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[The Technomancer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXmj2yJNUmQ

In the debut episode of our series on Positive Female Characters, we celebrate the Scythian, the protagonist of Capybara Games’ 2011 release Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP

Interesting stuff. Definitely not the first choice I was expecting, but hopefully this means this series will focus on a wide breadth of games.


Mod Edit:
As usual, we'd like to encourage people to comment on the video rather than making ad hom attacks against Anita Sarkeesian. Stuff that isn't particularly relevant:
-these videos take a long time
-these videos probably cost less than $140k to make
-these videos/the Kickstarter are making/made Sarkeesian money
-these videos are only presenting Sarkeesian's side of the argument
-Sarkeesian wears makeup/earrings/whatever the fuck
-Sarkeesian turned off comments to her videos
-Sarkeesian wants to make money
-Sarkeesian is not a being of pure virtue, making videos solely to help humanity with no gain accruing to herself
-Sarkeesian likes/wants attention/death threats/whatever

We'd like to strongly recommend that if one of the above is your contribution to the thread, you either come up with something relevant to say, or not bother. Note that this list is not exhaustive. Thank you.

 

[RelentlessRolento]

I'm super happy she's now focusing on constructive points that make the medium great. I mean she always has, just now it's examples that build up rather than a dissection of problems.

 

[Figboy79]

Nice. I love Anita's videos.

I'm looking forward to more from this series. There are a lot of really good female characters in games, and I like to hear about them. I hope Jade from Beyond Good & Evil is featured in an episode.

EDIT: There's nothing wrong with her dissecting the medium in her previous series. Deconstruction and reconstruction is how these creative medium's thrive. We wouldn't have had the era of comics that we got in the mid to late 80's if Alan Moore hadn't deconstructed the superhero genre with Watchmen. It was as much a love letter to superheroes as it was a breaking them down to their bones and building them up again. Not saying Anita is pulling an Alan Moore (which can be a good thing, actually), but that her shining light on the bad of gaming can do nothing but improve the medium going forward.

I love the discussion and awareness her series is bringing to the industry. It's been a long time coming, and I'm glad it's happening finally.

 

[axisofweevils]

Interesting video. She'll probably eventually cover all the games on her STEAM curator list. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/femfreq#curation

 

[bishoptl]

I'm looking forward to an intelligent, thoughtful and civil discussion of this video in this thread.

Thanks.

 

[Amir0x]

I just want to say how much I love that Mod Edit. Made me feel warm inside ^_^

Watching the video now.

 

[WonderzL]

If anyone is interested in more examples of her ideal female characters, give this a read: Five Feminists Moments In The History Of Video Games, by Anita Sarkeesian and Caroline Petit.

 

[Figboy79]

I'm looking forward to an intelligent, thoughtful and civil discussion of this video in this thread.

Thanks.

Well, she's not criticizing the medium we all love so dearly, so I think we may be ok./s

In all seriousness, I think the debate will be fine! Don't ready the hammer yet. Have you actually named it? Mjolnir's awesome, but taken.

 

[meltingparappa]

Guess I posted in the outdated thread. Just gonna copy and paste a little...


Well that was... unceremonious, and also pretty disappointing.

It felt much more like a spoilerific review of the gamerather than anything with having to do with the character herself. And praise for a female blank slate avatar who

Spoiler

has the age-old tired hero's death ultimate end

is definitely a plus for female representation in games, but she's contrasting them with Nintendo games that are over 20 years old and lauding the game for a bare minimum job as far as a "character" is written and portrayed.

The game deserves praise for being subtle and nonchalant at having a female lead and not making a big deal about it, but this as a game to lead off this new series with? Feels so bizarre, safe, and maybe the bigger point is that she doesn't feel like she has a particularly large pool to choose from.

At least I can't see this being inflammatory at all to the typical dredge of society, simply because there's not much there to get weirdly upset about.

I just hope there's a faster turnaround on these since they're so short.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

If anyone is interested in more examples of her ideal female characters, give this a read: Five Feminists Moments In The History Of Video Games, by Anita Sarkeesian and Caroline Petit.

There is also her Steam curator's page: http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6954951-Feminist-Frequency/

Edit: which was already posted above. I glanced over it and didn't realize.

Edit 2: There was a few discussions about this video on /r/KotakuInAction (GamerGate board) and the mods decided to hide them from view. lol

 

[truly101]

I wonder what her views are on Amanda Ripley. I've not heard anyone mention her as a positive female character, but I definitely felt a strong bond with her going through that shit. Not to mention she had the knack of saying exactly what I was thinking....like the transit tunnel in ch 18. Fuck you, space subway, fuck you.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I've been anticipating this series for a long time and I'm so happy she's finally doing it.

