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PES 2015 : 1080P 60 FPS on PS4 - 720P 60 FPS on X1

Chobel

Chobel

Member
Final Verdict said:
I'm still just not buying that eSRAM could be causing all the problems here.
And yes I know the IQ is different, but 1080p-720p is still a 120% difference in rendering power, and we know that there are ways around the eSRAM's limitations if you use it right. (Diablo 3 is a good example of this).
Click to expand...

MS had to send team of engineers to make that happen though, Xbone version of Diablo 3 and Destiny would end up in 900p if it wasn't for MS help. Obviously MS didn't send help to Konami, yet.
Final Verdict said:
My point was that if they really had put effort into optimization, there wouldn't be such crappy results. If you look at the lineup of AAA games coming this holiday, most are going to be very close or the same for X1 as with PS4.

-Lords of the Fallen is 900p-1080p
-AC Unity is aiming for complete parity
-We know Cod will be above 720p on X1, and was running close to 900p in an early build
-Alien Isolation will be 1080p on both.
-The Halo MCC will also be 1080p 60fps

I mean I'm just saying that is is very possible to get better results than 720p out of Xb1, even in 60fps games, and if they had really tried, then they would have better results.
Click to expand...

Again different games and different engines, most likely all of them are using forward renderer. Also AC:U and CoD probably had help from MS since they're both advertised for Xbone.
 
W

Wickerbasket

Member
mrb1972 said:
What's the point in recycling the same conversation, you guys cant keep on and on at me as much as you like - I will stick to my opinion thanks
Click to expand...
Your opinion is wrong though. Opinions can be wrong.

Edit: I still don't understand why people continue to be surprised by games running at a lower resolution on Xbox One, it was always going to happen with the difference in specs at some point.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Maybe if Konami write a custom engine for football games it would be more efficient and run better on Xbox one. But then they'd get shat on for not leveraging the course tech they have in the fox engine and being wasteful.
 
R

Ramrock

Banned
mrb1972 said:
Brilliant - I hereby award the title of "Most Stupid Post Today"
Click to expand...
You shoud check your post history in this thread, though.
By the way... with the better RAM (GDDR5), it should be waaay over 125%.We're talking about some Saiyajin level shit here.
Paganmoon said:
125% is probably overstating the fact though, lets not give him more fuel for his "fanboys hate me" shtick. On PES it's most likely the eSRAM as stated earlier that's the real bottleneck.
Click to expand...
Hey, let me have some fun with him.
 
M

mrb1972

Banned
Wickerbasket said:
Your opinion is wrong though. Opinions can be wrong.

Edit: I still don't understand why people continue to be surprised by games running at a lower resolution on Xbox One, it was always going to happen with the difference in specs at some point.
Click to expand...

It's not wrong, but thanks for the advice anyway
 
K

Kysen

Member
BeforeU said:
lol that's not exactly how it works. They probably go and tell them tricks and tips of using the machine more efficiency. I highly doubt they actually work on the game, because you can't just pick up on a game at the end and start fixing it which is been in development for years. Unless they are straight up geniuses.
Click to expand...
er that's exactly how it works, hell I'm on a software dev project right now doing something similar(joining late, unknown code base). What do you think documentation is for?
 
C

Cthulhu_Steev

Member
Final Verdict said:
I'm still just not buying that eSRAM could be causing all the problems here.
And yes I know the IQ is different, but 1080p-720p is still a 120% difference in rendering power, and we know that there are ways around the eSRAM's limitations if you use it right. (Diablo 3 is a good example of this).
Click to expand...

Are you deliberately ignoring all the suggestions and evidence pointing toward the larger memory footprint for deferred rendering creating some issues for the 32MB eSRAM ?

It was highlighted as been a potential sticking point last year when the specs were known.
 
J

Jack cw

Member
AShep said:
Exactly. I don't know why people keep mentioning it in such a "herp derp MS engineers" fashion.

If they have the available resources, why not use them?
Click to expand...

