Support NeoGAF

[Sosokrates]

343 studios doing fine?

U clearly dont think they are, so go waste somone else's time.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Is it first person? From what I gathered it is 3rd person and is supposed to play like Control. I could be wrong though.

First-person.

When key figures like the director are leaving before even the first gameplay trailer is released and you need to ask external developers like CD (fresh off the Avengers' bomba) to help it's clear there are issues.
And there have been multiple reports of Everwild being in dev hell as well.
Making games is not easy, especially under current circumstances.
We'll see what's happening with these games when they're finally showcased.

This; people leaving studios is normal. But we've not seen anything but a CG trailer and that was over a year ago. Having two key members leave before getting even a snippet of official gameplay is not the best look, even if things are going well behind the scenes.

And considering there are other things happening like with Everwild, that doesn't instill a great deal of confidence.

They said it's an FPS, but Perfect Dark has always had moments of third person also.

Some of us are hoping it'll give the option of first-person and third-person, like Bethesda game. But with more fluidity.

Oh gee, wonder how that happened?

Thank goodness they were blacklisted. At first I thought claims were exaggerated but when you realize the ONLY two Souls games they scored WELL below the MetaCritic average happened to both also be PlayStation-exclusive, it pretty much confirms they indeed had some type of agenda.

Then when you look at some of the games they rated higher than HFW, like Bleeding Edge, just makes the case against them stronger. That type of stuff needs to be weeded out of the reviews industry, and aggregate sites should delist sites engaging in obvious agendas to tank/drag down aggregates for highly specific games on fraudulent grounds.

Are you discovering why metacritic is shit?
There is always bias like this.

No, Stevivor was showing way more than a regular bias (which I wouldn't even call a bias, but a preference); you can prove they objectively scored specific games much lower than they likely would have otherwise if they were not PlayStation exclusives, when you look at their Souls series of reviews alone. The absolute vast majority would rank Bloodborne as one of the best (if not the best) Soulsborne-style game, and Demon's Souls remake was a very polished version of the PS3 original.

Why did Stevivor rate those games so low compared to virtually every other FromSoft Souls game, all of which also happened to be multiplatform? You can't find a consistent reasoning as to why, so that's very questionable. Again, having preferences when it comes to games is perfectly fine, we all have them. But when you let them become a negative bias that then gets used to push an agenda for console-warring by so-called professionals, you've gone too far.

I'm pretty sure there's at least one example of a review site doing this with an Xbox 1P game back in the past during XBO generation, and that wouldn't have been right, either. But at least we can spot an obvious case this time and consequences have been provided for such slimy practices.

 

[On Demand]

Being the highest rated publisher of the year is a good standard to have

For some games they never actually published and have nothing to do with and are not even on their platform.

Adding/removing low/high scoring games for Xbox while not doing the same for PlayStation.


Seems legit.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Riky]

How can you win publisher of the year for games you didn't publish?

 

[kingfey]

No, Stevivor was showing way more than a regular bias (which I wouldn't even call a bias, but a preference); you can prove they objectively scored specific games much lower than they likely would have otherwise if they were not PlayStation exclusives, when you look at their Souls series of reviews alone. The absolute vast majority would rank Bloodborne as one of the best (if not the best) Soulsborne-style game, and Demon's Souls remake was a very polished version of the PS3 original.

Why did Stevivor rate those games so low compared to virtually every other FromSoft Souls game, all of which also happened to be multiplatform? You can't find a consistent reasoning as to why, so that's very questionable. Again, having preferences when it comes to games is perfectly fine, we all have them. But when you let them become a negative bias that then gets used to push an agenda for console-warring by so-called professionals, you've gone too far.

I'm pretty sure there's at least one example of a review site doing this with an Xbox 1P game back in the past during XBO generation, and that wouldn't have been right, either. But at least we can spot an obvious case this time and consequences have been provided for such slimy practices.

​

The answer is simple. The guy is simply biased. HFW vs Halo infinite shows his intention.
Plus most reviews avoid the hard answers, because these companies can refuse to give them copies in the future for them to review. This isnt just for gaming, but for entertainment industry too.

There was a channel that did interesting review model. He broke down the reviews in to multiple stages. Grade them each, according to these stages. Add all tallies, then get the medium. That is the score he gives for his reviews.