 

[n00bsauce87]

Using her voice and position to promote video games to those who have concern of how women are portrayed in video games. I'm all for it. Might be one I pick up because of one of her vids

 

[Kiriku]

I actually had no idea the main character in that game was a woman. At least I don't remember noticing it (kind of like in the first Metroid, I guess). Perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention.

 

[Mesoian]

Using her voice and position to promote video games to those who have concern of how women are portrayed in video games. I'm all for it. Might be one I pick up because of one of her vids

You should pick it up because it's amazing. Swords and Sworcery is a god damn masterpiece.

But yeah, there is something odd about comparing the blank slate nature of the character to the same character being something that should be looked up to as interesting due to their dialogue, I don't think that works very well. The motivations behind the scythian are so vague that it often makes you wonder if she is doing the right thing. Most of the time it feels like she's doing it because people told her to do it and she's working out of some odd sense of duty rather than pride, which is interesting, but it sort strips down the nature of the whole blank slate aspect of the character. Using minimalism in the visuals doesn't somehow add or subject to the gender of the protag, it's just a stylistic choice.

But yeah, the Scythian is a pretty interesting character. I thought Anita would spend more time talking about how she's pretty negative on most of the elements revolving around the quest, for good reason. But yeah, she's cool. It's an interesting take on the heroes dilemma. The most interesting thing about her is that she doesn't carry the air of a hero, she feels like a regular person, more content to hang out with the various people she meets than actually moving on with her quest.

 

[Toa TAK]

Watching now. Excited.

 

[EightBitNate]

The main character from that game is a girl? Sorry, I can't watch the video right now but I always assumed it was a guy.

 

[Jigorath]

Nice to see Ellie in the intro. I hope she gets her own episode soon.

Watching the rest of the video now.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

Carolyn Petit (https://twitter.com/carolynmichelle) was helping Anita on the script for this. She's an ex-GameSpot writer and garnered hatred from gamers over her review of Grand Theft Auto V, which was a 9/10.

 

[SliceSabre]

Hmm, I suppose I was expecting something more in-depth about what makes her a positive female character rather than what felt sorta like a game review. I also feel part of that message is lost when well you can't even tell what the main character is unless you are told.

 

[Mesoian]

The main character from that game is a girl? Sorry, I can't watch the video right now but I always assumed it was a guy.

You did? She clearly has a woman's voice in the game.

I played this game with headphones on, so the character's gender was never in question for me.

Hmm, I suppose I was expecting something more in-depth about what makes her a positive female character rather than what felt sorta like a game review. I also feel part of that message is lost when well you can't even tell what the main character is unless you are told.

It did feel more like a game recommendation than a character analysis.

But it's one I agree with, game is excellent. OST of the year 2012.

 

[Vire]

I actually had no idea the main character in that game was a woman. At least I don't remember noticing it (kind of like in the first Metroid, I guess). Perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention.

The main character from that game is a girl? Sorry, I can't watch the video right now but I always assumed it was a guy.

Hmm, I suppose I was expecting something more in-depth about what makes her a positive female character rather than what felt sorta like a game review. I also feel part of that message is lost when well you can't even tell what the main character is unless you are told.

Seems like an odd first choice to me and I love Sword and Sworcery... but the gender of the main character in that game is largely irrelevant to the story in general.

Unless I'm missing some deeper context, (it's possible since the game is so incredibly vague), but Anita didn't really go over that in her video.

 

[Flipyap]

It felt much more like a spoilerific review of the gamerather than anything with having to do with the character herself.

If the intro to this video is anything to go by, that's what the bulk of this series is going to have to be like, because most of the characters highlighted in the montage are mostly mute, barely developed (if not blank slate) characters.
If those really were the best examples of female characters video games have to offer, it would actually make the series look like a fairly damning critique of video games.
Though I guess there really isn't much to choose from if it's going to be focused on protagonists - which would be a questionable choice, because protagonists rarely have the luxury of defined characterization, regardless of gender.

 

[Toa TAK]

Nice, but now I have to check out the game. The references to the Scythian's thoughts are charming, and the soundtrack sounds great from what I heard in the video.

It looks like a girl with the hair going down from the side of her head, but with the art design I can see why people are confused.

 

[R1CHO]

I didn't realize it was a woman, but I didn't play the game for more than 45 minutes I guess.

I don't see how that makes it an example of positive female characters. Isn't it a very neutral character?

 

[EightBitNate]

You did? She clearly has a woman's voice in the game.

