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Phil Spencer: Some reviewers give games low scores to get more clicks

B

BudokaiMR2

Member
Alright, so recently I try to stay out of any threads related to products that I work on for very obvious reasons. However, I sorta knew this would be about ReCore from the title.

I really don't want to sit here and post about this back and forth all night, but I really do think he has a point even if it's not conveyed well IMO. It wasn't a huge title that was getting some hundred million dollar marketing campaign, and I really do think that lack of hype train means certain reviewers are just going to nitpick and drop the score down for arbitrary reasons that would be overlooked in other cases.

I will be the first to admit that there were plenty of bugs with the game (most of which the team has already addressed and fixed) and that some design decisions such as gating content at the end will frustrate a sub-section of players.

However, I just don't understand how certain other buggy games get through with full 90-100 marks such as a certain post-apocalyptic sequel that hit this generation.

I am personally invested in this product so I know I am biased, but I never really expected so many outlets to give it 40-60 scores.
 
VincentMatts

VincentMatts

Member
RiccochetJ said:
BVEPbEn.png


https://twitter.com/yosp/status/344995962776862721
Click to expand...

Lol

He's not wrong. Just look at n4g, that site is basically all click bait. It definitely happens. If it's just another good or above average review, no one will bat an eyelash. But say the game is 6-7 in a sea of 9s, then you get clicks. This is why I generally don't care about reviews. People always have agendas
 
L

LiquidSolid

Member
Chris1 said:
The actual quote. Sounds like he's talking about that ridiculous FH3 review and others like it rather than Recore specifically.
Click to expand...

That's actually worse IMO. For ReCore you can at least argue he could be talking about any number of bad reviews the game got but for FH3, it's obvious he's specifically accusing one reviewer. It's funny when I read those sort of tinfoil hat conspiracies in the review threads on GAF, even for games I'm looking forward to, but to see this shit coming from the head of Xbox is pretty pathetic.

RiccochetJ said:
BVEPbEn.png


https://twitter.com/yosp/status/344995962776862721
Click to expand...

Really dude? Way to post a tweet completely out of context.

iQQhFSO.png


There's a pretty big difference between the two quotes.
 
GHG

GHG

Gold Member
Collingwood said:
Even if he thinks it he shouldn't say it.

But it's interesting he chose this game to say it about because the consensus on this game seems to be that the reviewers definitely got it wrong.

It's a far better game than the metacritic average suggests.
Click to expand...

Give me a break.
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
Blobbers said:
How are people possibly interpreting the "clicks" comment to only apply to the Forza review?
Click to expand...

Some really hate Raylan, others really love Phil Spencer, and the rest find weird Phil Spencer would say so they're trying to come up with another interpretation to the quote.
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
TBiddy said:
I assume we agree that he started talking about FH3 after that sentence, right?
Click to expand...

It's the same sentence, seriously read it.

"Three or four … I mean somebody gave Forza Horizon 3 a four."

He's talking about both.

Edit: I don't suppose you think it went this way, do you?

"Three or four are... Fuck it I'm not gonna this sentence but instead I'm gonna change the subject totally. We now FH3, just forgot everything I said before. "
 
B

Bits N Pieces

Member
jayu26 said:
A. Read the whole thing in context.

B. Even if you do find Shu doing this is earnest, we will condemn that too.
Click to expand...

Context is important, absolutely - but if were going to have 5 pages of posts replying to some quotes taken out of context in this interview then its fair game, right? Or does it only work one way?
 
S

Salty Rice

Member
Well Recore obviously was released too early and had some bad problems.

Phil should be silent because Recore is one of the games i can see a bad review being valid.
 
A

AusRoachman

Member
BudokaiMR2 said:
Alright, so recently I try to stay out of any threads related to products that I work on for very obvious reasons. However, I sorta knew this would be about ReCore from the title.

I really don't want to sit here and post about this back and forth all night, but I really do think he has a point even if it's not conveyed well IMO. It wasn't a huge title that was getting some hundred million dollar marketing campaign, and I really do think that lack of hype train means certain reviewers are just going to nitpick and drop the score down for arbitrary reasons that would be overlooked in other cases.

I will be the first to admit that there were plenty of bugs with the game (most of which the team has already addressed and fixed) and that some design decisions such as gating content at the end will frustrate a sub-section of players.

However, I just don't understand how certain other buggy games get through with full 90-100 marks such as a certain post-apocalyptic sequel that hit this generation.

I am personally invested in this product so I know I am biased, but I never really expected so many outlets to give it 40-60 scores.
Click to expand...

