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[TBiddy]

Recore should have been baked a little longer Phil, don´t blame reviewers

He doesn't. Read the full interview.

And I think seven, eight, nine, like anywhere in there is fine. Three or four… I mean somebody gave Forza Horizon 3 a four. I think there's certain reviews that are written more to get clicked on than they are to actually accurately reflect the quality of the game, and that kind of bums me out.

I'd wish the OP was updated to reflect this.

 

[AnthonypUK]

It's also relative to a games budget. A Call of Duty game selling 2 million copies and a Sniper Elite game selling 2 million copies are two very different things.

It sold about 7k since release in xboxes second best territory, unless the game cost 100k to make, it aint selling well.

 

[Chobel]

I'm not buying this "out of context" talk, I mean I'm supposed to believe FH3 talk was out of blue and totally unrelated?

 

[intheinbetween]

He doesn't. Read the full interview.

There's no need to read the interview, just read what many have already quoted from the interview. If people are still outraging because of the OP it's just because a) they don't reallu care b) they're too lazy

 

[Noobcraft]

He doesn't. Read the full interview.

Hard to blame people when GameStop misinterpreted Phil Spencer's quote and wrote a misleading article about it. The full interview makes it absolutely clear that he was referring to the 4/10 Forza Horizon 3 review.

"Three or four… I mean somebody gave Forza Horizon 3 a four. I think there's certain reviews that are written more to get clicked on than they are to actually accurately reflect the quality of the game, and that kind of bums me out."

 

[jelly]

It's true sometimes but not enough to sway the metacritic score much one way or another.

 

[Clear]

Why do people get so defensive whenever the integrity of the gaming media is questioned?

As a field, I'd (charitably) describe it as "mostly shit".

 

[Raylan]

And I'm calling bullshit on "selling well"

I guess this message was for to the more casual people/gamers that don't follow any sales threads on certain boards/sites.
I mean, we know it's not selling well. Same goes for Quantum Break on the XBO.

 

[wapplew]

It sold about 7k since release in xboxes second best territory, unless the game cost 100k to make, it aint selling well.

Maybe it did well digitally, maybe did well worldwide, maybe their target is not making money but drive more MAU?
The boss is happy with it, job well done?

 

[Alo0oy]

Low scores for clicks was never a thing, there's no reviewer out there that thinks "I'm gonna give this a 5 for clicks lulz".

I don't know where people got this from, I think the UC3 and Zelda reviews that gave those games 8.5 or something (as if that score is anywhere near clickbaity lol).

 

[slash3584]

I mean it's not about Recore, but he actually said that reviewers give lower scores to get more clicks.

 

[Spectone]

That FH3 review is actually 2/5
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/forza-hori...s-drifts-off-wheel-xboxs-latest-racer-1582149
I can understand why that would be upsetting. Reading that review and looking at the score given makes no sense.

 

[rrc1594]

Hard to blame people when GameStop misinterpreted Phil Spencer's quote and wrote a misleading article about it. The full interview makes it absolutely clear that he was referring to the 4/10 Forza Horizon 3 review.

Interview was 2/5. Obviously Eddie Makuch is bored with gaming journalism

 

[Varg]

Did anyone read the actual interview ? Should be bad Gaf instead of bad Phil. Embarrassing.

 

[giant_frying_pan]

The thing is, the whole concept of a number at the end of a review is the part that drives the most traffic. I don't think reviewers deliberately inflate or deflate a score just to get more traffic. They'd probably prefer that their review was actually read and considered.

Phil should fine tune his argument towards scores in general. But as a marketer, I'm sure he'd happily take the chance to plaster a plethora of 90+'s over a game's ad campaign.

 

[Caddyshack]

Yikes... that's the kind of claim that is embarassing to read in a forum post (And boy do you ever see claims like that crop up regularly on Neogaf. See: the review threads for Recore and FH3.), but to see the top guy at Xbox saying the same things is just... yeesh...

Recore bombing must have hit hard.

he never said playstation fans are worse, fuck you guys are sensitive about this guy

There's some projecting to chew on.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Just read the interview more closely. The interviewer is specifically asking him about Recore. Then he says that scores from 7 and up would be fair and points out 3s and 4s as "too harsh" (Recore got a lot of 4s). He then kinda just trails off and gives another example of forza also getting a 4. Then he talks about reviews in general.

