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[EightBitNate]

I don't know if it's just me, but I don't think it's a good idea to promote such bland characters. I don't want a gaming future where characters are stripped of any personality they might have.

Ellie would have been an easy character to analyze but I kinda wish she would have picked her first.

 

[Palette Swap]

I dont get why this is a positive female char, I mean the char is basically nothing/neutral.

I thought it was explained fairly well in the video: it's more about the journey than her characterization.

The fact she goes through a very universal heroic quest is considered remarkable in itself as it shows two things:
1. These Zelda-like quests aren't gendered. They can feature a man or woman indifferently.
2. Games with a female lead can be universal, they don't have to be gendered. Particularly when a male lead is considered universal.

So yeah, this point could have been made with tons of other games but I guess she used the opportunity to review S&S.

And yes, this is absolutely self-evident and cookie cutter. But let's not pretend even this kind of inoffensive stuff doesn't have to be spelled out slowly and clearly in the current climate.

I don't know if it's just me, but I don't think it's a good idea to promote such bland characters. I don't want a gaming future where characters are stripped of any personality they might have.

Ellie would have been an easy character to analyze but I kinda wish she would have picked her first.

It's not like it will be her only video on the subject. Focusing on the quest rather than the character in one video is fine.
Plus, people were asking for Alyx. Whenever someone mentions Alyx's personality, I always assume they mean her ass TBH.

 

[Messofanego]

That's a great choice of game. A lot of similar points are shared by Never Alone too(although in that it's obvious she's a girl) and it was nice to see that game in the intro. Never Alone was going to have a male protagonist at first, since the native Alaskan folktake is about a boy.

Goes against expectations that people thought she wouldn't pick a game with a hero story. Journey is a universal experience too, with a similar

Spoiler

ending

.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I dont get why this is a positive female char, I mean the char is basically nothing/neutral.

Anita explains "why" very clearly in the video. How about you watch it? It's only 7 min long.

 

[Mesoian]

That's a great choice of game. A lot of similar points are shared by Never Alone too(although in that it's obvious she's a girl) and it was nice to see that game in the intro. Never Alone was going to have a male protagonist at first, since the native Alaskan folktake is about a boy.

Goes against expectations that people thought she wouldn't pick a game with a hero story. Journey is a universal experience too, with a similar

Spoiler

ending

.

For whatever reason, I assumed that everyone in Journey was female.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I don't know if it's just me, but I don't think it's a good idea to promote such bland characters. I don't want a gaming future where characters are stripped of any personality they might have.

And heeeeere we go again.

So now she's pushing for "gaming future where characters are stripped of any personality they might have"? And silent protagonists are terrible all of a sudden because she praised the fact that this one is a woman?

I thought threads for this new series would have been a bit better since all Sarkeesian threads were full of "she should talk about positive examples instead", but now the goalpost moved once again. Ugh.

 

[Salvatron]

When archetypal fantasy heroes in games are overwhelmingly portrayed as men, it reinforces the idea that men’s experiences are universal and that women’s experiences are gendered, that women should be able to empathize with male characters but that men needn’t be able to identify with women’s stories. Sword & Sworcery gives us a female protagonist and encourages us to see her as a hero first and foremost, one who also just happens to be a woman.

Definitely agree with that last line. I wouldn't make such a broad leap in her first point though. Yes, there are more male protagonists than female, but I don't believe that it's reinforces what she's claiming it does. I can empathize with a character regardless of their gender; it's more about their character and quality of storytelling that pulls me in on an emotional level.

Most games just plain don't offer a female perspective or gender option, which is a shame. On the flipside though, I don't find myself identifying with every male protagonist I play just because they might be male, it's the mechanics and/or storytelling that pique my interest. Case in point, Rico Rodriguez from JC2; I don't even remember him very well. He was more just a vehicle for 'Chaos' and extreme stunts than any kind of gender representation. He could have been a genderless robot and I don't think it would have lessened my enjoyment of the game.

