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[FlyinJ]

I'm disgusted with Palmer being an alt-right racist.

Worse, I hate the fact that GamerGate and it's even more reprehensible ally the alt-right have infested their racist and misogyinistic cancer beyond gaming and into the much broader field of VR through Palmer Luckey.

However, the most incomprehensible aspect of this entire dumpster fire is that Facebook and Oculus would allow this racist bigot to still have a senior position at their company that employs minorities, women and LGBT.

What in the hell are they thinking? Even if they agree with his disgusting politics, they are facing potentially massive lawsuits from their employees.

The example has been brought up before in this thread, but let's play it out again-

An African-American woman who has had exemplary reviews for 2 years doesn't get promoted, but a white man with 6 months experience gets the position she was hoping for.

Maybe the white guy showed more potential, worked harder, whatever. Maybe it was a totally valid call.

However, they have a proud racist in charge of the company.

How do they think this or any other similar situation is going to play out from now on?

 

[Snowybreak]

I'm disgusted with Palmer being an alt-right racist.

Worse, I hate the fact that GamerGate and it's even more reprehensible ally the alt-right have infested their racist and misogyinistic cancer beyond gaming and into the much broader field of VR through Palmer Luckey.

However, the most incomprehensible aspect of this entire dumpster fire is that Facebook and Oculus would allow this racist bigot to still have a senior position at their company that employs minorities, women and LGBT.

What in the hell are they thinking? Even if they agree with his disgusting politics, they are facing potentially massive lawsuits from their employees.

The example has been brought up before in this thread, but let's play it out again-

An African-American woman who has had exemplary reviews for 2 years doesn't get promoted, but a white man with 6 months experience gets the position she was hoping for.

Maybe the white guy showed more potential, worked harder, whatever. Maybe it was a totally valid call.

However, they have a proud racist in charge of the company.

How do they think this or any other similar situation is going to play out from now on?

I hate to be a cynic, but it'll probably be pushed deep down.

When things like this happen at any company, even one with a moderate to good track record on civil rights, shit will go south among the employees, there will be disputes, probably a few firings as a warning and then... silence.

Nothing will happen to Luckey. He's a lead founder, for fuck's sake he's the face of that company!

It'll boil up for a bit and then disappear just as quickly. Of course we here on this forum will remember what he said, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter to the consumers.

 

[FlyinJ]

I hate to be a cynic, but it'll probably be pushed deep down.

When things like this happen at any company, even one with a moderate to good track record on civil rights, shit will go south among the employees, there will be disputes, probably a few firings as a warning and then... silence.

Nothing will happen to Luckey. He's a lead founder, for fuck's sake he's the face of that company!

It'll boil up for a bit and then disappear just as quickly. Of course we here on this forum will remember what he said, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter to the consumers.

I'm pretty sure that they will be liable for lawsuits from employees that believe they were passed up for promotion because the culture of the company is inherently racist.

If an employee sued, they have both Palmer Luckey, the founder of the company, proudly admitting to funding an alt-right racist organization- and Jason Rubin, head of content for the company backing up Palmer's racist endeavors as evidence.

And this veneer of "oh he's just supporting Trump" is so easily disproven by random people on an internet forum by providing links to evidence, it would be even easier for a lawyer representing the employee to present the evidence in court.

 

[Neuromancer]

Don't forget the CEO got in on it too. "I want to respond to the recent press stories involving Palmer. I know that Palmer is deeply sorry for the impact this situation is having on the company, our partners and the industry.

Everyone at Oculus is free to support the issues or causes that matter to them, whether or not we agree with those views. It is important to remember that Palmer acted independently in a personal capacity, and was in no way representing the company."