The question is, why not making a system that is easy to use and efficient at the same time? You cant build up a business and throw money at it and making losses since the launch of the original xbox. Even Microsoft cant and wont do this forever. Right now, they do this only to keep the negative PR at a minimum, but it's inevitable, when the big titles launch in a few weeks.
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
Jack cw said:
The question is, why not making a system that is easy to use and efficient at the same time? You cant build up a business and throw money at it and making losses since the launch of the original xbox. Even Microsoft cant and wont do this forever. Right now, they do this only to keep the negative PR at a minimum, but it's inevitable, when the big titles launch in a few weeks.
Click to expand...
It's all relative though. It only seems difficult by way of PS4's extremely simplistic alternative. The XBO's design is very much a maturation of the 360, which last generation developers couldn't wait to heap praise upon.

MS didn't really change, Sony just went from one extreme to the other, which casts the MS systems in a different light.
 
J

Jack cw

Member
StuBurns said:
It's all relative though. It only seems difficult by way of PS4's extremely simplistic alternative. The XBO's design is very much a maturation of the 360, which last generation developers couldn't wait to heap praise upon.

MS didn't really change, Sony just went from one extreme to the other, which casts the MS systems in a different light.
Click to expand...

That is true of course, but even Microsoft witnessed what happened to Sony and how devs treated PS3. Apparently Sony talked to devs and learned that the system had to be as simple as possible to be also cost efficient for developers. With the amount of money and resources at Microsoft, this sounds more like an excuse. Actuallly, it sounds like being arrogant and unable to read the market.
 
M

mrb1972

Banned
Conduit said:
Not quite, i mean 1080p/60fps not for all Halo's, at least SP campaign. H2 SP for now is not 1080, either 60 fps.
Click to expand...

Isn't that because they are running two engines at the same time so you can flick between the old and new versions - don't know why they don't just stick to the one version
 
J

JoJo UK

Unconfirmed Member
TheGuardian said:
Are you sure? Where have you seen this? I was under the impression it was 1080/60 for all the games in the collection.
Click to expand...
I was under that impression too, Conduit where did you read about it not hitting 1080/60?
 
EventHorizon

EventHorizon

Member
StuBurns said:
It's all relative though. It only seems difficult by way of PS4's extremely simplistic alternative. The XBO's design is very much a maturation of the 360, which last generation developers couldn't wait to heap praise upon.

MS didn't really change, Sony just went from one extreme to the other, which casts the MS systems in a different light.
Click to expand...

On one side you have the PS4 which has a larger potential audience, is easier to program for, and has the better hardware. On the other side you have the XB1 which is none of those things. At some point a developer is going to look at the XB1 side of the equation and just say..."Eh, that's good enough".

The XB1 has the double problem of being more expensive to develop on and giving a lower level of return. Why would any sane developer spend a disproportionate amount of limited development resources on a platform unable to match the returns possible on its competitor?
 
C

Conduit

Banned
C

Cthulhu_Steev

Member
mrb1972 said:
Isn't that because they are running two engines at the same time so you can flick between the old and new versions - don't know why they don't just stick to the one version
Click to expand...

Why would they run two engines consecutively? That's an obscene use of resources just to offer a split-second comparison that people will use once or twice. Surely they could just run them individually and switch engines when required within a second - like photomode.
 
M

mrb1972

Banned
Ramrock said:
Man, you should check it out. Pure comedy gold.
Click to expand...

I had a look yesterday, couldn't work out the motive behind it, if he made money off website ads I could understand it would be used for clickbait - seems like a lot of time and effort for nothing really
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
BeforeU said:
Well I dont know if you have ever done any programming before. But as a programmer myself I can tell you, that you cant just pick up someone else's code and start working it that fast. It takes weeks to even understand whats going on before you make any changes and I am talking small programs, i cant imagine how many things goes into making a game.
Click to expand...

