runningjoke
Member
Sounds like German to me
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OT | Dutch General Election 2017 | Exit Poll: Major underperformance for Wilders
- Thread starter CrunchyB
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Sounds like German to me
Frankfurter
Member
Sounds like you guys did pretty well overall. Good to see that Wilders got less support than though. Good job Netherlands!
Yep me too. Just knowing the kind of terrible scum Baudet is, you don't want that as somebody govern you. Thank god he still has to prove himself know and probably miserably fail.
What other options are there?
Both Baudet and Kuzu creep me out, much more than Wilders ever did. At least Geert is a dependable asshole, I don't know what to make of those other clowns.
Man, the SP really did horrible if you think about it. They were the second biggest party on the left, the biggest party goes into government and becomes extremely impopulair because of that, and the SP manages to......lose 1 seat. How do you not profit from that situation? They let GL eat their complete lunch and then some.
I skipped them this time around because I wanted a younger person with fresh ideas leading the party. Perhaps they should elect a woman as party leader. That would be a great start.
I thought that PvdA was feeding GL their lunch and a few SP-voters took that as an invitation
ClosingADoor
Member
SP has no message. Everything is bad for them. Healthcare is bad, EU is bad, current jobs are bad, etc, etc. They are a negative platform. GroenLinks ran on a positive platform. Big difference.
They need to get rid of Roemer and put someone there who can get some enthusiasm in the party and present a clear, positive message for the future, instead of complaining from the sidelines all the time.
Emile Roemer needs to go. He seems like a really friendly dude, but he just can't get people excited about the SP. I think their definite statements of not wanting to form a coalition with the VVD before the election hurt them.
TatteredHat
Member
I know I said I'm happy that people found their voice in DENK before, but this is fucked up.
Context: Interviewer of a provocative news outlet brings up the statements made by Erdogan regarding both the Dutch causing the Bosnian genocide and the Dutch being Nazis and fascists he goes into into defense mode, refusing multiple times to disavow the statements made by Erdogan and calling off the interview.
Regginator
Member
You've probably quoted the wrong guy, because if you really find those Marcouch memes """offensive""", then I have no words left... fucking lol
As for not believing my perfectly normal statement about Marcouch (more wonderful memes in the cultural diverse Multiculturele bijeenkomst group with almost 100,000 people with a broad spectrum of political preferences), or in a general sense the increased dislike for PvdA, you really need to get your head out of your ass. Why did they lose 29 seats according to you? Magic? Teach me, because next election I'd like to rub that magic on VVD and PVV.
Uhm, read our program? We have no message? What?
Nah we most likely just need a new frontman because people grew old of Roemer
ClosingADoor
Member
Amazing. The guy can't even say a simple "No, I don't agree with Erdogan that the Dutch are nazi's." Well, not surprising considering this is also the party that threw out RTL at election night, refused newspapers like the NRC to attend and says Dutch doctors are quicker to let patients with an immigrant background die. What a clown. It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
Why is Marcouch a hypocrite in your opinion? Because I have always heard pretty positive things about him.
Yes, they lack a clear message, or at least a way to communicate that with the voters and Roemer is indeed not the man for that like I also said in that post. The only thing you hear from him is how everything is bad and that doesn't get his voters excited. That is a thing for Wilders and parties like that, not for the SP.
Of course everyone has a program (well, except for one party), but that doesn't mean it is clear for people what they actually stand for if they can't communicate it in the right way.
Paasei
Member
D66 is horrible enough. Would rather see CDA and PVV in it. Anything but GL and D66 is fine by me. VVD is also not something I am happy about.
Doesn't leave many actual proper alternatives, hence is why I am worried.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODFquHn1wKE
Watch at 2:04 for the follow up by the same newsoutlet. For those who think they will step up after they got the votes.
Yeah, screw this guy, seriously. I want a real party to step up for our minorities, not these spineless people supporting fake news and Erdogan.
It is a sad moment when powned reporters seem nice/reasonable compared to the person they are interviewing.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Need your DENK Erdogan lapdogs to get more votes?
Always-honest
Banned
What's wrong with them? Aside from disliking individuals i mean.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
A for effort.
At least I could kind of understand the woman
I can understand both just fine when taking into account what they are reading versus what they're saying.
I only started looking into how Danish even sounds when it was bothering me that not one but two actresses (one in GoT's Hardhome episode, the other in Westworld) sounded like they have a Dutch accent in English. Yet the language itself isn't that close to Dutch. Written out however, it does have similar words in places. It just sounds like someone speaking words backwards. And somehow that becomes a Dutch accent when speaking English.
