive doesn't even describe the experience.
Which I'm sorry about, but did you expect the rift to change that?
Has this ever stopped the release of expensive video cards and high end gaming stuff? No, enthusiasts get it, price drops mass market comes later.
Exactly why you're not the target market of this first generation of Rift products, this is for enthusiasts now, mass market later.
Not unless they've implimented some kinda desktop mode. Trying to navigate non-vr enabled stuff through the Rift1 was horrible.
berval
Member
Yeah, this was my understanding as well. We have know for a while that in order to have a good experience with VR you need to have a high end pc. The games need to run at a high resolution and at a high frame rate. When Morpheus was announced people were very skeptical about the ps4 having enough power to do VR. I haven't been keeping up with Morpheus at all, but what kind of experience are people expecting out of it? Less than 720p + 30fps or games with much simpler visuals designed specifically for VR?
How do you figure? Plasma television debuted at almost $50,000 USD and was down to $10,000 within a few years and was down to $5,000 a little while after that. Did it not lead the flat panel charge? New technology always costs a lot. An iPhone is subsidized through carriers, otherwise that smartphone of yours retails for over $500. Is it really that outlandish to think a cutting edge virtual reality headset, paired with top of the line PC specs is over $1500? New and expensive technology always leads the charge, whether they stay leading is the issue. So you're wrong, Oculus is definitely leading the consumer and dev VR charge.
Probably medium settings on a game like Witcher 3 @ 90fps. Maybe less to hold 90 100% of the time with a GTX 970.
I don't think Oculus actually expect many people to go out an build a full rig capable of powering their device. Target market is the people who already own gaming PCs, at least initially.
And if you've already got a semi-decent PC that isn't quite up to snuff it's probably cheaper upgrading it than going out and buying both a PS4 and Morpheus.
And if you've already got a semi-decent PC that isn't quite up to snuff it's probably cheaper upgrading it than going out and buying both a PS4 and Morpheus.
1st generation of anything never really is mainstream.
I think only Apple really breaks that rule.
baphomet
Member
No? It has always been known that not only will you need a expensive Oculus, you'll also need a very powerful machine to push it
I'm not sure if Morpheus will at least match the low latency mode of the Oculus dk2, but this one makes a huuuge difference for me, and basically makes everything, and any graphics "there". But it's 75fps.
That said, again, talking about experience, you talk about those like if you compared two ports of a same game. Morpheus will have its own games, with its own control method. Who knows, right now, who will have a defining experience... People tend to underestimate the software side of this little war.
Definitely, Morpheus will have its place on the market, I can see it being the leader as well. (Look at the Wii)
But when people deny that it'll be inferior to the other 2 headsets because it'll have simpler graphics fail to see that it won't be because of that.
piratethingy
Self professed bad raider
"AT MOST" why is everyone ignoring this? Also, seeing as how he specifically mentions going out and "buying a pc" it's clear he's not taking about people buying parts off newegg and assembling piecemeal. Think about what you'll get at ibuypower.com or Best Buy or whatever for around $1200 and then think about what you'd expect to need to run this thing near maxed out on new games (remember, we're talking what you'd spend AT MOST). I think you'll find there might not be a huge gap.
Gray Matter
Member
Exactly, which is why i think it will take years for VR to go anywhere. Even then, when it hits the open market, I think people will be turned away due to the high price of entry.
>-Baron-Spamedi-<
Member
Lol. So with the usual steep mark up the UK has to pay for these sort of things that kind of kills PC VR having any hope of reaching the mass market here.
That's kind of what I expected though.
Hopefully Sony can bring a decent enough experience at a more mass market friendly price point to widen the appeal of VR generally.
That in turn can generate more interest and awareness in VR broadly speaking and leave Oculus and Valve to push the boundaries and technology.
Those of us who see potential in VR really need all these parties to do well if VR is to have a healthy future.
That's kind of what I expected though.
Hopefully Sony can bring a decent enough experience at a more mass market friendly price point to widen the appeal of VR generally.