I'm also a programmer, and while it's not easy to understand and improve some other people code, it's still doable. MS, Sony and have teams exactly for that. You call them "geniuses", I call them people doing their job.

So no, sending engineers doesnt mean they pick up game from developers hand and start fixing shit.
Click to expand...

Why do you have to strawman this? Game developers and the engineers will be working together.

If I can guess, they probably go through the problems developers are having and then tell them few things they could do to improve this and that. May be show them with few examples.
Click to expand...

So they're working and changing the game code? How is that not "work on the game"?
 
H

Head.spawn

Junior Member
mrb1972 said:
Isn't that because they are running two engines at the same time so you can flick between the old and new versions - don't know why they don't just stick to the one version
Click to expand...

Yeah, I get that they want to make that effect perfect and all, but they really should just throw it in the start menu. It's certainly a cool feature and I'll definitely be using it, but I'm not going to be sitting there toggling it on/off like a mad man. Maybe during the first run through I'll use it more often; besides that I'll either be running through the game with option-a or option-b on and not bouncing between the two.
 
S

shandy706

Member
Speaking of deferred rendering, the X1 can handle it fine above 720p with a combination of it and forward+.

I do believe the incredible looking Ryse (900p) uses both deferred rendering and forward+.

I don't expect something like PES to push gaming tech like Crytek though, lol.

Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anyone discussing other games successfully implementing deferred at higher resolutions.
 
M

mrb1972

Banned
Cthulhu_Steev said:
Why would they run two engines consecutively? That's an obscene use of resources just to offer a split-second comparison that people will use once or twice. Surely they could just run them individually and switch engines when required within a second - like photomode.
Click to expand...

Im not sure exactly , there are some interviews with the dev's about it on the web, although they seemed to think it would be fine by launch time
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
Kampfheld said:
The XBO architecture and all that cloud talk will make much more sense in future.
Click to expand...

Isn't that like just two games? Crackdown and your game?

shandy706 said:
Speaking of deferred rendering, the X1 can handle it fine above 720p with a combination of it and forward+.

I do believe the incredible looking Ryse (900p) uses both deferred rendering and forward+.

I don't expect something like PES to push gaming tech like Crytek though, lol.

Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anyone discussing other games successfully implementing deferred at higher resolutions.
Click to expand...

PvZ:GW use deferred rendering and it's 900p.
 
J

Jack cw

Member
shandy706 said:
Speaking of deferred rendering, the X1 can handle it fine above 720p with a combination of it and forward+.

I do believe the incredible looking Ryse (900p) uses both deferred rendering and forward+.

I don't expect something like PES to push gaming tech like Crytek though, lol.
Click to expand...

Apples... Oranges...
Ryse is an exclusive that got high priority from Microsoft and the whole team at Crytek could utilize their work into that one version. PES is made by a rather small team and uses the Fox Engine made by Kojima Productions. The latest build is the one from GZ and TPP demo and is already optimized for all plattforms. A small team has to work mostly on the lead system (PS4) and some other department/ part of the dev team is handling the port to other systems. There is neither time or money to optimize the code of the engine for one system that isn't even giving the returns to invest that money into it. And while Ryse struggled to have a solid 30 fps, PES runs at least with locked 60 fps.
 
P

Percy

Banned
shandy706 said:
Speaking of deferred rendering, the X1 can handle it fine above 720p with a combination of it and forward+.

I do believe the incredible looking Ryse (900p) uses both deferred rendering and forward+.

I don't expect something like PES to push gaming tech like Crytek though, lol.

Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anyone discussing other games successfully implementing deferred at higher resolutions.
Click to expand...

Ryse struggled to even run at a consistent 30fps though.
 
OsirisBlack

OsirisBlack

Banned
mrb1972 said:
I was thinking more along the lines of COD, AC Unity
Click to expand...
Right now COD AW is only 882p (if memory serves me correctly) which is a really weird number. And if unity is aiming for parity I wont feel bad skipping it this go around I actually wish Rogue was for next gen but maybe it will get a remaster.
 
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