I'm pretty certain he's talking about both reviews for recore and forza when he says some reviewers are doing it for the clicks.

 

[Chris1]

I'm not buying this out of context talk, I mean I'm supposed to believe FH3 talk was out of blue and totally unrelated?

It's not really out of the blue, I just quoted the important part. Here's the full question & answer. It is sort of unrelated but it's not like he dodged the question either. It was probably the wrong time to say it, but I feel like he just got carried away and strayed away from the question at hand (Recore) and talked about in general.

I do think he meant more than FH3, and not solely that game, but I don't think he was speaking about Recore.

How do you feel about the response to ReCore from critics, given it was highlighted as one of the major Xbox One exclusives?

I feel great about ReCore. About being able to work with with Inafune-san and Armature. And I'm very proud that it's in our portfolio. I wish it reviewed higher, but I don't necessarily look at the reviews as a reflection of the game's importance to us. The game is selling well, which I like. The gamers' response to the game has been positive, which is the most important thing.

And we priced ReCore lower than a full triple-A game because we knew the game that we were building and the size of the team, I wanted to make sure that people felt like it was fair value for what it was. I think in the end that was a good decision, because I think trying to get people to buy a $60 game when it's not a $60 game short-term might feel like a money-making thing but in the long run I don't think it helps the game or the IP.

On the reviews, honestly I thought some of the reviews were a little harsh in terms of their view on the game. But for us, inside, again I feel really proud to have the character, the story, the gameplay style, and the partnership with Armature and Inafune-san as part of our portfolio.

I didn't try to tell anybody that it was a ten. I think we knew, as with any games, that there are certain things… if we started from the beginning and we knew what we'd get, there's a couple of things we would've done slightly differently. But we're very proud of how the game ended up. And I think seven, eight, nine, like anywhere in there is fine. Three or four… I mean somebody gave Forza Horizon 3 a four. I think there's certain reviews that are written more to get clicked on than they are to actually accurately reflect the quality of the game, and that kind of bums me out.

 

[PrivateRyan]

Did anyone read the actual interview ? Should be bad Gaf instead of bad Phil. Embarrassing.

This.

Already seeing this thread being linked to and spreading on Twitter.

Sigh.

 

[OléGunner]

Hard to blame people when GameStop misinterpreted Phil Spencer's quote and wrote a misleading article about it. The full interview makes it absolutely clear that he was referring to the 4/10 Forza Horizon 3 review.

"Three or four… I mean somebody gave Forza Horizon 3 a four. I think there's certain reviews that are written more to get clicked on than they are to actually accurately reflect the quality of the game, and that kind of bums me out."

Even then he shouldn't say that shit.
As head of Xbox there's no reason to invite such scrutiny, just leave the games to speak for themselves.

Why draw attention to a couple negative reviews even if you think its harsh?

I guess this message was for to the more casual people/gamers that don't follow any sales threads on certain boards/sites.
I mean, we know it's not selling well. Same goes for Quantum Break on the XBO.

Every game MS puts out sells well when we sometimes have data that suggests otherwise.

Tbf PR gonna PR.

 

[MM4nson]

Spencer was right. ReCore didn't deserve a 6 or a 5 or a 4.

 

[duckroll]

Why do people get so defensive whenever the integrity of the gaming media is questioned?

As a field, I'd (charitably) describe it as "mostly shit".

I don't think you have to be defensive or have a high opinion of the gaming media to see how such comments are petty. For a person in a position of responsibility for a product/team/service/brand/whatever, it is never good form to throw shade when you underperform. Football managers talking shit about referees, Olympians suggesting that opponents are drug cheats, film directors saying critics are out to get them, etc. These are all petty excuses. Is there possibly truth in some of these statements? Sure. But you let other people and other outlets defend your record or point out inconsistencies, doing it yourself especially when there is no evidence reeks of deflection and it is always frowned upon.

 

[Shiggy]

Some publishers give developers a low budget and tight development schedule, and then wonder about low review scores.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Did anyone read the actual interview ? Should be bad Gaf instead of bad Phil. Embarrassing.

The question posed was purely about recore though. I don't get how his answer was clearly about Horizon 3 when like 98% of his answer was about Recore.

 

[Synth]

Well, this goes without saying...

... which is why you shouldn't say it, lol. Not a good look.

 

[DESTROYA]

Maybe a few Phil, but most honest reviewers give low game scores because they deserve it.
It's all subjective anyway.