 

[Hezekiah]

wow, this is a really interesting. If it’s true then that’s cool and I’m intrigued to see how the game turns out.

also, to touch on the halo infinite budget number I keep seeing thrown around on this forum. That bullshit 500 million dollar rumour for halo infinite is one of the best rumours turned into reality I’ve seen for a long time. It’s a prime example of get some person on your random European podcast…not get any for of an actual gigure, make one up and have it stick and be turned into reality by the internet…..madness.

even when the rumour of 500 mill was debunked by industry insiders and stinkles, it’s still floating around and being used in comments about the game.

Tbf the budget for Halo Infinite is ongoing because the initial scope (including Forge and co-op) is yet to be completed. And you're looking at a whopping 750 employees.

The bigger issue is how multiplayer has tailed off. Have we had any updates on how the game is doing? It definitely won't be meeting Microsoft's expectations looking at how the playerbase is tailing off, and the negative feedback from gaming websites and gamers on Reddit etc, and they'll want to make sure Perfect Dark is a big hit. I hope it's first-person though.

 

[Banjo64]

How can you win publisher of the year for games you didn't publish?

I’m convinced some people on here do nothing but this before posting:

 

[Hobbygaming]

Well Psychonauts 2 was still funded/published by XGS while Deathloop & Starfield aren’t.

Psychonauts 2 was already deep in development before they got funding from MS, they helped but mostly financially towards the end of the project

 

[CatLady]

For some games they never actually published and have nothing to do with and are not even on their platform.

Adding/removing low/high scoring games for Xbox while not doing the same for PlayStation.


Seems legit.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Please give us examples of low scoring games that were deleted and high scoring games that were included. As far as I can recall, unlike Sony, Xbox didn't have any low scoring dogs last year.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The answer is simple. The guy is simply biased. HFW vs Halo infinite shows his intention.
Plus most reviews avoid the hard answers, because these companies can refuse to give them copies in the future for them to review. This isnt just for gaming, but for entertainment industry too.

There was a channel that did interesting review model. He broke down the reviews in to multiple stages. Grade them each, according to these stages. Add all tallies, then get the medium. That is the score he gives for his reviews.

That's how reviews used to work back in the day for the vast majority of print publications. They'd score them on graphics, sound, controls, story, "fun factor" (GamePro did that for some reason) and then averaged them out. Others like EGM would have three or sometimes four people review the game with a score of 1-10 and you could infer an average based on that.

A few like Next Generation just did a star system, but at least you knew what each star represented since there were only five. Reviews today from a lost of Western outlets are either way too subjective (to the point of ignoring objective elements altogether) or use meaningless numbers & percentages. We already know what works because we have systems from the past that worked just fine and at least allowed for some objectivity and subjectivity in good balance.

But another issue is MetaCritic itself IMO, and how they determine the weight of certain reviews over others. It's based on nothing but website size and traffic, both of which can be bought or manipulated and aren't based on actual merit. A game can get ten 10s from smaller outlets but a 7 from an IGN suddenly tanks the entire aggregate much lower versus if they all had equal weight or if the one with more weight made sense based on merit (and possibly even in relation to the game being reviewed), and that can be manipulated. That type of weight system has to be done away with IMHO.

But back to the whole Stevivor thing; maybe you mean 'bias' in terms of preference? Because I personally use the two terms differently. If you do mean that though, then sure I can agree with that. But it's just, again, it's weird that the site as a whole seems to love the Souls game as much if not even slightly more than MetaCritic average, but for the only two Souls games that were PlayStation-exclusive, and otherwise high quality (at least one of which many fans would consider the best of the bunch), that same website rated them WAY lower than the MetacCritic average?

No, I think that's a bias that spills more so into being an agenda with malicious intent towards a platform for what amounts to console warring, when it's supposed to be a professional outlet. If they could somehow had justified those lower scores for those specific Souls games, fine. But they don't, and that's a big problem.

 

[Papacheeks]

It's not normal for a lead to leave let alone a Game Director without a path of succession. Cory wrote the outline for new Nordic God of war, sequel and is not directing Ragnarok. But that project had successor who worked with Barlog on 2018 God of war. So it was a graceful transition. When its a new team, new tools, new studio, and new project starting all from scratch, you will as development gets figured out and watercooler communication melding starts doing its thing as people may or maynot click. You are going to see a revolving door on the project if these people never worked together. FOr the most part Initiative was all new from all over the industry.

When one of the leads last year left I thought maybe because their job was specific their work was done. But they literally went back to the studio they originally left from? So to me to be there so short I would have to take a large assumption that the team was not melding or working environment wise to what person from Insomniac is use to.

Now the main Game director left without co-director taking over. WHich is what happened for Halo infinite, lead who had been with them over MCC and halo 5 left, co-lead took over which I see was more or less for temp, then they got joe staten in because that project was in trouble. And now it seems it was a whole culture/studio issue in how they manage teams/projects.