That in turn can generate more interest and awareness in VR broadly speaking and leave Oculus and Valve to push the boundaries and technology.
Those of us who see potential in VR really need all these parties to do well if VR is to have a healthy future.
You do know Nvidia sells millions of GPUs, right?
Nothing miniscule about millions, right?
In particular, it is the most you would spend to get such an all in one solution; entire computer and headset - presumably prebuilt. It can definitely be done cheaper than that right now, although without knowing the headset price - I'm guessing it's around $299
Sectorseven
Member
These headets have enough of an uphill battle without PR blunders.
It will take years for it to reach mass market, not only because of the price but also because of the main reason, content. It's kind of similar to how HDTV and now 4K did and will respectively, take years for mass market appeal, they are playing the long game here. Eventually in price it will reach a tipping point where the mass market can afford it and you won't need a high end pc to run it, you may not even need a pc to run it at that point.
one 1080p screen
cheaper positional tracking(?)
can be sold with just the headset its self. (with many people already having the PlayStation Camera and Move controllers...or they can use their DS4 for certain games)
also Sony only making it compatible with its PS4, might afford them to take hit on the cost...initially.
baphomet
Member
How is a long known fact a PR blunder?
More than just games too, man. VR is gonna be great for all kinds of things.
porn!
Heist demo is only 60fps(reprojected to 120fps). It also looks much like a 360/PS3 game in terms of visuals. Which yea, is fine. Wasn't trying to say it couldn't do respectable enough visuals. Just that VR in general is indeed very demanding.
Indeed, at the end of the day, it's all about software.
And that's where I'm really curious as to how open Sony will be about letting software into their headset. Will they curate everything like they been doing or will they have a sort of "VR Marketplace" where they allow anyone to put something like in XBLIG.
Stuff like NES Legend of Zelda VR or Alien Isolation VR only works because of the open nature of the system.
NullPointer
Member
With all the varieties of gaming PCs out there you could still end up difficulties maintaining an absolutely solid framerate.
And if framerate is such an issue that fluctuations could make people disoriented or nauseous I'd think it'd be wise to bundle the Rift with specific hardware set for that purpose, with software guaranteed to run on that hardware without issues. Maybe a Steam box or something along those lines?
VR will be worth it alone if it manages to usher in an era of truly locked framerates.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Unsurprising. The real question is how long it will take for the price of entry to come down.
Sectorseven
Member
Look at the reaction here.
They won't let that happen, so it will be a vita situation (or not). We'll have huge experience defining games if they let some of their big first party work on games for it. but will they do that, or treat morpheus like some experiment that shouldn't use too much of their resources..
InaudibleWhispa
Member
What gave you that idea? High spec expensive VR was never intended to be mainstream in the short term. Mobile VR will be the first mainstream push for VR and the more advanced headsets will grown in popularity as requirements become affordable. It was always going to start as a niche for hardcore gamers and then gain momentum over years, not be an immediate global success story.
Yes definitely, but people really get way carried away with the 'mass market' stuff. Not everything needs to be mass market immediately. 4k TV's were thousands of dollars a few years ago and now you can get one for $500. Soon enough they'll be commonplace in people's homes. VR doesn't have to come out of the gates and be an instant worldwide explosion. It very likely wont be, but that doesn't mean that adoption wont have a healthy, steady increase over time, particularly as the technology becomes more affordable(if you don't need the latest and greatest).
NullPointer
Member
Facebook.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
I expected to pay a lot to build a rig to run this but only one thing is rubbing me the wrong way here. I don't really care for this estimate that does nothing but intimidate people who are on the fence. I already know I want a VR device and I know I will pay a lot to upgrade my aging setup. What I don't know is how much is the device itself? This guesstimate seems like a poor way of trying to convey a price. Just give us the figure and let us move on with pricing up the rig ourselves. if you can't give us the price then why even open you're mouth with a $1500 figure in the first place?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
If you own a PC that can run modern games well, this can't possibly be a surprise.