 

[Wulfram]

That FH3 review is actually 2/5
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/forza-hori...s-drifts-off-wheel-xboxs-latest-racer-1582149
I can understand why that would be upsetting. Reading that review and looking at the score given makes no sense.

Eh, 2/5 isn't really the same thing as 4/10 (not in reviews, obviously it is mathematically). People don't use the bottom of a 10 point review scale much, so 2/5 is much closer to a 7. And the review reads like a 7.

 

[TBiddy]

Hard to blame people when GameStop misinterpreted Phil Spencer's quote and wrote a misleading article about it. The full interview makes it absolutely clear that he was referring to the 4/10 Forza Horizon 3 review.

"Three or four… I mean somebody gave Forza Horizon 3 a four. I think there's certain reviews that are written more to get clicked on than they are to actually accurately reflect the quality of the game, and that kind of bums me out."

True and I'm not playing the "blame game" in anyway. But the OP should be updated to reflect this, I think.

Eh, 2/5 isn't really the same thing as 4/10. People don't use the bottom of a 10 point review scale much, so 2/5 is much closer to a 7. And the review reads like a 7.

Math tells me that 2/5 = 4/10.. so in that sense, it's 100% correct.

 

[AnthonypUK]

It's not really out of the blue, I just quoted the important part. Here's the full question & answer. It is sort of unrelated but it's not like he dodged the question either. It was probably the wrong time to say it, but I feel like he just got carried away and strayed away from the question at hand (Recore) and talked about in general.

I do think he meant more than FH3, and not solely that game, but I don't think he was speaking about Recore.

what? he was following on the train of thought from Recore.

"I didn't try to tell anybody that it was a ten. I think we knew, as with any games, that there are certain things… if we started from the beginning and we knew what we'd get, there's a couple of things we would've done slightly differently. But we're very proud of how the game ended up. And I think seven, eight, nine, like anywhere in there is fine. Three or four…"

this was all about recore, hes absolutely saying reviews get clicks, and in this line here is equating the 3s and 4s recore got with clickbait reviewers.

 

[rrc1594]

As some have said it's not a good look to be saying this.

 

[Yagharek]

Microsoft are experts at managing or creating a hype cycle. Their marketing for big games seemed to really kick into gear around the halo 2 build up. It's been highly effective since then.

Given the hype and marketing spend, how come we never hear them or anyone else for that matter complain about artificially inflated scores? Presumably if those reviews exist they do it for clicks too? Curious how the publishers only complain about the practice when the scores are low.

It's not honesty Phil wants. It's marketing bullet points.

Edit: so Phil was quoted out of context? Bahhhhh!

 

[Chobel]

It's not really out of the blue, I just quoted the important part. Here's the full question & answer. It is sort of unrelated but it's not like he dodged the question either. It was probably the wrong time to say it, but I feel like he just got carried away and strayed away from the question at hand (Recore) and talked about in general.

I do think he meant more than FH3, and not solely that game, but I don't think he was speaking about Recore.

No he meant recore, and brought FH3 as another example, I mean seriously read the quote.

But we're very proud of how the game ended up. And I think seven, eight, nine, like anywhere in there is fine. Three or four… I mean somebody gave Forza Horizon 3 a four. I think there's certain reviews that are written more to get clicked on than they are to actually accurately reflect the quality of the game, and that kind of bums me out.

So 7 to 9 are OK, 3-4 are not. Then he bring FH3 score and say these low scores are for hits.

Just him implying 3-4 scores are unfair is already bad enough, but he had to bring clicks because he couldn't handle criticism.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Even then he shouldn't say that shit.
As head of Xbox there's no reason to invite such scrutiny, just leave the games to speak for themselves.

Why draw attention to a couple negative reviews even if you think its harsh?

Just sit there like a good little boy and eat your veggies like everyone expects you to as they throw shit at your face.

He called out the 4/10. That score was waaay out of the standard deviation of scores. Nothing more, nothing less.

Shit, I've seen people on GAF lose their shit over a reviewer giving an Uncharted or Halo game an 8 out of 10.

Get a grip.

 

[Raylan]

Spencer was right. ReCore didn't deserve a 6 or a 5 or a 4.

A medicore game received medicore reviews. So maybe you simply like a medicore/bad game. Nothing wrong about it. I like Homefront. Doesn't mean it is actually good.