Anyhow, always good to have different voices out there. Secretly hoping she does one on Gravity Rush. Would love to see her perspective on Kat, my favorite video game heroine of all time.

Pls excuse my poor rambling grammar.

 

[TharpDaddy]

For whatever reason, I assumed that everyone in Journey was female.

I always saw them as genderless. Just creatures, not a male or female.

 

[pants]

Anita explains "why" very clearly in the video. How about you watch it? It's only 7 min long.

 

[The Technomancer]

Huh. That's the third character in a row (after Faith from Mirror's Edge and Chell from the Portal games) that Anita praised that I'd describe as a "blank slate" character (in that you could replace them with cats and the game wouldn't be worse off without them). I suspect a pattern is beginning to form.

Given Anita's past work I don't find it surprising that there aren't many "defined" female characters that stand out as good to her. A lot of stabs at female characters try to make them better by making them more symbolically masculine. I was actually thinking about this earlier today:

There seem to be two major...paths of feminist media criticism. They aren't exclusionary, or even contradictory, but do emphasize different things. One path is interested in the redefinition of traditionally female iconography, i.e losing pink as a "girls" signifier, or re-defining more masculine affectations, i.e physical strength and emotional gruffness, violent problem solving, etc as, if not explicitly feminine, more gender neutral than they currently are.

The other path is interested in the reevaluation of traditional female iconography, i.e embracing pink as a "feminine color" or, as Anita has touched on in quite a bit of her work, changing the valuation of traditionally iconically feminine roles, attitudes and behaviors in media.

Most criticism, hers included, draws from both ways of thinking, but I think she definitely skews towards the latter and is more critical of attempts at the former

 

[Saikyo]

Nice way of starting the series of "positive female vg characters", I also didnt knew the character was a woman.

Liked that she started with this game, its on mobile and pc, so a lot of people can check the game. Still I dont like this type of 2D in this game.

Hope she talk about some Fighting Games characters like Elisabeth or May Lee from KOF, Kojiro from The Last Blade 2, Millia from Guilty Gear (she is never a "damsel in distress", has her own objectives, the only version with fan service was in "GG1"...).

 

[Mesoian]

I don't know if it's just me, but I don't think it's a good idea to promote such bland characters. I don't want a gaming future where characters are stripped of any personality they might have.

Ellie would have been an easy character to analyze but I kinda wish she would have picked her first.

The Scythian has plenty of character, so much so that for a good solid month after the game was first released, my twitter feed was awash with almost every line of hers from the game's imbedded retweet feature. The Scythian is far from a boring character.

Her gender simply doesn't figure into the story very much. Or at all. And that's okay in a very, the absence of bad is good, sort of mindset.

 

[JDSN]

Just as usually with Anita threads, you can tell who is watching the video and who is just responding random stuff. For me The Scythian is a bit of bland choice but it gives the opportunity for Anita to talk about how a female character being "normal" is a positive unique thing.

She even explained how Samus is a fundamentally different thing, but like I said, people are not watching the video.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I didn't even know that was a female character! Then again I never got very far into it.
Might have to give the game another go on Steam.

 

[golduck342]

I kept going past the spoiler warning, now I wish I hadn't as that is actually a pretty cool ending

 

[Morrigan Stark]

And heeeeere we go again.

So now she's pushing for "gaming future where characters are stripped of any personality they might have"? And silent protagonists are terrible all of a sudden because she praised the fact that this one is a woman?

I thought threads for this new series would have been a bit better since all Sarkeesian threads were full of "she should talk about positive examples instead", but now the goalpost moved once again. Ugh.

Yup. You know how we've heard "some people just go out of their way to be offended" sometimes? Well, to that I say, some people just go out of their way to bash whatever it is Anita does.

Great response. Very clever.