 

[FlyinJ]

Business Insider does some good journalism, cutting through the "he's just a Trump supporter" narrative that they are trying to smoke screen this thing with, and explaining exactly what the racist hate group is that Palmer Luckey is funding:

http://www.businessinsider.com/palmer-luckey-jeopardizing-facebook-oculus-rift-2016-9

 

[FlyinJ]

Yeah, this is basically my take too. Kramer's message was intended to comfort Oculus employees who may suddenly find their principles and their practical needs in conflict for no reason besides their boss revealing themselves to be a giant shitlord. It's another way of saying that Oculus employees are also victims of Luckey's shitposting campaign, not just because of the business impact from developers and users pulling support but also because of this internal conflict.

Ah yeah, that aspect was lost on me. Good point.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Business Insider does some good journalism, cutting through the "he's just a Trump supporter" narrative that they are trying to smoke screen this thing with, and explaining exactly what the racist hate group is that Palmer Luckey is funding:

http://www.businessinsider.com/palmer-luckey-jeopardizing-facebook-oculus-rift-2016-9

Great summation. Really glad they pointed out why it's a problem and how it could impact Facebook.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Agreed. Well researched and written, very even-handed, and honest about the fact that what happens from here isn't entirely clear.

 

[Neuromancer]

I noticed that every thread in the Oculus forums off topic area on the subject was shut down.

https://forums.oculus.com/community/categories/off-topic

 

[FlyinJ]

I noticed that every thread in the Oculus forums off topic area on the subject was shut down.

https://forums.oculus.com/community/categories/off-topic

Yeah, they've been shutting down any topic on the subject immediately after the story broke.

 

[Dante]

I noticed that every thread in the Oculus forums off topic area on the subject was shut down.

https://forums.oculus.com/community/categories/off-topic

I would expect nothing less from them. Wasn't Facebook also filtering out trending news stories as well at some point?

 

[Kaako]

I noticed that every thread in the Oculus forums off topic area on the subject was shut down.

https://forums.oculus.com/community/categories/off-topic

Well of course they are. Smfh...I truly hope they catch some major flak at their Oculus meeting/event coming up. Already decided to vote with wallet and not buy anything Oculus related but we need more media coverage as well.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

I noticed that every thread in the Oculus forums off topic area on the subject was shut down.

https://forums.oculus.com/community/categories/off-topic

Closes all those threads. Leaves the one complaining about SJW's political correctness with article from Breibart.

Yup. yep.

Expect to see more of that. Doesn't represent our company or culture argument wears thinner by the day.

 

[FlyinJ]

Closes all those threads. Leaves the one complaining about SJW's political correctness with article from Breibart.

Yup. yep.

Expect to see more of that. Doesn't represent our company or culture argument wears thinner by the day.

Seriously? WTF... maybe everyone in charge over there is actually alt-right/GamerGate.

Scary prospect.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I noticed that every thread in the Oculus forums off topic area on the subject was shut down.

https://forums.oculus.com/community/categories/off-topic

This is fucked

 

[Makai]

Looks like they're just carrying-on

 

[AzaK]

Good, keep the pressure on and don't let them forget it.

Yup. There should be more shit hitting the fan over this.

 

[- J - D -]

I noticed that every thread in the Oculus forums off topic area on the subject was shut down.

https://forums.oculus.com/community/categories/off-topic

Looks like they're just carrying-on

Those cowards.

If they are doing their damnedest to wipe this from public memory, then it's the onus of the games/tech press and us to never let it go.

 

[AzaK]

Looks like they're just carrying-on

I wondered what Carmack would think of all this? Guess it's "not much"

 

[karasu]

I wish I could say I was surprised that hes facing zero repercussions over this. Gaming devs/press/etc seems to be so overwhelmingly white that shit like this is easy for the higher-ups to ignore.

 

[Makai]

I wondered what Carmack would think of all this? Guess it's "not much"

Yeah, I assumed Carmack had no opinion at best, which is fine with me.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

Really sucks this is just being swept under the rug. Really makes me question the management and core staff. "Ah, it's okay, he was just joking around. Plus, we're white, so who cares?"

