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[Appollowexx]

Do people honestly think next gen console games will be visually above games like Star Wars 1414 or Metro Last Light? Get real.

Do you honestly believe these (most likely launch) games are the height of next gen console graphics? Don't be naive. Look at the first wave of games on 360. Stuff like Kameo, call of duty 2, Prey. A year later Gears of War. Then stuff like God of War 3, Uncharted 2, Gears 3, Halo 4, Killzone 3. Games don't just start out with no room for improvement. Coding in a closed environment for a console where you can fully optimise everything, is totally different to PC. Star Wars 1313 is what you'll see in the first year. 4 years in and it will be closer to Agni Philosiphy level.

 

[Dictator93]

Even better test, see if a X800, 6800 or 7800 will run FarCry 3 @ 1280x720 on medium settings and then compare it to the xbox 360 version

xbox360 does not even run on medium settings probably. Moot point. But yeah... lowest settings on one of those pcs would be interesting to see

 

[kinggroin]

4x MSAA

You mean 4x super sampling....right?

 

[Durante]

Do you honestly believe these (most likely launch) games are the height of next gen console graphics? Don't be naive. Look at the first wave of games on 360. Stuff like Kameo, call of duty 2, Prey. A year later Gears of War. Then stuff like God of War 3, Uncharted 2, Gears 3, Halo 4, Killzone 3. Games don't just start out with no room for improvement. Coding in a closed environment for a console where you can fully optimise everything, is totally different to PC. Star Wars 1313 is what you'll see in the first year. 4 years in and it will be closer to Agni Philosiphy level.

You mean the level that is running in realtime, on PC, right now, a year before those consoles even release? That level?

 

[cobragt4001]

The consoles clearly won't be able to do that, but i also can't see PC gamers being able to play nex gen games at insane resolutions and frame rates. Also, with regards to Metro, 2033 still doesn't run too well on top of the line Nvidia cards, so i'm not too sure about that. Though that is mainly because the devs messed up.

The devs of Last Light mentioned that their new game will be optimized alot more than 2033.

 

[99%]

Even better test, see if a X800, 6800 or 7800 will run FarCry 3 @ 1280x720 on medium settings and then compare it to the xbox 360 version

But but they werent made with those cards in mind

Just like games in two year time wont be made with todays cards in mind, as if devs and cardmakers will suddenly using latest tech only.

 

[ekim]

You mean the level that is running in realtime, on PC, right now, a year before those consoles even release? That level?

It's running on a fixed environment pc, yes.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The pivotal point, as I see it, is that PC has become so easy to maintain and support, that the traditional intrinsic advantage of it - modularity - is force multiplied.

I expect I'll have to upgrade some component on my PC over the next five years to stay "cutting edge" if I desire to remain so. But that's the point. I can choose to remain cutting edge, without changing consoles, or very much of anything else. While games obviously become more sophisticated over the course of a generation, certain things remain restricted by some hard limits.

For instance, Halo 4 may look amazing compared to Halo 3 in most ways. But it still runs at 30fps, can't run at 1080p, and has lower quality textures and IQ compared to a game on PC halfway through the 360's generation. All the optimization and new engines in the world couldn't change that.

Likewise, whatever launch software for the new consoles ends up representing in terms of visual fidelity, if patterns follow there will be certain aspects that don't ever get any better for the next 7 years. While on the PC side, if you want improvements in those areas, you'll be able to have them.

In years past, I think PCs suffered some major disadvantages and a lot of headaches that made maintaining a gaming PC and trying to stay current a pain in the ass, and also overly expensive. Not really the case anymore, in most ways.

 

[Corky]

You mean the level that is running in realtime, on PC, right now, a year before those consoles even release? That level?

You got it wrong. Agni's Philosophy is so advanced that it's running on pixie dust and unobtanium.

 

[benny_a]

You mean the level that is running in realtime, on PC, right now, a year before those consoles even release? That level?

To bring it back to the topic that the OP tried to create: Do you think you can purchase a PC now and play a game that looks like Agni's Philosophy whenever that launches 4 years down the road without upgrading the PC in question?

Edit: To emphasize: Game. Not tech demo with perfect culling where the next scene is 100% known.

 

[King_Moc]

Even better test, see if a X800, 6800 or 7800 will run FarCry 3 @ 1280x720 on medium settings and then compare it to the xbox 360 version

I doubt the game was made with those cards in mind. I'm not sure if devs have to do any optimisations for older cards with different architectures.