 

[Orayn]

The Scythian has plenty of character, so much so that for a good solid month after the game was first released, my twitter feed was awash with almost every line of hers from the game's imbedded retweet feature. The Scythian is far from a boring character.

Her gender simply doesn't figure into the story very much. Or at all. And that's okay in a very, the absence of bad is good, sort of mindset.

That's the unfortunate state of things, really. You can make a better-than-average female character simply by doing a decent job and avoiding some negative tropes and stereotypes.

 

[XceptioN]

I've seen most of her videos, and it may just be the type of mood I am in but man was that video boring. She is so clearly not enthused with what she is talking about most of the video and she rarely shows any hint of emotion. I've seen some of her speeches online and this is no where near what she is capable of. I wonder why it ended up like this.

I was excited for this because it was finally something positively constructive in her video series, but man that video was a dud. Not a good start to this series. Starting off with a mildly neutral character in a somewhat slow and dry game was probably not the best idea. What she talks about is interesting but it couldn't hold my attention for more than 30 seconds at a time. The editing could have been a bit better paced to make up for that.

I can't help but think some of her work might just be better as written essays after watching this.

 

[Mesoian]

I always saw them as genderless. Just creatures, not a male or female.

Yeah, that's valid.

For some reason, I saw the entire game as a maternity/sisterhood. Don't ask me why, that's just how my brain works.

 

[Flipyap]

Eh, I don't know if that's true, at least not in recent gaming. Not every game has to have the blank slate aspect to them.

I know and I do agree, but it's still a rarity. In general, protagonists are designed to be non-disagreeable entities.
Once in a while an exception to that rule will arrive and be generally accepted (like in the case of The Last Of Us), but usually it ends up with the audience rejecting characters they don't immediately agree with, which makes the very idea of a simple redemptive character arc to be a risky proposition, now matter how slight that arc is (in case of Alan Wake and Altair it was simply "becoming less of a mouthy jerk").

 

[pants]

Mostly due to how unusual it is to have a female be the default player character in a game where the character does a generic quest. People assume the hero is going to be male, so having it be a female who gets treated the way you'd expect a Link or Luke Skywalker to be treated is unusual, and welcomed, more or less.

Let me rephrase, I understand her argument, but I disagree that the low bar of 'at least they didn't fuck her up by using tropes' is the bar we want to set for positive female chars. While i recognize, technically this is a positive char since everything upwards from the poo that exists today is a plus, there has to be more to it surely. Removing traces of femininity isn't my idea of a positive female char.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm curious to see which highly developed characters she actually finds to be positive, since I think the "but they're mostly a blank slate" argument is fair for the Scythian and Chell.

Faith is a bit more developed as a character, but it's still a pretty barebones plot.

 

[SliceSabre]

And heeeeere we go again.

So now she's pushing for "gaming future where characters are stripped of any personality they might have"? And silent protagonists are terrible all of a sudden because she praised the fact that this one is a woman?

I thought threads for this new series would have been a bit better since all Sarkeesian threads were full of "she should talk about positive examples instead", but now the goalpost moved once again. Ugh.

Chill. People have had issues with silent protags of any gender for quite some time.

 

[Salvatron]

And heeeeere we go again.

So now she's pushing for "gaming future where characters are stripped of any personality they might have"? And silent protagonists are terrible all of a sudden because she praised the fact that this one is a woman?

I thought threads for this new series would have been a bit better since all Sarkeesian threads were full of "she should talk about positive examples instead", but now the goalpost moved once again. Ugh.

I agree. Also, having gender not play a role in the character/story or having gender/race be a cosmetic-only choice doesn't make my character 'bland', the mechanics and/or narrative play a much stronger role in determining that. (see Bloodborne)

 

[Mesoian]

Let me rephrase, I understand her argument, but I disagree that the low bar of 'at least they didn't fuck her up by using tropes' is the bar we want to set for positive female chars. While i recognize, technically this is a positive char since everything upwards from the poo that exists today is a plus, there has to be more to it surely.