Now we have 2 lead people in a year have left without a path of succession. The way they he left quietly means they didn't want to make it public. And that usually means he/she left on their own.

I guess all we can do is speculate until we see it this E3. If we dont see it this E3, and there is no chatter on the project then I guess we have our answer. If we do see it, and its a Halo Infinite scenario, I can guarantee you heads will be rolling within XBox not just Initiative.

 

[Craig of War]

This thread become a dumpster fire real quick reading some of the comments give me an aneurysm

 

[Hobbygaming]

It's not normal for a lead to leave let alone a Game Director without a path of succession. Cory wrote the outline for new Nordic God of war, sequel and is not directing Ragnarok. But that project had successor who worked with Barlog on 2018 God of war. So it was a graceful transition. When its a new team, new tools, new studio, and new project starting all from scratch, you will as development gets figured out and watercooler communication melding starts doing its thing as people may or maynot click. You are going to see a revolving door on the project if these people never worked together. FOr the most part Initiative was all new from all over the industry.

When one of the leads last year left I thought maybe because their job was specific their work was done. But they literally went back to the studio they originally left from? So to me to be there so short I would have to take a large assumption that the team was not melding or working environment wise to what person from Insomniac is use to.

Now the main Game director left without co-director taking over. WHich is what happened for Halo infinite, lead who had been with them over MCC and halo 5 left, co-lead took over which I see was more or less for temp, then they got joe staten in because that project was in trouble. And now it seems it was a whole culture/studio issue in how they manage teams/projects.

Now we have 2 lead people in a year have left without a path of succession. The way they he left quietly means they didn't want to make it public. And that usually means he/she left on their own.

I guess all we can do is speculate until we see it this E3. If we dont see it this E3, and there is no chatter on the project then I guess we have our answer. If we do see it, and its a Halo Infinite scenario, I can guarantee you heads will be rolling within XBox not just Initiative.

I wonder if it was a 'too many cooks in the kitchen' type of situation at The Initiative

That many big names might make it more difficult for the studio to gel together or for everyone to be on the same page

There's something to be said with NBA teams that try to build an allstar roster, there has to be team chemistry for them to be great, even with the talent they have

 

[Papacheeks]

I wonder if it was a 'too many cooks in the kitchen' type of situation at The Initiative

That many big names might make it more difficult for the studio to gel together or for everyone to be on the same page

There's something to be said with NBA teams that try to build an allstar roster, there has to be team chemistry for them to be great, even with the talent they have

Yea, but also I don't understand why bring in Crystal Dynamics unless you were going to meld well? Lead director came from there, and had a hand in bringing them on board? Why do that just late last year, then leave if you were one of the main people who helped facilitate the use of Crystal Dynamics for full on Production? I wonder if the game is going in another direction? Unless the guys work was done? But with a game director you are the main driver behind the wheel for teams, Producer meetings on if your teams are meeting goals. You also are the first last line of defence to get more time for your game. You report directly to people like Mattr Booty.

So to leave before the game comes to market in a Director position is a big red flag. But it could be Crystal Dynamics is fully taking over project hence other lead leaving last year? If thats the case then I don't know what to expect.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Yea, but also I don't understand why bring in Crystal Dynamics unless you were going to meld well? Lead director came from there, and had a hand in bringing them on board? Why do that just late last year, then leave if you were one of the main people who helped facilitate the use of Crystal Dynamics for full on Production? I wonder if the game is going in another direction? Unless the guys work was done? But with a game director you are the main driver behind the wheel for teams, Producer meetings on if your teams are meeting goals. You also are the first last line of defence to get more time for your game. You report directly to people like Mattr Booty.

So to leave before the game comes to market in a Director position is a big red flag. But it could be Crystal Dynamics is fully taking over project hence other lead leaving last year? If thats the case then I don't know what to expect.

Those are some great points and yeah the game director leaving before the finalized gold disc, can't be good

 

[adamsapple]

More shovelware incoming for game pass.

 

[remember_spinal]

It's not normal for a lead to leave let alone a Game Director without a path of succession. Cory wrote the outline for new Nordic God of war, sequel and is not directing Ragnarok. But that project had successor who worked with Barlog on 2018 God of war. So it was a graceful transition. When its a new team, new tools, new studio, and new project starting all from scratch, you will as development gets figured out and watercooler communication melding starts doing its thing as people may or maynot click. You are going to see a revolving door on the project if these people never worked together. FOr the most part Initiative was all new from all over the industry.