 

[JaggedSac]

Phil, a little more time in the oven would have been great for the game.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

True and I'm not playing the "blame game" in anyway. But the OP should be updated to reflect this, I think.



Math tells me that 2/5 = 4/10.. so in that sense, it's 100% correct.

He's basically saying scores of 3s and 4s for both Recore and Horizon (in an answer to a question specifically about Recore and not Horizon) were harsh and then says "certain reviews...". How do you get that that clearly is about Horizon only? Sounds more like he's referring to both.

 

[VoltySquirrel]

It sold about 7k since release in xboxes second best territory, unless the game cost 100k to make, it aint selling well.

I wasn't trying to argue that it was indeed selling well. Just maybe that it maybe isn't doing as bad as we might think.

 

[Noobcraft]

A medicore game received medicore reviews. So maybe you simply like a medicore/bad game. Nothing wrong about it. I like Homefront. Doesn't mean it is actually good.

ReCore is certainly mediocre and reviewers almost universally agreed with that. In fact technically it has some glaring issues that shouldn't have been there at release. But Forza Horizon 3 had that one outlier that was so far out with no real justification other than "it's not Dirt Rally".

 

[Garrett 2U]

Eh, 2/5 isn't really the same thing as 4/10 (not in reviews, obviously it is mathematically). People don't use the bottom of a 10 point review scale much, so 2/5 is much closer to a 7. And the review reads like a 7.

I'm kind of curious what part of that review reads like a 7 to you.

The only somewhat positive comment I could find in that article was this: "apart from the simple driving mechanics Playground already perfected years ago, it's hard to say what Forza Horizon 3 does well."

And that isn't very positive.
It felt like it hurt that reviewer to say anything mediocre about the game haha.

 

[toddhunter]

This is no doubt true.

Looking forward to him saying: "gears of war got amazing reviews, but these big sites are mostly just hyping it up for clicks and to help prop up the bloated AAA industry they feed off like blood sucking parasites. It is really just another shooter so don't get too excited."

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Edit: so Phil was quoted out of context? Bahhhhh!

No he wasn't. People are only snipping from the forza mention and on for some reason. If you read the paragraph above that, it's fairly clear he's talking about mostly Recore and is pretty much saying that 4s for either game are clickbait.

 

[OléGunner]

Just sit there like a good little boy and eat your veggies like everyone expects you to as they throw shit at your face.

Errrm what lol?
Dude I don't think you can't see the forest through the trees.

It's a review and Phil just needed to recognise it as an opinion, that's it.

Edit: you added more to your post.
Doesn't matter if one review gave a 4, why knuckle down on that?

TLoU was given a 7 (or was it 6) by Polygon in the face of Universal acclaim.
Did you see Shu going on about that in interviews? Just leave it, and get a grip yourself mate.

 

[Chobel]

Microsoft are experts at managing or creating a hype cycle. Their marketing for big games seemed to really kick into gear around the halo 2 build up. It's been highly effective since then.

Given the hype and marketing spend, how come we never hear them or anyone else for that matter complain about artificially inflated scores? Presumably if those reviews exist they do it for clicks too? Curious how the publishers only complain about the practice when the scores are low.

It's not honesty Phil wants. It's marketing bullet points.

Edit: so Phil was quoted out of context? Bahhhhh!

It was totally in context.

 

[JP]

Surely for a game that got the scores that Record got, a really high score would grab people's attention more than following what other review sties have done?

 

[TBiddy]

He's basically saying scores of 3s and 4s for both Recore and Horizon (in an answer to a question specifically about Recore and not Horizon) were harsh and then says "certain reviews...". How do you get that that clearly is about Horizon only? Sounds more like he's referring to both.

He talks about Horizon. I mean, it's right there in the quote.

 

[jelly]

Phil, a little more time in the oven would have been great for the game.

He released Halo MCC when it was ready.

 

[Izuna]

Those scores for ReCore are some bullshit though

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

He talks about Horizon. I mean, it's right there in the quote.

Yeah and you ignore like everything before that. And also the question he was asked.

He also specifically says "some reviews". Forza got a grand total of 1 review that was that low. If he was talking solely about that he would have said "that review was clickbait".

 

[benny_a]

Some reviewers also give high scores to get more clicks.

I don't think there is anything controversial here.

 

[Chobel]

He talks about Horizon. I mean, it's right there in the quote.

Are we kidding me? He's talking about both.