I think that's a grander concept than what these videos plan to cover.

It's where the idea of the "man with boobs" and "women as men" videos are going to have to try to flesh out.

 

[EightBitNate]

And heeeeere we go again.

So now she's pushing for "gaming future where characters are stripped of any personality they might have"? And silent protagonists are terrible all of a sudden because she praised the fact that this one is a woman?

I thought threads for this new series would have been a bit better since all Sarkeesian threads were full of "she should talk about positive examples instead", but now the goalpost moved once again. Ugh.

Like I said, I've never played the game. I'm not speaking from the most educated view point. But it doesnt look like the character should be a role model for anything.

 

[Palette Swap]

I'm curious to see which highly developed characters she actually finds to be positive, since I think the "but they're mostly a blank slate" argument is fair for the Scythian and Chell.

Faith is a bit more developed as a character, but it's still a pretty barebones plot.

The women from TLoU could work.
If it finishes in a timely manner and keeps up its quality, Life is Strange could also work I guess.

 

[Mesoian]

Like I said, I've never played the game. I'm not speaking from the most educated view point. But it doesnt look like the character should be a role model for anything.

You should play the game. Regardless of her gender, the Scythian is a pretty cool character.

 

[EightBitNate]

You should play the game. Regardless of her gender, the Scythian is a pretty cool character.

Maybe I should. I got through the first areas a few years ago and never returned. Kinda bored me but the art and music were nice.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Like I said, I've never played the game. I'm not speaking from the most educated view point. But it doesnt look like the character should be a role model for anything.

Who said she's a "role model"?

 

[cutmeamango]

This can say a lot when male hollow avatars (dubbed as generic heroes) are by far the most criticized character construction, and it's worth investigating. By the video it's not an internal problem but an external (frequency) one.

 

[uomoartificiale]

I have here the same problem I always had with Anita. I disagree with something every sentence she utters. I get where she's headed and generally sympathize with her effort to present a compelling alternative view for her viewers.
This stance may seems somewhat problematic, because I'll steer away from criticizing her because a) I don't want to be misunderstood, b) I'm convinced that right now she needs all the support she can get. I support her end goals and endorse her, even if I silently disagree with most the arguments she presents (while generally agreeing with her final argumentative goals).
But, again, I have to confess that even in my brief time in the academia I always found these kind of sociological analyses quite vapid. They never convinced me of nothing I wasn't already convinced of, a sentiment I experienced especially when I realized that I was already agreeing with the speaker in the first place.

 

[EightBitNate]

Who said she's a "role model"?

By stating that she's a positive female character, I assume Anita means that we should look to the character for good design choices.

 

[Vire]

Yeah, that's valid.

For some reason, I saw the entire game as a maternity/sisterhood. Don't ask me why, that's just how my brain works.

The design of the characters in Journey are not all that different from that of a Nun, so I could see how you could make that connection to maternity/sisterhood.

 

[pants]

I'm curious to see which highly developed characters she actually finds to be positive, since I think the "but they're mostly a blank slate" argument is fair for the Scythian and Chell.

Faith is a bit more developed as a character, but it's still a pretty barebones plot.

Would like to hear what she has to say about Aurora from child of light and Bayonetta, I think both are positive in very different ways.

 

[liliththepale]

It's important to me that some blank slate characters are female because there are a lot of blank slate characters in games and there's no reason many of them can't be female. That says the default isn't male, which is an important message.

 

[AdmiralMikey]

Looking forward to going home and watching this tonight. I wasn't a big fan of what I played of Sword and Sworcery, but I hope I can learn something!

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It's important to me that some blank slate characters are female because there are a lot of blank slate characters in games and there's no reason many of them can't be female. That says the default isn't male, which is an important message.

Yup.

I'm curious to see which highly developed characters she actually finds to be positive, since I think the "but they're mostly a blank slate" argument is fair for the Scythian and Chell.