When one of the leads last year left I thought maybe because their job was specific their work was done. But they literally went back to the studio they originally left from? So to me to be there so short I would have to take a large assumption that the team was not melding or working environment wise to what person from Insomniac is use to.

Now the main Game director left without co-director taking over. WHich is what happened for Halo infinite, lead who had been with them over MCC and halo 5 left, co-lead took over which I see was more or less for temp, then they got joe staten in because that project was in trouble. And now it seems it was a whole culture/studio issue in how they manage teams/projects.

Now we have 2 lead people in a year have left without a path of succession. The way they he left quietly means they didn't want to make it public. And that usually means he/she left on their own.

I guess all we can do is speculate until we see it this E3. If we dont see it this E3, and there is no chatter on the project then I guess we have our answer. If we do see it, and its a Halo Infinite scenario, I can guarantee you heads will be rolling within XBox not just Initiative.

Well said, and I think people underestimate how well oiled of a machine Sony’s first party studios are at this point.

Two leads leaving a new IP in a new studio is a much bigger concern then god of war keeping their tradition of switching directors.

 

[EDMIX]

smfh

This shit should have never been some reboot. Make a new IP and move the fuck on man. I like the direction MS was trying to go, but my god.....let the team do a fucking new IP. I don't even believe the Perfect Dark IP even holds that much weight and I'd argue this would hold it back more then help.

So normally I don't go all doom and gloom on such things as I get people leave all the time, but a fucking game director leaving? Several leads leaving on a reboot like this is questionable, but I'd have to hear more and see more to put a judgement on whats going on. Maybe its nothing at all, maybe if it flops we had warnings though.

 

[oldergamer]

Repetition of arguments for what?
It is a fact
There is an axiom and a theorem
For example, there is a theorem that Sonic is a good movie, but it requires proof.
The departure of the director after four years of work is an oddity and can be alarming - this is an axiom. There is nothing to prove here.

Look again stop claiming anything as fact. The only fact is you have no idea what you are talking about, or what the impact would be over one person leaving. For all you know they moved onto a new project and it was the right time. He left after 4 years. Thats a long time in the tech industry. Games industry

All you want to do here is make it a negative sounding as possible because its xbox related, "its a fact". Most tech jobs have people moving to something new after 3 years. " Its a fact" that people on GAF make a big deal over every xbox studio departure, even though you see people leaving jobs at sony studios all the time.

 

[Topher]

Weird timing. Good.....bad? No idea.

 

[Corrik]

I can’t tell if you’re being serious?

How is a game directors work even complete well before the game ships? Are you aware of what a director is?

Apparently you didn't read my post beforehand. Maybe stop console warring and read the post I originally wrote first, bud.

 

[Shmunter]

There’s this thing called review scores and player count/MAUs that devs use as key metric.

Sure, but every publisher comes out and says sales disappointed or exceeded projections. It’s still the standard approach to all industries.

 

[Sw0pDiller]

Ms pulled the wallet to buy the devs, now try to keep all the good people from going to other studio's. I feel that most devs don't like to be cut on funds, time and tools because the gamepass filosofy means average games, not great games.

 

[Dolodolo]

Look again stop claiming anything as fact. The only fact is you have no idea what you are talking about, or what the impact would be over one person leaving. For all you know they moved onto a new project and it was the right time. He left after 4 years. Thats a long time in the tech industry. Games industry

All you want to do here is make it a negative sounding as possible because its xbox related, "its a fact". Most tech jobs have people moving to something new after 3 years. " Its a fact" that people on GAF make a big deal over every xbox studio departure, even though you see people leaving jobs at sony studios all the time.

Yes bro
You opened me up
With Starfield being my most anticipated game of the year
But I hate xbox
Phil Spencer is the devil in the flesh
Game Director (Literally the brain of the whole game) and his departure - that's right. Bullshit. Personnel change. Every day happens.
Understand

 

[kuncol02]

Yea, but also I don't understand why bring in Crystal Dynamics unless you were going to meld well? Lead director came from there, and had a hand in bringing them on board? Why do that just late last year, then leave if you were one of the main people who helped facilitate the use of Crystal Dynamics for full on Production? I wonder if the game is going in another direction? Unless the guys work was done? But with a game director you are the main driver behind the wheel for teams, Producer meetings on if your teams are meeting goals. You also are the first last line of defence to get more time for your game. You report directly to people like Mattr Booty.

So to leave before the game comes to market in a Director position is a big red flag. But it could be Crystal Dynamics is fully taking over project hence other lead leaving last year? If thats the case then I don't know what to expect.