I played this game with headphones on, so the character's gender was never in question for me.



It did feel more like a game recommendation than a character analysis.

But it's one I agree with, game is excellent. OST of the year 2012.

I really only screwed around with the game for a little back when I had an iPhone. I havent had the chance to go back.

 

[Kinyou]

Guess I posted in the outdated thread. Just gonna copy and paste a little...


Well that was... unceremonious, and also pretty disappointing.

It felt much more like a spoilerific review of the gamerather than anything with having to do with the character herself. And praise for a female blank slate avatar who

Spoiler

has the age-old tired hero's death ultimate end

is definitely a plus for female representation in games, but she's contrasting them with Nintendo games that are over 20 years old and lauding the game for a bare minimum job as far as a "character" is written and portrayed.

The game deserves praise for being subtle and nonchalant at having a female lead and not making a big deal about it, but this as a game to lead off this new series with? Feels so bizarre, safe, and maybe the bigger point is that she doesn't feel like she has a particularly large pool to choose from.

At least I can't see this being inflammatory at all to the typical dredge of society, simply because there's not much there to get weirdly upset about.

I just hope there's a faster turnaround on these since they're so short.

I had similar feelings. There's very little of character to draw from the Scythian through the game's minimalistic nature. So while I agree with her point that this is just a hero that happens to be female, I'm not sure if that makes her really a positive standout example. It's hard to mess up a character that barely has any character.

 

[pants]

I dont get why this is a positive female char, I mean the char is basically nothing/neutral.

 

[Mesoian]

Though I guess there really isn't much to choose from if it's going to be focused on protagonists - which would be a questionable choice, because protagonists rarely have the luxury of defined characterization, regardless of gender.

Eh, I don't know if that's true, at least not in recent gaming. Not every game has to have the blank slate aspect to them.

But yeah, if we're going strictly with player protagonists, it'll be pretty tough. You could make special shout outs to cavaits like the female protagonist in Persona 3: FES, but...it's slim pickings. It'll be particularly tough as I don't really find Jade from Mirror's Edge or Chell from Portal to be great characters so much as they are well made shells for the player to occupy.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I don't see how that makes it an example of positive female characters. Isn't it a very neutral character?

Yup, and I don't see any problem there. It's about time we realize male isn't the "default" gender. You don't need any "justification" to make your game's main character a woman.

 

[PensOwl]

I need to finally play this, didn't even realize it had a female protagonist. I wonder if Kate Walker is going to make an appearance in this series

 

[OmegaX]

I didn't realize it was a woman, but I didn't play the game for more than 45 minutes I guess.

I don't see how that makes it an example of positive female characters. Isn't it a very neutral character?

I didn't know the character was female either =/
I also disliked that game so much that I try to erase all memories I have of it. It was just so damn boring.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Starting by focusing on a more barebones game and story centered around the actions of an implied female character is prudent. I'm not enthused by the summary view of the game, but maybe she feels it's necessary to bring in more context than necessary for the purpose of steeling videos against possible loss of knowledge over time (re: the game, its place in the market amongst contemporaries, and how it adapts mythic ideas from precursors). Extending the video with more commentary on the bits of narration sprinkled throughout could have remedied this. It's not as engaging an example of a positive female character as others, but the point remains that the Scythian is effectively portrayed via minimalism. Placing this video at the forefront of the series is better in the long run than being perceived as a lackluster follow-up to videos on characters like Jade (who's up next).

 

[Vire]

I didn't know the character was female either =/
I also disliked that game so much that I try to erase all memories I have of it. It was just so damn boring.

The atmosphere and music though... Jim Guthrie's soundtrack is impeccable.

 

[Dog Problems]

Great game and a great way to start this series. Looking forward to seeing future episodes.

 

[Toa TAK]

I don't see how that makes it an example of positive female characters. Isn't it a very neutral character?

Neutral is good, though, I think. It's great that everyone doesn't immediately attach her actions to either a man or a woman, it'll help with people identifying with her.

I vaguely recall that Shepard in the Mass Effect series was largely written as gender neutral as well. To me, I really dig this approach because it doesn't belittle either sex and plays it straight as an individual with a goal.

 

[Regulus Tera]

The idea of a character becoming

Spoiler

weaker, not stronger, by the end of a game

is something I always wanted to make when I had my delusions of being a game designer. I'm glad to see that someone actually made a game like that. It would be a great concept on a traditional RPG, too, with

Spoiler

your character starting at level 99 and ending up at level 1, as a way to incentivise the player to become better at some other mechanic than just mashing the attack command

.