Do you honestly believe these (most likely launch) games are the height of next gen console graphics? Don't be naive. Look at the first wave of games on 360. Stuff like Kameo, call of duty 2, Prey. A year later Gears of War. Then stuff like God of War 3, Uncharted 2, Gears 3, Halo 4, Killzone 3. Games don't just start out with no room for improvement. Coding in a closed environment for a console where you can fully optimise everything, is totally different to PC. Star Wars 1313 is what you'll see in the first year. 4 years in and it will be closer to Agni Philosiphy level.

Agni was running at 60fps on a geforce 680. Which many of us here have.

 

[Eideka]

To bring it back to the topic that the OP tried to create: Do you think you can purchase a PC now and play a game that looks like Agni's Philosophy whenever that launches 4 years down the road without upgrading the PC in question?

Yeah, but that's going to be a 2000$ PC.

 

[Sethos]

To bring it back to the topic that the OP tried to create: Do you think you can purchase a PC now and play a game that looks like Agni's Philosophy whenever that launches 4 years down the road without upgrading the PC in question?

Depends how powerful the PC is today and what kind of settings you expect to play it at. However their tech demo was already showed on a current-gen card at 60FPS.

 

[cobragt4001]

@ekim

Bullshot vs actual screenshot.

I can only assume you are trolling now.

Now for real Horizon shots :

A PC screen from a replay :

Even the forza bullshot doesn't look as good lol

 

[KKRT00]

You got it wrong. Agni's Philosophy is so advanced that it's running on pixie dust and unobtanium.

Those arent available on my local hardware shop ;\

 

[Unicorn]

The whole thing that you did not really consider is the Wattage of modern graphics and the wattage of graphics cards then. Consoles could then have roughly top of the line GFX cards in them due to their power envelope. Now that is not even possible as they have gotten bigger and hotter. PCs can use more power and consoles cannot. They will then as a result have much more powerful GFX cards then put in nextgen consoles...

Your thread is sadly invalidated due to this point.

He fails to talk about how console games are better optimized than almost all PC "ports" and that's why you see the disparity in performance.

 

[BlackJace]

To bring it back to the topic that the OP tried to create: Do you think you can purchase a PC now and play a game that looks like Agni's Philosophy whenever that launches 4 years down the road without upgrading the PC in question?

Well yes, the demo ran on a single 680. Something that many of us currently possess.

 

[derExperte]

What I wanted to say is, that you would need a monster rig to play Horizon on a pc with the same IQ like the 360 version.

This thread went from strange to insane. There's nothing in Horizon that a solid PC would have problems with and I agree with the examples that were mentioned. In motion Dirt3 looks awesome on the highest settings on a normal PC. Play some tracks at night when it's snowing for example, posting screens from the desert stage (that looks very good in game) doesn't change anything.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Because his entire argument is that next gen will automatically play out the same way this gen did while ignoring the wealth of factors that suggest that isn't the case?

Well maybe the 1st poster should have said that instead of just mocking him

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Clearly, the OP's body is not ready.

 

[Eideka]

Even the forza bullshot doesn't look as good lol

IQ wise it does but the game look nowhere near as crisp.

I understand that ekim tries to damage control as best as he can but he has to accept the truth, those graphics talk leave no room for subjectivity.


Even at similar resolution : Dirt 3>>Forza Horizon.

 

[Sethos]

He fails to talk about how console games are better optimized than almost all PC "ports" and that's why you see the disparity in performance.

Which is the core and answer to this entire discussion. There's two reasons why Consoles of equal power to a PC can run games a bit better; because said game is very likely a port which does the PC no favours, plus developing for one set of hardware ( or two with the other console ) gives you a better chance of proper utilizing every bit of power it has. So all this only matters in the low-end PC spectrum.

 

[Appollowexx]

You mean the level that is running in realtime, on PC, right now, a year before those consoles even release? That level?

Yes and that has been optimised first on PC for tech demo reasons, games pushing the consoles with PC not in mind first will destroy current PC architecture. Try running something like Deus Ex HR on a top end PC from 2005. Even at 720p medium.

 

[Durante]

To bring it back to the topic that the OP tried to create: Do you think you can purchase a PC now and play a game that looks like Agni's Philosophy whenever that launches 4 years down the road without upgrading the PC in question?

Yes, absolutely. You probably won't be able to max out everything and run at 1440p, but at somewhat lower fidelity? Absolutely.

Of course, if you just upgrade your PC 3 years from now it will be much cheaper and with a better result.

And slightly OT, but I really hope S-E wises up and actually releases whatever it turns out to be on PC!

 

[benny_a]

Depends how powerful the PC is today and what kind of settings you expect to play it at. However their tech demo was already showed on a current-gen card at 60FPS.

The sky is the limit for how powerful.