I don't know why everyone assume that he left CD on good terms. Maybe MS bringing them to work on Perfect Dark is reason why he left now?

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Didn't this guy use to work for Crystal Dynamics? One of the reasons why the studio was brought in was because of that right? And now he leaves?
That's odd tbh...

 

[Papacheeks]

Look again stop claiming anything as fact. The only fact is you have no idea what you are talking about, or what the impact would be over one person leaving. For all you know they moved onto a new project and it was the right time. He left after 4 years. Thats a long time in the tech industry. Games industry

All you want to do here is make it a negative sounding as possible because its xbox related, "its a fact". Most tech jobs have people moving to something new after 3 years. " Its a fact" that people on GAF make a big deal over every xbox studio departure, even though you see people leaving jobs at sony studios all the time.

Creative Director is a position similar to Director in films. They have the overall vision of said game. Sometimes have a hand in the games concept/inception/written story with examples to Cory barlog. But this position is the same position as halo infinite that sparked the article on its rocky development.

Not saying thats whats happening, but when someone like that leaves way before the game is going to release usually means difference of opinions or something didn't gell with said director on direction of project. Rarely do they leave mid production. Previous person who left last year was a lead for specific department at this studio. There work could have been complete, and since Crystal was coming in maybe it made no sense to stay?

But that lead left and literally went back to the same studio they had been with before.

To me it feels like the project has changed, and crystal is full taking over the entire project hence higher up people leaving.

 

[Punished Miku]

More like Imperfect Dark.

Boom. Thank you, I'll be here all night.

 

[Petopia]

U clearly dont think they are, so go waste somone else's time.

What about that player retention.

 

[Corrik]

As far as Everwild, I did hear multiple times that Rare has created the world and concept but has no idea how to actually instill gameplay or what to do with it yet. So, I don't now what's going on with that.

 

[Shmunter]

It’s not easy to create an fps these days. We’ve seen too much.

The only thing I’m yearning for in the genre is a gritty, slow paced, chunky stop and pop. Hello, we’ve got a product for you, Killzone 2

 

[Sosokrates]

What about that player retention.

What about not being a troll.

 

[Banjo64]

What about not being a troll.

I don’t think highlighting Halo Infinite’s declining player base is troll like behaviour.

If I were a MS shareholder, or Phil Spencer or Satya Nadella I’d be asking huge questions of 343.

No matter which way you cut it, Halo’s online losing half its player base month on month is not good.

3k current players on Steam right now, for Microsoft’s flagship series that’s gone free to play, it isn’t good viewing. It’s actually shambolic. Apex Legends currently has 217k players on Steam right now. Halo is having its shit kicked in.

The content pipeline has been horribly mismanaged, to the point where I’m now convinced the game can’t recover.

 

[Riky]

As far as Everwild, I did hear multiple times that Rare has created the world and concept but has no idea how to actually instill gameplay or what to do with it yet. So, I don't now what's going on with that.

It's just been slowed down by working from home, they are heading back to Twycross soon.

 

[Shmunter]

I don’t think highlighting Halo Infinite’s declining player base is troll like behaviour.

If I were a MS shareholder, or Phil Spencer or Satya Nadella I’d be asking huge questions of 343.

No matter which way you cut it, Halo’s online losing half its player base month on month is not good.

3k current players on Steam right now, for Microsoft’s flagship series that’s gone free to play, it isn’t good viewing. It’s actually shambolic. Apex Legends currently has 217k players on Steam right now. Halo is having its shit kicked in.

The content pipeline has been horribly mismanaged, to the point where I’m now convinced the game can’t recover.

They should have charged for it. People would feel more compelled to play it based on the investment

 

[Sosokrates]

I don’t think highlighting Halo Infinite’s declining player base is troll like behaviour.

If I were a MS shareholder, or Phil Spencer or Satya Nadella I’d be asking huge questions of 343.

No matter which way you cut it, Halo’s online losing half its player base month on month is not good.

3k current players on Steam right now, for Microsoft’s flagship series that’s gone free to play, it isn’t good viewing. It’s actually shambolic. Apex Legends currently has 217k players on Steam right now. Halo is having its shit kicked in.

The content pipeline has been horribly mismanaged, to the point where I’m now convinced the game can’t recover.

It is when the overall objective is to try and state a games quality.

Im mean yeah, halo infinite has poor player rentention, so what?