 

[Mahonay]

Really sucks this is just being swept under the rug. Really makes me question the management and core staff. "Ah, it's okay, he was just joking around. Plus, we're white, so who cares?"

Yep. It's really hard for me to ever look at someone like Jason Rubin the same again after this.

 

[120v]

i think it's a matter of setting precedent. you oust luckey fine but what do you do when X employee is involved with a left leaning group with dodgy connections

if the company's policy is "what you do on your own time..." they have to stick with it no exceptions

 

[Mahonay]

i think it's a matter of setting precedent. you oust luckey fine but what do you do when X employee is involved with a left leaning group with dodgy connections

if the company's policy is "what you do on your own time..." they have to stick with it no exceptions

Except a left leaning group would not involve spreading racist/sexist/xenophobic hate speech. That's a false equivalency.

 

[Koren]

He has a long history of donating to Democrats.

Well, Trump was a democrat. Hasn't he funded Hilary's campaing in 2008? ^_^

 

[FlyinJ]

i think it's a matter of setting precedent. you oust luckey fine but what do you do when X employee is involved with a left leaning group with dodgy connections

if the company's policy is "what you do on your own time..." they have to stick with it no exceptions

Minorities and women work for Palmer Luckey at Oculus. Palmer Luckey takes the profits of their work and spends it funding an organization whose purpose is to spread hate speech about minorities and women.

Do you see the problem yet?

 

[Neuromancer]

i think it's a matter of setting precedent. you oust luckey fine but what do you do when X employee is involved with a left leaning group with dodgy connections

if the company's policy is "what you do on your own time..." they have to stick with it no exceptions

He's their front man and people pay attention to what he says and does more than the average employee. In fact he visibly represents the whole company. Or at least he did until now. Maybe they'll stick him in a supply closet for the rest of his career after all this.

 

[FlyinJ]

What would this hypothetical left leaning organization with dodgy ties be, anyways? A union?

 

[Par Score]

Business Insider does some good journalism, cutting through the "he's just a Trump supporter" narrative that they are trying to smoke screen this thing with, and explaining exactly what the racist hate group is that Palmer Luckey is funding:

http://www.businessinsider.com/palmer-luckey-jeopardizing-facebook-oculus-rift-2016-9

A good article.

Closes all those threads. Leaves the one complaining about SJW's political correctness with article from Breibart.

Yup. yep.

Expect to see more of that. Doesn't represent our company or culture argument wears thinner by the day.

JFC. I had assumed this was exaggeration so I went and checked and it is the literal truth.

I guess Oculus was Palmer's baby, so why should we assume there's only one bad apple here? It's looking more and more like the whole barrel is rotten.

 

[elohel]

WHOA Jason Rubin spoke about all this?! wow

 

[Oersted]

i think it's a matter of setting precedent. you oust luckey fine but what do you do when X employee is involved with a left leaning group with dodgy connections

if the company's policy is "what you do on your own time..." they have to stick with it no exceptions

And if Nimble America would be a humanist organization we wouldn't have this discussion.

If.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Yeah I have no faith in Oculus management. They've communicated that it's ok to support and fund xenophobic hate, so it wouldn't surprise me if they do.

 

[fester]

I noticed that every thread in the Oculus forums off topic area on the subject was shut down.

https://forums.oculus.com/community/categories/off-topic

This company is pure shit. So glad I never gave them a penny - and will continue to avoid anything they are involved with. Fuck them.

 

[S2G_Chris]

Closes all those threads. Leaves the one complaining about SJW's political correctness with article from Breibart.

Yup. yep.

Expect to see more of that. Doesn't represent our company or culture argument wears thinner by the day.

To be fair, there are plenty of places on the web that censor just as much on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Im torn on this, i dont really agree with Palmer doing this (coming from someone who's fairly conservative) but i also think its his choice to do it. However i ALSO think hes smart enough to know him doing this was going to put a huge target on his head, so i dont really feel bad for him or anything.