What do you think a PC that would match the console version for a game of the visuals of Agni's Philosophy will cost.

One poster said $2000, I'm assuming he meant matching the console version down the line.

If we're talking about certain features like high res textures and better resolutions/AA/AF you are right. I can't really explain it but the fidelity of Horizon amazes me every time I play it. Maybe my comparison was wrong but you would need an a lot more powerful rig for horizon on pc than a pc with 360 hardware.

There is also the issue of perception. Diminishing returns. What you personally value, what other people value in graphics.
That Spec-Ops comparison I thought was making a good point. No idea if it was intended, but I don't think going from 2-3 or 1-2 unless I was looking at it closely is worth the power sacrifice.

 

[ekim]

This thread went from strange to insane. There's nothing in Horizon that a solid PC would have problems with and I agree with the examples that were mentioned. In motion Dirt3 looks awesome on the highest settings on a normal PC. Play some tracks at night when it's snowing for example, posting screens from the desert stage (that looks very good in game) doesn't change anything.

If we're talking about certain features like high res textures and better resolutions/AA/AF you are right. I can't really explain it but the fidelity of Horizon amazes me every time I play it. Maybe my comparison was wrong but you would need an a lot more powerful rig for horizon on pc than a pc with 360 hardware.

 

[99%]

I doubt the game was made with those cards in mind. I'm not sure if devs have to do any optimisations for older cards with different architectures.



Agni was running at 60fps on a geforce 680. Which many of us here have.

So what makes you think devs will optimize for old cards like 680 in 4/6 years? They wont.

 

[Sethos]

If we're talking about certain features like high res textures and better resolutions/AA/AF you are right. I can't really explain it but the fidelity of Horizon amazes me every time I play it. Maybe my comparison was wrong but you would need an a lot more powerful rig for horizon on pc than a pc with 360 hardware.

It amazes you because it's one of the few console games that aren't jaggied to hell and back.

Seems console owners have recently discovered smooth edges, something PC users have been enjoying for years and years.

 

[Majmun]

The OP makes sense when judging the Ps360 generation.

Don't know how PC cards will fare with the new gen, though.

 

[kinggroin]

If we're talking about certain features like high res textures and better resolutions/AA/AF you are right. I can't really explain it but the fidelity of Horizon amazes me every time I play it. Maybe my comparison was wrong but you would need an a lot more powerful rig for horizon on pc than a pc with 360 hardware.

Should have said this from the start. Much more reasonable.

 

[Eideka]

If we're talking about certain features like high res textures and better resolutions/AA/AF you are right.

Finally, you are admitting you were wrong.

I can't really explain it but the fidelity of Horizon amazes me every time I play it.

That is the problem, it only looks better in your eyes and knowledgeable people have destroyed your argument. Dirt 3, Dirt Showdown, Need For Speed Hot Pursuit, Most Wanted all trump Horizon any day of the week in the visual department.

Maybe my comparison was wrong but you would need an a lot more powerful rig for horizon on pc than a pc with 360 hardware.

Because you don't have the luxury of an extremely flexible API on PC. But then again I disagree, It would not take a PC that more powerful than a 360 to run it.

 

[99%]

The OP makes sense when judging the Ps360 generation.

Don't know how PC cards will fare with the new gen, though.

Time will tell

 

[BlackJace]

Also, most games released for the 8th gen consoles won't be super optimized technical masterpieces that we've come to expect from Naughty Dog, SSM, etc.

The average AAA game released will look quite worse by comparison.

 

[Durante]

I think people will be quite disappointed with the impact of "closed platform optimizations" next-gen. Console hardware will be quite similar to PC hardware (to the point that it's even x86), and the APIs will be similar as well. Of course it is an advantage to optimize for a fixed target platform, and a large one - maybe even to the tune of 50%. But that's a difference that will most likely be made up for in sheer performance vis-a-vis a high-end PC at launch already, and that's just the start.

The sky is the limit for how powerful.

What do you think a PC that would match the console version for a game of the visuals of Agni's Philosophy will cost.

One poster said $2000, I'm assuming he meant matching the console version down the line.

Why does this matter, really? Any remotely sane PC gamer will just do a $200 GPU upgrade after a few years. (with $200 he probably easily saved in cheaper game prices)

It amazes you because it's one of the few console games that aren't jaggied to hell and back.

I think that's pretty much on point. Forza Horizon is one of only a handful of "AAA" console games with acceptable IQ.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

You mean the level that is running in realtime, on PC, right now, a year before those consoles even release? That level?

What is your point here?