You can cherrypick faults with any game.
But the evidence supports halo infinite being a quality game and a success for the team. Could 343 improve? Absolutely, is 343 in terrible state? Fuck no, are they in a fantastic state? Fuck no, are they in a good state? Yes, they are.

 

[Sosokrates]

As far as Everwild, I did hear multiple times that Rare has created the world and concept but has no idea how to actually instill gameplay or what to do with it yet. So, I don't now what's going on with that.

I would like Everwild to be a game where you are a caretaker for the animals, you heard them, gather food and protect them. The depth would come from how the animals change and how the world changes and new threats and challenges are introduced over time.

 

[Banjo64]

It is when the overall objective is to try and state a games quality.

Im mean yeah, halo infinite has poor player rentention, so what?

You can cherrypick faults with any game.
But the evidence supports halo infinite being a quality game and a success for the team. Could 343 improve? Absolutely, is 343 in terrible state? Fuck no, are they in a fantastic state? Fuck no, are they in a good state? Yes, they are.

The games quality is multifaceted and subjective. Have they delivered a mechanically sound and satisfying game? Yes. Have they delivered enough content? No.

Do you think MS and 343 are happy with that player retention? Do you think they’re sat there saying; ‘Halo Infinite has poor player retention, so what?’? Do you think having 3k active players is a success for the team? I think that’s an abject failure.

I would argue that 343 are absolutely in a bad state and have issues with their work culture.

It took 4 years for them to fix MCC on Xbox to coincide with the Steam launch. It looks like we’ll have 1 new arena map within the first 9 months of Infinite’s launch.

Meanwhile 343 employees are talking about their main priority being work life balance, or not being able to do their job because Russia are bombing Ukraine.

Crazy shit.

 

[Shmunter]

It is when the overall objective is to try and state a games quality.

Im mean yeah, halo infinite has poor player rentention, so what?

You can cherrypick faults with any game.
But the evidence supports halo infinite being a quality game and a success for the team. Could 343 improve? Absolutely, is 343 in terrible state? Fuck no, are they in a fantastic state? Fuck no, are they in a good state? Yes, they are.

Bit off topic still, but what are you sourcing this info from? All is well seems too distant a longshot based on the performance of a f2p GaaS game.

There is always hope of things evolving for the positive of course, RB6 & No Mans Sky show a turn around is possible with time and perseverance.

 

[Hezekiah]

What about that player retention.

Yeah if you have a f2p game you need high retention rates so you can make back lots of money on mtx.

But you can tell from the most played charts that Halo is lower than you would expect. New maps not coming until May. It has been consumed by CoD.

 

[SlimySnake]

Starting to think there’s some issues. It is something I feel microsoft struggles with at their studios.

really hoping it turns out great but we will see. if there’s no gameplay this year from the big games they showed trailers for like 2 to 3 years ago im going to deffo start questioning their abilities to produce great games in a timely fashion.

I think Coalition Games, Playground games and yes, even 343i have proved that MS can churn out great games. I am not a big fan of Halo Infinite, but there is no doubt there is a quality game there. the GOTY awards speak for themselves.

That said, you have to wonder why the studio did not hire devs and become a full fledged studio after 4 years. Why is the game not even ready to show off after 4 years? Why is the director leaving the game without shipping it?

These are structural problems that Phil and others in the exec leaderships need to sort out. This studio is in LA where all the other major studios are. They shouldnt have had any issues staffing up. It's obvious MS has billions to spend on aquisitions. It's time to spend millions retaining talent and developing studios.

 

[oldergamer]

Yes bro
You opened me up
With Starfield being my most anticipated game of the year
But I hate xbox
Phil Spencer is the devil in the flesh
Game Director (Literally the brain of the whole game) and his departure - that's right. Bullshit. Personnel change. Every day happens.
Understand

You guys trying to paint this a certain way, simply put have no idea what his duties as game director were. Who he reported to, who he worked directly with, who he had influence over, how much control he had, and the list goes on. You're basing everything you state off assumptions about the role. I was in game development for 20 years, and can tell you the only fact is, roles and titles have different meaning, different expectations, across different companies. That is a fact!

Stop pretending you know something with next to no evidence or information. That is the point I'm making.

 

[Papacheeks]

I think Coalition Games, Playground games and yes, even 343i have proved that MS can churn out great games. I am not a big fan of Halo Infinite, but there is no doubt there is a quality game there. the GOTY awards speak for themselves.

That said, you have to wonder why the studio did not hire devs and become a full fledged studio after 4 years. Why is the game not even ready to show off after 4 years? Why is the director leaving the game without shipping it?