Faith is a bit more developed as a character, but it's still a pretty barebones plot.

I'm guessing Jade and Ellie, she seems fond of them.

 

[Kinyou]

I agree. Also, having gender not play a role in the character/story or having gender/race be a cosmetic-only choice doesn't make my character 'bland', the mechanics and/or narrative play a much stronger role in determining that. (see Bloodborne)

The Scythian can be considered bland for more reasons than that. There's barely any narrative to her. It's all very minimalistic.

 

[Dice//]

Yup, and I don't see any problem there. It's about time we realize male isn't the "default" gender. You don't need any "justification" to make your game's main character a woman.

Thank you! Well said

 

[sensui-tomo]

Yup, and I don't see any problem there. It's about time we realize male isn't the "default" gender. You don't need any "justification" to make your game's main character a woman.

I wish more people had this shared thought process, just change woman to X(meaning anything) especially in the FF15 thread.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I don't see how "blank slate" characters can't be good, aren't they some of the most common winners of GameFAQ character polls?

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Huh. That's the third character in a row (after Faith from Mirror's Edge and Chell from the Portal games) that Anita praised that I'd describe as a "blank slate" character (in that you could replace them with cats and the game wouldn't be worse off without them). I suspect a pattern is beginning to form.

Is Faith really that much of a blank slate character, at least in comparison to the other two?

I don't see how "blank slate" characters can't be good, aren't they some of the most common winners of GameFAQ character polls?

Launchpad isn't a blank slate character how dare you

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Anita's hair looks

Spoiler

very nice.

I'm glad she's doing this though, in all these threads on GAF about "Good representation on female characters" I see A LOT of people just posting characters they like. I've never seen any mention of this particular character or game ever. So Jade from BG&E is next? Good to see she's showing a preview of what to expect later on.

 

[Salvatron]

The Scythian can be considered bland for more reasons than that. There's barely any narrative to her. It's all very minimalistic.

Yeah, I agree with you on that. I actually didn't even finish the game because of how minimal it was. While the art/music was ok, it didn't keep me invested.

 

[Raist]

That's a bizarre first pick.

I guess it's more "look, a female character that isn't x, y and z (being negative points)" than an actual positive example. Might as well be a man, a 9 foot tall rabbit or a blob, it wouldn't change much.

There's a bit of "guilt by association" here, because she's commending the quality of the game (little fighting, emotional, puzzle-based), and then kinda links that to the protagonist being female. There are hundreds of games like this, irrespective of the main character's gender though.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

That's a bizarre first pick.

I guess it's more "look, a female character that isn't x, y and z (being negative points)" than an actual positive example. Might as well be a man, a 9 foot tall rabbit or a blob, it wouldn't change much.

Yes, it might as well be a man, and in almost any other game, it would be a man. I don't see how using a female character without the need to "justify" it is not a positive.

There's a bit of "guilt by association" here, because she's commending the quality of the game (little fighting, emotional, puzzle-based), and then kinda links that to the protagonist being female. There are hundreds of games like this, irrespective of the main character's gender though.

What? "Kinda"? Do you have any quote or a timeframe, because I must have missed that part...

Oh, and general comment: Please, please, please, before complaining that the character doesn't have typically feminine traits, at least watch the video.

 

[DR2K]

I suppose the question people have regarding that is, "is your character positive solely because you do not put effort into making them negative?" Is the absence of bad, good?

The absence of blatant stereotypes in a medium full of them is a great thing.

 

[Dog Problems]

The absence of blatant stereotypes in a medium full of them is a great thing.

Yep. I welcome more "bland" characters on both sides if it means getting away from those tired stereotypes.

 

[HeelPower]

Chel from portal in the opening and The scythian character.

Not sure how there is anything impressive about these female portrayals.They could just as well be male and it wouldn't make a difference.

Maybe that's what she considers a good portrayal ?