Good try though. "Rutte neemt afscheld".
He voted for Thierry Baudet, don't expect any kind of reasonable answer
Please try to refrain from personal attacks like this, even when said somewhat jokingly. They can really sour discussion and make people who are in the political minority on GAF feel extremely unwelcome. Not conducive to productive discussion, as should be evident from any US political thread.
Daria Morgendorffer
Member
Really dissapointed about PVV getting 20 and FvD 2. PVV is still way too high for my liking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Freedom#Election_results
In 2010 they had more seats (24 seats).
The solace I take in all of this is that Wilders had it handed to him on a plate, but he still didn't do as well as he did a few years ago.
Also, Paul Krugman makes an interesting point:
Perhaps a crucial ingredient is to have a measured media.
Y-Z
Member
He voted for Thierry Baudet, don't expect any kind of reasonable answer
Could you please explain what's so bad about Baudet? I mean, he is kind of an arrogant person but he seems intelligent and reasonable to me.
Euron in Game of Thrones is also Danish by the way, he played in the same show (Borgen) as that Danish actress.
And it sounds quite weird, but apparently it's supposed to be quite easy to learn Danish as a Dutchman and vice versa, since our languages have a lot in common in origin and grammar. At least, that's what I heard, I can't speak a word in Danish.
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2016/09/28/de-vele-ideeen-en-vrienden-van-baudet-4508787-a1523858
tl;dr: Baudet is Dutch alt-right.
ClosingADoor
Member
Yeah trump got lucky.Trump winning doesn't mean that it's guaranteed that those far right parties in Europe will win their respective elections this year.
Y-Z
Member
Interesting stuff, shame he is that extreme. I liked him in recent interviews but did not vote for his party.
Sure, my apologies.
It's just that I'm familiar with the rhetoric of the FvD and its voters, or as somebody else pointed out, a (in my opinion) very toxic branch of the alt-right. I will, however, try to keep an open mind in the future.
ClosingADoor
Member
Waldo Lydecker
Member
He likes to hunt because one the best things he ever felt was life slowly dissapearing from a rabbit he shot and held in his hands... He also said that woman like to be raped...
EDIT: he hates Europe and asylum seekers and wants back to a 100% white Netherlands behind closed borders
Boozeroony
Member
He has a certain charisma, like a disney villain.
Paasei
Member
I don't like D66 being too pro EU, as in wanting to form one giant European state/country.
Both parties were supporters of the so called "leenstelsel" for students here (study loan, instead of it being a gift up until that came along).
I am not a supporter of the EU to begin with. I wouldn't mind leaving, but a structual re-order would be a very good start. EU should only be there for trading and safety, nothing more (in my opinion that is).
GrounLinks wants to introduce some odd taxes I really don't like with the hope it actually helps the environment, such as tax per km you drive on top of road tax. A tax for people who drive during rush hour, to name 2 examples.
And to add another thing on the whole traffic part; they also said they would like the speedlimit to be 80km/h on the highway.
ClosingADoor
Member
The problem with an EU for just safety and trade is that it would automatically mean you need to a lot more and would evolve into something like we have now again. Let's just take a few examples with trade:
- Imports need to be the same. This means that all laws regarding the products imported into the EU would need to be the same. Goods from China can not come into Bulgaria cheaper then into the UK. So you need to give up some taxation rights.
- Regulation needs to be the same. You can't have Germany make cars that fit one regulation and Holland another, because they need to be able to sell them everywhere. This goes for a ton of regulations and is one of the major things the EU does: streamlining this process.
- Finances will need to cross borders without problems. So you need the same banking regulations.
- You need workplace regulations and laws, because otherwise you get Bulgarian workers doing the same job in a more dangerous environment having companies cut costs not possible in France.
- Environmental regulations. Same issue, you need to make sure the products made and sold in Spain can not be made with toxic stuff prohibited in Norway.
For safety we also need a ton of stuff:
- Police forces on the same systems, so that they can work together more easily, since crime doesn't stop at the border and never will.
- Anti-terrorism goes across borders in the same way.
- Safety also has to do with foreign policy (Russia, Turkey, North Africa, etc) so you need a united voice there.
- You might even start thinking about joining certain aspects of armies, or make them work with the same equipment for better effectiveness and lower costs.