These are structural problems that Phil and others in the exec leaderships need to sort out. This studio is in LA where all the other major studios are. They shouldnt have had any issues staffing up. It's obvious MS has billions to spend on aquisitions. It's time to spend millions retaining talent and developing studios.

If the issue is culture at Microsoft then no amount of money will fix this issue within how they manage studios. Remember majority of people who made XBox what it is left eons ago. Phil came from PC software, mostly gaming, but even under his tenure at Microsoft Studios before everything changed they were having issues managing software projects. So to me Phil is also kind of part of the problem. On top of who else is in Division leadership roles at Microsoft. They took over and came from Enterprise sector not entertainment.

Shamous black, J allard all came from Direct X guy's so graphics, games, entertainment was their DNA. Which is why OG xbox and first couple years of 360 were a great legendary time for the brand.


Now? I feel Xbox has lost it's identity to becoming a enterprise service that is "trying" to find its way again through funding of enterprise ideals that align with rest of company.

 

[kuncol02]

That said, you have to wonder why the studio did not hire devs and become a full fledged studio after 4 years. Why is the game not even ready to show off after 4 years?

They didn't hired devs because they don't want to. Think about Initiative as experiment in game dev when basically everything outside prototyping and lead roles are outsourced.
Who said it's not ready to be shown off? Do you have list of games from next MS showcase? We know it was in somewhat playable state quite long time ago.

 

[Petopia]

What about not being a troll.

Nah man i got as much stake on you with this one since the og trilogy made by bungie were the best games.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I don’t think highlighting Halo Infinite’s declining player base is troll like behaviour.

If I were a MS shareholder, or Phil Spencer or Satya Nadella I’d be asking huge questions of 343.

No matter which way you cut it, Halo’s online losing half its player base month on month is not good.

3k current players on Steam right now, for Microsoft’s flagship series that’s gone free to play, it isn’t good viewing. It’s actually shambolic. Apex Legends currently has 217k players on Steam right now. Halo is having its shit kicked in.

The content pipeline has been horribly mismanaged, to the point where I’m now convinced the game can’t recover.

It's still doing well on Xbox (by far its main platform). It's slowly dropping though, lack of content is slowly killing it. Hope 343 get their shit together.

 

[Sosokrates]

Nah man i got as much stake on you with this one since the og trilogy made by bungie were the best games.

So you think 343 is in a bad state? I dont understand your point?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

smfh

This shit should have never been some reboot. Make a new IP and move the fuck on man. I like the direction MS was trying to go, but my god.....let the team do a fucking new IP. I don't even believe the Perfect Dark IP even holds that much weight and I'd argue this would hold it back more then help.

So normally I don't go all doom and gloom on such things as I get people leave all the time, but a fucking game director leaving? Several leads leaving on a reboot like this is questionable, but I'd have to hear more and see more to put a judgement on whats going on. Maybe its nothing at all, maybe if it flops we had warnings though.

I was kinda surprised they put Initiative on PD as well at first. If I'm thinking of a AAAA studio making an IP fitting that description, I don't think of Perfect Dark. That IP hasn't been relevant since 2005, and Zero wasn't exactly praised universally. Even the original game, if you go trying to play it now on actual N64 hardware, it's VERY rough and back in the day plenty of reviews complained about the framerate.

Let's hope the showing at E3 (if it's there) impresses and impresses undoubtedly. Otherwise I think overall anticipation for this game is going to plummet.

Ms pulled the wallet to buy the devs, now try to keep all the good people from going to other studio's. I feel that most devs don't like to be cut on funds, time and tools because the gamepass filosofy means average games, not great games.

Unrelated to this but I'm curious if any of the $69 billion MS are going to pay for ABK includes money for employee and top-talent retention. Bungie is nowhere near the clusterf*ck of ABK in terms of workplace culture but even there, Sony have $1.2 billion of the $3.6 billion set aside for retaining employees and top talent.

How much of the $69 billion, or other money put on top, would Microsoft need to offer in order to retain key non-problematic talent at the ABK studios from leaving before the acquisition's completed? I'm guessing a lot more than $1.2 billion, maybe closer to $7 billion - $10 billion would be my guess. But we know the $69 billion is just for the company itself and its assets; anything for employee retention comes on top of that.

I don't agree with the GP stuff there, though xD . I don't think games like Halo Infinite or even Crossfire X are the result of the service so much as they are incompetent & lazy management. However what tie that has to the framework of a service and if things are being forced into a live-service GaaS direction against their best interests, to where we can say the service itself is holding back quality long-term, we need more time before making those claims.