Fallout 4 is the perfect example of a buggy pos that gets 9/10s across the board , but because of its name and it's marketing push it gets given a ton of leeway. I've yet to play a buggier /shitty performing console game this gen.

I also feel games that are not full priced should be given a bit more leeway then a fully priced game (which is why no mans sky deserves all the shit it gets )

I've yet to play recore but I can't wait to try out the demo and judge it for myself .

Seems like more and more I'm having more fun with 70-85 metacritic games then I am for the big blockbusters .

I hope a sequel is announced and they can fix some of the shortcomings.
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
Bits N Pieces said:
Context is important, absolutely - but if were going to have 5 pages of posts replying to some quotes taken out of context in this interview then its fair game, right? Or does it only work one way?
Click to expand...

You should read Phil quotes. They're not taken out of context.
 
R

RulkezX

Member
BudokaiMR2 said:
Alright, so recently I try to stay out of any threads related to products that I work on for very obvious reasons. However, I sorta knew this would be about ReCore from the title.

I really don't want to sit here and post about this back and forth all night, but I really do think he has a point even if it's not conveyed well IMO. It wasn't a huge title that was getting some hundred million dollar marketing campaign, and I really do think that lack of hype train means certain reviewers are just going to nitpick and drop the score down for arbitrary reasons that would be overlooked in other cases.

I will be the first to admit that there were plenty of bugs with the game (most of which the team has already addressed and fixed) and that some design decisions such as gating content at the end will frustrate a sub-section of players.

However, I just don't understand how certain other buggy games get through with full 90-100 marks such as a certain post-apocalyptic sequel that hit this generation.

I am personally invested in this product so I know I am biased, but I never really expected so many outlets to give it 40-60 scores.
Click to expand...


It's marketing budget is irrelevant. If anything the higher profile games have between judged much more harshly this gen.

If what you say is true how come indy games consistently outscore big titles this gen ? ReCore is the type of game that would have been sold for £10 in bargain buckets at supermarkets last gen, if anything having MS pushing it probably added a few points to the meta.
 
RiccochetJ

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
DrD said:
Really dude? Way to post a tweet completely out of context.

iQQhFSO.png


There's a pretty big difference between the two quotes.
Click to expand...

Ah, ok. So in your version Yoshida was asking who he was and why he was even worth responding to first. Then after that, he made a statement.

Context.
 
J

jayu26

Member
Bits N Pieces said:
Context is important, absolutely - but if were going to have 5 pages of posts replying to some quotes taken out of context in this interview then its fair game, right? Or does it only work one way?
Click to expand...

What is taken out of context? That he is salty about MC score of Recore? Or that he is upset one reviewer gave Froza a score of 4? None of this looks good on him.

RiccochetJ said:
Ah, ok. So in your version Yoshida was asking who he was and why he was even worth responding to first. Then after that, he made a statement.

Context.
Click to expand...

Context is that they know each other, tweet to each other often and they are clearly joking around.
 
F

FinaruDensetsu

Member
TBiddy said:
I assume we agree that he started talking about FH3 after that sentence, right?
Click to expand...

You know what you're basically saying? That Phil finished his long winded answer by answering a question that wasn't even asked (because he was asked a question about the reactions to Recore).

But OK if that's your interpretation then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
L

LiquidSolid

Member
Bits N Pieces said:
Context is important, absolutely - but if were going to have 5 pages of posts replying to some quotes taken out of context in this interview then its fair game, right? Or does it only work one way?
Click to expand...

You're clutching at straws. It doesn't matter if he's talking about ReCore or FH3, it's still idiotic to accuse any reviewers of writing clickbait.
 
F

Ferr986

Member
I didn't play ReCore, well more like I don't even have an Xbox so I don't know about the game, but what Phil says about scores being done for clicks, well, it's clear that sometimes it happens with some games.

You can argue that someone in his position should say or not say that, but I agree in that it happens.
 
K

KORNdoggy

Member
you know what. i'm sure some websites do review lower for clickbait. but guess what...that's true for all games, so it doesn't forgive recore for being a mess on xbox.

when the exception becomes the rule, you can't really argue that review sites treated your game unfairly.

make a better game next time and the exception of a low click bait score will remain an exception.
 
E

EGM1966

Member
No matter idea specific to Recore but yeah of course this will happen: nature of the Internet and many of its commercial models.
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
jroc74 said:
lol

But SonyToo.
Click to expand...

After looking at the Twitter convo, Shu is obviously joking.
But to be fair, Riccochet was responding to a SonyToo comment, he didn't initiate it.