You say it should be there for trade and safety, but that stuff is related to almost all aspects of a society. I'm actually hard pressed thinking about many issues the EU does now that isn't related to those things.
I do agree GroenLinks has some unworkable ideas for cars. We need to be better for the environment, but their car and road taxes will not work for that and hurt people a lot.
Always-honest
Banned
Okay thanx for answering. I can't say i like everything they say either but i'd like them to play a bigger part than the opposition this time (for other subjects though).
Putting aside the fact that the only realistic economic alternative for the Netherlands to being part of the EU and its common market and having a currency that is either the same or linked to Germany's (which we have had for many decades) is literally joining Germany as a Bundesland. The overwhelming majority of EU legislation right now concerns the common market. The EU isn't all that much more than what you describe, and actually, in many ways, a whole lot less, given the limited abilities to provide safety.
TatteredHat
Member
We have so much euro-scepticism because the EU both is and isn't more than basically just a free market agreement. :/
It's also very hard to judge what it does and doesn't do for the average person as well as how well it functions. There's:
A. Bullshit media stories about insane regulations that either don't exist at all, are twisted by the media outlet to be something they're not or have no chance of being approved
B. Very little direct interaction with the EU. It doesn't tax you directly (so you can't easily see how little it costs proportional to your national government), when you vote you don't vote for European parties but for national ones and all the decisions are made by the national governments anyway, it doesn't have a visible presence in your daily life, no EU office you walk into for any business.
C. National politicians love to claim EU regulations and measures they like as national victories and blame the EU for things they don't like even though the EU isn't some external organisation forcing anything upon you, since the European Council decides what does and doesn't happen. People are however led to believe by national politicians that the EU has this grand decision making power it wields over the poor defenceless member states.
And so on and so forth.
MisterFalcon
Member
Many of these things that are supposed to be implemented throughout the EU are not even properly working in any of the member nations. If all the systems of the police forces in a single country are not linked despite many costly attempts to do so how can you expect to make it work across nations ? This is my main problem with plans coming from Groen Links and other ambitious parties, they assume that by making a law or policy decision to do X it will automagically become so despite all the evidence of this not working.
Take the Dutch police whose ICT systems are a huge mess. In the early 2000s a new system was supposed to make all departments work with the same system but of course no one wanted to actually stop the system they were used to. So you got BHV, a Frankenstein monster of interfaces to talk to all different systems using different technologies which ended with the whole police IT department being disbanded around 2010.
And somehow this will work across borders and languages.
Perhaps but if the new government doesn't become a party for all, yes I mean all, someone else is going to take over from Wilders and the outcome in the long run won't be pretty.
If anything this election showed us that people were energized to vote and get the party out there whos views aligned with theirs.
The angry 3rd and 4th generation kids of immigrants, the angry white person, the angry old person who feels his pension has been reduced, I can go on and on but all these people came out and voted to get their people in Parliament.
Try not to dismiss them, we need to all work hard to include everyone, yes even the assholes who listens to Erdogan.
I am very proud of this country and proud of everyone who came out to vote regardless of party, it's a win for democracy, it's a huge win for our country. I have never been so proud.
Apparently there were more irregularities in voting locations in mosques in Amsterdam? People being directed to vote a certain party... Anyway, an investigation is ongoing.
Also, just read that DENK is boycotting WNL for 6 months because they hosted Afshin Ellian who said that DENK was the achterlijke Midden Oosten-partij.
Also, just read that DENK is boycotting WNL for 6 months because they hosted Afshin Ellian who said that DENK was the achterlijke Midden Oosten-partij.
DENK has weird authoritarian tendencies.
Fallout-NL
Member
I'm not all that optimistic to be honest. Especially when you consider that the VVD managed to win all those vote with their nearly as awful populist-lite program. His 'pleur op' and 'doe normaal of ga weg' remarks aren't that much less heinous than Wilder's crap.
Still, GL quadrupling is something, I guess. I'm just afraid it's not enough.
Bullshit. FvD has issues with economic migrants, not asylum seekers. They are very clear and aware about the distinction, but hey, you probably heard other people calling them racists so it must be true, right?
To be honest, I can understand his frustration when he said that and I'm not a VVD voter, but if anything his party has been pretty good to Turkish people who own their own businesses. I read 34% of the people voted for the VVD in the last minute because of the flag waving the other day. That sentiment was also pretty much visible on this forum. The whole incident with Erdogan changed the dynamic of the elections.
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