 

[TimorousPanda]

I had no idea that the hero was a woman. I don't think I finished it, but I made it pretty far.

 

[jett]

I don't understand, the Scythian is barely a character, it's a nothing.

 

[shandy706]

I wonder if DA:I will be in this?

I think it's the first big RPG I've played where I realized out of the 5 people in the room planning a mission strategy, 4 were female characters (including my own).

Or does it just include default/main/games without custom characters only?

 

[Vice]

I dont get why this is a positive female char, I mean the char is basically nothing/neutral.

Mostly due to how unusual it is to have a female be the default player character in a game where the character does a generic quest. People assume the hero is going to be male, so having it be a female who gets treated the way you'd expect a Link or Luke Skywalker to be treated is unusual, and welcomed, more or less.

 

[Small Mailman]

Just got Superbrothers the other day after redeeming an old Humble Bundle from 2012. I will take this thread as a sign to play it.

 

[Nerokis]

I didn't realize it was a woman, but I didn't play the game for more than 45 minutes I guess.

I don't see how that makes it an example of positive female characters. Isn't it a very neutral character?

Watch the video? It's partly how subtly her gender is presented that made her a "positive female character," according to Anita. No overtly gendered clothes, or quirks, or overemphasis on being a female, or whatever else - it just "so happens" the hero of the story is a girl.

I thought Anita's point of view was explained fairly well, so I don't get the confusion here. Sometimes it's less about the specific design or characterization, and more about the underlying assumptions the design or characterization implies.

And my god, the game looked incredible. I somehow managed to completely overlook it, but I'll definitely be picking it up.

 

[Brakke]

how you going to talk about a game about a lady and just handwave the part where it has an actual moon-phase mechanic

I don't understand, the Scythian is barely a character, it's a nothing.

That's kind of the point. She says as much in her conclusion.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

The idea of a character becoming

Spoiler

weaker, not stronger, by the end of a game

is something I always wanted to make when I had my delusions of being a game designer. I'm glad to see that someone actually made a game like that. It would be a great concept on a traditional RPG, too, with

Spoiler

your character starting at level 99 and ending up at level 1, as a way to incentivise the player to become better at some other mechanic than just mashing the attack command

.

It reminds me of how a campaign in Traveller can differ from one conducted in Dungeons & Dragons. Opportunities for growth in the former are far more limited compared to ti the latter; from this players can gather there will be way more chances to lose physical and mental faculties throughout a campaign. Making these accruing deficiencies meaningful in the context of a game is on the developer or, in the case of a role-playing system, the players and their GM.

 

[DR2K]

I dont get why this is a positive female char, I mean the char is basically nothing/neutral.

She doesn't fall under a trope. Isnt sexualized. Pronouns to subtly mention her gender. Her gender is second to her role, not the definer of her role. Anita specifically states why she is a positive female character if you actually listen to the video.

 

[Delusibeta]

Huh. That's the third character in a row (after Faith from Mirror's Edge and Chell from the Portal games) that Anita praised that I'd describe as a "blank slate" character (in that you could replace them with cats and the game wouldn't be worse off without them). I suspect a pattern is beginning to form.

 

[Mesoian]

She doesn't fall under a trope. Isnt sexualized. Pronouns to subtly mention her gender. Her gender is second to her role, not the definer of her role. Anita specifically states why she is a positive female character if you actually listen to the video.

I suppose the question people have regarding that is, "is your character positive solely because you do not put effort into making them negative?" Is the absence of bad, good?

 

[jett]

how you going to talk about a game about a lady and just handwave the part where it has an actual moon-phase mechanic



That's kind of the point. She says as much in her conclusion.

Eh. She's really overselling the game itself and the character of the Scythian. I don't think a non-character is a mark of a positive female character, or the fact that the gender is irrelevant. I guess she's a positive as Samus Aran was three decades ago.

 

[Jumplion]

I dont get why this is a positive female char, I mean the char is basically nothing/neutral.

Because we rarely see female characters in games just be neutral. Usually they're eyecandy or deliberate attempts at "strawng indepedant womayun" or characters where them being a woman is their whole point (which isn't necessarily bad, per se, but leaves something to be desired).

Like Sarkeesian mentioned in the video, and exemplified by the fact that several people in this very thread just straight up assumed that The Scythian was male, we tend to think of a character's gender as male by default. The fact that some people here are going "is this really a positive portrayal of a female character? Her gender doesn't matter!" is evident of the fact that her gender does matter to some people, and only brings to question "If her gender doesn't matter, then why do people just assume she's a he? Why Don't we see more female characters in games where the gender literally doesn't matter?"