That being said, I really doubt Sony's option, hardware and camera and Move included, comes in at over $900. The lower device specs and framerate targets will be reflected at the high end, but it will be a great introduction for the console crowd.
That being said, I really doubt Sony's option, hardware and camera and Move included, comes in at over $900. The lower device specs and framerate targets will be reflected at the high end, but it will be a great introduction for the console crowd.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Millions?
CarbonFire
Member
When has Apple released anything first? They just swoop in when the technology is ripe to make it consumer friendly, and work their magic. About the closest thing would be the Apple II, and even then they weren't the first. But that was a very different Apple than the mass market consumer focused Apple of today. Smartphones, Tablets, MP3 players, Smart Watches, Apple was late to the game with all of those. But because they do what they do so well, they changed the game with almost all of those products (smart watches tbd).
In iPhone terms, we're still in the 80s car phone stage of VR. YEARS away from some magical, plug-and-play device that doesn't require a significant amount of investment in order for it to work. We'll get there faster than smartphones did, but there's no magic shortcut with this stuff.
adamantypants
Member
What if my rig already cost me $2000+ to build lol
This is what I was expecting. I also hope to run everything at ultra settings so I'll be bleeding money anyway.
This is what I was expecting. I also hope to run everything at ultra settings so I'll be bleeding money anyway.
baphomet
Member
I see a bunch of people who apparently though this thing was going to be free, and everyone else who has known this for years now.
Yes, of course millions.
Which doesn't particularly matter right now since it is an enthusiast market. The Rift and Vive are what they consider the bare minimum to achieve the kind of consistent presence they are after. Within 2 years, everything will likely be in a different state. It very much mirrors what happened with PCs back in the 90s and the introduction of 3d cards. This is pretty much the way to get the ball rolling on PCs
Thing is, VR companies chose display resolutions and frame rate based on what keeps you immersed, so is there much leeway there? If Morpheous runs 1080p or higher, that would mean a fair loss in eye candy to get the frame rate acceptable for VR. Casuals may not think the novelty if VR is a benefit of overall picture looks and feels worse.
It's going to be niche for now on pc and console for similar reasons, horsepower.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
In terms of raw demand in rendering, I suppose I agree then, but getting rid of stuff like motion blur, depth of field, lense flare and stuff of that nature helps reduce the footprint somewhat I'd imagine. But yeah, more demanding frame by frame in comparison to regular games, absolutely.
I just get the feeling that people assume PS4 hardware = Shit, therefor PS4 VR = Shit, and I think it's a false leap. They need to curve their expectations and go off that.
I'm thinking less Witcher 3 and Uncharted 4 in VR, and more Shadow of the Colossus and No Mans Sky in terms of expectations. Yes the complexity of the games will need to go down (in terms of A.I., volume of explosions ect ect), but it shouldn't be assumed that it's automatically a bad thing.
A game like COD where you have to manually aim down sights would be a nightmare in VR in it's current form. Way too much going on.
I meant to put in the previous post as well that I knew the Heist was running at 60, I just phrased it wrong lol and omitted the 60 :/.
Mango Positive
Member
I'm not too versed on the required PC specs, but I'm assuming I should be good for early adoption with a GTX 980? Or should I wait for the 980TI for prices to come down and get a second 980?
InaudibleWhispa
Member
A 980 is great, the 970 was their recommended card.
Lady Siara
Member
I imagine there will be many VR experiences that aren't gaming related, so the required hardware won't be as demanding for those. You're not going to need a $1000+ computer to watch a movie filmed for viewing in VR. You can already do these sorts of things with a Note 4 and Gear VR.
You can get rid of effects like that, but then you ideally want to use MSAA for VR, bringing performance back down again. Aliasing in VR is a different beast. You need it and MSAA is the only effective solution short of downsampling. Oculus and Valve both recommend at least MSAAx4 for VR experiences.
I definitely agree with all that. PS4 will do VR just fine.
There's just a titanic load of ignorance in this thread in general.