Im not interested in any VR set, if i was id probably get PSVR, so im not going to buy an occulus anyway. But this probably wouldnt effect my decision one way or another if i was in the market for one.

Also for the record i look at Breitbart as the political right version of Buzzfeed (Aka totally makes me want to puke, but actually pretty effective at pushing an agenda) But i dont find all of their stuff super offensive, some of it is actually kind of thought provoking sometimes.

Also Milo shouldnt have been banned of twitter

But yeah that neither here nor there. If these are Palmers political views he at least needs to stand up and take the heat for it.

 

[FlyinJ]

To be fair, there are plenty of places on the web that censor just as much on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Im torn on this, i dont really agree with Palmer doing this (coming from someone who's fairly conservative) but i also think its his choice to do it. However i ALSO think hes smart enough to know him doing this was going to put a huge target on his head, so i dont really feel bad for him or anything.

Im not interested in any VR set, if i was id probably get PSVR, so im not going to buy an occulus anyway. But this probably wouldnt effect my decision one way or another if i was in the market for one.

Also for the record i look at Breitbart as the political right version of Buzzfeed (Aka totally makes me want to puke, but actually pretty effective at pushing an agenda) But i dont find all of their stuff super offensive, some of it is actually kind of thought provoking sometimes.

Also Milo shouldnt have been banned of twitter

But yeah that neither here nor there. If these are Palmers political views he at least needs to stand up and take the heat for it.

Good to hear you're just barely not as conservative as to support someone funding an organization founded to spread racist hate speech

 

[Alienfan]

Hopefully the issue resurfaces at the next Oculus panel or something

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Also Milo shouldnt have been banned of twitter

Why do you think he should not have been banned from Twitter?

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Why do you think he should not have been banned from Twitter?

I'll take a guess.

Freedom of speech is the most important thing, no exceptions. Even if freedom of speech has nothing to do with Twitter, since they are not a government organization, but whatever, details.

Removing someone's platform to speak is worse than anything they can possibly say. If you don't like what they are saying that is your problem. You should fight it with your own speech.

I'll ignore all the concessions and compromises we all make as an agreement that a public and society that is considerate of each other is way better than some bullshit attempt to apply free market economics to human communication. Calling someone out as an asshole and removing their ability to harass others under the weak shield of freedom of speech is the actual most offensive thing currently facing mankind. Oh, gosh, sorry.. Womenkind. Would hate to offend you.

 

[Quote]

To be fair, there are plenty of places on the web that censor just as much on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Im torn on this, i dont really agree with Palmer doing this (coming from someone who's fairly conservative) but i also think its his choice to do it. However i ALSO think hes smart enough to know him doing this was going to put a huge target on his head, so i dont really feel bad for him or anything.

Im not interested in any VR set, if i was id probably get PSVR, so im not going to buy an occulus anyway. But this probably wouldnt effect my decision one way or another if i was in the market for one.

Also for the record i look at Breitbart as the political right version of Buzzfeed (Aka totally makes me want to puke, but actually pretty effective at pushing an agenda) But i dont find all of their stuff super offensive, some of it is actually kind of thought provoking sometimes.

Also Milo shouldnt have been banned of twitter

But yeah that neither here nor there. If these are Palmers political views he at least needs to stand up and take the heat for it.

I'd love to hear more about these opinions.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

He's obviously trying to subtly derail this thread from its actual discussion to get it locked, as is usually the case in many gamergate related discussions on gaf. Please let's not do him that favor and discuss the thread's topic, not him :/

 

[pronk420]

This article started off sounding like it is about VR at TGS but they lay into Luckey pretty heavily:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/02/oculus-rift-palmer-luckey-virtual-reality-donald-trump

 

[Neuromancer]

To be fair, there are plenty of places on the web that censor just as much on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Im torn on this, i dont really agree with Palmer doing this (coming from someone who's fairly conservative) but i also think its his choice to do it. However i ALSO think hes smart enough to know him doing this was going to put a huge target on his head, so i dont really feel bad for him or anything.