 

[longdi]

the fastest next gen specs rumored : amd hd8870, 8 cores 1.6ghz amd trinity apu, 6gb ram.
lol at TS.
my current pc smokes it, the next gen console gpu may put a better fight, but i wont count the 8870 in ps4720 to run at >1ghz core with 384bit hyper fast memory.

RE5 settings per the YT video link

Game Settings :
1024x768
V Sync Off
2x FSAA
Meduim Shadows
High Textures
Meduim Effects

I loose a lot of frames while recording, but when i'm just playing as normal the framerate is fantasticly good for an old 6800 !

I think the console version do not have FSAA, and running mid-low graphics options and certainly not running with fraps video recording in the back ground.

 

[2San]

I think after a few years into next gen a new GPU should be in order, but I really think the overclocked 2500k/3570K's will last people a long time. Intel seems to have no competition and relatively minor incentive to improve and I doubt the consoles will have anything close to those chips.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I gotta agree with the op. I don't think 680s will drive better gfx than games optimized for 8850s.

 

[benny_a]

Why does this matter, really? Any remotely sane PC gamer will just do a $200 GPU upgrade after a few years. (with $200 he probably easily saved in cheaper game prices)

Because that's the premise of this thread.

 

[King_Moc]

If we're talking about certain features like high res textures and better resolutions/AA/AF you are right. I can't really explain it but the fidelity of Horizon amazes me every time I play it. Maybe my comparison was wrong but you would need an a lot more powerful rig for horizon on pc than a pc with 360 hardware.

That's more like it. It'd be interested to see what an old PC could do with a comparable game at 720p, 30fps and comparable AA.

 

[Sethos]

Because that's the premise of this thread.

No, your post is just asking for a wild speculative answer that holds no answers or meaning.

 

[Durante]

What is your point here?

Isn't that obvious? My point is that it's quite amusing to see people argue for the power of consoles compared to PC by saying that consoles may even be able to reach "Agni's Philosophy"-level graphics by year 4, when those very graphics were running on PC at year -1.

 

[cobragt4001]

Back when BF2 was out PCs of that time were able to do 64players and 60fps while BFBC on the 360 and ps3 were only able to do 30fps and sub hd so even back in 06 and 05 the consoles were not as good PC

 

[i-Lo]

Enraging the PC community... never a good idea. They'll bury you with their specs.

Bottom line is once the next gen consoles are out, the overall average of fidelity will rise and the minimum specs will do so as well. Whether or not current PCs can handle what's coming comes down to each individual's PC's specs.

 

[99%]

Isn't that obvious? My point is that it's quite amusing to see people argue for the power of consoles compared to PC by saying that consoles may even be able to reach "Agni's Philosophy"-level graphics by year 4, when those very graphics were running on PC at year -1.

Too bad a tech demo isnt a game

 

[benny_a]

No, your post is just asking for a wild speculative answer that holds no answers or meaning.

This topic is about that your current rig can't play all late-game console titles at comparable graphics.

If there is no amount of money that can get you that at this point it's relevant.
If there is an amount of money that can get you a rig that will make that, then it's also relevant and the OP has a point against it.

 

[BlackJace]

Too bad a tech demo isnt a game

I can bet you'll be the first to cream yourself when MS and Sony inevitably show bullshots and CG tech demos for their next boxes.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Enraging the PC community... never a good idea. They'll bury you with their specs.

Bottom line is once the next gen consoles are out, the overall average of fidelity will rise and the minimum specs will do so as well. Whether or not current PCs can handle what's coming comes down to each individual's PC's specs.

The offense some people are taking from the op is ridiculous

 

[Lasthope106]

Interesting argument, but I don't believe nex-gen consoles will match the performance of pc hardware released in the past two years, let alone brand new pc components. The problem you fail to see OP is that there aren't games that take advantage of the power in pcs the way they developers "max" consoles. Take a look at the Witcher 2, Crysis 2, and Metro. Insanely looking pc games that can be run now at incredibly high resolutions.

Using last gen as an example of what is going to happen when the new consoles arrive isn't wise either.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Isn't that obvious? My point is that it's quite amusing to see people argue for the power of consoles compared to PC by saying that consoles may even be able to reach "Agni's Philosophy"-level graphics by year 4, when those very graphics were running on PC at year -1.

...except no game at that quality will be developed again for PC, so the fact that PCs can run it now is irrelevant. PC might get whatever game Agni's turns out to be but it'll still be a console port.

The last true PC AAA blockbuster megaton graphics horse exclusive was Crysis. That was the last real PC showpiece and it was 5 years ago. We're probably never going to see that again.

Edit- actually Warhead that came out in 2008, so it's been 4 years not 5.