That said I do think Starfield, RedFall and FM8 will be big tests there; they NEED to land bigger and sustain attention a lot better than Halo Infinite and FH5 managed to do. Particularly the first two, because those are new IP and would also show MS can successfully introduce and maintain new 1P AAA IP that aren't just the usual Forza Gears Halo.

Creative Director is a position similar to Director in films. They have the overall vision of said game. Sometimes have a hand in the games concept/inception/written story with examples to Cory barlog. But this position is the same position as halo infinite that sparked the article on its rocky development.

Not saying thats whats happening, but when someone like that leaves way before the game is going to release usually means difference of opinions or something didn't gell with said director on direction of project. Rarely do they leave mid production. Previous person who left last year was a lead for specific department at this studio. There work could have been complete, and since Crystal was coming in maybe it made no sense to stay?

But that lead left and literally went back to the same studio they had been with before.

To me it feels like the project has changed, and crystal is full taking over the entire project hence higher up people leaving.

Yeah with all the news of key departures it's clear things are somewhat shaky at The Initiative. Aren't most of the people there who would typically be leads on other teams for other games? So who do you determine leads a group of leaders? Could egos be coming into play since the majority at The Initiative, IIRC, are senior-level position type of talent?

It's kind of like arranging an all-star reunion but not considering all the inflated egos clashing that end up ruining the party. Not saying that's what's happening with The Initiative but it's a possibility, to what degree we don't know. So it's not surprising they brought in Crystal Dynamics but does CD have multiple teams itself? If so which part of CD is working with The Initiative? What's the hierarchy look like between them and The Initiative and could that cause conflicts?

As far as Everwild, I did hear multiple times that Rare has created the world and concept but has no idea how to actually instill gameplay or what to do with it yet. So, I don't now what's going on with that.

That's the other big curiosity point insofar as announced Xbox 1P games from XGS. If we don't hear anything about it at E3 this year it's probably time to start asking some tough questions.

I don’t think highlighting Halo Infinite’s declining player base is troll like behaviour.

If I were a MS shareholder, or Phil Spencer or Satya Nadella I’d be asking huge questions of 343.

No matter which way you cut it, Halo’s online losing half its player base month on month is not good.

3k current players on Steam right now, for Microsoft’s flagship series that’s gone free to play, it isn’t good viewing. It’s actually shambolic. Apex Legends currently has 217k players on Steam right now. Halo is having its shit kicked in.

The content pipeline has been horribly mismanaged, to the point where I’m now convinced the game can’t recover.

Yeah not to be a Debbie Downer but things are embarrassing for Halo Infinite right now. I get it, the franchise isn't the leader of FPS like it used to be during the Bungie era. But Infinite was supposed to be a big, revolutionary return to form in at least some capacity, right? Well who can say it's honestly living up to even those expectations with the way it's currently performing not just on Steam (which is horrible), but even on Xbox, where you'd expect it to be at least in Top 3 Most Played yet it's not.

It just seems like Joseph Staten was brought in a bit too late before the 2021 launch, and there are still other upper management at 343i who probably have more sway over how things are proceeding, stuck in their ways. Whatever mindshare the game had with new fans is long dead, and I don't think even Battle Royale can bring them back. They'll basically have to completely re-launch this game once they have BR, new MP map content, campaign co-op and Forge modes ready to roll. AND a new campaign to push alongside the co-op that's got a really good story.

Give it a massive marketing blitz and they might be able to revitalize hype for the game and finally capitalize on some of that newer market they need, but they can't have anymore screw-ups between now and that point. No more awkward-to-terrible communication with the core fanbase. No more guesswork for the fans on what the roadmap looks like. No more excuses for the bad progression system (which also probably needs to be heavily restructured).

They either come correct from here on or Halo Infinite is permanently dead for everyone except the most diehard of franchise fans. And 343i probably needs a major shakeup on the management side of things going forward, too.

 

[Dolodolo]

You guys trying to paint this a certain way, simply put have no idea what his duties as game director were. Who he reported to, who he worked directly with, who he had influence over, how much control he had, and the list goes on. You're basing everything you state off assumptions about the role. I was in game development for 20 years, and can tell you the only fact is, roles and titles have different meaning, different expectations, across different companies. That is a fact!

Stop pretending you know something with next to no evidence or information. That is the point I'm making.

I have no idea what game you were developing there.
Probably Tetris.
Since you still cannot understand who the game director is and how important he is for any project

 

[Petopia]

So you think 343 is in a bad state? I dont understand your point?

Yes it is, you trying tobe sarcastic?