Im not interested in any VR set, if i was id probably get PSVR, so im not going to buy an occulus anyway. But this probably wouldnt effect my decision one way or another if i was in the market for one.

Also for the record i look at Breitbart as the political right version of Buzzfeed (Aka totally makes me want to puke, but actually pretty effective at pushing an agenda) But i dont find all of their stuff super offensive, some of it is actually kind of thought provoking sometimes.

Also Milo shouldnt have been banned of twitter

But yeah that neither here nor there. If these are Palmers political views he at least needs to stand up and take the heat for it.

So what are the Buzzfeed equivalents of the following Breitbart articles? I'm legitimately curious.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

I am part of a minority. I have rather people tell me how they really feel about me in my face. If they are not allowed to express themselves I can't combat them with reason. Political correctness does not change the way people think, it just shuts them up.

Thank you. I needed a big laugh this morning. Reason and facts will only make them dig in their heels. Don't get too tired out there fighting.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Thank you. I needed a big laugh this morning. Reason and facts will only make them dig in their heels. Don't get too tired out there fighting.

We don't have to change the hearts and minds of the hardened bigots. It is, however, much easier to shift public opinion against them if they're visible in the first place. When discrimination is subtle it's much harder to convince people that it's real and needs to be fought against.

 

[Palette Swap]

To be fair, there are plenty of places on the web that censor just as much on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Im torn on this, i dont really agree with Palmer doing this (coming from someone who's fairly conservative) but i also think its his choice to do it. However i ALSO think hes smart enough to know him doing this was going to put a huge target on his head, so i dont really feel bad for him or anything.

Im not interested in any VR set, if i was id probably get PSVR, so im not going to buy an occulus anyway. But this probably wouldnt effect my decision one way or another if i was in the market for one.

Also for the record i look at Breitbart as the political right version of Buzzfeed (Aka totally makes me want to puke, but actually pretty effective at pushing an agenda) But i dont find all of their stuff super offensive, some of it is actually kind of thought provoking sometimes.

Also Milo shouldnt have been banned of twitter

But yeah that neither here nor there. If these are Palmers political views he at least needs to stand up and take the heat for it.

Aside from using the usual "both sides" bullshit deflection, you're completely missing the central point here: this is the official oculus forums we're talking about, not some random place, which corroborates the picture we're getting and makes your argument even more useless than it was in the first place.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

We don't have to change the hearts and minds of the hardened bigots. It is, however, much easier to shift public opinion against them if they're visible in the first place. When discrimination is subtle it's much harder to convince people that it's real and needs to be fought against.

If you can't believe the people who tell you about their experience of racism or the numerous statistics proving I'm not sure I personally care enough to even try to convince. You have the empathy and understanding or you don't.

I am not down with this it needs to be loud and brash to identify it for dummies line of thought. That's absurd. Its just agreeing to a shittier environment for myself.

 

[bishoptl]

To be fair

And nothing of consequence was lost.

 

[DedValve]

Also for the record i look at Breitbart as the political right version of Buzzfeed (Aka totally makes me want to puke, but actually pretty effective at pushing an agenda) But i dont find all of their stuff super offensive, some of it is actually kind of thought provoking sometimes.
.

Your already banned but I thought about asking you to link to some of these articles then realize that breitbart is literally just an online dumpster fire that serves as nothing more than to fuel hatred while cry about the SJW left wing media controlled articles of how to be a decent human being.

 

[Lady Gaia]

If you can't believe the people who tell you about their experience of racism or the numerous statistics proving I'm not sure I personally care enough to even try to convince. You have the empathy and understanding or you don't.

The striggle against bigotry isn't that easy. As someone very personally impacted by the anti-gay sentiment in this country I credit much of the progress in recent years to being able to point to outspoken hostility to make a case in Federal court and the court of public opinion. Some day my wife and I will feel comfortable walking down the street in a random American city holding hands because many people will have built up empathy and understanding while watching that struggle.