KORNdoggy said:
you know what. i'm sure some websites do review lower for clickbait. but guess what...that's true for all games, so it doesn't forgive recore for being a mess on xbox.

when the exception becomes the rule, you can't really argue that review sites treated your game unfairly.

make a better game next time and the exception of a low click bait score will remain an exception.
Click to expand...

The point is Phil is saying that it happens to all games. He isn't claiming it only happened for Recore, which is what the original title implied.
 
V

ViciousDS

Banned
Chris1 said:
The actual quote. Sounds like he's talking about that ridiculous FH3 review and others like it rather than Recore specifically.
Click to expand...


Almost everyone called out that review bullshit. I also checked it out with Adblock......that review was hot garbage. Check the review thread and you'll see it. Everyone was making fun of it. That site is basically blacklisted personally.

As for recore.......it's an average game and had scores ranging everywhere
 
C

Chris1

Member
Yager said:
But why are we talking about ReCore when Phil is NOT talking about ReCore?
Click to expand...

The original topic title said "Some reviewers gave recore low scores to get more clicks" plus the OP isn't updated with the full quote which mentions FH3.

LiquidSolid said:
That's actually worse IMO. For ReCore you can at least argue he could be talking about any number of bad reviews the game got but for FH3, it's obvious he's specifically accusing one reviewer. It's funny when I read those sort of tinfoil hat conspiracies in the review threads on GAF, even for games I'm looking forward to, but to see this shit coming from the head of Xbox is pretty pathetic.
Click to expand...

While I don't think he should have said it at all even if he thinks it, I don't think it's worse. For Recore that just makes you look salty as hell when every outlet is giving it roughly around the average you're basically saying "Your opinion is wrong even though most others agree with you and you're only doing it for clickbait". With FH3 you've got 1 4/10 and every other 9-10, you actually have a case there. Obviously context of the review is key so scores aren't everything, but yeah. Yeah you're targetting 1 reviewer with FH3 but I think you'd find it hard to find someone that'd argue that review wasn't clickbait, that's not the case for Recore.
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
TBiddy said:
I absolutely disagree with how you interpret what he says.
Click to expand...

Really? What's your interpretation? He forgot to finish the first sentence?

EDIT: Copying my previous comment, do you think it went like this "Three or four are... Fuck it I'm not gonna finish this sentence but instead I'm gonna change the subject totally. We now FH3, just forgot everything I said before. "

Yager said:
But why are we talking about ReCore when Phil is NOT talking about ReCore?
Click to expand...

Because he's actually talking about Recore?
 
A

aygomyownroad

Member
I agree with some of what he says. There are times a game is reviewing well but there is always a review which reads like it was written by a 5 year old or reads amazing but the score doesn't reflect the score.

It happens to all consoles, and that one score can reduce a 90 metacritic to a 89.
 
B

BudokaiMR2

Member
RulkezX said:
It's marketing budget is irrelevant. If anything the higher profile games have between judged much more harshly this gen.

If what you say is true how come indy games consistently outscore big titles this gen ? ReCore is the type of game that would have been sold for £10 in bargain buckets at supermarkets last gen, if anything having MS pushing it probably added a few points to the meta.
Click to expand...

If you really thinking marketing budget is irrelevant I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. I work in game publishing. Have for years. Trying to get indie games reviewed I have been immediately referred to salesmen to sell ad-space before they would even give me the time of day.
Please, just don't be naive if you aren't experienced in this industry.

Indie games are a different beast, but most of the ones you are thinking of probably did have either a huge grass roots following such as Undertale or did have a fairly big marketing budget such as is the case with stuff that is co-published like Journey or No Man's Sky.

Most indie games are lucky to even have enough reviews within the first few months to even accrue a metacritic aggregate score. Some of the best indie games out there usually aren't even reviewed by most of the top hitters in the gaming media unless they have something to the above situations.
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
GHG said:
Or they might have just not liked the game. That happens too.
Click to expand...
If you read the review, the author doesn't say one positive comment about the game.

A critique should include some positive aspects, even if the overall opinion is negative.
Just like I'd expect a positive review to acknowledge the shortcomings.
 
L

LiquidSolid

Member
RiccochetJ said:
Ah, ok. So in your version Yoshida was asking who he was and why he was even worth responding to first. Then after that, he made a statement.

Context.
Click to expand...

They were clearly joking, though I'm sure you already knew that, you were just shitting up the thread with your trolling.
 
G

gamz

Member
Agree with his exact quote, and I believe it happens with movies also.

There is a glut of critics who shouldn't be and blogs that need clicks. SHOCKING!
 
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